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[Leon the Professional]

When the X-Men lands, he calls them "traitors to their own cause"

With the cure taken away from humans, the humans have no weapon against Magneto and the Brotherhood. The mutant powers they possess are enough of a weapon against the humans.

But for mutants who would stand in their way (X-Men), they have powers who could allow them to stand toe to toe, Magneto would have the cure, as a weapon against those who he deems as "traitors", who he would see as not fit to be part of this "mutant superiority".

It's quite simple, really, if you actually pay attention to the movie without trying to rip it to shreds at every moment, and have an understanding of the characters that the movie is based upon.

It is because I paid attention to the movie that I have so many issues with it.

Why why why WHY does Magneto NEED to resort to hypocritically using the "cure" created by his oppressors to defeat the X-MEN. Especially now that he has Dark Phoenix on his side along with an army of Brotherhood members, Xavier and Cyclops are dead and out of his way, and two of the remaining X-MEN's powers involve metal that he can manipulate at his whim, and another one of them is basically just a gorilla.

Even putting all of that aside, how exactly would it be easier for Magneto to defeat the X-MEN with cure darts rather than a torrent of scrap metal?

 

[Leon the Professional]

On Storm not trying to hit Magneto with lightning:

Yes, it would have been great to see Storm use her power on Magneto...for no reason at all. So, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...am I not to understand that you all want to see Storm fail?

People, as much as you think you can, you cannot just run with what comes into your head and go "They should have done this!" and act like it's that simple to write or change a story. You have to THINK about how EACH and EVERY "story" point you want to see "added" to what's already there affects the larger story. Think about what is added...and what is removed from what's on the page and in the story. And, in the case of a real, actual movie production, writers have to think about how much it costs. I doubt FOX would want to waste money on fairly elaborate effects that don't really MEAN anything to the story. Oooh! More lightning! Pretty! Oooh! A magnetic bubble with no actual story significance! Pretty!

One, the entire point of showing Magneto throwing flaming cars is to give him and PYRO a well-deserved "teamwork" moment. That moment is designed to end with Bobby stopping Pyro, and Magneto ceasing his actions. So why the hell would you eliminate or take that away to see Storm fry, or even attempt to fry Magneto? After Bobby stops the car onslaught, Magneto does nothing for a while. So would Storm then just fry Magneto when he's not doing anything? When's she supposed to fry Magneto exactly? Before Bobby takes over? How's it going to work? Is she going to GUESS where Magneto is and hope lightning hits him while she's hiding from the flaming car grenades?

Two, Magneto wasn't even that immediate a THREAT for a while. Callisto was. Storm was occupied with Callisto. We got to see Storm do quite a bit with her in this film. So don't act like she doesn't do anything at all.

Three, Storm has done nothing BUT fry people in this franchise. Toad, Sabertooth, Callisto, and then she used more bolts to drive a wedge between the opposing sides in X3. Explain to me how the hell one more attempt or use of lightning is going to be all that satisfying a story point? Especially since she JUST DID IT TO CALLISTO. It'd be REDUNDANT. And that IS a staple of bad writing. It's one thing to have Wolverine, who basically just stabs and hits people anyway, keep stabbing and hitting people. It's quite another to have Storm, who has a RANGE of powers, just keep making lightning.

Fourth, Storm seems to be a little busy running and hiding from flaming cars. I don't blame her for not shooting bolt after bolt.

Fifth, and perhaps most importantly, you might as well ask why didn't Storm fry Magneto on Liberty Island? Why didn't Storm fry Jason Stryker? Why didn't she fry the Sentinel? She had opportunities in several sequences in X-MEN, X2 and X3. Real ones, where her lightning would have made a HUGE difference.

Why didn't she? Because she didn't. Because it was someone else's turn to shine. Because it better SERVES THE STORY for her not to, and for someone else to "save the day", as it does in this case. I'd much rather see BOBBY halt Magneto and Pyro than see Storm fry someone yet again in this franchise. Been there. Done that.

Stories don't have to be written one way. Just as there is not only one choice of actions in life, there isn't one choice of actions in fantasy.

Poor screenwriting? No. It's screenwriting that doesn't fully utilize the fact that everyone has powers they can use constructively. And SO WHAT? It's not like this is the first time someone hasn't done something they possibly conceivievably maybe could have done if you'd written the movie. If anything, it's the OPPOSITE of poor screenwriting, because it actually allows for some tension to the moment, and doesn't present characters doing predictable things.

