If you Don't like the movie - POST HERE

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I also noticed you "avoided my last post like the plague", as your friend LastSunrise likes to say...

I answered to the last post I saw while online. Relax.

Of course, if you don´t have much to say besides fanboyish stuff, why bother?

That's the whole point!!!!

I did not AVOID your post like the plague. I merely disregarded it because it was a goddamn diatribe of what YOU liked and thought of OUR world. You essentially transferred your own views to the Marvelverse.

Me, me, me.

The reason I didn't aknowledge as a point WITHIN THE MARVELVERSE is because, well, it, geez, lemme guess, it essentially ignore the core of the Marvelverse.

I'll put it bluntly, sister. Superhero comic books are essentially soap opera with fights. Sugarcoat it all you want, it still comes down to battles and mind-numbing statistically next-to-impossible drama.

Throw in all the social commentary or character studies you want and yet heroes will be out of work without villains around. The whole subtext of the Marvelverse is the eternal battle between good and evil.

Your views can't change that. Neither mine nor anyone's.

A rather SPECIFIC War defines the Marvelverse. Thus, military leaders either as field commanders or decision-makers are its most important players.

Rules here on Earth can't exactly be transferred to the Marvelverse just because you want them to. It's all about heroes and villains over there.

That would be like you saying poets and bards are the most important people in the LOTR universe rather than warriors.

And apparently, my whole argumentation about the importance and meaning of brilliant non-leaders figures couldn´t be cared for because it came from my own mind and not from some Transformers/GI Joe material...

See previous comment. It's not about YOU.

When arguing about the goddamn Marvelverse, the fundation of arguments shoulnd't come from anywhere but the Marvelverse.

And you still don't get the point of the G.I. Joe/Transformers analogy.

Those two embody war in its simplest form. The X-Men and every hero/villain are part of an ongoing war. Please tell me you get the CONNECTION.

EDIT: WAIT, Larry Hama is a PERSONAL HERO of yours and you diss the G.I.Joe analogy????!!!!! Please tell me the irony isn't lost on you. Too f****n funny. t:

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm curious...exactly what *kiddies* are going to see this movie? Most of my friends have small kids (the oldest being almost 8), and while they all love their superheroes, none of them are allowed to see X-Men yet...mostly because of the Wolverine sequences.

The sequences in X1 and X2 were dark, gritty, and suspenseful, and nasty as hell. I think a full-out R-rated version of the original Weapon X story would play out more like a sequel to Hostel than an X-Men story, so I think keeping along the lines of what Bryan Singer did would work fine and be effectively creepy, even if it does wind up at PG-13. He made it work.

Doesn't count. They're going to market it towards kiddies and the Wolverine film is going to suffer because of it. The sequences in X1/X2 were dark, gritty, and suspenseful. But there not as dark as the ACTUAL Wolverine story that comes with the character.

It's not going to work. The character has too deep of a story and as we all know, his story is a violent and dark one. First and foremost it needs to be Rated R. That's all there is to it. In order to do his Weapon X days faithfully the movie needs to be Rated R and I feel that's where Hugh is making a mistake. The studio will market it towards kids because it'll just be a mindless action film with little to no story. Kids nowadays want the big bang boom style of film with no story.

Hence why Epic Movie went to number one.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

That´s the most ridiculous thing I´ve read for a long time, and I´ve read a lot of ridiculous things around here! Also proves your knowledge of comics is totally biased with your anti-Wolverine agenda. There was never, and I repeat, never, any possibilities of Joss Whedon killing off Cyke and making Wolverine main character/leader in Astonishing! Jesus, that´s SO ridiculous that you should be ashamed of yourself for posting things like this! If Joss ever had the remote, slightest project of an idea of killing Cyke, he would never make Logan leader!

I did question that one too. See, we can agree on something once every decade.

Kitty is the love of Whedon´s life, SHE is the main character, and the way he has been writing Wolverine proves he doesn´t care and doesn´t understand the character at all!

Love of his life. *snorts in laughter*

I usually go for the raging hard-on crack, but for some reason, your take on it is even creepier. Nice. t:

And as for Asto-Wolvie, I'll agree Whedon doesn't exactly bother with specifics nor seem to care that much for Wolvie, but he does get the basic outline of the character.

I'll admit, he might've gone a bit over the top with the 'scared little boy' thingy from Torn, but the Wolvie from Gifted was, well, pure Wolvie.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Bwahahaha!
Man, you´re really saying this to a "Wolverine fanatic", as you call me?
Do you think any "Wolverine fanatic" would be satisfied by only watching the movies?
Wolverine´s essence is inside the comics, much more than the movies. There´s no contest; as much as I love movieverse Wolvie, Logan really comes alive as a character in the pages of the comic books.
Larry Hama is one particular hero of mine, for all the great things he gave the character. He gave him some of his more meaningful and poignant moments, like the mercy killing of Mariko and burying Silver Fox near the old cabin. His interaction with Jubilee and Elsie Dee...
I LOVE the comics, plain and simple. Especially the old ones.


I didn´t say Logan doesn´t respect Scott. What I said is that Logan will follow his own instincts, and not only follow orders blindly just because Scott is leader of the team. And Scott respects it too. He counts on Logan to disrespect his orders sometimes and act based on instinct, because some situations demand so.
Deep down they understand each other. You can´t write Logan just following orders like a good boy, because it would be out of character. And he never worries about his own safety because he´s crazy like that, so he would never back off from facing the Phoenix (like in the chapter you wrote).

Like a Logan fanatic you completely missed the point of my rewrite. Who said he was backing away from Phoenix out of fear? Who said he was blindly following Scotts orders?

If you actually READ the dialogue you would see that Logan actually QUESTIONS Scott's decision and his orders. I wrote the scene in which Scott again tells Logan that he needs to help Storm get people to safety, in which Logan see's that Scott is the only one who can stop Jean. Nice try though.

Again, you love the WOLVERINE COMICS. You don't seem to care about any of the other characters except for Logan anyways, so again I don't really buy your "love" for the comics words anyways. But whatever.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I didn´t say Logan doesn´t respect Scott. What I said is that Logan will follow his own instincts, and not only follow orders blindly just because Scott is leader of the team. And Scott respects it too. He counts on Logan to disrespect his orders sometimes and act based on instinct, because some situations demand so.
Deep down they understand each other.

And now to put things back on topic...

See, you just said it. Cyke and Wolvie understand and respect each other.

Hell, they're more or less the Yin to one another's Yang in a reluctant warrior/comrade-in-arms capacity. I'd actually go for the 'two sides of the same coin' analogy, but whatever.

We didn't get that in the movieverse.

If anything, movieverse Wolvie sort of LIKES people and stick around for... huh... well, he does so BECAUSE, it would seem.

Logan's dynamic with about every character was off and overexposure made it even worse.

 

[danoyse]

Doesn't count. They're going to market it towards kiddies and the Wolverine film is going to suffer because of it. The sequences in X1/X2 were dark, gritty, and suspenseful. But there not as dark as the ACTUAL Wolverine story that comes with the character.

It's not going to work. The character has too deep of a story and as we all know, his story is a violent and dark one. First and foremost it needs to be Rated R. That's all there is to it. In order to do his Weapon X days faithfully the movie needs to be Rated R and I feel that's where Hugh is making a mistake. The studio will market it towards kids because it'll just be a mindless action film with little to no story. Kids nowadays want the big bang boom style of film with no story.

Hence why Epic Movie went to number one.

You're not answering the question. Which "kiddies" are we talking about?

Like I've said before, the people I know with small kids love the superhero movies, but the little ones have been steered clear of that one and the X-Men movies for now.

Look at Batman Begins. That's PG-13, and it's no kids movie. Christian Bale has been asked the same question in interviews about a potential R-rated sequel, and his answer was the exact same as Hugh's. They can do one, but they're not going to.

I think an R-rated movie would be great, but I'm realistic. It's not going to happen. In fact, I think it would be box office suicide. But the reviews I've read of the script so far sound quite good (and most from people who did not like X3), and I'm looking forward to it. They do it right, it will be a good movie.

