Sequels If they used The Green Goblin in the sequels, he should look like this....

[Thebumwhowalks]

...once again... a few pages back, a mask was posted that had surprising mobility and functionality, and was available for only a few hundred dollars. If any old schlub could scrape together some cash for one that good, I'm sure it's not out of the realm of possibility for a multi-million dollar film franchise to commission an even better realization of the same concept. Masks aren't out, not by a long shot.

Yeah, I just looked back and saw it, I did see it before the other week when it was first posted. But, all that has been posted is what looks like an illustration of the mask, there is no way to tell how good that would be, and I suspect it would be no different to all the other types of masks I have seen posted over the years.
no matter how good it looks though, it would not have the texture and mobility that good sfx make up on the human face has. But i would like to be proved wrong with some footage of it in action.

 

[Spider-Who?]

If you had been paying attention to my points, instead of belittling them with rubbish jokes, maybe you would have understood them in the first place, no offence. because if you did you would not have posted those examples.
All of the examples you have posted would only be suitable for a Norman Osborn who physically transformed into a Goblin, that is why I have been arguing for that direction. None of those make up designs would be suitable for a 'guy in a mask', as A. They don't look like a guy in a mask.
and B. at some point, we are going to have to see the Goblin take his mask off, esp given his story, unmasking in front of Peter, a pivotal moment.
Regardkess, you can't have some hokey Mission impossible/Charlie's angels momenst where the guy looks one way, and then flips off a 'rubber mask', and looks completely different, that stuff looks daft, it would be like 'Naked Gun/Police Squad'.

You and I are just going to disagree then. Considering 99% of movie making is about lying to the audience, I don't have ANY issue with them telling us its a mask, and then using prosthetics. And in a movie where guys have the powers of spiders and men turn into lizards, having someone wearing a "realistic looking mask" is the absolutely EASIEST thing to suspend disbelief on (especially considering the mask Pumpkin Bomb is talking about).

Posting the pictures was not meant to show what i want the mask to look like. It was solely meant to show how anything is possible. You're completely ignoring the fact that Osborn can wear a mask in the movie, but they can use prothestics to allow for movement and expressions but still (get this....) make it look like he's wearing a real mask. Because if they can make such realistic faces without hindering the actors like the images I posted, then they sure as hell can give us a Goblin that looks like he's wearing a mask, but is not restricted in his expressions and acting. Its called having your cake and eating it to, something which is totally feasible here.

I think you are just trying to justify the awful, awful, awful idea of having him transform by ignoring the facts. I know it sucks. Everyone else here knows it sucks. You can want it that way all you want, but no amount of placating the movie gods will change the fact that a masked Goblin CAN BE DONE.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

You and I are just going to disagree then.


[....]

I think you are just trying to justify the awful, awful, awful idea of having him transform by ignoring the facts. I know it sucks. Everyone else here knows it sucks. You can want it that way all you want, but no amount of placating the movie gods will change the fact that a masked Goblin CAN BE DONE.

so what is it then? We disagree on some points, or i am just 'ignoring the facts?'
What, pray tell are these facts i am ignoring? Because you seem to be ignoring the fact that it looks bloody stupid on film to have someone whip off a dummy rubber mask and go from looking like one person to another, when we all know it looks fake as hell, as i said it's Police Squad territory. It looks stupid enough in Mission Impossible/Charlies angels, when it's just a human face that we are supposed to believe has been ripped off, but a Goblin face make up, like those examples you posted? It would look absurd.
There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is having something onscreen that just looks stupid as a sfx moment. And a guy whipping off a rubber mask, pretending that intricate make up and prosthetics is a rubber mask, is one of those things that would just look awful, and it's why we have not seen it happen in any decent film yet.
You can't use 'movie magic/suspension of disbelief' as an excuse for bad ideas/execution. That's why i used the example of Police Squad, it would look *that* silly.

*and* I have seen no good reason why facial transformation is an awful idea if done tastefully. there's not been one convincing argument yet for that.
Because let's be honest here...it's not some major character thing that the Goblin mask/outfit was created for, it's to make him look visually interesting first and formost, and if you lose that visual impact, who gives a s*** if he wants to dress up as a Goblin cause he is crazy? That facet of his character is not important if the Goblin look is not a great visual.
but still, you can keep some of that aspect the way i illustrated the way i would use the transformation process. He gets the idea from the first trnansformation, but then keeps chossing to od on the serum to gain the look.


In the way I illustrated how i would do it on film, he still *chooses* to re-dose with the formula to re-gain a Goblin facial deformity, even though he goes about with superpowers all the time and could go out as a guy with a rubber mask if he wanted. In fact, if you want your Goblin crazy, that makes him even more crazier, he likes to give himself facial deformity as opposed to wearing a mask to look like a Goblin. the only thing you lose is the fact he randomly chooses a Goblin persona, and that is not much loss of character at all.

