If We Were Writing Watchmen

[Spider - Man]

Ok, fess up time: I've been collecting comics since about '74 or so. Marvel and DC but mostly Marvel. I stopped collecting around the early 80s and so was not really around when Wolverine and Punisher became really popular. I was also not around when the Watchmen came out. I started collecting again around '93. I heard about the Watchmen but never read the comics. I heard how it deconstructed superheroes and was probably the greatest comic ever.
Knowing they were going to make a Watchmen movie, I finally bought the book and read it a couple of months ago.
Now, for those diehard Watchmen fans out there, don't stone me! Maybe it was because I didn't read it at the righttime (when it first came out) or what, but I didn't think there was anything especially great about it. I didn't think it was bad. I just have no desire to go back and read it again. But I keep reading all about how it can never be translated, and how it's the holy grail of comic book films.
So here's the question:
A lot of the controversy seems to be about how it can't be done because you couldn't get all the material into a single film. So...what would be permissable, by the real Watchmen fans, to cut out?

 

[Savage]

I think they can cut out Nite-owl's whole deal with the original Nite-Owl but only because that's the LEAST important part of the story in the grand scheme of things....I honestly don't know. This is why this subject is so touchy. Everything is so intertwined with each other and it is done so well that asking to cut something out (and they would or the movie would be about 5 or 6 hours long) is like choosing between an arm or a leg.

...I'm quite positive that no matter what they do with this movie, I will be pessimistic towards it because of that fact. Cut out doctor manhattan's origin or the whole thing with the media or the Comedian's history or Silk Spectre's history...It's all just so important to the story...If anything The Watchmen would be done better as a tv mini-series than a movie...They're probably going to end up making up a different plot altogether that just happens to involve these characters.

 

[Spider - Man]

How about "Under the Hood"? Could that be eliminated? How about the stuff with the news vendor and the story about the castaway? I don't recall that being pertinent to the story(?) Maybe I'm wrong? These are the sort of things I was talking about.
Maybe in addition to figuring what could be cut out, some of the Watchmen pros on here could tell me what they consider absolutely essential to leave in a film version.

 

[Savage]

You're right. Things like the news vendor, the kid that read comics, that whole pirate story, the lesbians, they weren't essential and probably will be cut. Hell, I even think the psychiatrist's relationship with his wife will be cut from the movie as well...Other than those (and maybe those guys at the newspaper company) I can't think of anything (involving the main characters) that should be cut. I thought about the whole thing with Manhattan dropping his old girlfriend for the younger one being cut but then realized how important that is to the character and his innability to feel or connect with people.

Alan Moore said it best; The best way to do a Watchmen movie is not to do it at all.

I'd honestly much rather see it as a mini series on HBO. This especially makes sense since each issue/chapter focused on a particular character.

 

[Caliber]

I think making a Watchmen movie is a mistake unless you can do everything in the book.

 

[jrpstarwars]

Terry Gilliam considered directing this film as early as 1989, but after several unsatisfactory drafts of the screenplay, decided the material unfilmable as a feature production. Gilliam has said he would consider directing it as a twelve hour miniseries.

Watchmen (2008)

Directed by
Zack Snyder

Writing credits
Alan Moore (graphic novel) &
Dave Gibbons (graphic novel)

 

[ToddIsDead]

It seems as those Snyder plans on filming the entire thing, and then may cut the Black Freighter out if it's too long.

 

[Katsuro]

I'd love if they did this LOTR style, where they film a 3-4 hour movie, cut it to 2 and half for the theater, but release the whole thing on DVD. I mean, even the extended cut would be missing some of the stuff in the book, but it would at least be something.

I just really, really want this movie to be made. I love Watchmen, and think more people need to experience this story. Most people dont read comic books or watch HBO mini-series, but everyone watches movies.

