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[La_She-Beast]

IMO the "number classes" was worse than an astral plane or whatever. Some kind of Pokemon thingy.

 

[Mike059jig]

^yes telekentic cocoon and the power levels dialogue threw all the realism out the window.....I thought the astral plane was when X went into senator kenedy head was pretty cool.....

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Did you notice that Logan babe didn't reply to my post of me providing comic book history, the importance of characters, and the concept about the X-Men in general? She avoided it like the plague and knew she was exposed.

Not aknowledging the relevance of the G.I.Joe/Transformers analogy because she didn't care for it sort of tipped the hand. t:

Apparently, the whole 'ongoing war between good and evil plus ensemble cast' similarities just couldn't be cared for in an argument regarding the importance of leader figures.

But then again, same can be said for Fox. t:

She has the nerve to ask "Where is the overexposure of Logan?" Well, let's see, he's getting his own movie, getting his own cartoon, was almost made the main character/leader in the Astonishing series until fans started yelling at Whedon for considering the possibility of killing off Cyclops, and of course he was overexposed in X3. He is an overexposed character at this point and anything that's overexposed gets old.

The hell? Wait, do you mean considering to kill him right off the bat or...??? Gaaah.

And yeah, the 'where is the overexposure of Logan?' thingy is pretty damn funny. Thought it had been written in the very fabric of the universe (not just Marvelverse, universe, mind you) years ago. t:

Refer to the Mystique fight in X1 and the one with stick-throwing-no-name in X3. What the hell's the point of having Logan fight - for bloody minutes, mind you - enemies that will either go down in one hit or never be hit at all?

We get to see Logan impersonating a punching bag. Oh, and he runs, too. Talk about meaningful edge-of-your-seat tension.

Has nothing to do with screentime for the hell of it, nope, siree, nope. EPIC!!!!!!!! t:

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Besides no one complained abou how unrealistic the Danger Room or Sentinels were.

Mmm.

I thought people didn't even bother with that one because the scene sucked so bad.

Hell, the only people refering to it as one of the movie's highlits are Rogue fanatics and that's only because she sort of got something to do in that one scene. t:

 

[LadyVader]

Rogue has something to do? HAHAHA! That's funny. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[xmenfilesfan05]

Mmm.

I thought people didn't even bother with that one because the scene sucked so bad.

Hell, the only people refering to it as one of the movie's highlits are Rogue fanatics and that's only because she sort of got something to do in that one scene. t:

Ugh...something to do...blegch!

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Folks, I did say SORT OF.

And notice I did say fanatics. Rogue fans will just curse Fox rather than try to find something that's not there.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm sure I've already explained my reasoning to you before but, as usual I will have to break it down to you again. I have no problem with scifi movies that make up scientific theories and defy real life science principals. However, these fictional and nonfictional scientific theories should be consistently followed or broken within the movie universe of the story that is being told. One movie that violated these rules many years ago was Superman 3. It is the only Superman movie where exposure to green Kryptonite had no fatal impact on the man of steel. That movie completely contradicted the science of that universe and there was no rational explanation for why Superman was not hurt and killed by his exposure. It's no coincidence that many superman fans including Bryan Singer act as if that film never happened.

Interesting. And yet Bryan Singer himself screwed with the kryptonite rules in his SR. Superman was able to lift a four-mile landmass laced with kryptonite despite having a shard of kryptonite still embedded in his body -- please don't try to tell me that hovering in front of the sun for a few seconds was enough to overcome that. Interesting also that SR broke the rules in having Krypton explode into large pieces that could be seen from earth, rather than blown to untraceable bits as in the first movie. It appears the rules can be bent and broken without consequence if you are Bryan Singer. Nice try, but no points this time.

I think you completely missed my point. Of course sound was added for dramatic impact but, it was still an unspoken rule that the average person can understand. Lucas even addressed this rule in one of his interviews 10 to 12 years ago. I have no problem with sound being heard in those space battles because it was consistently heard!!!

I'm sure the 'average person' is entirely unaware that sound does not travel through the vacuum of space and that, therefore, explosions are not audible. I'm not sure it's always there in every space movie, so your consistency claim is unproven.