The only semi-reasonable argument I have seen against this approach is from Alchymest, and all he was saying was 'it is too similar to do it after we have just got the Lizard in a movie, but they could do it in another re-boot years from now.'

and i don't think , the way i would do it, would be that similar to the Lizard.

anyway, they won't do it that way I am imagining, but I still think it's a sound conecpt that keeps the Goblin character intact with *no* philosophical changes behind the character's persona.

 

[Spider-Who?]

so what is it then? We disagree on some points, or i am just 'ignoring the facts?'
What, pray tell are these facts i am ignoring? Because you seem to be ignoring the fact that it looks bloody stupid on film to have someone whip off a dummy rubber mask and go from looking like one person to another, when we all know it looks fake as hell, as i said it's Police Squad territory. It looks stupid enough in Mission Impossible/Charlies angels, when it's just a human face that we are supposed to believe has been ripped off, but a Goblin face make up, like those examples you posted? It would look absurd.

I like how you say I'm ignoring your points, when you have quite obviously ignored the most important parts of my post. Since I don't feel like explaining myself yet again, I'll just copy and paste what I said, in hopes you'll actually read and comprehend them:

Posting the pictures was not meant to show what i want the mask to look like. It was solely meant to show how anything is possible.

Osborn can wear a mask in the movie, but they can use prothestics to allow for movement and expressions but still (get this....) make it look like he's wearing a real mask.

Because if they can make such realistic faces without hindering the actors like the images I posted, then they sure as hell can give us a Goblin that looks like he's wearing a mask, but is not restricted in his expressions and acting.

I don't want him to look like a "real goblin". Again, those pictures were not meant to show that. They were solely meant to show:

1) Make up FX is sophisticated enough to allow unhindered facial expression.
2) If they can make ultra-realistic monster faces while keeping the above statement true, then they can definitely make an actual MASK for the Gobby.

You can't use 'movie magic/suspension of disbelief' as an excuse for bad ideas/execution. That's why i used the example of Police Squad, it would look *that* silly.

I agree that good ideas and execution are paramount. But just because other movies have done it poorly doesn't mean it can't be done well. And really, you're using a short lived 1980s Leslie Neelson tv show to prove your point that a present day multi-million dollar blockbuster production can't do something well? That's the epitome of "grasping at straws".

In the way I illustrated how i would do it on film, he still *chooses* to re-dose with the formula to re-gain a Goblin facial deformity, even though he goes about with superpowers all the time and could go out as a guy with a rubber mask if he wanted, just the same as putting on a mask.

Well, I'm glad you're not making the movies then. t:

The only semi-reasonable argument I have seen against this approach is from Alchymest, and all he was saying was 'it is too similar to do it after we have just got the Lizard in a movie, but they could do it in another re-boot years from now.

and i don't think , the way i would do it, would be that similar to the Lizard.

anyway, they won't do it that way I am imagining, but I still think it's a sound conecpt that keeps the Goblin character intact with *no* philosophical changes behind the character's persona.

I'll concede that I would rather have your idea than another Goblin from SM1. But I still believe that a great and more faithful Goblin can be done without straying from the source material.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I'm going to answer the most, and only, pertinant point we have between us....

I don't want him to look like a "real goblin". Again, those pictures were not meant to show that. They were solely meant to show:

1) Make up FX is sophisticated enough to allow unhindered facial expression.
2) If they can make ultra-realistic monster faces while keeping the above statement true, then they can definitely make an actual MASK for the Gobby.

Well, if you don't want him looking like 'a real Goblin', then you don't want him looking like the 616 comics version, the only diff in the AR illustration is you can see NO's normal eyes in that, and it does lose some impact of the original.

and as to your other point...no, there are no mask materials out there that are as good as make up and prosthetics. You say there are, but there just...isn't , lol. The face muscles are just too covered up, at least with make up you have keep the tender, subtle texture and moevement of human skin and muscle.

 

[Spider-Who?]

The problem is, you're thinking of make up special effects as nothing but paint smeared on an actor's face. As I've mentioned before, several times in fact, through the use of prosthetics and make up (which is under the umbrella of "make up special effects; and the make up in these types of instances are only used to accentuate the prosthetics and smooth any seams) they can achieve a look that appears to be a very well constructed mask that moves with the actor. This is not science fiction. It exists, as has been shown in this thread and countless other movies. Hell, you can buy this type of stuff at Rite Aid on Halloween.

 

[Alchemyst]

The problem is, you're thinking of make up special effects as nothing but paint smeared on an actor's face. As I've mentioned before, several times in fact, through the use of prosthetics and make up (which is under the umbrella of "make up special effects; and the make up in these types of instances are only used to accentuate the prosthetics and smooth any seams) they can achieve a look that appears to be a very well constructed mask that moves with the actor. This is not science fiction. It exists, as has been shown in this thread and countless other movies. Hell, you can buy this type of stuff at Rite Aid on Halloween.

And the pics you posted show exactly how they could pull of the Goblin. There are ways they can go about it to give off the effect that it IS a mask. Also if they went the route of using cgi to touch up areas of the mask, they could make the 616 version of the Goblin look even more menacing so it won't come across as looking somewhat comical. When it comes to stuff like that, I don't put anything past costume designers, they can make just about anything happen

 

[Spider-Who?]

