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[BMM]

Anything produced at a big studio, absolutely. Can be either a blessing or a curse.

I noticed Tom Rothman got big thank yous from two of the winners at the Golden Globes last week--in fact, Meryl Streep during her Best Actress (Comedy/Musical) referred to him as "Tommy" Rothman. Forrest Whittaker also thanked Tom Rothman for "always looking out for him," when he won Best Actor for Last King of Scotland.

Made wonder how he's thought of outside the fanboy/girl perspective.

Ha. I noticed that too.

I don't know how Rothman is perceived outside of the fanboy/girl perspective. I know some directors, such as Alex Proyas, have said that they won't ever work with Fox while under Rothman.

Also, there was an interesting article in The New York Times about Rothman, his methods, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/business/media/12movie.html?ex=1307764800&en=771420df168faa00&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Fox's Own Superheroes: A Daring Duo at the Studio

LOS ANGELES, June 11 — In Hollywood, candor is as common as a blue polyester pantsuit on Rodeo Drive.

That is why the actor Hugh Jackman reacted with surprise at what he heard in a meeting at 20th Century Fox last year to discuss "X-Men: The Last Stand," the third entry in the "X-Men" trilogy. Tom Rothman, Fox's energetic co-chairman, wanted to share an idea for the movie's plot: it would center on a medical cure for the mutant gene.

"I love this idea," Mr. Rothman said effusively as he bounded across the room to greet the actor, who was deciding whether to rejoin the cast. But there was one problem, Mr. Rothman conceded: he had no other ideas. If Mr. Jackman did not like the idea, Mr. Rothman described that situation in a harshly profane term.

"Can you think of any other studio executive who would have said that?" said Mr. Jackman, laughing. "There was no game playing. No tricks. No one talks like that in Hollywood. I suppose some people here don't want a straight answer; they want the candy-coated version. But at Fox they are not shy about giving their opinions."

However un-Hollywood the approach, it seems to be working for Fox, a unit of the News Corporation. Since becoming the co-chairmen of Fox Filmed Entertainment in 2000, Mr. Rothman and his partner, Jim Gianopulos, have churned out blockbusters like "The Day After Tomorrow," "Ice Age" and its sequel and the "Cheaper by the Dozen" movies.

At the same time Fox's specialty divisions have scored with lower-budget films, including last year's Academy Award winner "Walk the Line," "Sideways" in 2004 and the cult hit "Napoleon Dynamite."

With those hits, the studio has increased operating profit in the filmed entertainment division (which includes television production) year over year for the last four years, from $473 million in fiscal 2002 to $1 billion in fiscal 2005. Other studios in recent years have had more mixed results.

For the year to date, Fox is No. 1 in theatrical market share. As important, it has fostered a corporate culture that the News Corporation seeks in all its television, news and mobile entertainment divisions: eyes fixed on the bottom line while remaining fearless about creative risks.

Indeed Fox's success may well reflect less the current state of Hollywood movie making than the way News Corporation's chief executive, Rupert Murdoch, and his No. 2, Peter Chernin, run the company.

"The only thing you can ask is that people be straightforward to the point of bluntness," said Mr. Chernin, News Corporation's president. "That sort of backslapping, slick Hollywood attitude is not good for us or the business. It tends to lead to problems."

Problems, that is, with actors, producers and directors who demand as much money and power as a studio is willing to cede. As a result, Fox's make-no-excuses philosophy can be off-putting for some filmmakers. Fox won't approve a movie production until all contracts are signed. Movie directors are forced to defend their artistic decisions vigorously. And studio executives spare no ego if they decide a movie is too expensive.

"I'd heard the horror stories about the studio taking away movies and such; I was curious to see if it was that bad," said Brett Ratner, who directed "X-Men: The Last Stand."

Mr. Ratner, whose movie is a hit, said he was happy with Fox. But other directors were not so lucky. In May, a month before Jay Roach was to begin directing the comedy "Used Guys," the studio pulled the plug on the movie, citing a high budget ($112 million), scheduling concerns and the actors' generous profit-sharing arrangement. Mr. Roach declined to comment on the matter.

Still, despite what some would regard as bare-knuckled behavior, Mr. Rothman and Mr. Gianopulos maintain longstanding relationships with a stylistically diverse cadre of filmmakers.

Seated side by side in craftsman-style chairs in Mr. Rothman's office last week on the Fox lot, the executives displayed different yet well-matched personalities.

Mr. Gianopulos, 54, compact and given to warm laughter, absently plays with a bottle cap from a soft drink that Mr. Rothman brought to him from a refrigerator just outside the office. The 51-year-old Mr. Rothman, on the other hand, is tall and lanky, vibrating with the intensity of an overeager puppy ready to pounce.

"We are not here to be liked," Mr. Rothman said. "We don't work for talent agencies. We work for Fox. Our job is not to worry about agents who jibber-jabber to reporters, who worry about headlines." Mr. Gianopulos added that currying favor "is not tolerated around here from anyone; you are not going to get ahead scheming."

While the talk is tough, at least the rules are clear. "They never try to stuff their ideas down your throat," said Peter Farrelly, who has directed several films for Fox. "They will let you argue your point, and if you can't back it up, they won't back down."