I'm more interested in that than it's rating.

 

[danoyse]

Again, you love the WOLVERINE COMICS. You don't seem to care about any of the other characters except for Logan anyways, so again I don't really buy your "love" for the comics words anyways. But whatever.

You don't buy her love for the comics, or because she doesn't "love" them the way you do?

 

[nite-owl]

To think it'll be probably over a year since the movie came out and were still talking about it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What he did in those scenes was terrorism. What he did with that bridge and that prison convoy were terrorism also, a show of power, showing he was not a person to be trifled with. In the Planet X storyline the bridge scene is derived from, he rips apart an entire city in a show of power.

Dont see how the prison convoy was terrorism when no one was around to see it and all the guards seemingly died. Anyway, the instances you mention in X1 he did what he needed to IMO. But honestly, what did the bridge re-location achieve other than to give Magneto's enemies access to the island if he had succeeded. Confiscating a tanker and flying his army accross on that would have been much more sensible. In the X1 train scene, he had to get inside the train to knock out Rogue, he knew other people would be there and may be tempted to stand up to him so he had to scare them into thinking otherwise. With the police he had to show them they could do nothing to him. Different circumstances IMO.

I've answered the question of Storm flying the jet and creating weather phenomena in another post above where i replied to BMM. I'm not going to repeat it here. Many people believe the tornado scene showed a power upgrade from X1, it's open to interpretation.

Well i thought in X1 she has to limit her powers because she didnt know were the other X-Men were.

It doesn't seem to work that way. I've seen you making all sorts of lengthy interpretations of parts of SR in the Superman forums - you love the movie, have watched it obsessively and so you 'get into it', you think about it deeply, you obsess over it, you read things into it, you end up almost worshipping it and defending its every syllable. If you don't like something and keep thinking about it, then you come up with new ways to justify why you didn't like it.

Wrong, i have criticisms of SR like i do any other movie, and have discussed them on that board. I dont need to justify why i dont like X3, the fact that most fans on here and critics didnt is enough to justify, for me, it was a poor attempt. And i dont sit there and think of why i hate the movie, they JUMP out at me everytime i have watched it. I'll tell you something, i have this thing were once i start watching a movie, whether i am enjoying it or not, i HAVE to watch it until the end unless something major interrupts, i dont know why, its just a little thing i have. Last time i watched X3, i turned it off, halfway through, that says it all to me.

It's plain that X3 was made by different writers and a different director to the first two movies. It's pretty obvious that X1 and X2 had different writers, but the same director (and more studio interference now Fox realised they had a hit on their hands). Those things create differences that are not really the fault of the people themselves. Bryan Singer makes things moody, dark, angst-ridden, emo, serious. Brett Ratner is much more colourful, less dark, less intensely brooding, more 'full-on'. The directors' personalities come out in their work. Brett was never going to make a movie exactly in the way that Bryan would, he tried to follow the story along but it's still his own 'take' on it. A director will not be a slave to someone else's style. What Brett did have was the enthusiasm and energy to get it done on time. Of course he's not the obvious choice for following on a franchise of two movies made by Bryan Singer - is that his fault??? But Bryan isn't God either, let's get that perfectly clear. It's just a movie and he's just a person.

Not sure what your trying to say here, this just looks like gibberish, sorry. I have always said Ratner isnt completely to blame for this, but he made enough bad decisions himself to take a fair share of it.

The power blackout hit the entire east coast - I would imagine the power company bosses would want to find out why it happened so they could fix any defects in the electricity supply (as they usually do whenever there is a blackout of any kind).

Maybe, but i'm sure once they found no defects they would just leave it, not sure on this one though its a fair point.

As for the will, which was signed behind closed doors and left nothing to Gertrude's blood relatives all standing outside, there would of course be repercussions and suspicions and probably legal action by the relatives. I mentioned Anna Nicole Smith, whose legal battle over a fortune left to her is well known - the papers have been full of it recently everywhere, as she recently died - surely you are aware of this?

I am aware of this, but there's a big difference between the two. ANS's was in the full public eye, and she was a supermodel who could have had any man she wanted. Anyone from the outside looking in could see she married him mainly for money. Lex's and Gertrude's obviously wasnt in the public eye, at least that's whats indicated in the movie, since the Daily Planet's top reporters didnt know about it. Lex had a witness anyway in Kitty that he had taken care of Gertrude.

A) Jean's powers were fluctuating through the movie. It's still a possibility that was not addressed

B) Correct - Storm's electrical disturbance blocked communication. It's still a possibility that an electrical disturbance might have stopped Cerebro just as Magneto's own electromagnetic waves did.

C) Mystique told us that a large portion of the dam's energy was being diverted to Cerebro. Cerebro needed its power from somewhere (never mind that the version of Cerebro in the mansion had no power source the size of a dam to run from!!! Where did the mansion version get its energy??). The dam's power obviously was in generators - which would have been within the dam structure. The dam had a 'generator room' where Jean and Cyclops fought - therefore the generators were in that room. Therefore, stopping the generators would stop Cerebro. Not that I'm complaining about Storm's arctic icestorm, but there were other possibilities that were not mentioned, explored or ruled out. The only possibility mentioned was a stupid one - Cyclops blasting the doors off, whch once again (like the 'Fry him' line) had the effect of making him look stupid.

A) It seemed to me in X2, the Pheonix powers only came to the fore when Jean was defending herself or one's she loved in desperate situations. I suppose you could say Dark Cerebro was a desperate situation, but since they had a way of stopping it anyway she wasnt needed.

B)Cant see Storm's electricity doing anything to DC myself.

C) True, but the damn had other functions than simply being a damn, maybe the generators in that room didnt control Cerebro. Also they had to shut down Cerebro in way that wouldnt kill the professor. Destorying the generators and shutting DC down in an unnatural way could kill Xavier.

Nightcrawler didn't have to go along with them. Neither did they have to take along Mystique or Magneto (though it's a good job they did). They had all the information from scanning Nightcrawler's mind. It was an alliance made fairly quickly with someone (Magneto) who had been far from friendly in the previous movie and who is never to be trusted. No one really showed any concern for the mansion or missing children, which was a shame.

Nightcrawler was now a national fugitive, he had to go along with them. Plus Magneto built Cerebro with Xavier, he may have known something the X-Men didnt about stopping it and Magneto wasnt going without Mystique.

I understand your disappointments, and share some of them. I never thought Singer was the perfect choice for X-Men or Superman, although he has a better (more careful, purposeful) film-making approach than Ratner. In my view, the ever-present producers like Shuler-Donner and Ralph Winter and Avi Arad, and Marvel's Stan Lee and Chris Claremont (who were both involved in a small way), should have all had greater influence on ensuring X3 was better.

I think if Singer had made X3 from the existing X3 script, he would not have included the mutant army or the two sides charging on Alcatraz, that's not his style (it would have been one-on-one battles of people sneaking around dark corridors as in the Statue of Liberty and Alkali Lake).

In a way it's perhaps a shame they didn't leave Phoenix out of X3 altogether and also write out Cyclops as leaving the team (as he did after Jean's death in the comics), and focus instead on the impact of the cure as it related to Angel and Beast and the others. Even Wolverine has an interesting role in the cure - if he were cured of his healing power, he'd die from the metal implantation that was done to him, as it's only his healing that keeps him alive. That way, Singer could have come in and done an X4 with Phoenix returning in it (and Cyclops coming back too). But we can't keep wishing for things that didn't happen.

If you understand my criticisms, why are we arguing? And i know Singer isnt the best director around but he is a damn good one, and his X3 would have been far better than what we got i am certain of that. But i agree with you about leaving Pheonix out, i wish they had done that and possibly i could have enjoyed the movie more then, knowing the Pheonix was still to come. Though i still would have had heavy criticisms of the movie.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

You don't buy her love for the comics, or because she doesn't "love" them the way you do?

I appreciate that there are people who feel the same way about these characters the way I do. But I don't just love one character and denounce the others importance.