I already addressed most of this in the above posts but, I'm amazed that you still don't know what I and many other haters thought was inconsistent in X3. In scientific terms Wolverine's power ugrade at the end was absurd. There is no rational explanation for how he was able to heal at the same rate that chunks of flesh were being ripped off.

I'm not just talking about scientific inconsistensies that bothered me. I had a problem with plot elements introduced in X3 that were detrimental to what happened in the previous movies:

The deaths of Xavier and Cyclops makes Jean's sacrifice at the end of X2 trivial.

The realization of Xavier being a manipulative bastard contradicts all of his morals and principals in the previous two films.

Magneto in X3 lacked the vision and tactics utilized by the one in X1 and X2. X3's Magneto completely destroys all the respect I had for the character.

I see. Aside from the Wolverine healing, none of the above is really to do with science. I also don't think chunks of flesh came off Wolverine, it was more like superficial pieces of skin and some underlying tissue most of the time. I think your problem with this is more to do with it being Wolverine in that scene in that particular scenario. All the self-healers in this franchise (Wolverine, Sabretooth, Deathstrike) appear to be fairly invulnerable to harm - I watched Wolverine take a massive pounding from Deathstrike and survive and continue fighting with no real pause for recovery despite vital internal organs being sliced and diced. I'm more inclined to believe he could carry on with bits of skin flying off than I am to believe that Wolverine continued through Deathstrike's vicious assault (and that Sabretooth simply roared and carried on after all six of Wolverine's claws plunged into his vital organs). Given those circumstances, a bit of surface tissue flying off seems like nothing.

Furthermore, Xavier's 'dark side' is a very present part of his comicbook mythology (for instance, in Deadly Genesis) - and it was also part of the movies in as much as he knew all about Stryker and Wolverine's past (as intimated in X2). In the very early comics he apparently died, and for two years was in hiding apparently preparing to fight an alien race - this man is not so perfect that he doesn't hide things and deceive people when he believes it's right.

I would also argue that Magneto did show vision and tactics. He instantly realised the opportunity presented by Callisto, in being able to locate Mystique; he instantly realised the electromagnetic anomaly sensed by Callisto as Jean's power fully unleashed and instantly realised the potential opportunity of getting Phoenix on his side, knowing he had a chance to 'win her over' if she now had no mental blocks and did not want to be held back.

I find nothing wrong with those aspects of 'fleshing out' the history and background of the characters and of the divergent ideals of Xavier and Magneto over mutation and mutant potential.

I will agree that the deaths of Cyclops and Xavier were, at the very least, daring plot points. Phoenix did fight against Cyclops and Xavier in the comics, but not with those consequences. I'm not sure how Xavier's fate should have been handled - the focus on here has been on Cyclops. For Xavier to re-cage the beast seems a bit anticlimactic, for him to be put into a coma seems like a repeat of previous movies.

I already addressed this. I have no problem with time travel that is conveniently consistent.

I see. Good for you.

Stanger things have happened in this world then a criminal mind inheriting a fortune. Darth already gave an explanation for how it could happen. To prevent the family from freezing the assets all Lex needs to do is call up the ACLU. That organization will fight for anyone. They have defended terrorists, racists, and pedophiles(NAMBLA North American Man Boy Love Association) I doubt they would have a moral problem representing an evil criminal mind in a court of law. That family in Superman Returns would have needed the best damn lawyers in the nation to keep that money away from Lex.

I've no knowledge of the ACLU nor of NAMBLA - I'll attribute those to the same American excess that inflicted a dreadful show with Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie on me last night, and which i switched off after ten minutes and would like to personally ship back to the USA as the most inane, self-absorbed drivel ever to be on a TV screen. However, given the Anna Nicole Smith case, i doubt it would be that simple for the world's greatest criminal to walk away with millions from the Vanderworth woman.

Yes that is true but, Bond is still just an action hero. Many of those sci-fi elements came later in the series. The books Casino Royal, Dr. No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger, and Thunderball had very few of the elements you mentioned above.