Last year, for instance, Jim Ward, the president of LucasArts and the person responsible for marketing George Lucas's "Star Wars" movies, which are distributed by Fox, was troubled when Fox announced it would release Ridley Scott's epic "Kingdom of Heaven" nine days before the release of "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith." His concern was that "Kingdom of Heaven" would hurt ticket sales for the opening weekend of "Star Wars."

Mr. Ward confronted Mr. Gianopulos about moving "Kingdom" to another date. In the past, Mr. Ward said, Fox would have acquiesced to Mr. Lucas's requests. But Mr. Gianopulos refused, sticking by Mr. Scott.
"I didn't like it," Mr. Ward said, "but I had to respect it." In the end "Kingdom of Heaven" was no threat to "Star Wars," which brought in $380 million at the domestic box office.

There are plenty of stories in Hollywood about coequal executives plotting to push each other out. But Mr. Rothman and Mr. Gianopulos, both lawyers, do not seem headed in that direction. Mr. Rothman, who has worked at Fox for 12 years developing movies, oversees much of the studio's creative efforts. Mr. Gianopulos, a longtime international theatrical executive, also handles movies, but is active in exploring new technologies.

To ensure that enterprising executives (or agents and managers) do not try to pit the two against each other, the men instituted the "chairman's rule": if one of the two makes a decision, the other agrees no matter what. Of course that does not bar them from sparring with each other.

"O.K., I admit it. I didn't understand 'The Day After Tomorrow,' " Mr. Rothman said, referring to the blockbuster about global warming that brought in $187 million at the domestic box office in 2004. "That was Jim's call and we had a big fight over it."

"Come on," Mr. Gianopulos shouted. "I like that kind of movie!"

"I had a question about how to make it look fresh and original, and if we could execute in time," Mr. Rothman said. "But he was totally enthusiastic."

"I beat him into submission," Mr. Gianopulos said, laughing.

"It wasn't that I yielded; I was happily persuaded," Mr. Rothman countered.

Indeed persuasion, or more likely fiery debate, seems to be the way to get a movie made at Fox.

"Walk the Line" was rejected by every studio in Hollywood before Elizabeth Gabler, another Fox executive, lobbied her bosses to make it, at the low cost of $29 million. It brought in $120 million in the United States.

More recently, Mr. Rothman and Mr. Gianopulos were flummoxed over whether Rogue, a character in "X-Men," should give her beau a passionate kiss at the movie's end or simply hold his hand. The two executives screened the movie for their daughters as well as the studio's female marketing executives, and the hand holding prevailed. "The kissing was all about sex, and we didn't want that," said Mr. Gianopulos, grimacing.

Oddly, these are the same executives who backed the Farrelly brothers movie "There's Something About Mary," which showed a woman using semen as hair gel and a man getting his penis caught in his zipper. "I like the fact that decisions aren't easy," Mr. Rothman said. "I like to talk through the issues before they get done, working things over."

Mr. Rothman's probing, though, can be grating, filmmakers and former Fox staff members said. And his tendency to raise his voice when he gets worked up takes getting used to.

"It's no secret that it took a long time for Tom and I to work things out," said Baz Luhrmann, who has been making films for Fox since 1993, including the critically acclaimed "Moulin Rouge," and continues to do so. "There are a lot of Tomisms. He'll say 'It's not exactly my first day.' "

Mr. Rothman insisted that his reactions are never personal, that he is just trying to make the best movie. The director Bryan Singer, who upset Mr. Rothman when he dropped out of the third "X-Men" movie despite a scheduled release this past Memorial Day weekend, described it this way. "I call it a Hollywood moment," he said.

Mr. Rothman had picked Mr. Singer to direct the first "X-Men," and together they shepherded the first two hit movies onto the screen. But as Mr. Singer was negotiating to direct the third "X-Men: The Last Stand" in July 2004, Warner Brothers gave him the offer of directing "Superman Returns." Mr. Singer jumped at the chance and, without first talking to Mr. Rothman, accepted the job.

"If I had done it openly, Tom would have driven to my house and we would have talked about it until sunrise," said Mr. Singer, who still considers Mr. Rothman a friend.

Rumors swirled that Mr. Singer was banned from the Fox lot.

Mr. Rothman, who confirmed Mr. Singer's account of the break, said Mr. Singer had not been banned from the lot, but conceded that the director's leaving was a "personal disappointment." For nearly a year and a half the two did not talk.

Skeptics predicted the franchise was doomed. Mr. Rothman and his team then revised the "X-Men" script and hired Mr. Ratner to direct. And one day earlier this year, Mr. Singer said, he got a phone call from Mr. Rothman asking him to "bury the hatchet" over lunch at Prego.

Of course, for Mr. Rothman and Mr. Gianopulos, the un-Hollywood story is having the perfect Hollywood ending. "X-Men: The Last Stand" was released on Memorial Day weekend as Mr. Rothman had wanted, and raked in $122 million — the biggest opening ever for a movie released over that holiday period.