I enjoy debating and talking with people about the importance of the source material. Logan babe, despite what she says, has no knowledge of what makes the comics important and why the source material should be respected. She is all about Logan and gets upset whenever someone says something "mean" about "her Logan".

She gets defensive about he negative comments involving Logan as if he was her mother.

As for your question about which kiddies the Wolverine film is going to cater to? Fox is going to cater towards the kiddies with the soccer moms. You can't use Batman Begins as an example, Christopher Nolan, David Goyer, and Bale put their foot down and demanded that the film be faithful to the source material in terms of the darkness, suspenseful, and gritty nature of it.

Fox, on the other hand, while they have the ultimate hard on for Wolverine. They wil make it the corny cliche' comic book film with little to no backstory and no intelligence. It would not surprise me if they turned this into a Blade: Trinity or Catwoman. I don't have faith in Fox's abilities anymore when it comes to adaptating material.

Bottom line? The Wolverine film will flop horribly and it won't be done right at all.

 

[gambitfire]

No mention has been made of any 'astral plane' in the movies, nor have we seen any characters on it. The scenes with Xavier in X2 during the mind-control were illusions. On the astral plane, Xavier walks and characters have weapons and armour rather than their mutant powers. So, no, there has been no astral plane so far. We've never even heard much telepathic communication - not of the direct talking kind. Bryan Singer didn't like that, so he made the psychic powers much more about picking up 'impressions' and mind-control.

I never said there was. Just that there might have seemed be.

Xavier could not travel into another body unless he did it through the Astral Plane. The movie doesn't establish that there doesn't exist one, so one can assume (with the proper comic book knowledge) that in order for him to get into the other body, he went through the Astral Plane.

Anyways it's no big deal, just a thought.

We never saw it being there, but it was never said it wasn't.


Now did you personally hear Singer say, *Mimicks Singer* I don't like the astral plane! ????

 

[X-Maniac]

I don't think the astral plain would have been much of a stretch, particularly since such a place has been otherwise depicted in X-Men and X2. Also, Xavier's psychic self has been shown, including his ability to walk, etc. as he does when he is probing Senator Kelly's mind. Regardless, of all the scenes in the movie that I think need fixing, I don't think the Jean Grey v. Xavier sequence is really one of them. Although, I do think a psychic confrontation between Jean Grey/Phoenix and Xavier (a la Xavier in Senator Kelly's mind in X-Men) could have provided for some interesting moments.

I'm not sure if the scene with Xavier inside Kelly's memories qualifies as the astral plane. It may do, I'm not sure.

I know there were some people who didn't realise what was going on when Xavier appeared in Kelly's chair and then stood up....but thats' today's average brainless moviegoer for you!

In the comics the astral plane is mostly a totally white environment, but not always. A difficult concept to bring to the screen without some explanation/exposition first - then it might work well in allowing Xavier to get out of the wheelchair and Patrick Stewart to have some proper fight scenes.

 

[X-Maniac]

First, Superman was able to lift the landmass because he wasn't exposed to the kyrptonite until it came through the bottom a few moments before it was released into space. Secondly, Louis Lane pulled the piece of kryptonite out of Superman's body that Lex had stabbed him with. If there was any kryptonite still inside Superman the particles may have been too small to have a fatal impact on his health. Even humans can tolerate exposure to some poisens in low concentrations(Mecury, Lead, and Arsenic).

Incorrect. There was a piece of the kryptonite remaining in Superman's flesh - it was removed in the hospital. Even some who really love the movie feel uneasy about this scene, as it implies that he lifted the four-mile landmass while he had kryptonite embedded in his body. The script itself describes it as a penetrating wound. Why Lex didn't shove it right into an obvious vital organ is down to Bryan Singer's attempt at Christian symbolism in the stabbing being somewhat like the Holy Spear (also known as the Spear of Destiny, Holy Lance, Lance of Longinus, Spear of Longinus or Spear of Christ) being thrust into Jesus's side on the cross. Except the Spear of Longinus caused a deep wound with blood and fluid pouring out (it would have killed Jesus if he weren't already dead), and Superman had no bleeding. Either way, a shard of kryptonite remained in Superman's body until he was in the hospital.

His ability to triumph over that is a 'movie moment' that is meant to show superheroic behaviour defying science and the odds. Just as with Wolverine approaching Phoenix. He was defying the odds, she was allowing him to do so. His flesh healed no more quickly than the flesh wound we first saw at the start of X1 (after Sabretooth's ambush). His vital organs were encased in an adamantium-coated rib cage which she hadn't yet (or couldn't yet) started to unravel on a molecular level. Simple.

Your last complaint is very amusing. A friend of mine who bought the Superman Returns DVD told me about a deleted scene that addresses this issue. Lex Luther got his henchmen to plant false information about the status of Krypton in hands of astronomers. Once Superman heard about his information he took off on a quest to find Krypton. All of your complaints have been refuted again. That was fun.t:

This is as amusing as it is painfully and utterly incorrect. Superman went to explore the remains of his homeworld, which he described as a 'graveyard' upon his return. The existence of the remains is not a lie, as he went to find them. The deleted sequence of Krypton exploration (not on the DVD but available as concept art released on this board and other places) showed his ship travelling among massive pieces of kryptonite-laced rock. Those involved with the movie said they altered the concept of Krypton's explosion for this movie, instead deciding it blew into chunks, rather than being atomised and leaving an empty space - this is because they decided the red sun did not explode as previously shown, in a classic supernova blast, but that it blew up in an uncharacteristic manner that irradiated Kypton's core and led to Krypton exploding and shattering into large pieces.
Thus, the previous ideas about the destruction of the planet were revised by Bryan Singer in order for this movie to include the idea of Superman exploring the planet's remains. t: t: t:

I can't believe you won't let this argument die. You can say that my consistency claim is unproven until you're blue in the face but, nothing you say can erase the fact that in every Star trek and Star Wars movie we hear sound in space.

I don't care. The basic science is incorrect. That's my point. Yours is that this is okay as long as they are consistent in showing this flagrant inaccuracy. That's not my view, it's yours, just so we are clear.

A bit of surface tissue flying off? Did you not notice part of Wolverine's adamantium skeleton in the final scene with the phoenix? Also, Jean may have been trying to disintegrate Wolverine's internal organs while she was ripping off his skin. Wolverine not wincing and showing no fatigue while parts of his body are being disintegrated is totally inconsistent with all his previous fight scenes in X1, X2, and most of X3. He should have at least fainted while in the presence of Jean. That pathetic spike man(Class1 or 2) appeared to cause more damage to Wolverine's body than the most powerful mutant(Class 5) on the planet. It's sad that you and many X3 lovers still believe Wolverine had a greater chance of survival against the most powerful mutant on the planet than all the other characters he fought throughout the series. If you could come up with a scientific explaination for how Wolverine's power(Power to heal from extensive cellular and muscle damage) was able to outlast Jean's(Power to break the bonds between atoms. Atoms are much smaller than cells if you didn't know this.) I would greatly appreciate it. I would also, like to know why Jean didn't use her telepathy on Wolverine.

Surface tissue flying off is quite different to having adamantium blades shoved into vital organs by Deathstrike, from which he speedily recovered. I'm quite content to believe he can heal superficially in the same way he is shown healing superficially previously, especially when his vital organs are intact.

As for why she didn't use her telepathy, maybe she didn't want to! She was watching with interest as this lesser being dared to approach someone so apparently limitless, even omnipotent.

Wolverine fighting with no pause? There were moments where he and deathstrike took time to recover during their fight scene in X2. I agree that Sabertooth didn't appear to need any time to recover but, it is possible that he heals at a much faster rate than wolverine and since Sabertooth is not in any other films this comparison is trivial.

I don't recall there were breaks in the Deathstrike/Wolverine battle. You make it sound like a wrestling match where they went off into corners for a rubdown with a towel and a drink of water. It was a full-on unflinching attack. No one paused to have a cup of coffee or take a toilet break.

Great vision by Magneto. He loses a friend(Mystique) in the process of finding her.



More great vision by Magneto. He loses another friend(Xavier) in the process of finding Jean and finds out that gowing through all that trouble to add Jean to his brotherhood was a complete waste of time since he gets cured and loses his entire army.