James Bond still manages to get his own section on SuperheroHype! As a spy, he is bound to have gadgets which veer on the impossible - i can hear my mother's howls of laughter when, in much younger days, we saw a James Bond movie in which he managed to assemble an autogyro from the back of his car as another car pursued him (and was earlier not that far behind him). Bond thrives on the improbable. Some of the scenes in Casino Royale were equally implausible and got a lot of laughter (possibly unintentional) in the cinema.

My mind is always working differently when I watch different movies. When I watch comedies I expect to laugh. When I watch horrors my expectations are completely lowered. When I watch action films I simply expect to get an adrenaline rush from the action sequences. When I watch dramas I expect to be touched emotionally. When I watch Sci-fi movies I expect to get an adrenaline rush from the action sequences but, I also expect to see science being represented in a way that is creative, unique, interesting, and sometimes fictional.

It doesn't always work that nicely and neatly. Just look at the prison break scene in X2 - it does look stylish and cool (and attempts to avoid the comicbook version's absurd control of the natural iron content in the blood are to be commended) but it is highly questionable. A man is injected with a huge solution of metallic iron, suffers no ill effects (??!!), only briefly sets off a scanning machine (which then returns to normal!!??) and yet can be easily detected by Magneto. A friend who is a chemist (with some specialisation in metals) was furious over that scene and thought it was a violation of science!!!

All of this shows your inability to understand the legitimate reasons I and many other X3 haters have for hating this film.

You have reasons, that's for sure. The legitimacy of some of them is exactly why I am arguing.

 

[X-Maniac]

^ I completley disagree.

I think the Astral plane would of fit very well into the "realism" of this Science fiction world.

Besides no one complained abou how unrealistic the Danger Room or Sentinels were.

Edit- Hell the Astral plane was almost practically in the movie, with all the Telepathy going on and all.

It can be argued Xavier went into it when traveling from one body to the other.

No mention has been made of any 'astral plane' in the movies, nor have we seen any characters on it. The scenes with Xavier in X2 during the mind-control were illusions. On the astral plane, Xavier walks and characters have weapons and armour rather than their mutant powers. So, no, there has been no astral plane so far. We've never even heard much telepathic communication - not of the direct talking kind. Bryan Singer didn't like that, so he made the psychic powers much more about picking up 'impressions' and mind-control.

 

[X-Maniac]

When you ask nitpicky questions like this I wonder why you constantly accuse me of being nitpicky. First, I don't understand why you questioned the reason the X-Men decided not to turn the machine off. Jean stated that the professor and everyone he was connected to could be killed. It didn't happen when Magneto stopped the machine but, it was still a possibility.

Secondly, how do you know all the generators in that room where Jean and Scott fought were all destroyed. Remember that mystique said a large portion of the dam's energy was being used for cerebro but, not all.

Finally, how do you know that was the only room of generators. There could have been another room or rooms.





Yes, but the X-Men could use his help and Nightcrawler knew he would be accepted at the X-Mansion. This is nitpicky.



Did the X-Men have anything else to loose at this point? They already lost the X-Mansion, didn't know where Cyclops/Xavier were, and we are unaware whether they knew what happened to the X-kids. Working with Magneto and Mystique made a lot of sense to me. Nitpicky



I guess you didn't realize this would contradict your first nitpick before you posted it.



Already addressed.



Like I said before we have no idea whether any of the X-Men had the means to contact the X-kids. Did you think the movie really need a scene where Logan, Storm, and Jean all agreed that the X-kids could or could not be contacted? Nitpicky.

Yes, I was being nitpicky. But those are genuine questions that have been raised by people, some of them in critic reviews of the movie. And, yes, I did think the movie needed a scene - at least some dialogue - about the state of the mansion and the kids who fled with Colossus. Something like 'Peter's with the rest of the children, he says they are okay' with some concern shown by Storm and Jean over their pupils. I did think Magneto and Mystique went along with the X-Men in a very casual way, with no-one raising any objections or concerns - this could have been solved with a line or two of dialogue. After all, Magneto was prepared to kill Rogue previously - though we did at least see that she hadn't forgotten that when she took off her glove and wanted to tackle him. Wolverine and his fiery temper would most certainly not have forgotten what Magneto had done in X1. It might have served us better than the part with Mystique seducing Wolverine, which was fairly redundant to the story structure.

 

[chaseter]

X3 film watch day 270...the movie still sucks.