As of last Friday, "X-Men" was the No. 2 movie this year, bringing in $185 million domestically according to the studio and Nielsen EDI, which tracks box office figures. And No. 1? Another Fox hit, the animated "Ice Age: The Meltdown" with $194 million.

Although I’m skeptical about Peter Farrelly’s comment regarding the shoving of ideas down one’s throat . . . because that sounds a lot like what happened to X-Men 3 to me, so who knows.

 

[gambitfire]

B

How do you know this for sure? How do you know that the changes were made before that scene was filmed?

Well for one thing they stated having changed the leaked script by the time they where half way filming (I don't know if by then the bridge scene had been filmed). The bridge SFX not having everything else only mean unfinished SFX seeing as how the trailer also had storm not shooting lightning, spinning slowly, and the villains falling in place.

Besides that how do you know for sure it wasn't?

 

[X-Maniac]

I'd buy that if Storm actually had a significant part in the Phoenix story arc as well. But she didn't. She talked to Wolverine about how Jean killed the Professor, but we saw no interaction what so ever between Storm and jean. We saw no reaction of Storm's best friend coming back from certain death, we saw no struggle in Storm having to face the realization that her friend was gone for good. We had one conversation that was less about her struggles with Jean's problems than it was about trying to make sure Wolverine was being a team player.

The movie just didn't give off the sense that "Wow, the cure is bad, but there's something a lot more important that we have to deal with right now", and that's where the lack of depth lies in this film, and where my biggest complaint with the film is at.

Well, Storm and Jean never showed any friendship or sisterly bonding in the prior two movies, so I guess the blame for the lack of warmth between them doesn't just lie on the shoulders of X3.

X3 showed a side of Storm that was clearly stated by Chris Claremont in an interview, the same one in which he said she WAS a goddess. Storm can be very black-and-white, fairly intolerant, taking simple and fundamental(ist) standpoints. The Storm from the comics who did not want Rogue (then a criminal) to join the team. This was the Storm we saw in X3. I didn't mind it as the events of X3 did call for hard decisions and tough actions, so it was fine for Storm to be that way, though i would have liked it tempered with a little more compassion - the scene with Kitty at the gravestones would have helped immensely but that was yet another victim of the editing scissors.

As I said before, there was a lack of warmth in all three movies - and i don't mean emotion. I mean a sense of camaraderie and friendship between the key X-Men members. In X1, Storm, Jean and Cyclops were fairly sterile and distant with each other - the movie chose to focus on outsiders (Wolverine, Rogue and Magneto) and expected us to simply accept the people the film was named after - the X-Men.

However, X3 did miss some opportunities to show Storm trying to reach Jean (largely because Wolverine was hogging the storyline).

(Something else entered my mind about the movie when i watched it tonight - over how many miles does Callisto's power work, and how would it detect a mutant convoy on the movie? And since she can detect mutants and their powers, she could have stepped on to the convoy and said what their powers were without Pyro reading out the 'guest list.' This would have allowed an introduction to Mystique, where we could have heard Callisto's name, even seen a flash of rivalry in their eyes. It probably wouldn't have worked within the dynamics of the scene and what happened in the scene and who it was supposed to focus on, but it crossed my mind.)

 

[gambitfire]

X3 showed a side of Storm that was clearly stated by Chris Claremont in an interview, the same one in which he said she WAS a goddess. Storm can be very black-and-white, fairly intolerant, taking simple and fundamental(ist) standpoints. The Storm from the comics who did not want Rogue (then a criminal) to join the team. This was the Storm we saw in X3. I didn't mind it as the events of X3 did call for hard decisions and tough actions, so it was fine for Storm to be that way, though i would have liked it tempered with a little more compassion - the scene with Kitty at the gravestones would have helped immensely but that was yet another victim of the editing scissors.

We must have been reading a different Storm. Well, this is just me but because she didn't want to take in Rogue it doesn't therefore automatically make her emotion towards that situation black and white. In that case most X - Characters are. I just disagree that's all.

 

[Farren]

More recently, Mr. Rothman and Mr. Gianopulos were flummoxed over whether Rogue, a character in "X-Men," should give her beau a passionate kiss at the movie's end or simply hold his hand. The two executives screened the movie for their daughters as well as the studio's female marketing executives, and the hand holding prevailed. "The kissing was all about sex, and we didn't want that," said Mr. Gianopulos, grimacing.

I remember hearing about this last summer...

I mean, "The kissing was all about sex"??? What decade is this man living in? And since when are the daughters of two execs a valid marketing group? If my dad thought kissing = sex, I'd probably be horrified by Rogue and Bobby smooching too.

 

[the a1ant]

(Something else entered my mind about the movie when i watched it tonight - over how many miles does Callisto's power work, and how would it detect a mutant convoy on the movie? And since she can detect mutants and their powers, she could have stepped on to the convoy and said what their powers were without Pyro reading out the 'guest list.' This would have allowed an introduction to Mystique, where we could have heard Callisto's name, even seen a flash of rivalry in their eyes. It probably wouldn't have worked within the dynamics of the scene and what happened in the scene and who it was supposed to focus on, but it crossed my mind.)

I agree with you on the 'guest list' scene. For me, that scene was very cheesy. It might've been better for Callisto to 'read' the mutants on board the vehicle. It's funny how she just disapeared in that scene...wasn't she outside the vehicle?