None of those consequences negates the original opportunistic intent he had in seeing the potential advantages. As in the prior movies, he doesn't succeed with his plans and things do not go according to plan, and that's because <dramatic pause> he's the baddie! Ta-dah!

I never said it would be simple. I do know that a lawsuit being filed by the ACLU is typically bad news for whoever it is against.

The movie glossed over it, that's the point. It already seemed convenient and improbable, and this was exacerbated by the way the movie whizzed past this question mark.

I never said giving Bond a section on Superherohype was a good idea. He is not a superhero from my perspective. I have always laughed at all the times Bond thrives on the improbable. That is one of the reasons why I've never considered Bond to be a science fiction character. Yes, his stories have some sci-fi elements to them but, all of his adventures are meant to take place in our world. Bond never dies, goes to hell or heaven, and comes back again. He does not fight mutants or aliens from other planets. He's also, the only character on superherohype that does not ear a costume. James is nothing more than an action hero to me. John Maclaine and Martin Riggs are also pretty cool action heros like James who also thrive on the improbable but, the commonality of this one attribute does not qualify them as superheroes.

The fact remains that Bond movies do include sc-fi and do include pieces of improbable science or logic.

Why do you keep complaining about the same things in regards to X2 over and over again that were previously refuted by me? What evidence is there that the guard injected with that huge amount of metallic iron suffered no ill effects? We have no idea how much time passed in between the time he was injected and the time he sees Magneto. He told Magneto that he was suffering from a hangover so he was obviously feeling like crap. All Magneto did was speed up the inevitable. Of course the guard would have died eventually died from a toxic concentration from Iron in his blood. You are being nitpicky just for the sake of being nitpicky.

If the guard was hungover, it would most likely have been the next day. It's still a scientific stretch that anyone could survive with all that metallic iron clogging their bloodstream. And you never answered why the machine detected metal, then did not detect metal? I personally did not like Magneto's overly casual awareness of the metal and instant knowledge of it being Mystique's handiwork - it was rather too slick, vague and casual. As vague and casual as Jean's failing to stop the second missile, as vague and casual as Magneto and the X-Men joining forces with no harsh words or threats, as vague and casual as no one caring about the welfare of the kids who escaped at the mansion, as vague and casual as Magneto being the only one who knew Nightcrawler had teleported into a tree to eavesdrop on the conversation. A lot of unspoken assumptions going on. Many things done for convenience, pacing or just coolness. Which is what many say about X3.

The bottom line is that you really don't like it that Bryan Singer didn't do X3. Don't you think at least some of your hate should be directed at Bryan himself for leaving the franchise?

 

[Theweepeople]

Incorrect. There was a piece of the kryptonite remaining in Superman's flesh - it was removed in the hospital. Even some who really love the movie feel uneasy about this scene, as it implies that he lifted the four-mile landmass while he had kryptonite embedded in his body.

Well, I agree that this makes me feel uneasy however, I have explanation for this. That piece of kryptonite that Luther found in the museum could have been a piece that arrived on earth from the explosion of Krypton. Therefore, as a result of Krypton's explosion its properties would be altered and it's effects on superman could be slightly different. I haven't read too many superman comics or seen many smallville episodes but, I always believed that the other few traces of Krypton that were scattered around the earth broke off Superman's ship in earth's atmosphere when he first arrived as a baby. The properties of this Krypton could be slightly different because the source of it's environment is unique to the other source of Kyrpton affected by the explosion.

Why Lex didn't shove it right into an obvious vital organ is down to Bryan Singer's attempt at Christian symbolism in the stabbing being somewhat like the Holy Spear (also known as the Spear of Destiny, Holy Lance, Lance of Longinus, Spear of Longinus or Spear of Christ) being thrust into Jesus's side on the cross.

Lex didn't want the Kryptonite to instantly kill Superman. He wanted to see Superman suffer like most archenemies of superheroes want to see. Another one of your nitpicky complaints.

Just as with Wolverine approaching Phoenix. He was defying the odds, she was allowing him to do so. His flesh healed no more quickly than the flesh wound we first saw at the start of X1 (after Sabretooth's ambush).

Accept in all of those scenes in X1 Wolverine looks fatigued and gets knocked out by a Class 2 or 3 mutant(Sabertooth). Then he faints twice after being touched by Rogue(Class 1 or Class 2 mutant) but, in X3 he doesn't even wince in the presence of a Class 5 mutant? Could you at least come up with some bullcrap explanation for how Wolverine got a ridiculous power ugrade in X3? Regardless of you say I won't accept it but, at least humor me for once.

His vital organs were encased in an adamantium-coated rib cage which she hadn't yet (or couldn't yet) started to unravel on a molecular level. Simple.

If Jean's power works on the atomic level of breaking down the chemical bonds between atoms then it would not matter whether his vital organs were encased in adamantium. The adamantium would be destroyed. I know my theory about the way Jean's power works is right or she wouldn't be able to make all traces of her victims disappear. If all the atoms in my body instantly lost their translational, rotational, and vibrational energetic characterstics all the atomic bonds would be destroyed, I would turn into energy and, my body would disappear.

This is as amusing as it is painfully and utterly incorrect. Superman went to explore the remains of his homeworld, which he described as a 'graveyard' upon his return. The existence of the remains is not a lie, as he went to find them. The deleted sequence of Krypton exploration (not on the DVD but available as concept art released on this board and other places) showed his ship travelling among massive pieces of kryptonite-laced rock. Those involved with the movie said they altered the concept of Krypton's explosion for this movie, instead deciding it blew into chunks, rather than being atomised and leaving an empty space - this is because they decided the red sun did not explode as previously shown, in a classic supernova blast, but that it blew up in an uncharacteristic manner that irradiated Kypton's core and led to Krypton exploding and shattering into large pieces.
Thus, the previous ideas about the destruction of the planet were revised by Bryan Singer in order for this movie to include the idea of Superman exploring the planet's remains. t: t: t:

Excuse me, but the only thing I was arguing against was the thing you said about astronomers being able to see chunks of Kryptonite from space. Luther was the one who planted that false information and I trust my source about his information because he is usually 99% right about comic book information. I never said Superman didn't go to look for Krypton. On the other hand, I agree with everything else stated in the above post and I still don't fault Singer for any of the changes he made that contradicted things in Superman 1 and 2. Those previous Superman movies were made in a much different time(Over 25 years ago!!!) where these films weren't taken as seriously. The Salkinds made it virtually impossible for Donner to make the films he wanted to make. Of course any future Superman movies that continued in the same timeline as Donner's movies would have plotholes. The only thing I can find fault in Singer is his decision to not start the franchise over. That would have been the best thing but, Singer did feel some pressure from many fans who didn't want a restart.

I don't care. The basic science is incorrect. That's my point. Yours is that this is okay as long as they are consistent in showing this flagrant inaccuracy. That's not my view, it's yours, just so we are clear.

I'm glad you don't care. Now this pointless dialogue I'm having with you about this topic can finally end.

Surface tissue flying off is quite different to having adamantium blades shoved into vital organs by Deathstrike, from which he speedily recovered. I'm quite content to believe he can heal superficially in the same way he is shown healing superficially previously, especially when his vital organs are intact.

I already covered this but, in case you don't know it is more damaging to the human body when organs are damaged on an atomic level than cellular damage.

As for why she didn't use her telepathy, maybe she didn't want to! She was watching with interest as this lesser being dared to approach someone so apparently limitless, even omnipotent.

All your explanation does is open up another opporturnity to bash the numerous inconsistencies of X3. I know we already covered this but, Jean not using her telepathy on anyone else besides Xavier contradicts your belief that Jean joined forces simply so she could be free.

Free to use her powers? She barely used them after she kills Xavier with the exceptions of the scene in the forest when she taunts Magneto and the final scenes at Al-catraz where she inexplicably starts randomly killing people.

Free to use her telekinetic powers but, not her telepathic powers? It's strange but, maybe that's what the writers were suggesting because Jean does not appear to use her telepathetic powers at all after she kills Xavier. Or maybe all of Jeans scenes suffered from horrible writing and bad filmmaking.