 

[Angamb]

I want to finish the novel to see then the film again. I want to see it one time in the original language, maybe I like it a litte more, hehe. when I see some caps from the movie, I have the feeling that all are new moments, or imagine other rithym of the scene, slow, where the characters take their time, to think, to speak, etc. If at least all the scenes were a little longer, just like they are, no more dialogue, or action, but more silences.... the film would be much better.

 

[BMM]

I don't think the astral plain would have been much of a stretch, particularly since such a place has been otherwise depicted in X-Men and X2. Also, Xavier's psychic self has been shown, including his ability to walk, etc. as he does when he is probing Senator Kelly's mind. Regardless, of all the scenes in the movie that I think need fixing, I don't think the Jean Grey v. Xavier sequence is really one of them. Although, I do think a psychic confrontation between Jean Grey/Phoenix and Xavier (a la Xavier in Senator Kelly's mind in X-Men) could have provided for some interesting moments.

 

[Theweepeople]

Interesting. And yet Bryan Singer himself screwed with the kryptonite rules in his SR. Superman was able to lift a four-mile landmass laced with kryptonite despite having a shard of kryptonite still embedded in his body -- please don't try to tell me that hovering in front of the sun for a few seconds was enough to overcome that. Interesting also that SR broke the rules in having Krypton explode into large pieces that could be seen from earth, rather than blown to untraceable bits as in the first movie. It appears the rules can be bent and broken without consequence if you are Bryan Singer. Nice try, but no points this time.

What a suprise. X-Maniac once again tries to make himself feel better about his opinion of X3 by coming up with another ridiculous criticism of X1 or X2. That above example was refuted sometime last July by multiple people including myself. I remember you asking this same question to me months ago. You really need to get that short term memory of yours fixed.

First, Superman was able to lift the landmass because he wasn't exposed to the kyrptonite until it came through the bottom a few moments before it was released into space. Secondly, Louis Lane pulled the piece of kryptonite out of Superman's body that Lex had stabbed him with. If there was any kryptonite still inside Superman the particles may have been too small to have a fatal impact on his health. Even humans can tolerate exposure to some poisens in low concentrations(Mecury, Lead, and Arsenic).

Your last complaint is very amusing. A friend of mine who bought the Superman Returns DVD told me about a deleted scene that addresses this issue. Lex Luther got his henchmen to plant false information about the status of Krypton in hands of astronomers. Once Superman heard about his information he took off on a quest to find Krypton. All of your complaints have been refuted again. That was fun.t:

I'm sure the 'average person' is entirely unaware that sound does not travel through the vacuum of space and that, therefore, explosions are not audible. I'm not sure it's always there in every space movie, so your consistency claim is unproven.

I can't believe you won't let this argument die. You can say that my consistency claim is unproven until you're blue in the face but, nothing you say can erase the fact that in every Star trek and Star Wars movie we hear sound in space.

I see. Aside from the Wolverine healing, none of the above is really to do with science. I also don't think chunks of flesh came off Wolverine, it was more like superficial pieces of skin and some underlying tissue most of the time. I think your problem with this is more to do with it being Wolverine in that scene in that particular scenario. All the self-healers in this franchise (Wolverine, Sabretooth, Deathstrike) appear to be fairly invulnerable to harm - I watched Wolverine take a massive pounding from Deathstrike and survive and continue fighting with no real pause for recovery despite vital internal organs being sliced and diced. I'm more inclined to believe he could carry on with bits of skin flying off than I am to believe that Wolverine continued through Deathstrike's vicious assault (and that Sabretooth simply roared and carried on after all six of Wolverine's claws plunged into his vital organs). Given those circumstances, a bit of surface tissue flying off seems like nothing. .