I just hope they dont change too much. Cutting stuff is one thing, but all out changing this, like the ending, is another. I know one draft had the ending completely revised, to where characters that died didn't die, and ones that didn't die lived instead. Also, i dont think the evil plan went through, which it definatley should. I just loved Adrian's line "get away with it? I did it 37 minutes ago!"

 

[Mr. Green]

Some HUGE things are going to be changed for sure. First, the whole cold war thing is going to be changed to a big conflict in the middle east. Also, if any of the things that involve Comedian and Dr. Manhattan in Vietnam trasfer into the movie, it will end up being the Gulf War or something. Everything will be moved 20 years into the future or more.

It's going to be so dramatically different from the comic because it's just a different time, and they'll have to for a general audience to be able to relate.

Maybe if they stated that the time was 1984 (or whatever year it took place) it could work. But they're not going to.

 

[Katsuro]

Some HUGE things are going to be changed for sure. First, the whole cold war thing is going to be changed to a big conflict in the middle east. Also, if any of the things that involve Comedian and Dr. Manhattan in Vietnam trasfer into the movie, it will end up being the Gulf War or something. Everything will be moved 20 years into the future or more.

It's going to be so dramatically different from the comic because it's just a different time, and they'll have to for a general audience to be able to relate.

Maybe if they stated that the time was 1984 (or whatever year it took place) it could work. But they're not going to.

They already did. The movie's taking place in the Cold War. Snyder himself mentioned it not long ago at all.

UPDATE: oh and here's a link: http://www.twitchfilm.net/archives/007765.html

 

[Savage]

Yeah, it's going to be a multi-period piece. This isn't like The Punisher (which I actually think would be cool if it was some gritty take on the 1970s and a sequel would take place in the present with the current, older Frank).

 

[Mr. Green]

What a relief! I just heard about this movie last night when I someone mentioned it and I found this thread. Maybe they can salvage some of the book afterall.

BTW, thanks for the info!

 

[Chains]

I'd love too see Watchmen done well as a movie. Rorschach is one of my favorite "heroes" and I think he would be really interesting on the bigscreen. The comic in my opinion doesn't seem like it ought to be that hard to cram into a 2.5-3 hours. You get rid of the comic book story, the lesbians and the white pages between chapters (Under the Hood, Veidt's stuff, etc.).

The white pages don't affect the story line only the reader's background knowledge of the story. The essential background knowledge is contained within the comic through the flashbacks. Really its not like much of the comic is a bunch of long drawn out fight sequences. The majority of the scenes look like they wouldn't take more than five minutes to watch before they transition to something else. Much of the comic is scenery and short conversations which translate into a few seconds of admiring the shot and a minute or two of heated argument or whatever. All in all very doable.

 

[Spider - Man]

Sorta off topic but I was reading an old Blue Beetle comic (60s ish drawn by Ditko) that had a story about the Question. There's another old one with the BB and Capt. Atom (also by Ditko). I just got to thinking how similar Rorschach and the Question are. And BB and his "beetle mobile" are very similar to Nightowl and his "owl mobile". MAybe a little similarity between Ozzy and CA - at least maybe a slight influence where the costume's concerned? I just wondered if anyone knew if Moore was influenced by these early Ditko comics?

 

[ConcreteBlock15]

Courtesy of wiki:

The cast of Watchmen was initially based upon old MLJ Comics characters. Moore and Gibbons agreed that Watchmen required a cast of characters that had continuity and a history upon which a story could be based. DC Comics had recently acquired the rights to some old Charlton Comics characters. This prompted former DC Editing Manager Dick Giordano to suggest that Moore use some of these characters. However, to avoid continuity issues with the recently acquired characters, and due to the fact that some of them would have become useless for future series, Moore decided to create new characters, using the recently acquired Charlton Comics characters as templates. This allowed for a more dynamic and unique set of characters. The Comedian (Edward Blake) is based on Peacemaker with elements of Marvel Comics' Nick Fury. Doctor Manhattan (Jon Osterman) is derived from Captain Atom, while the first and second Nite Owls (Hollis Mason and Dan Dreiberg) are based upon Blue Beetle. Thunderbolt serves as the inspiration for Ozymandias (Adrian Veidt), while the Question and Mr. A do the same for Rorschach (Walter Kovacs). Finally, the first and second Silk Spectres (Sally Jupiter and Laurie Juspeczyk) are based on Nightshade with elements of Black Canary and Phantom Lady.