Could you explain to me what motivated Jean to join forces with Magneto again?

I don't recall there were breaks in the Deathstrike/Wolverine battle. You make it sound like a wrestling match where they went off into corners for a rubdown with a towel and a drink of water. It was a full-on unflinching attack. No one paused to have a cup of coffee or take a toilet break.

I guess you don't remember the scene after Deathstrike cuts Wolverine a few times, knocks him down, and even gives him time to regain his composure while his wounds heal. I guess you also forgot about the scene where Wolverine stabs Deathstrike with both claws in the stomach and let's her start to heal while she pulls both of his claws out. Both Wolverine and Deathstrike could have continued attacking during these scenes but, they both paused because they were suprised at each other's durability.

None of those consequences negates the original opportunistic intent he had in seeing the potential advantages.. As in the prior movies, he doesn't succeed with his plans and things do not go according to plan, and that's because <dramatic pause> he's the baddie! Ta-dah!.

What a surprise. You conviently forgot about the comparisons I made for all of Magneto's accomplishments and failure in the movies during that 7 day debate we had. The difference between X3's Magento and the one of the previous films is that X1 and X2's Magneto accomplished a lot more with few resources.

X1: Magneto was a low level mutant terrorist commited his first terrorist acts. He scared the hell out of a lot of people. Was a few seconds away from turning some of the world leaders into mutants. Since Senator Kelly was the only one who died from the mutantion Jean could have been wrong about her position on what happens to other humans exposed to the radiation. Besides, Magneto is a scientist and could have made adjustments to his machine to get it to work better next time if all of the people exposed died. I'm impressed with X1's Magneto because he accomplished everything with a few henchmen.

X2: Magneto is even more impressive in X2. Magneto was in prison for half of the movie yet, he was able to come up with a plan out of nowhere that probably resulted in the deaths of many humans around the world and he accomplished this with one brotherhood member. I know you are going to say something ridiculous again like your trademark saying "There's no evidence that this happened because we didn't literally see it happen" when the movie had no time to show these events. I expected to see the impact of these events in X3. I was disappointed beyond my wildest imagination.

X3: Magneto is totally unimpressive in this film. He is partially responsible for the loss of a longtime brotherhood member. Is somewhat responsible for the death of a lifelong nemesis and friend who he respected. He fails to get the most powerful mutant on the planet to do anything useful for his brotherhood. He wastes an entire army on a pharmaceutical raid. Finally, he embarrasingly looses his power and His masterplan never made much sense. Please give me a laugh by refreshing my memory of what his plan was again.

The movie glossed over it, that's the point. It already seemed convenient and improbable, and this was exacerbated by the way the movie whizzed past this question mark.

The movie was freaking 2 hours and 30 minutes. It didn't need another story to be added. If anything it needed to be shorter and you know it. You're being nitpicky again for the sake of being nitpicky.

The fact remains that Bond movies do include sc-fi and do include pieces of improbable science or logic.?

You are becoming increasingly repetitive and redundant with this topic. Just give up if you can't come up with anything new and inciteful.

If the guard was hungover, it would most likely have been the next day. It's still a scientific stretch that anyone could survive with all that metallic iron clogging their bloodstream.?

This is another one of your sad and desperate attempts to find something wrong with Singer's films. Even if it was the next day we still don't know how much time had passed between the time he was injected and the time he saw Magneto. The guard could have been injected at midnight, crashed for 2 and a half hours and gone to work. We have no idea what shift he works on so your speculations are trivial.

And you never answered why the machine detected metal, then did not detect metal?

Yes, I have answered this question before.

Explanation 1: There may have been a glitch in the system the second time it failed to detech the metal.

Explanation 2: The concentration of metal injected in the guard was just above the threshold magneto needed for his powers to be effective and just barely below the threshold of metal the machine could detech. I've worked with machines(FTIR, GFAA, HPLC, AA) in labs that detech the concentrations of metals in the air, solids, and solutions. All of these machines typically have a + and - error range. This would explain how the machine in X2 deteched metal the first time and not the other.

I personally did not like Magneto's overly casual awareness of the metal and instant knowledge of it being Mystique's handiwork - it was rather too slick, vague and casual.

Give me a break. Magneto is an evil genius and had been working with Mystique for years. Magneto and Mystique could have easily thought up escape plan scenarios for both of their captures. Mystique showed she could sneak into the X-Mansion undetected X1. Of course Magneto would know almost instantly that it was Mystique's handiwork.

. As vague and casual as Jean's failing to stop the second missile,.

What was so vague about that? She showed that she had problem's controlling her powers in X1 and at the start of X2. It's possible that she lost control of them while trying to stop the second missile.

After seeing this answer you will probably ask "well why didn't Storm and Jean try to slow the X-Jet down with their powers." My answer to why Jean didn't use her powers is above. As for Storm she may have been trying to use them to slow the X-Jet down. However this would have been extremely difficult because she had to try and control the air pressure inside the jet as a result of the hole just to keep everyone inside conscious at the same time she was trying to steady the jet with an outside wind. Doing this could have been close to impossible for her. Jean would have had to use her power again to help prevent the jet from crashing and it appeared as though she completely lost control of it.

. as vague and casual as Magneto and the X-Men joining forces with no harsh words or threats,?

Your trademark "there is no evidence this happened because I didn't see it happen" thinking. Just because we didn't get too many scenes of the X-Men and the brotherhood exchanging insults doesn't mean it didn't happen. Did you forget about the scene on the X-Jet between Rogue and the brotherhood? Did you fail to notice that in that scene the brotherhood members were sitting by themselves in the back of the X-Jet? It's obvious that they had exchanged insults during the flight to Alkali Lake. Don't forget that Wolverine had an unpleasant exchange with Mystique in the tent in the forest. Your next question will probably be "Well, why didn't Wolverine sense Mystique when she came inside." I have an answer for that to whenever you decide to ask it.t:

. as vague and casual as no one caring about the welfare of the kids who escaped at the mansion?

I already addressed this ridiculous, redundant, and redititive complaint in my last post. I gave you an explanation and you completely ignored it.

. , as vague and casual as Magneto being the only one who knew Nightcrawler had teleported into a tree to eavesdrop on the conversation. A lot of unspoken assumptions going on. Many things done for convenience, pacing or just coolness. Which is what many say about X3?

This is without a doubt the worst complaint you've ever come up with. I saw no evidence that proves that Magneto was the first to see Nightcrawler above them. All I saw was Eric talking about a mutant among them who knew the location of Alkali Lake when he decided to look up because he heard something above and figured it might be nightcrawler since he recognized the bamfing sound and was the closest to hear it. Mystique who was standing next to Magneto in this scene may have also sensed Nightcrawler but didn't respond physically because of her focused personality. I'm not surprised Logan didn't sense Nightcrawler. His powers certaintly lose their effects when he's not focused. It took him a while to sense the special unit that broke into the X-Mansion. Nightcrawler is 20X more stealthy than all of those people combined.

What's really interesting about these latest questions is I remember you previously saying that X2 and Superman Returns were both too long and now you're convinced the films needed more scenes to fix all the things you're complaining about? You should change your name to Nitpickier Maniac of Singer's films because that's what you're turning into.

.
The bottom line is that you really don't like it that Bryan Singer didn't do X3. Don't you think at least some of your hate should be directed at Bryan himself for leaving the franchise?

Why should I fault Singer for leaving a frustrating situation? Fox made the productions of X1 and X2 very difficult for him. They screwed around with him for at least a year. I worked under an abusive boss for 4 hellish years and finally came to the conclusion that enough is enough. I didn't care about how much I was getting paid. I had to get out of that stressful situation so I could be happy and feel comfortable with going to work again. I can totally relate to Brian's situation and feel no ill will towards him for the decision he made.

 

[LadyVader]

...Especially since Superman Returns was such a good Goddamn movie. For me anyways.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I find it hilarious how some X3 supporters are being crybabies about this.