A bit of surface tissue flying off? Did you not notice part of Wolverine's adamantium skeleton in the final scene with the phoenix? Also, Jean may have been trying to disintegrate Wolverine's internal organs while she was ripping off his skin. Wolverine not wincing and showing no fatigue while parts of his body are being disintegrated is totally inconsistent with all his previous fight scenes in X1, X2, and most of X3. He should have at least fainted while in the presence of Jean. That pathetic spike man(Class1 or 2) appeared to cause more damage to Wolverine's body than the most powerful mutant(Class 5) on the planet. It's sad that you and many X3 lovers still believe Wolverine had a greater chance of survival against the most powerful mutant on the planet than all the other characters he fought throughout the series. If you could come up with a scientific explaination for how Wolverine's power(Power to heal from extensive cellular and muscle damage) was able to outlast Jean's(Power to break the bonds between atoms. Atoms are much smaller than cells if you didn't know this.) I would greatly appreciate it. I would also, like to know why Jean didn't use her telepathy on Wolverine.


Wolverine fighting with no pause? There were moments where he and deathstrike took time to recover during their fight scene in X2. I agree that Sabertooth didn't appear to need any time to recover but, it is possible that he heals at a much faster rate than wolverine and since Sabertooth is not in any other films this comparison is trivial.

I would also argue that Magneto did show vision and tactics. He instantly realised the opportunity presented by Callisto, in being able to locate Mystique;.

Great vision by Magneto. He loses a friend(Mystique) in the process of finding her.

he instantly realised the electromagnetic anomaly sensed by Callisto as Jean's power fully unleashed and instantly realised the potential opportunity of getting Phoenix on his side, knowing he had a chance to 'win her over' if she now had no mental blocks and did not want to be held back.;.

More great vision by Magneto. He loses another friend(Xavier) in the process of finding Jean and finds out that gowing through all that trouble to add Jean to his brotherhood was a complete waste of time since he gets cured and loses his entire army.

However, given the Anna Nicole Smith case, i doubt it would be that simple for the world's greatest criminal to walk away with millions from the Vanderworth woman.

I never said it would be simple. I do know that a lawsuit being filed by the ACLU is typically bad news for whoever it is against.

James Bond still manages to get his own section on SuperheroHype! As a spy, he is bound to have gadgets which veer on the impossible - i can hear my mother's howls of laughter when, in much younger days, we saw a James Bond movie in which he managed to assemble an autogyro from the back of his car as another car pursued him (and was earlier not that far behind him). Bond thrives on the improbable. Some of the scenes in Casino Royale were equally implausible and got a lot of laughter (possibly unintentional) in the cinema.

I never said giving Bond a section on Superherohype was a good idea. He is not a superhero from my perspective. I have always laughed at all the times Bond thrives on the improbable. That is one of the reasons why I've never considered Bond to be a science fiction character. Yes, his stories have some sci-fi elements to them but, all of his adventures are meant to take place in our world. Bond never dies, goes to hell or heaven, and comes back again. He does not fight mutants or aliens from other planets. He's also, the only character on superherohype that does not ear a costume. James is nothing more than an action hero to me. John Maclaine and Martin Riggs are also pretty cool action heros like James who also thrive on the improbable but, the commonality of this one attribute does not qualify them as superheroes.

It doesn't always work that nicely and neatly. Just look at the prison break scene in X2 - it does look stylish and cool (and attempts to avoid the comicbook version's absurd control of the natural iron content in the blood are to be commended) but it is highly questionable. A man is injected with a huge solution of metallic iron, suffers no ill effects (??!!), only briefly sets off a scanning machine (which then returns to normal!!??) and yet can be easily detected by Magneto. A friend who is a chemist (with some specialisation in metals) was furious over that scene and thought it was a violation of science!!!

Why do you keep complaining about the same things in regards to X2 over and over again that were previously refuted by me? What evidence is there that the guard injected with that huge amount of metallic iron suffered no ill effects? We have no idea how much time passed in between the time he was injected and the time he sees Magneto. He told Magneto that he was suffering from a hangover so he was obviously feeling like crap. All Magneto did was speed up the inevitable. Of course the guard would have died eventually died from a toxic concentration from Iron in his blood. You are being nitpicky just for the sake of being nitpicky.

 

[Loganbabe]

edit

 

[Loganbabe]

Did you notice that Logan babe didn't reply to my post of me providing comic book history, the importance of characters, and the concept about the X-Men in general? She avoided it like the plague and knew she was exposed.