 

[WorthyStevens]

Mr. Rothman insisted that his reactions are never personal, that he is just trying to make the best movie.

You f***ed up big time on that one Tom.

 

[danoyse]

And since when are the daughters of two execs a valid marketing group?

It's not that unusual. A company I used to work for would sometimes use their own kids for testing, if they fit the demo. I can totally see an exec showing some kids two different versions of a scene to see which they liked better. From what I've seen, they're not more likely to approve a project just because they had a parent that worked on it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well, Storm and Jean never showed any friendship or sisterly bonding in the prior two movies, so I guess the blame for the lack of warmth between them doesn't just lie on the shoulders of X3.

X3 showed a side of Storm that was clearly stated by Chris Claremont in an interview, the same one in which he said she WAS a goddess. Storm can be very black-and-white, fairly intolerant, taking simple and fundamental(ist) standpoints. The Storm from the comics who did not want Rogue (then a criminal) to join the team. This was the Storm we saw in X3. I didn't mind it as the events of X3 did call for hard decisions and tough actions, so it was fine for Storm to be that way, though i would have liked it tempered with a little more compassion - the scene with Kitty at the gravestones would have helped immensely but that was yet another victim of the editing scissors.

As I said before, there was a lack of warmth in all three movies - and i don't mean emotion. I mean a sense of camaraderie and friendship between the key X-Men members. In X1, Storm, Jean and Cyclops were fairly sterile and distant with each other - the movie chose to focus on outsiders (Wolverine, Rogue and Magneto) and expected us to simply accept the people the film was named after - the X-Men.

However, X3 did miss some opportunities to show Storm trying to reach Jean (largely because Wolverine was hogging the storyline).

(Something else entered my mind about the movie when i watched it tonight - over how many miles does Callisto's power work, and how would it detect a mutant convoy on the movie? And since she can detect mutants and their powers, she could have stepped on to the convoy and said what their powers were without Pyro reading out the 'guest list.' This would have allowed an introduction to Mystique, where we could have heard Callisto's name, even seen a flash of rivalry in their eyes. It probably wouldn't have worked within the dynamics of the scene and what happened in the scene and who it was supposed to focus on, but it crossed my mind.)

See, that arguement doesn't even make sense.

Yea, Storm might have been the one that didn't want Rogue to join the team, but Storm is pretty much the only one who's been in Gambit's corner, despite his dark past with Sabretooth, Sinister, and the Mutant Massacre. Storm wasn't the one that left him stranded alone in Antarctica, that was Rogue. Storm is the one that is still in Gambit's corner the entire time. She's the one who brought him to the team.

The Storm that I've read has never really been all that black & white, and the Storm that I've read really isn't the Storm that Singer portrayed in his movies. The Storm I've read has always been a kind, compassionate figure of honor and dignity. The Storm in the movies is pissed off because some humans hate her, so she hates them sometimes too. And anger helps her survive and blah blah blah.

But, that's besides the point. The point of the matter is, whatever character arc these movies took, X-Men: The Last Stand did a piss poor job of trying to establish her into EITHER major plot arc.

In the cure plot arc, which really is the main plot of the movie, we have her express her hatred towards the cure. Storm isn't a secondary character. She's no Colossus, even Iceman. She's front and center. In Fox's words, this is a Halle Berry movie. She's the main character. And this expression of hatred towards the cure is how that main character is going to fit into your main plotline. But she didn't. That view that she held towards the cure never played any kind of role what so ever in the film. And because of it, Storm was not a 3 dimensional character. Not even sure she got a second dimension to her.

In the other major plot arc, which was the Phoenix Saga, all we get is a "She made her choice" speech to Wolverine. We got no interaction what so ever between Storm and Jean. Storm, one of the major characters of the film, had absolutley no involvement in either of the 2 dominant story arcs. She was not fleshed out in the least.

One line about hating the cure, and one line about Jean making her choice, does not constitute fleshing out a character, and giving that character something meaningful. Storm played absolutley no role in this film except as a special effects conductor in the major confrontations.

I might think she was bastardized in X-Men and X2, but hell, at least they didn't pretend to make her a main character in those films. She was really a secondary character in both prior films, where Wolverine, Magneto, and Xavier dominated the story arcs. This 3rd film attempted to make Storm a major character, but couldn't give her anything to do in either of the major story arcs.

I may hate Halle Berry in the role of Storm, but god damn she sure did get screwed with the material as well.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

It's funny how she just disapeared in that scene...wasn't she outside the vehicle?

Characters have a tendancy of just disappearing in this movie.

So, in the church scene, Magneto recruits Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke. In the convoy scene, Psylocke is gone. It's Callisto, Arclight, and Quill. When Magneto enters the convoy, it's just him and Pyro. Callisto, Arclight, and Quill are gone. Okay, I guess I can buy that Callisto, Arclight, and Quill just kick it outside the convoy while Magneto handles his business.