 

[Savage]

Yup.

Also remembered something that can be omitted. The whole story about that missing artist who ended up on an island with all those people. That can be shortened to like...a minute, total, for the entire film.

 

[ConcreteBlock15]

You mean... that missing artist and all those other people who ended up on Veidt's secret private island... where they were hoodwinked into designing and creating his fake alien monster, before being murdered en masse to ensure their silence?

If... IF the movie screenplay includes the faux alien attack on NYC, then I'm not sure that its origin could satisfactorily be explained away by a mere sixty seconds worth of exposition featuring its creators.

There was no sign of a pan dimensional killer squid in the last copy of the proposed script that I saw, though... replaced by an altogether different means of annihilating NYC for starters...

 

[Savage]

Well the way I see it, they can be shown during Veidt's explaination of what his plan is. Just clips. Bits and pieces like being kidnapped in the first place and ending up on the island, show that they were happy, then their bitter end. Maybe throughout the movie we'd hear about these missing people on the news in the background.

I wouldn't really be bothered if they changed the threat entirely though. What matters is there was a great threat, period.

 

[Katsuro]

Well the way I see it, they can be shown during Veidt's explaination of what his plan is. Just clips. Bits and pieces like being kidnapped in the first place and ending up on the island, show that they were happy, then their bitter end. Maybe throughout the movie we'd hear about these missing people on the news in the background.

I wouldn't really be bothered if they changed the threat entirely though. What matters is there was a great threat, period.

And that the plan goes through. I read that one draft of the script has the villain actually being stopped, but Veidt's plan needs to be successful, otherwise the whole ending is shot. Hell, that line "stop me? I did it 37 minutes ago" is too cool to be dropped.

 

[Savage]

And that the plan goes through. I read that one draft of the script has the villain actually being stopped, but Veidt's plan needs to be successful, otherwise the whole ending is shot. Hell, that line "stop me? I did it 37 minutes ago" is too cool to be dropped.

Woah, woah woah. I hope that draft was scrapped because you can't have the guy be stopped. That's just...wrong! There goes the whole ending. The great thing about the ending is it's bittersweetness. The act is commited. Now everyone must deal with the consequences. Did he do the right thing? Did he f**k up? Is he really crazy or is he the most rational of them all? That's the kind of thing you're left wondering about.

 

[ConcreteBlock15]

I'm gonna spoiler tag this whole next bit so, if you don't wanna know, don't click; you'll only have yourself to blame! -

Spoiler

I've read David Hayter's third draft from 2003, and current scripter Alex Tse's alleged first draft from last year (supposedly NOT the final shooting script I hasten to add.) In both cases, Veidt indeed succeeds in carrying out his plan. Hayter replaces the infamous "I did it thirty-five minutes ago" line with a limp "I 'did it' just now", whilst Tse decides to make it a mere "...thirty minutes ago"... but no sign of any extradimensional squid monster anywhere!

Hayter has Veidt firing an orbiting solar weapon satellite which frys the population of NYC where they stand, and employs a blackmail plot whereby all influential world leaders receive an electronic 'black box' which instructs them to disarm or suffer further similar consequences.

Tse has multiple attacks upon several key cities across the globe and not just New York. This time, Veidt employs a death ray fired from his Antarctic base, the deadly lightning strikes which emerge from the heavens accompanied by the faked booming tones of Dr Manhattan in several different languages, ordering mankind to make peace and thereby fooling the world into believing that the threat comes from The Big Blue Guy himself.