And the pics you posted show exactly how they could pull of the Goblin. There are ways they can go about it to give off the effect that it IS a mask. Also if they went the route of using cgi to touch up areas of the mask, they could make the 616 version of the Goblin look even more menacing so it won't come across as looking somewhat comical. When it comes to stuff like that, I don't put anything past costume designers, they can make just about anything happen

Exactly.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Don't worry Timmy, Bushman won't bite you now

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

And the pics you posted show exactly how they could pull of the Goblin. There are ways they can go about it to give off the effect that it IS a mask. Also if they went the route of using cgi to touch up areas of the mask, they could make the 616 version of the Goblin look even more menacing so it won't come across as looking somewhat comical. When it comes to stuff like that, I don't put anything past costume designers, they can make just about anything happen

Yeah, i still can't see how that would work at all.

and spider-Who? Of course I was taking into consideration the fact of some prosthetics, but my main point in that last post was that within that framework you leave some room for the facial muscles to be used with applied make-up too. Or else what is the point? You want to see the full workings of the facial muscles as opposed to a mask obscuring them.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Don't worry Timmy, Bushman won't bite you now

 

[Ajendo]

Don't worry Timmy, Bushman won't bite you now

This is the sort of stuff I want to see in a spidey film. The lizard kidnapping and tormenting quivering wives, teenaged girls in ****ty cheer leader outfits, little snot-nosed brats, all on the verge of having their heads ripped off and to have their frightened flesh feasted on. I want to see the fear in their eyes!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

^^This suddenly made me wonder about the army of Lizards, will they be lizard men? Or have lizard mentality but their human forms remain?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^This suddenly made me wonder about the army of Lizards, will they be lizard men? Or have lizard mentality but their human forms remain?

Well, didn't that description exlpain that the Swat members had makeup on and such?

 

[Pumpkin_Bomb]

Yeah, the rumour revolves around the idea of them going through hours of makeup.

 

[NinjaCarm]

I don't know what's going on in this thread anymore but

JUST GIVE US A REAL SCARY A$$ HI TECH / LOW TECH FLYING ON A GLIDER GREEN GOBLIN WEARING A FACE TIGHT REMOVABLE MISSION IMPOSSIBLE TYPE MASK PLEEAAAASSEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! IF THEY CAN MAKE HUNDREDS OF OTHER SCI FI MOVIES I THINK SPIDER-MAN'S GREATEST ENEMIES DESERVES TO BE PROPERLY PORTRAYED ON SCREEN WITHOUT US THINKING "OH THAT'S NOT REAL" B/S!!!!!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

HI TECH

Hi, LOL

 

[Hurm...]

That is more of an eyestrain to the producers possibly reading this thread than if you wrote normally lol.

 

[Sentinel X]

HEY!! OMG!1! Please Read this post!!!!

thank-you

 

[The Slang]

Yeah, I just looked back and saw it, I did see it before the other week when it was first posted. But, all that has been posted is what looks like an illustration of the mask, there is no way to tell how good that would be, and I suspect it would be no different to all the other types of masks I have seen posted over the years.
no matter how good it looks though, it would not have the texture and mobility that good sfx make up on the human face has. But i would like to be proved wrong with some footage of it in action.

Dude, you clearly weren't paying enough attention. It was NOT an 'illustration of the mask' it was an actual real PHOTO. And not far from the photo was a link to a youtube video which DOES show the mask in action. Go to youtube and type 'imp mask', you'll see that the mouth moves when the guy speaks, and there's even some subtle cheek and eyebrow movement when the guy smiles/frowns.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

That is more of an eyestrain to the producers possibly reading this thread than if you wrote normally lol.

 

[Ajendo]

Seiously, the way the red skull looks, should we get goblin, there's no excuse for another massive c0ck-up with the mask.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The Skull mask looks decent, they mainly need to make it darker to look more red, more blood like in color
Mystique was translated well on screen, the Goblin should be given the chance

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Dude, you clearly weren't paying enough attention. It was NOT an 'illustration of the mask' it was an actual real PHOTO. And not far from the photo was a link to a youtube video which DOES show the mask in action. Go to youtube and type 'imp mask', you'll see that the mouth moves when the guy speaks, and there's even some subtle cheek and eyebrow movement when the guy smiles/frowns.

You mean the link was in another post? Well, you can hardly blame me for missing that, I was in the middle of a discussion several pages away, once i saw that post with the mask image I assumed that was all you had on it. Because you also said in that post to look up the mask on a mask site if you wanted to see it in action, I paid attention to *that* post, and read it in full.
The thing is, i have an old computer and it messes up when i try to look up certain sites and vids, it goes into overload and i have to shut it down. I can't access youtube because of this, about the only thing i can do is look at videos that have been embedded on this site.

 

[The Slang]

Yeah that's cool. I just thought if you checked it out properly you might be surprised with how impressive it looks. When I first saw the imp mask years back I immediately thought Green Goblin, but those cfx guys have made lots of others that you can see on youtube which seem to emote more.