Back at Magneto's hideout, it's Callisto, Arclight, Pyro, Multiple Man, and Juggernaut. I can buy that Quill is kicking it up in the forest. But in the next scene, at Jean's house, Pyro, Multiple Man and Psylocke are still missing. Magneto obviously wants his army there, since he takes Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Juggernaut. But where is Psylocke? Where is Multiple Man? And where the hell is his right hand man Pyro?!

All of them are present in the woods, except for Psylocke. She is never seen in any of the scenes beyond her one church line.

Until somehow, she's randomly inside Worthington Labs with Arclight and Quill go after Warren Worthington. But, Psylocke wasn't there to get the order to go after Warren Worthington. So, how did she get there?

There's definatley some incoherance in how characters appear in certain scenes and not in others.

Can you imagine a battle at Jean's house of:

Pyro, Juggernaut, Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke vs. Wolverine and Storm? That would have been awesome to have Psylocke and Pyro in that battle.

That would have been the ultimate mutant rumble of super powers all over the place. The visual powers of Psylocke, Pyro, and Storm, the brute powers of Wolverine and Juggernaut, the mental powers of Xavier and Jean, all in one sequence?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

It's not that unusual. A company I used to work for would sometimes use their own kids for testing, if they fit the demo. I can totally see an exec showing some kids two different versions of a scene to see which they liked better. From what I've seen, they're not more likely to approve a project just because they had a parent that worked on it.

Hence why a studio like Fox doesn't need their hands on classic and well loved source material.

There's a reason why superhero films like Batman Begins and Spider-Man are well respected. Studios are not interferring with politics, you know? What we're getting at is since when do teenagers make decisions about a film like X-Men?

Reading what Rothman did makes me HOPE/WISH that Marvel buys the rights back from Fox. It's clear they have no idea what they're doing and don't recognize potential.

 

[gambitfire]

It's not that unusual. A company I used to work for would sometimes use their own kids for testing, if they fit the demo. I can totally see an exec showing some kids two different versions of a scene to see which they liked better. From what I've seen, they're not more likely to approve a project just because they had a parent that worked on it.

Well here's how i feel about this. You can know nothing about art and appreciate it. Just because you love it, doesn't mean you can make it just as good. (in regards to films)

In other words they may think it's the right choice, but who's too say if these ppl where not asked which one, they wouldn't enjoy the other if it hadn't been screened by them.



In the end they shouldn't have cured Rogue period.

 

[LadyVader]

Well, if the cliffhanger at the end is any indication, she might not even be cured.


I would've been ok with Rogue getting cured if they'd explore it a little more and didn't make it seem like a desperate attempt for a girl to hang on to her boyfriend. She made a decision to radically change her life based on the fact that Bobby ust went ice skating with another girl. Yeah, that's mature. And at the end she doesn't even get to kiss him.

But then again, it's Bobby. If it would've been Gambit... The movie would've ended with Rogue enjoying her 43rd orgasm, I guarantee it.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, if the cliffhanger at the end is any indication, she might not even be cured.

So much for the emotional impact/trauma of the cure, eh?

I would've been ok with Rogue getting cured if they'd explore it a little more and didn't make it seem like a desperate attempt for a girl to hang on to her boyfriend. She made a decision to radically change her life based on the fact that Bobby ust went ice skating with another girl. Yeah, that's mature. And at the end she doesn't even get to kiss him.

EMO IS EPIC!!!! ROXOR!!!! t:

Haven't you read the Kinberg interviews??

But then again, it's Bobby. If it would've been Gambit... The movie would've ended with Rogue enjoying her 43rd orgasm, I guarantee it.

A Gambit enthusiast, I take it?

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Can you imagine a battle at Jean's house of:

Pyro, Juggernaut, Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke vs. Wolverine and Storm? That would have been awesome to have Psylocke and Pyro in that battle.

That would have been the ultimate mutant rumble of super powers all over the place. The visual powers of Psylocke, Pyro, and Storm, the brute powers of Wolverine and Juggernaut, the mental powers of Xavier and Jean, all in one sequence?

Wouldn't the good guys get their a$$$ kicked in like 10 seconds flat?

Come to think of it... that's, what, a whole 20 seconds longer than what we got?

 

[LadyVader]

I'm just calling it like it is. Gambit is sex on a stick and everybody knows it.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Characters have a tendancy of just disappearing in this movie.

So, in the church scene, Magneto recruits Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke. In the convoy scene, Psylocke is gone. It's Callisto, Arclight, and Quill. When Magneto enters the convoy, it's just him and Pyro. Callisto, Arclight, and Quill are gone. Okay, I guess I can buy that Callisto, Arclight, and Quill just kick it outside the convoy while Magneto handles his business.

Back at Magneto's hideout, it's Callisto, Arclight, Pyro, Multiple Man, and Juggernaut. I can buy that Quill is kicking it up in the forest. But in the next scene, at Jean's house, Pyro, Multiple Man and Psylocke are still missing. Magneto obviously wants his army there, since he takes Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Juggernaut. But where is Psylocke? Where is Multiple Man? And where the hell is his right hand man Pyro?!

All of them are present in the woods, except for Psylocke. She is never seen in any of the scenes beyond her one church line.

Until somehow, she's randomly inside Worthington Labs with Arclight and Quill go after Warren Worthington. But, Psylocke wasn't there to get the order to go after Warren Worthington. So, how did she get there?