It seems their only defense to what we have to say is "because Singer didn't do the film, you hate it." I gave Ratner a chance, I defended Ratner, Penn, and Kinberg before the film was even released. The fact that I gave them that chance should automatically grant me the right to express my hatred, anger, and disappointment towards the film and the politics of X3.

When Singer left I thought that Fox couldn't and wouldn't mess it up. Hell, before Singer directed the X-Men I was hoping Cameron or Ridley Scott would direct the film. So Singer wasn't my first choice to direct the movie anyways.

I find it hilarious that certain X3 supporters point out flaws in Superman Returns in order to feel better about X3. Who cares? I know plenty of films that blow Superman Returns out of the water. Schindlers List, LOTR, King Kong, Spider-Man 1 and 2, Starman, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, American History X, and so forth. Do I feel Superman Returns is a better film than X3? Absolutely. I feel the story was told better and I like that Singer added a darker element to SR. Granted, it was more of a homage to Donner's Superman than an actual original Superman movie.

But as a whole I thought it was great.

Singer did a better job at creating a story and providing an intelligent aspect that Ratner ignored. Does it mean that Singer's films were perfect? No, far from it. But I would've preferred he stayed and completed the franchise he started and brought to critical acclaim.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I agree that this makes me feel uneasy however, I have explanation for this. That piece of kryptonite that Luther found in the museum could have been a piece that arrived on earth from the explosion of Krypton. Therefore, as a result of Krypton's explosion its properties would be altered and it's effects on superman could be slightly different. I haven't read too many superman comics or seen many smallville episodes but, I always believed that the other few traces of Krypton that were scattered around the earth broke off Superman's ship in earth's atmosphere when he first arrived as a baby. The properties of this Krypton could be slightly different because the source of it's environment is unique to the other source of Kyrpton affected by the explosion.

And what a ridiculous explanation. All the kryptonite that arrived on earth fell as meteorites at about the same time as Superman's arrival in the ship. None of it broke off the ship. It all travelled the same distance in roughly the same time and fell into the earth's atmosphere. Thus, it would have virtually identical properties. Now I know you are taking the piss. That had to be the worst piece of pseudo-scientific bullcrap you have ever spouted.

Lex didn't want the Kryptonite to instantly kill Superman. He wanted to see Superman suffer like most archenemies of superheroes want to see. Another one of your nitpicky complaints.

Wrong again. The stabbing with the crystal shard was a death blow intended to finish him off after the beating he had already suffered. Straight into the heart might have been better for a more direct death blow, but Christian symbolism got in the way.

Accept in all of those scenes in X1 Wolverine looks fatigued and gets knocked out by a Class 2 or 3 mutant(Sabertooth). Then he faints twice after being touched by Rogue(Class 1 or Class 2 mutant) but, in X3 he doesn't even wince in the presence of a Class 5 mutant? Could you at least come up with some bullcrap explanation for how Wolverine got a ridiculous power ugrade in X3? Regardless of you say I won't accept it but, at least humor me for once.

Of course he winces. He cries out in pain several times and reels back several times as she sends out waves of telekinetic energy.

If Jean's power works on the atomic level of breaking down the chemical bonds between atoms then it would not matter whether his vital organs were encased in adamantium. The adamantium would be destroyed. I know my theory about the way Jean's power works is right or she wouldn't be able to make all traces of her victims disappear. If all the atoms in my body instantly lost their translational, rotational, and vibrational energetic characterstics all the atomic bonds would be destroyed, I would turn into energy and, my body would disappear.

Incorrect. Jean's power sends out almost-visible waves of destructive energy. It has a range, as seen when all the soldiers within a specific radius are destroyed. And some molecular bonds are harder to break than others. Adamantium has the strongest molecular bonds of any known substance.

Excuse me, but the only thing I was arguing against was the thing you said about astronomers being able to see chunks of Kryptonite from space. Luther was the one who planted that false information and I trust my source about his information because he is usually 99% right about comic book information. I never said Superman didn't go to look for Krypton. On the other hand, I agree with everything else stated in the above post and I still don't fault Singer for any of the changes he made that contradicted things in Superman 1 and 2. Those previous Superman movies were made in a much different time(Over 25 years ago!!!) where these films weren't taken as seriously. The Salkinds made it virtually impossible for Donner to make the films he wanted to make. Of course any future Superman movies that continued in the same timeline as Donner's movies would have plotholes. The only thing I can find fault in Singer is his decision to not start the franchise over. That would have been the best thing but, Singer did feel some pressure from many fans who didn't want a restart.

Your friend is correct in that Singer intended Superman's trip to Krypton to be a ploy created by Luthor who conspired with a scientist. However, I am sure that some of the newspaper headlines not used in the movie included an 'Is this Krypton' headline that may have included a space telescope image... If the information about Krypton's remains being discovered was publicly known it would have been checked and verified by other astronomers. And, even if it were known only to Superman, one might imagine he might check it for himself before the voyage.

What Singer did was alter the mythology of Krypton's destruction as established by the previous movies. He retconned it. The point is that a new director to a franchise will have new ideas that may revise the history and facts previously presented. Any new director would bring to a new movie their own vision. Sometimes those ideas will fit with what happened before, with varying degrees of acceptability to fans. Lois Lane having Superman's child is another of those instances, as the amnesia kiss issue had to be forgotten, and there is the whole issue of what kind of previous relationship she and Superman had if she was in love with him but he felt able to go off to Krypton for five years without telling her or being aware of her pregnancy. There are questions there, and the SR forums are full of debates about them. Clearly, things weren't as properly established and smoothed out as much as some wanted. The behaviour of characters seemed to be different, perhaps questionable, even irresponsible.... because a new director and new writers were in charge.

This will happen with any movie franchise where the director/writers change, and has happened innumerable times with the comics, as i posted on here recently. A similar thing happened with X3. New concepts and characterisations were added to the mix, with some more happy than others about the flow from the previous movies. I feel you fail to understand that. And you fail to understand more than anything that it's a given that this will happen when new people come into a project.

I'm glad you don't care. Now this pointless dialogue I'm having with you about this topic can finally end.

For once I agree. This part can end.

I already covered this but, in case you don't know it is more damaging to the human body when organs are damaged on an atomic level than cellular damage.

Except his organs were within the virtually indestructible casing of adamantium which acted as a barrier. Clearly, she was also toying with him and not enveloping him totally in her energy field, as it was shown sweeping against him.

All your explanation does is open up another opporturnity to bash the numerous inconsistencies of X3. I know we already covered this but, Jean not using her telepathy on anyone else besides Xavier contradicts your belief that Jean joined forces simply so she could be free.

She does use her telepathic powers when she contacts Wolverine and obviously mentally guides him to the forest camp. Other than that, I agree she did not use her telepathic powers - probably to keep things simpler in the story. In the franchise, only Xavier was shown as having mind-control abilities and this is obviously to differentiate the abilities of the various mutants rather than have duplication. Jean's power appeared to be telepathic communication and an extreme telekinesis.

I guess you don't remember the scene after Deathstrike cuts Wolverine a few times, knocks him down, and even gives him time to regain his composure while his wounds heal. I guess you also forgot about the scene where Wolverine stabs Deathstrike with both claws in the stomach and let's her start to heal while she pulls both of his claws out. Both Wolverine and Deathstrike could have continued attacking during these scenes but, they both paused because they were suprised at each other's durability.

That was more for cool visuals, especially when she climbs up him after he stabs her. Still, the damage to vital internal organs would be considerable in many of the Wolverine fight scenes, not to mention blood loss. That's why I feel fine watching a bit of surface tissue fly off in X3, knowing his vital organs are unscathed.

X1: Magneto was a low level mutant terrorist commited his first terrorist acts. He scared the hell out of a lot of people. Was a few seconds away from turning some of the world leaders into mutants. Since Senator Kelly was the only one who died from the mutantion Jean could have been wrong about her position on what happens to other humans exposed to the radiation. Besides, Magneto is a scientist and could have made adjustments to his machine to get it to work better next time if all of the people exposed died. I'm impressed with X1's Magneto because he accomplished everything with a few henchmen.