And maybe you didn´t notice I haven´t been answering any of your posts for ages. You´re ridiculously arrogant and a fraud, who only seem to repeat the same things over and over again, and never proved to me once that you have a vast knowledge about the X-Men. Maybe you are able to convince the "anti-Wolverine/X3 squad" around these "hate" threads with your diatribes, but you have to try a lot harder to convince me. "Importance of characters", "concept about the X-Men"...hah, any idiot can make researches about any subject on the internet these days and pose as an "expert". Haha. "Master"...

(Wolverine) was almost made the main character/leader in the Astonishing series until fans started yelling at Whedon for considering the possibility of killing off Cyclops

That´s the most ridiculous thing I´ve read for a long time, and I´ve read a lot of ridiculous things around here! Also proves your knowledge of comics is totally biased with your anti-Wolverine agenda. There was never, and I repeat, never, any possibilities of Joss Whedon killing off Cyke and making Wolverine main character/leader in Astonishing! Jesus, that´s SO ridiculous that you should be ashamed of yourself for posting things like this! If Joss ever had the remote, slightest project of an idea of killing Cyke, he would never make Logan leader! Kitty is the love of Whedon´s life, SHE is the main character, and the way he has been writing Wolverine proves he doesn´t care and doesn´t understand the character at all! Actually, I would LOVE to see Logan out of Astonishing, because Whedon is only recycling old and dumb cliches about him. Joss loves Cyke, Emma and Kitty, and that´s it.
See how fanboys like you, with pathetic anti-Wolverine agendas, can start false rumours?

 

[Loganbabe]

Not aknowledging the relevance of the G.I.Joe/Transformers analogy because she didn't care for it sort of tipped the hand. t:

I also noticed you "avoided my last post like the plague", as your friend LastSunrise likes to say...
Of course, if you don´t have much to say besides fanboyish stuff, why bother?

Apparently, the whole 'ongoing war between good and evil plus ensemble cast' similarities just couldn't be cared for in an argument regarding the importance of leader figures.

And apparently, my whole argumentation about the importance and meaning of brilliant non-leaders figures couldn´t be cared for because it came from my own mind and not from some Transformers/GI Joe material...

 

[LastSunrise1981]

And maybe you didn´t notice I haven´t been answering any of your posts for ages. You´re ridiculously arrogant and a fraud, who only seem to repeat the same things over and over again, and never proved to me once that you have a vast knowledge about the X-Men. Maybe you are able to convince the "anti-Wolverine/X3 squad" around these "hate" threads with your diatribes, but you have to try a lot harder to convince me. "Importance of characters", "concept about the X-Men"...hah, any idiot can make researches about any subject on the internet these days and pose as an "expert". Haha. "Master"...


That´s the most ridiculous thing I´ve read for a long time, and I´ve read a lot of ridiculous things around here! Also proves your knowledge of comics is totally biased with your anti-Wolverine agenda. There was never, and I repeat, never, any possibilities of Joss Whedon killing off Cyke and making Wolverine main character/leader in Astonishing! Jesus, that´s SO ridiculous that you should be ashamed of yourself for posting things like this! If Joss ever had the remote, slightest project of an idea of killing Cyke, he would never make Logan leader! Kitty is the love of Whedon´s life, SHE is the main character, and the way he has been writing Wolverine proves he doesn´t care and doesn´t understand the character at all! Actually, I would LOVE to see Logan out of Astonishing, because Whedon is only recycling old and dumb cliches about him. Joss loves Cyke, Emma and Kitty, and that´s it.
See how fanboys like you, with pathetic anti-Wolverine agendas, can start false rumours?

Actually I didn't start the false rumors at all. It was very well proven during the X3 release date and the continuing overexposure of Wolverine. Of course you're not going to admit it simply because you're a Logan fanatic.

I have proven my X-Men knowledge in an intelligent manner, but you chose to ignore it and not respond to my posts. But that's your problem not mine.

I have offered plenty of good reasons and important backstory about not only Cyclops, Storm, Colossus, Iceman, and Angel, but have even expressed my dismay at the watered down version that wil be the Wolverine solo film. Of course you don't seem to be familiar at all with his past involving Sabretooth, Silver Fox, Maverick, and Omega Red right? Seeing as how I MENTIONED THEM way before you came along with your defensive stance and rude attacks anytime someone mentions a negative aspect of Logan's overexposure.