There's definatley some incoherance in how characters appear in certain scenes and not in others.

Can you imagine a battle at Jean's house of:

Pyro, Juggernaut, Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke vs. Wolverine and Storm? That would have been awesome to have Psylocke and Pyro in that battle.

That would have been the ultimate mutant rumble of super powers all over the place. The visual powers of Psylocke, Pyro, and Storm, the brute powers of Wolverine and Juggernaut, the mental powers of Xavier and Jean, all in one sequence?

Sounds like it's just more mindless action to me. I would've preferred Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, and Colossus to the scene in which you are referring to. I think it would've served the plot a lot more, would've added more emotion, and wouldn't just be action for the sake of action.

Plus it would've been a horribly uneven match. Storm and Logan would've gotten their asses kicked in 5 seconds flat. The fact that they still got their asses handed to them proves it wouldn't have worked.

For me it's more than just about visual eye candy. I want a great story behind the action.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

See, it's not just me about the a$$$ kicking thingy...

 

[Angamb]

Characters have a tendancy of just disappearing in this movie.

So, in the church scene, Magneto recruits Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke. In the convoy scene, Psylocke is gone. It's Callisto, Arclight, and Quill. When Magneto enters the convoy, it's just him and Pyro. Callisto, Arclight, and Quill are gone. Okay, I guess I can buy that Callisto, Arclight, and Quill just kick it outside the convoy while Magneto handles his business.

Back at Magneto's hideout, it's Callisto, Arclight, Pyro, Multiple Man, and Juggernaut. I can buy that Quill is kicking it up in the forest. But in the next scene, at Jean's house, Pyro, Multiple Man and Psylocke are still missing. Magneto obviously wants his army there, since he takes Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Juggernaut. But where is Psylocke? Where is Multiple Man? And where the hell is his right hand man Pyro?!

All of them are present in the woods, except for Psylocke. She is never seen in any of the scenes beyond her one church line.

Until somehow, she's randomly inside Worthington Labs with Arclight and Quill go after Warren Worthington. But, Psylocke wasn't there to get the order to go after Warren Worthington. So, how did she get there?

There's definatley some incoherance in how characters appear in certain scenes and not in others.

Can you imagine a battle at Jean's house of:

Pyro, Juggernaut, Callisto, Arclight, Quill, and Psylocke vs. Wolverine and Storm? That would have been awesome to have Psylocke and Pyro in that battle.

That would have been the ultimate mutant rumble of super powers all over the place. The visual powers of Psylocke, Pyro, and Storm, the brute powers of Wolverine and Juggernaut, the mental powers of Xavier and Jean, all in one sequence?

you have said a big problem of the film. The use of the brotherhood members. That was horrible. Specially Psylocke, in terms of the script, really bad, if you aren't gonna use well a character as Psylocke, don't use her, it's stupid, and more if you kill her at the end, that's not just for the character, who was an x-men in the comics. I think the brotherhood whould have been allways together, or at least, have little missions individually, to have some development each member.

Bad isssue, fox. Really bad.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Yeah, but cameos are epic roxxor!!!!

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

Mr. Rothman insisted that his reactions are never personal, that he is just trying to make the best movie.

You f***ed up big time on that one Tom.

Of course his reactions are personal, as evidenced by this segment.


Mr. Rothman, who confirmed Mr. Singer's account of the break, said Mr. Singer had not been banned from the lot, but conceded that the director's leaving was a "personal disappointment." For nearly a year and a half the two did not talk.

 

[Angamb]

I don't get where there isn't any warmth in the other films? X1 has more emotion than anything in X3, that, and the fact that the scenes were given enough time to sink in and last...you people are talking about X3 having more emotion, but it was in short, spastic bursts...that's not more emotion if you can't experience it for yourself.

X1: Opening scene at Auschwitz, overcomes any emotional scene in X3, in my opinion. What an impact, what a way to introduce a character, to help us understand him, and in the end to help us care.

X1:Rogue's introduction scene. We see her fiesty nature, the tension in the scene is there, the anticipation, then it's all stripped away in one moment.

X1: Conversation between Xavier and Magneto at the Senate hearing. The history between the two is there and you can feel the companionship between the two, the emotion goes up and down, you feel compassion for one another.

X1:The conversation between Rogue and Wolverine when they first meet has some emotion, when they reveal a little about who they actually are. "So, what kind of a name is Rogue?" "I don't know, what kind of a name is Wovlerine?" "Name's Logan" "Marie" it's subtle, but present. There began a connection between the characters, but it's interupted.

X1: The conversation between Logan and Marie at the train station is another one that, to me, isn't comparable to X3, we care about the characters, we understand what they're going through.

X1: When Xavier has been "poisoned" by Mystique, the monologue by Cyclops is more powerful than anything X3 offered with Cyclops. We care about his character yet again.

X1: Senator Kelly and Storm's talk, yeah some complain that Storm, "I suppose, sometimes I am afraid of dem." that the line has no background, but still she has emotion, she has a fear...and that beats her throwing more lightning around, having a chic haircut, and an angry stance about some political issue anytime.