X2: Magneto is even more impressive in X2. Magneto was in prison for half of the movie yet, he was able to come up with a plan out of nowhere that probably resulted in the deaths of many humans around the world and he accomplished this with one brotherhood member. I know you are going to say something ridiculous again like your trademark saying "There's no evidence that this happened because we didn't literally see it happen" when the movie had no time to show these events. I expected to see the impact of these events in X3. I was disappointed beyond my wildest imagination.

X3: Magneto is totally unimpressive in this film. He is partially responsible for the loss of a longtime brotherhood member. Is somewhat responsible for the death of a lifelong nemesis and friend who he respected. He fails to get the most powerful mutant on the planet to do anything useful for his brotherhood. He wastes an entire army on a pharmaceutical raid. Finally, he embarrasingly looses his power and His masterplan never made much sense. Please give me a laugh by refreshing my memory of what his plan was again.

Yes, I see what you are saying. But his underestimation of Phoenix and Wolverine is obviously a part of the story, to show an arrogant and ironic fall from grace.

Remember also he left his old friend/nemesis Xavier to die in X2 and left him to be responsible for killing all humans on the planet. The consequences of his and Stryker's actions were resolved at the end of X2 when the president was informed of Stryker's machinations. At this point, things were implied to return to status quo, with the government not taking action against mutants but offering a chance to pause for reflection and aspire for peace. That situation - an accepting government, Magneto on the run as an escaped criminal, did continue into X3.

X3 took a different approach. Whereas the first two movies had doomsday machines but either no death or no known/depicted death, the third movie decided not to have a doomsday machine and to show Jean's destructive power in a visibly depicted way rather than just as something threatening the entire world. It's just a different approach. We saw dozens of soldiers discorporating, actually dying. We saw people close to her die. It's a different style of storytelling.

The movie was freaking 2 hours and 30 minutes. It didn't need another story to be added. If anything it needed to be shorter and you know it. You're being nitpicky again for the sake of being nitpicky.

I would have added those things, but removed other things like Mystique's attempted seduction of Wolverine.

This is another one of your sad and desperate attempts to find something wrong with Singer's films. Even if it was the next day we still don't know how much time had passed between the time he was injected and the time he saw Magneto. The guard could have been injected at midnight, crashed for 2 and a half hours and gone to work. We have no idea what shift he works on so your speculations are trivial.

I'm not sure what this argument is about. But it seems certain the guard would be ill from all that iron injected into his body. What does time delay have to do with it?

Yes, I have answered this question before.

Explanation 1: There may have been a glitch in the system the second time it failed to detech the metal.

Explanation 2: The concentration of metal injected in the guard was just above the threshold magneto needed for his powers to be effective and just barely below the threshold of metal the machine could detech. I've worked with machines(FTIR, GFAA, HPLC, AA) in labs that detech the concentrations of metals in the air, solids, and solutions. All of these machines typically have a + and - error range. This would explain how the machine in X2 deteched metal the first time and not the other.

Interesting. But how convenient that it 1. the machine had a glitch the second time or 2. the metal was at a level for Magneto to sense it but not a sophisticated computer. I smell the bull**** of a plot convenience. Where are you pulling this crap from?

Give me a break. Magneto is an evil genius and had been working with Mystique for years. Magneto and Mystique could have easily thought up escape plan scenarios for both of their captures. Mystique showed she could sneak into the X-Mansion undetected X1. Of course Magneto would know almost instantly that it was Mystique's handiwork.

They may well have discussed escape scenarios. It was a very good sequence but I can still detect Singer/Harris/Dougherty vagueness going on here. It just feels a little too 'smooth'.

What was so vague about that? She showed that she had problem's controlling her powers in X1 and at the start of X2. It's possible that she lost control of them while trying to stop the second missile.

Her powers failed her, yes. But this was left open to interpretation. In the script she concentrates and nothing happens (no power at all?), in the novelisation she has access to power and tries to stop the second missile but her TK power 'misses' as she reaches out to it. I'd have liked a line of dialogue here, just to clarify.

After seeing this answer you will probably ask "well why didn't Storm and Jean try to slow the X-Jet down with their powers." My answer to why Jean didn't use her powers is above. As for Storm she may have been trying to use them to slow the X-Jet down. However this would have been extremely difficult because she had to try and control the air pressure inside the jet as a result of the hole just to keep everyone inside conscious at the same time she was trying to steady the jet with an outside wind. Doing this could have been close to impossible for her. Jean would have had to use her power again to help prevent the jet from crashing and it appeared as though she completely lost control of it.

Interesting. Storm did stop the X-jet crashing in a comicbook story, after Magneto shortcircuited it in the sky over his Bermuda Triangle island. Jean and Storm trying to stop it, or accounting for why they didn't, was a possibility. Everyone instead accepted rather casually that they were going to die a horrible death.

Your trademark "there is no evidence this happened because I didn't see it happen" thinking. Just because we didn't get too many scenes of the X-Men and the brotherhood exchanging insults doesn't mean it didn't happen. Did you forget about the scene on the X-Jet between Rogue and the brotherhood? Did you fail to notice that in that scene the brotherhood members were sitting by themselves in the back of the X-Jet? It's obvious that they had exchanged insults during the flight to Alkali Lake. Don't forget that Wolverine had an unpleasant exchange with Mystique in the tent in the forest. Your next question will probably be "Well, why didn't Wolverine sense Mystique when she came inside." I have an answer for that to whenever you decide to ask it.t:

Rather odd though to omit scenes of tension and conflict between the two sides. This was an amazing agreement to join forces after the events of X1. Nothing wrong with them joining forces, just the dynamics of it. It might have made some interesting conflict.

This is without a doubt the worst complaint you've ever come up with. I saw no evidence that proves that Magneto was the first to see Nightcrawler above them. All I saw was Eric talking about a mutant among them who knew the location of Alkali Lake when he decided to look up because he heard something above and figured it might be nightcrawler since he recognized the bamfing sound and was the closest to hear it. Mystique who was standing next to Magneto in this scene may have also sensed Nightcrawler but didn't respond physically because of her focused personality. I'm not surprised Logan didn't sense Nightcrawler. His powers certaintly lose their effects when he's not focused. It took him a while to sense the special unit that broke into the X-Mansion. Nightcrawler is 20X more stealthy than all of those people combined.

Interesting but not entirely convincing. In the comics, of course, Magneto was able to detect Nightcrawler's teleportation because it disrupts the earth's magnetic field. However, it was interesting to read what you had to say. I'm not convinced by Wolverine not sensing Nightcrawler's presence, nor by any explanation you care to offer about why he didn't sense Mystique was disguised as Jean. He wasn't on alert in the mansion when he heard the soldiers, he was relaxing (not focusing) in the kitchen, but I agree that like all senses, his probably work better when focused.

What's really interesting about these latest questions is I remember you previously saying that X2 and Superman Returns were both too long and now you're convinced the films needed more scenes to fix all the things you're complaining about? You should change your name to Nitpickier Maniac of Singer's films because that's what you're turning into.

No, I like his films, but I realise they are not perfect and I recognise that he has a characteristic vagueness at times.

Why should I fault Singer for leaving a frustrating situation? Fox made the productions of X1 and X2 very difficult for him. They screwed around with him for at least a year. I worked under an abusive boss for 4 hellish years and finally came to the conclusion that enough is enough. I didn't care about how much I was getting paid. I had to get out of that stressful situation so I could be happy and feel comfortable with going to work again. I can totally relate to Brian's situation and feel no ill will towards him for the decision he made.

I see. You must be disappointed he didn't do X3, even if you don't feel ill-will for him abandoning it. I'm not sure it was that frustrating for him with Fox, maybe he merely couldn't resist what was his dream project.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm still trying to figure out why those who enjoyed the film are still posting in this thread? Seriously, can't you all go into your own threads and leave us in peace?

We're having intelligent debates without you, so why are you still here bugging us?

 

[chaseter]

I find it hilarious how some X3 supporters are being crybabies about this.