Just because I'm not posting long diatribes of every issue number or every issue cover doesn't make me a false superhero X-Men fan. I offer my knowledge to the subject when I see someone who needs to be educated in the concept. Someone like you, who has no knowledge or understanding of the comics at all or the importance of each character shows very clearly. I'm not saying you're stupid nor am I saying you're worthless.

What I am saying is you don't understand these characters. You seem to be the fanatical Hugh Jackman fangirl who swoons at his very presence and could careless about the X-Men films. WE(the fans) care about the characters. We care about the stories, we've followed these stories and characters from the very beginning, and we want to see them done right. For example, Logan's depiction in X1/X2 was VERY faithful to the comic book character. I commend the writers and Singer for showing Logan for who he is and how that even though he's not a team player, he has the X-Men's best interest at heart.

Logan NEVER carried Xaviers dream. There is nothing in the comics or in the animated series that indicates that he wants to carry on Xaviers dream. That was the mistake that the writers of X3 made. The fact that they made him into a leader for the final battle is very blasphemous to the source material.

One more thing. Remember how you told me Logan doesn't respect Scott enough to do what he's told or to back off from the situation? Mind telling me why Logan doesn't respect Scott again? Or do I need to educate you in terms of the comics again?

 

[Loganbabe]

Actually I didn't start the false rumors at all. It was very well proven during the X3 release date and the continuing overexposure of Wolverine. Of course you're not going to admit it simply because you're a Logan fanatic.

Oh, now I want to read more about those rumors. Links please.
Maybe you didn´t start it, but it was certainly started by some Wolverine-hater who just wanted to make fanboys who already hate Wolverine hate him even more because he was going to take Cyke´s place.
In Astonishing, no less.
The one title where Logan´s participation is close to nothing.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

As I said, I don't hate Wolverine. I do enjoy the character, I love his story, and I think he's very original. But in terms of the mainstream media? He's overexposed into the X-Men's knight in shining armor and that's not what the character is about.

X1/X2 clearly displayed the comic book counterpart as being a loner, someone who is searching for the missing pieces of his past, and that while even though he may've found the answer he's still not satisfied. He doesn't feel he's quite there in terms of putting everything together.

As far as his solo movie is concerned? I want it to be good. I want to believe that they would get it right, but the stories involving his Weapon X creation and the stories outside of Weapon X are very dark, gritty, suspenseful, and shouldn't be watered down for the kiddies. It's going to be a watered down version of what it really is.

I would hope they do explore the beginnings with Sabretooth, Silver Fox, Omega Red, and of course maybe even introduce his relationship with Mariko. After she was poisoned by the Yakuza clan she begs Logan to end her life and after he does so, he becomes more emotionally distant. It's a very emotional scene and I hope they include the promise he made to Matsu'o Tsurayaba, which is on every anniversary of Mariko's death he will come to Matsuo' and slice off each body part until nothing is left.

There's so much material that it's impossible to make a great Logan film in my opinion. People misunderstand me when I say in terms of live action, Logan is overrated and overexposed, and his character isn't done justice at all in terms of they made him into WolvClops.

 

[Loganbabe]

Of course you don't seem to be familiar at all with his past involving Sabretooth, Silver Fox, Maverick, and Omega Red right?

Bwahahaha!
Man, you´re really saying this to a "Wolverine fanatic", as you call me?
Do you think any "Wolverine fanatic" would be satisfied by only watching the movies?
Wolverine´s essence is inside the comics, much more than the movies. There´s no contest; as much as I love movieverse Wolvie, Logan really comes alive as a character in the pages of the comic books.
Larry Hama is one particular hero of mine, for all the great things he gave the character. He gave him some of his more meaningful and poignant moments, like the mercy killing of Mariko and burying Silver Fox near the old cabin. His interaction with Jubilee and Elsie Dee...
I LOVE the comics, plain and simple. Especially the old ones.

One more thing. Remember how you told me Logan doesn't respect Scott enough to do what he's told or to back off from the situation? Mind telling me why Logan doesn't respect Scott again? Or do I need to educate you in terms of the comics again?