X1: The liberty scene towards the end, when Magneto stops Wolverine from destroying the machine, and we're waiting for Cyclops to do something, the tension is unbearable, "Scott, wait!"

X1: Logan attempting to revive Marie, again, beats X3 stuff for me.

X1: The little conversation between Logan and Jean, "You know, I think she's a little taken with you." "Tell her my heart belongs to someone else" There is warmth among the characters.

X1: End conversation between Logan and Rogue.

These are all of course my own opinions, but don't tell me that X3 is CLEARLY more emotional than the first two...because clearly to me, it isn't.

Surprised to read that from you. I thought it was from other user.

totally agreed with you here. X1 is a better film than the other two. A couple, friends of mine, and older than me, said me they liked X1 more than X2. I gave them the first two dvds, before X3. So don't know what they will think about X3, but I'm sure they will think the same.

 

[Theweepeople]

The first time I heard about who Tom Rothman was and the impact he has on Fox was during the summer of 2005 with the X3 script review released on Aint it cool news. Here is the link to the article: http://www.aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?id=20443

Since it is difficult to read I copied and pasted some of the quotes that made me wonder what is wrong with Rothman.





"Now, before we begin, let?s clarify a few things. Harry and I have not read the X-MEN 3 script, any version of it. We?ve got a new spy who has, though, and I?ve been able to verify that the version of the script he read was the ?six-day-draft? that Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn wrote under the supervision of Matthew Vaughn. I like both Kinberg and Penn as writers, and I know that both of them are genuinely going to try to do right by the characters. However, this isn?t a case of two writers doing whatever they want. If it were, I don?t think there?d be anything to worry about.

You want to know who the main villain of X3 is going to be' Tom Rothman.

One of the reasons I started reading AICN, before I ever contributed anything to it, was because it demystified the development process. So often, blame (or credit) is assigned by fans to people for no particular reason. It?s easy to point a finger at a director or at a writer or even at a company like Marvel and assume that they were responsible for something, but having gone through the development process several times now for different studios (including Fox), I can tell you that more often than not, the truly terrible decisions can come from people whose names you never see onscreen.

When I call Rothman a villain, I?m well aware of how loaded that word is. I can?t think of anything more shocking this year, though, than the speech he gave at this year?s Saturn Awards. Here?s a show specifically designed to celebrate genre, a room filled with SF, fantasy, and horror filmmakers, and Tom Rothman gets up and not only lambasts everyone who writes about those genres, but also has the nerve to call himself a geek.

You, sir, are no geek. A geek would not have stripmined the ALIEN and PREDATOR franchises the way you did. A geek would not consistently value release dates and fiscal quarters over getting material right. Listening to him talk about what a friend he is to genre filmmakers was akin to being at a Shoah Foundation dinner where the guest of honor was Joseph Goebbels. This is the guy who chased Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin off an ID4 sequel after they made $600 million for the studio because he wanted to pay them half of what they made on the first film. This is the man who browbeat Stephen Norrington until he quit the business altogether. This is the guy who almost convinced Alex Proyas to give up filmmaking. How many genre filmmakers... great genre filmmakers... do you see returning to Fox over and over to make their films' And why, exactly, do you think that is'

By the way, Rothman... telling a ballroom full of people that you?re a geek because you **** the star of SUSPIRIA and PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE every night' Classy. Very, very classy. But still... not the point.

If you?re a Fox stockholder, now is the time to be concerned. X-MEN is the only proven major franchise that Fox currently has up and running. Who knows if FANTASTIC FOUR is going to work or not' Maybe it?ll be great. Maybe it won?t. ALIEN VS PREDATOR marked the end of two franchises at the same time. STAR WARS was never yours in the first place. Studios depend on these types of films. There?s a reason they?re called tentpoles. This is what you build the entire rest of your release year around. If you manage one of these properties the right way, it?s the gift that keeps on giving. Look at the way Sony has handled SPIDER-MAN so far. As soon as they release one, they start developing the next one, giving them plenty of time to get the script just right. They don?t start shooting until this winter, but they?re already doing FX and costume tests, and they?re deep into the writing process based on an outline that Sam Raimi and his brother have been tweaking since last year.

You know when Rothman finally gave the go-ahead to start putting together the treatment for X-MEN 3' This February. I?m a chronic procrastinator, and even I think that?s piss-poor time management, man.

Here?s the thing about X-MEN. It may be one of the most flexible and durable film franchises I?ve ever seen. By the very nature of who the X-Men are, you can rotate cast in and out of the series without having to scrap continuity. This is already off to a better financial and creative start than the Bond franchise was, and you see the legs on that one. Why, then, would you allow a personal grudge to lead you to make decisions that will not only kill the golden goose, but also rape it and eat it'

And make no mistake... the rush to make that Memorial Day 2006 release date is about beating Bryan Singer to the screen. The acrimony involved in the Singer/Fox break-up is rich enough to write an entire book about, especially if it leads to the destruction of the franchise. This could turn into one of the all-time great displays of executive hubris in Hollywood. You want to know why you lost Singer to Warner Bros. and SUPERMAN in the first place' Because you took over a year to negotiate his deal to direct X-MEN 3. That should have been one of the biggest no-brainer decisions you could have ever made, but maybe you have to have a brain to make a no-brainer decision. You strung him along and strung him along and strung him along, and then when you had finally proven to him that you weren?t going to make things easy... you were too late. Alan Horn took full advantage of Bryan?s almost-fetishistic love of Donner?s SUPERMAN and your hesitancy, and he stole him from you. I don?t know what?s funnier... throwing Bryan off the lot using security guards, or the fact that you had to let him back on the lot immediately thereafter so he could shoot HOUSE for the studio.