In BOTH instances, however, one thing remains the same - Veidt isn't allowed to celebrate his 'accomplishment' for long and is killed by Dan/Nite Owl II in each script; Hayter has Dan dispatching Veidt with a well aimed 'Owl-a-rang' (yes, I know) in the chest, whilst in Tse's version, Dreiberg crashes his Owlship through the wall on autopilot remote control and crushes Veidt to death with it!

Thoughts?

 

[Katsuro]

I'm gonna spoiler tag this whole next bit so, if you don't wanna know, don't click; you'll only have yourself to blame! -

Spoiler

I've read David Hayter's third draft from 2003, and current scripter Alex Tse's alleged first draft from last year (supposedly NOT the final shooting script I hasten to add.) In both cases, Veidt indeed succeeds in carrying out his plan and the infamous "I did it thirty-five minutes ago" line remains... but no sign of any extradimensional squid monster anywhere!

Hayter has Veidt firing an orbiting solar weapon satellite which frys the population of several major cities worldwide, not just NYC, and employs a blackmail plot whereby world leaders all receive an electronic 'black box' which instructs them to disarm or suffer further consequences.

Tse also has multiple attacks upon several key cities across the globe, only this time Veidt employs a death ray fired from his Antarctic base, the deadly lightning strikes which emerge from the heavens accompanied by the faked booming tones of Dr Manhattan, ordering mankind to make peace and thereby fooling the world into believing that the threat comes from The Big Blue Guy himself.

In BOTH instances, however, one thing remains the same - Veidt isn't allowed to celebrate his 'accomplishment' for long and is killed by Dan/Nite Owl II in each script; Hayter has Dan dispatching Veidt with a well aimed 'Owl-a-rang' (yes, I know) in the chest, whilst in Tse's version, Dreiberg crashes his Owlship through the wall on autopilot remote control and crushes Veidt to death with it!

Thoughts?

I have no problems with the first part:

Spoiler

the method of the attack being a laser or whatnot, instead of a squid

but i'm not happy about

Spoiler

Veidt being killed

for the most part, the end should stay the same, and there's hardly a reason to change it.

 

[Savage]

Same. That ending is just too generic, expected even, and not even close to matching what Alan Moore wrote.

 

[Chains]

A laser doesn't command the kind of threat an alien psychic A-bomb does. It's harder to imagine the world coming together by its leaders being blackmailed. And Veidt should definitely not die. That would easily ruin the movie.

 

[Rez]

I've heard the praise for the drafts and as much as I love Hayter, I just can't get behind it. I've heard countless times that "it can't be done," but really, when you sit down and think it over- it can. Look at Sin City. Say what you will about the film itself, the fact is that it successfully took 3 entire comic story arcs along with a short story and translated it to film panel to panel in just over 2 hours.

Proof in the making.

And the changes? They just don't seem necessary. Cut out the text. The Pirate comic was a simple concept- it played off the "comic within a comic", the medium within the medium. To work in the film, you don't need to remove it, but simply change it. Make the Black Freighter a movie or a television show that a kid watches while arguing with the ticket guy or a friend or something.

One of the beauties of Watchmen is that literally no panel is wasted, and that everything is important. Hell, I probably read it 5 times before I figured out all the stuff on the island and other various small but extremely important plot lines.

And maybe it's just me, but I don't get the laser. The giant demon alien threat seems a lot cooler, not to mention more practical. Really I just want to see a giant alien, though. The God thing sort of works, but the blackmail part is just stupid(wouldn't work because the leaders would know one of the others is behind it and would only raise tensions).

But the real issue is Viedt. If you want to change the weapon from alien squid to laser, fine. It's a dumb choice, but doesn't affect the story THAT much. But killing Viedt is quite possibly the single worst thing you could do to a Watchmen film. The entire book rests upon him getting away with it all.