It seems their only defense to what we have to say is "because Singer didn't do the film, you hate it." I gave Ratner a chance, I defended Ratner, Penn, and Kinberg before the film was even released. The fact that I gave them that chance should automatically grant me the right to express my hatred, anger, and disappointment towards the film and the politics of X3.

When Singer left I thought that Fox couldn't and wouldn't mess it up. Hell, before Singer directed the X-Men I was hoping Cameron or Ridley Scott would direct the film. So Singer wasn't my first choice to direct the movie anyways.

I find it hilarious that certain X3 supporters point out flaws in Superman Returns in order to feel better about X3. Who cares? I know plenty of films that blow Superman Returns out of the water. Schindlers List, LOTR, King Kong, Spider-Man 1 and 2, Starman, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, American History X, and so forth. Do I feel Superman Returns is a better film than X3? Absolutely. I feel the story was told better and I like that Singer added a darker element to SR. Granted, it was more of a homage to Donner's Superman than an actual original Superman movie.

But as a whole I thought it was great.

Singer did a better job at creating a story and providing an intelligent aspect that Ratner ignored. Does it mean that Singer's films were perfect? No, far from it. But I would've preferred he stayed and completed the franchise he started and brought to critical acclaim.

I did the exact same thing and I can't believe I supported Ratner and allowed Penn and Kinberg to feed me lies and get my hopes up. Fox messed this one up big and I hope the do FF2 right. X3 could have been great...could have, would have, should have.

 

[Matt.S99]

I did the exact same thing and I can't believe I supported Ratner and allowed Penn and Kinberg to feed me lies and get my hopes up. Fox messed this one up big and I hope the do FF2 right. X3 could have been great...could have, would have, should have.

those bastards

 

[Goddessreicho]

Funny, I still keep saying the first thing about X1 and that disaster in disguise, X2.

They coulda woulda shoulda ALL been SO much better. It's like whoever made these movies never actually READ a comic book...oh wait, they didn't. How many interviews and quotes do we have again of the producers and BOTH directors saying that none of them had read an extensive amount of the source material...for too many for this "successful" franchise to not be a crumbling joke.

 

[Loganbabe]

I did not AVOID your post like the plague. I merely disregarded it because it was a goddamn diatribe of what YOU liked and thought of OUR world. You essentially transferred your own views to the Marvelverse.

I always thought that what made foruns in general interesting was the fact that we could give our own views about the subject at hand, be it comics, the political situation of the world or whatever.
Yes, me, me, me. My opinion. My view. Unless you, like LastSunrise, believe you have THE view, the one and only that matters.

The reason I didn't aknowledge as a point WITHIN THE MARVELVERSE is because, well, it, geez, lemme guess, it essentially ignore the core of the Marvelverse.

I'll put it bluntly, sister. Superhero comic books are essentially soap opera with fights. Sugarcoat it all you want, it still comes down to battles and mind-numbing statistically next-to-impossible drama.

Throw in all the social commentary or character studies you want and yet heroes will be out of work without villains around. The whole subtext of the Marvelverse is the eternal battle between good and evil.

Why do I ignore the Marvelverse if I´m also talking about epic battles, the ones fought inside so many characters? The battle against prejudice, hatred...in Wolverine´s case, the ongoing battle inside himself of man against beast? Now, if you´re only talking about literal battles, of real battles between "real" heroes and villains which need real leaders and commanders, well...have you ever thought that maybe some people enjoy the eternal battle between good and evil in the Marvelverse in some other way than you do?
Of course I aknowledge the importance of villains, and the heroes who have to fight and stop them. But if the Marvelverse was only about this simplistic battle after battle, fight after fight, it would be boring as hell. Of course seeing Wolverine kicking some bad guy´s butt is funny, but if it was the only thing the character was about I wouldn´t give a rat´s ass about him in the first place. What drawns me to Logan is the tragic/reluctant hero he is, what I find interesting about so many Marvel characters is their inner life and personalities. The wars in the inside.

Your views can't change that. Neither mine nor anyone's.

I don´t want to change anything. My views are my views, that´s the only thing they are.

That would be like you saying poets and bards are the most important people in the LOTR universe rather than warriors.

Poets and bards rule!
And we can have some poet warriors too...
Now, what can you say about Frodo? He wasn´t a warrior at all...Frodo represented the common man, and he had to deal with big questions inside himself which weren´t exactly leading people into real, big, epic battles. LotR is as much about his mission and the battle inside himself as it is about Aragorn commanding an army.

EDIT: WAIT, Larry Hama is a PERSONAL HERO of yours and you diss the G.I.Joe analogy????!!!!! Please tell me the irony isn't lost on you. Too f****n funny.

Why is it funny? I never said I followed Larry Hama around like some devoted geek, but he is a personal hero of mine when it comes to Wolverine. He wrote some wonderful stories about a character I love, he defined some of his most important moments, and to me his run was the best yet on the character. I don´t have any interest in G.I. Joe, maybe Hama wrote some classic, wonderful stories for G.I. Joe, good for him, but, eh...I´m never gonna read them. I follow characters, not writers.
Of course I have some favorite writers, but even great writers can be great disappointments. Like, I loved "Origin", and I thought Paul Jenkins could do no wrong when he conceived "Wolverine - The End". I was waiting for a great comic, a defining view on the character, and what I got was not only a bad story, it was one of the worse Wolverine stories EVER! Gee, I´m still waiting for Paul Jenkins to redeem himself over that atrocity...
As for Larry Hama, I want him back in "Wolverine" as, like, yesterday! t:

 

[Loganbabe]

If you actually READ the dialogue you would see that Logan actually QUESTIONS Scott's decision and his orders. I wrote the scene in which Scott again tells Logan that he needs to help Storm get people to safety, in which Logan see's that Scott is the only one who can stop Jean. Nice try though.

And why is that Cyke is the only one who can stop Jean?
And I never said Logan was running away from the Phoenix because he was afraid, I read very well what you wrote. What I´m questioning is Logan simply accepting that his role was to help Storm get people to safety. Logan´s mind is that of a warrior, in a situation like that he would never say "You´re right Cyke, I´ll just help Storm and leave you alone with the Phoenix. See ya.". It´s totally un-Logan. He wouldn´t leave the scene. You know and I know how he can be a stubborn s.o.b sometimes.

Again, you love the WOLVERINE COMICS. You don't seem to care about any of the other characters except for Logan anyways, so again I don't really buy your "love" for the comics words anyways. But whatever.

I care about other characters, but I care SO much more for Wolverine. So what? You come here with all your high morals and love for all the characters of the X-Men universe, but I don´t see you posting like crazy on the other many characters´threads.
I don´t go on "hating" or "denouncing" other characters, as you like to say. Please show me one post where I did that. That I´m much more interested in Wolverine doesn´t mean I hate the others, or doesn´t understand their importance.
Just like danoyse said, I love the comics in a different way than yours. If you don´t accept that, or think the only way of loving comics is your way, well, that´s your problem, really...

She is all about Logan and gets upset whenever someone says something "mean" about "her Logan".

Well, it´s easy to say that when your favorite character isn´t the one being bashed here on a daily basis...
Besides, as much as I love Logan, if I was to get upset whenever someone says something mean about him I wouldn´t do anything more with my life than spend my days "defending" Wolverine from bashers...

 

[gambitfire]

Anyways.

Did anyone ever notice this. Was it brought to the attention of the members here on the hype, because i sure as hell don't remember it.

"Idiots. Idiots. Did you see 'Red Dragon'? Did you see that? And you saw 'Family Man', which is totally different, a very emotional story. Then, you have two giant comedies. What are they thinking? This is a great filmmaker. Do you know how much experience this guy has? Let alone his new Jessica Simpson video? This guy knows what he's doing."[1] - said against fans who expressed their dissatisfaction about Brett Ratner being the director of the X-Men 3 movie. After seeing X-men 3 Arad has since apologised for the statement believing he should have listened to the fans all along.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Arad

 

[BMM]

Anyways.

Did anyone ever notice this. Was it brought to the attention of the members here on the hype, because i sure as hell don't remember it.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Arad

Yeah, it was posted. Not many people were happy to hear him say that.