What?s really amazing is how X-MEN was something Rothman hated from the start, no matter what he says now in public. I?ve spoken to at least ten people close to the production who have provided me with laundry lists of the ways that Rothman tried to **** up the first film. Remember when they cut the budget and moved up the release date on the first X-MEN' You know why' Rothman was cutting his losses. He really, truly anticipated that the film would come out and vanish without a trace, and he would finally be rid of what he saw as a corporate albatross. Instead, the film clicked, and on the second film, Bryan Singer and his writers and the producers were all able to muster enough muscle to get Fox to give them the room they needed to make something even better.

That must have stuck in Rothman?s craw something fierce, and that?s what led to that massive slow-down after X-MEN 2. They should have made Bryan?s deal the following week, and they should have also locked in Dougherty and Harris and Tom DeSanto and Lauren Shuler-Donner and Ralph Winter and the entire production team and the cast and everyone else that was part of the creative alchemy that made the first two films work. I remember one year at BNAT when Tom DeSanto talked about the way they had been planting the seeds of the Dark Phoenix storyline and several others since the very first scenes of the first X-MEN. Who knows' Maybe someday Marvel will let DeSanto and Singer do a graphic novel or a limited-run series where they do the story they had in mind for X3 and X4 on the comics page so we can at least see where the films were originally headed. As it is, Rothman?s firmly back in charge of the franchise now, and that distaste for the material seems to be seeping back in.

Which is not to say that all the news is bad.

When I was first contacted by The Big Hurt, our new spy, I almost dismissed the review he sent us. Too much detail is almost always the giveaway for someone trying to troll you. But I was able to verify this with multiple sources all the way up the chain of command at Fox and Marvel, and I can tell you... even though some of the details of the script are still being hammered out, the spine of what you?re going to see onscreen next summer is right here. Harry seems to have implied in some of what he?s written that he feels this is an unmitigated disaster. I?m not so sure yet. I do know that there are some valid complaints here, particularly regarding the way the main menace of the film is almost a carbon-copy of the menace from the last film. Also, one of Rothman?s chuckle-headed notions that he kept trying to shoehorn into the first film, the idea of Storm and Wolverine having a steamy sexual relationship, has resurfaced now. Gee, I wonder why. But there?s stuff here that I like, and it sounds like there are some amazing sequences in store. Keep in mind also that what our spy read was rough, so even if the substance of a scene was right in the draft he read, the way it?s actually handled may be very different in the final version. Dialogue, the description of certain effects, the way an action scene is fleshed out... it?s still early days yet. And even with all those caveats, this is mostly a positive review."


Here are a few things I wanted to say about this article:

I can't believe that Rothman wanted to force the writers involved with X1 and X3 into including a sexy relationship between Storm and Wolverine. I can only imagine the hell Brian went through to produce the first X-Men movie with Rothman micro managing everything he did.

Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn were hired to write the script of X3 in October of 2004

This article says they completed the first draft in six days when Matthew Vaughn was hired. Matthew was hired in March of 2005. What were Simon and Zak doing at Fox from October to 2004 to March of 2005?!!!

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This article says they completed the first draft in six days when Matthew Vaughn was hired. Matthew was hired in March of 2005. What were Simon and Zak doing at Fox from October to 2004 to March of 2005?!!!

I believe they were writing.

In the stages before Vaughn, when there was no director, Kinberg and Penn were basically to write separate drafts. When Vaughn came in, this infamous "6 day draft" was basically Vaughn, Kinberg, and Penn, altogether, taking what they felt was the best elements of the 2 different drafts, bringing them together with one, with input from Matthew Vaughn on what he wanted.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Sounds like it's just more mindless action to me. I would've preferred Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, and Colossus to the scene in which you are referring to. I think it would've served the plot a lot more, would've added more emotion, and wouldn't just be action for the sake of action.

Plus it would've been a horribly uneven match. Storm and Logan would've gotten their asses kicked in 5 seconds flat. The fact that they still got their asses handed to them proves it wouldn't have worked.

For me it's more than just about visual eye candy. I want a great story behind the action.

Hmm, well, at the Jean house scene, I dunno that Colossus would have really fit in there.

The purpose of just Storm and Wolverine going was because Xavier DIDN'T want trouble, DIDN'T expect Magneto, and this was just supposed to be a more personal mission. Colossus wasn't attatched to Jean the way Xavier, Wolverine and Storm were (or obviously, Cyclops, if he were still alive).

That's why I didn't mention adding any other X-Men.

Magneto, on the other hand, you'd think he'd want his most trusted partner who, at this point, was Pyro. Why he wasn't there, I don't understand.