I didn´t say Logan doesn´t respect Scott. What I said is that Logan will follow his own instincts, and not only follow orders blindly just because Scott is leader of the team. And Scott respects it too. He counts on Logan to disrespect his orders sometimes and act based on instinct, because some situations demand so.
Deep down they understand each other. You can´t write Logan just following orders like a good boy, because it would be out of character. And he never worries about his own safety because he´s crazy like that, so he would never back off from facing the Phoenix (like in the chapter you wrote).

 

[Theweepeople]

Furthermore, Xavier's 'dark side' is a very present part of his comicbook mythology (for instance, in Deadly Genesis) - and it was also part of the movies in as much as he knew all about Stryker and Wolverine's past (as intimated in X2). In the very early comics he apparently died, and for two years was in hiding apparently preparing to fight an alien race - this man is not so perfect that he doesn't hide things and deceive people when he believes it's right.

I'm not questioning whether Xavier is perfect. I'm questionioning how hard it is to accept how drastically different his personality has changed from the end of X2 to the beginning and middle of X3. In X3 charles completely gives up on Scott, scolds Wolverine for criticizing his mental block decision that ended up creating the phoenix which lead to Scott's death, and he arrogantly tries to control Jean again!!! That is not the Xavier of the previous two X-Men films and the movie didn't give me enough time to accept all of these changes to Xavier's personalty because he gets killed 45 minutes into the film. The comic book example you mentioned is not a good comparison because there are a number of comics that show Xavier's gradual transition to the dark side. X3 was too short and disjointed for me to believe all the multiple personality changes for characters that happened in between X2 and X3.

These mischaracterizations reminded me of what happened when William Shatner directed Star Trek five. Here's what he did to some of the characters:

Chekov and Sulu looked lost and confused in a forest. Since when in the past were these two ever bad with directions.

Uhura looked sleazy and disgusting with her erotic dance on Nimbus III. Since when in the past did she have no class.

Scotty looked clumsy in one scene when he accidentally knocked himself out. Since when in the past was Scotty clumsy.


Here are the mischaracterizations that Ratner made:

Deleted scene of Beast reciting Shakespeare and sounding like a fool while doing it.

Wolverine sounding philosophical and more rational than Xavier.

Xavier sounding like a manipulative bastard.

Scott becoming rebellious and completely neglecting his duties.

Storm sounding *****y and coldhearted to those who disagree with her.

Magneto lacking leadership and tactical skills he had in the previous films.

Rogue giving up on her power so she could have sex with Bobby.

 

[ico]

Wow.

I have never been in this thread before, and decided to pop in just because it was one of the few threads that gets replies nowadays, and it's just full of arguments going back and forth.

Amusing.

 

[danoyse]

As far as his solo movie is concerned? I want it to be good. I want to believe that they would get it right, but the stories involving his Weapon X creation and the stories outside of Weapon X are very dark, gritty, suspenseful, and shouldn't be watered down for the kiddies. It's going to be a watered down version of what it really is.

I'm curious...exactly what *kiddies* are going to see this movie? Most of my friends have small kids (the oldest being almost 8), and while they all love their superheroes, none of them are allowed to see X-Men yet...mostly because of the Wolverine sequences.

The sequences in X1 and X2 were dark, gritty, and suspenseful, and nasty as hell. I think a full-out R-rated version of the original Weapon X story would play out more like a sequel to Hostel than an X-Men story, so I think keeping along the lines of what Bryan Singer did would work fine and be effectively creepy, even if it does wind up at PG-13. He made it work.

 

[danoyse]

Bwahahaha!
Man, you´re really saying this to a "Wolverine fanatic", as you call me?
Do you think any "Wolverine fanatic" would be satisfied by only watching the movies?
Wolverine´s essence is inside the comics, much more than the movies. There´s no contest; as much as I love movieverse Wolvie, Logan really comes alive as a character in the pages of the comic books.
Larry Hama is one particular hero of mine, for all the great things he gave the character. He gave him some of his more meaningful and poignant moments, like the mercy killing of Mariko and burying Silver Fox near the old cabin. His interaction with Jubilee and Elsie Dee...
I LOVE the comics, plain and simple. Especially the old ones.

Nice.