And now you seem to be...breeding with each other...it's like a hive mind in here...

Oh, and the whole "Take control of the cure" thing is a ruse. He actually wants to kill the kid, as evidenced by the film showing us that he wants the kid dead. He uses the threat of the cure to bring others to his cause, as the movie both shows and tells, but as usual, he has his own motives, which are to eliminate the cure completely.

"So you want a realistic down to earth show...that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots"

"Oh! Oh! And also! You should win things by watching!"

Guard, I am disappointed. That you of all people defending X3 would dismiss my suggestion for Storm firing lightning at Magneto as superfluous action, when I clearly suggested it because Storm is vehemently against the cure, let alone in weaponized form, and so it goes completely against her established character for her to resort to using it without even attempting to take out Magneto with her own powers. After that failed, let's say because Magneto simply channeled the lightning into an electical forcefield, then the X-MEN would truly have been forced to resort to using the cure.

I would love to see a more various display of Storm's powers, and the writers could have written it in. But if Storm's most effective power is lightning in a particular situation, then she shouldn't be going out of her way to mix things up just for the sake of not being redundant. It's a fight, not a dance.

Instead of just hiding, she could have generated wind to blow the cars away, or strike them with lightning in midair before they have a chance to crash down.

Storm did not fry Magneto at Liberty Island because they were in a giant copper conductor. If you had read my previous posts, you would see that I brought this up as an example of Singer and his writers actually trying to provide an explanation for Storm's inaction, as opposed to Ratner. And sure, she could have risked a precision lightning strike at Magneto when he floats up out of the Statue, but then Sabretooth would have just gutted her and the rest.

As for not frying Jason Stryker, that would be a valid complaint... if she failed to do anything to defeat him. But she did defeat him, using severe cold instead of lightning, which was a nice change of pace of her powers. So what exactly is the problem here?

As for not frying the Sentinel, well yeah she sure as hell could have. I guess she didn't fry the Sentinel because she was trying to teach the X-Kids teamwork, like give them a chance to defeat it's since it's training for their sake, not hers. But I'm not going to defend the Danger Room scene, which I find nonsensical for several reasons.

 

[Theweepeople]

No, it's not a "great analogy", that's exactly what Magneto's character is!

The man who survived the concentration camps of the Holocause, and because of it, became bitter towards humans and their intolerance to those who are different, yet takes on the same methods as the Nazi's did of trying to eliminate those who HE finds inferior so that it can be him and his kind who are superior, and in power.

THAT is Magneto's character.

That's interesting. You still didn't address why Magneto has such an easy time using something viewed as an abomination by him against his own kind.

Um... that's exactly what Magneto has always been; respectful of Charles Xavier, because they are old friends and allies, who in the end are fighting for the same cause, but he does not like Xavier's supporters (X-Men) because they have different methods of going about their goals, and he believes that his methods are right, and Xavier's methods will get them nowhere, and he is willing to fight for his goal at all costs, even if it means going up against others whom he respects, but are holding back the cause..

This still does not properly address what was I taking about. It's still inconsistent for Magneto to show respect towards someone who started a cause and then show a complete disrespect towards the supporters.

his is exactly what I hate about people who hate this film, they start to ***** about anything and everything that happened in the movie, just because it happened in the movie, despite the source material which the film is adapted from, providing the elements that are found in the film that you people are *****ing about.

I've lost a lot of respect for you Nell. If you are this annoyed and intolerant towards reading the opinions of the X3 haters then stay the hell out of these threads. I have never posted any negative commentaries about X3 lovers in threads that are positive towards X3.

It becomes quite obvious that this is just blind hatred for the sake of hatred, without taking ANYTHING at all into consideration, except the fact that it happened in the movie so it must be bad.

It's becoming quite clear that you are very intolerant towards X3 hater opinions. Any claims you made earlier of having respect for all viewpoints has little merit for now on.

 

[Theweepeople]

Exactly!!!!!


Why is it not bad scriptwriting when in X2, when the soldiers raid the mansion, and Pyro is blatantly shown grabbing his lighter, that he never uses his powers against the soldiers when, throughout the movie, we are shown that he doesn't really care about authority, nor holding back, and is blatantly showcased to use his powers against authority figures later on? Instead, he runs around a whole bunch with Rogue and Iceman, the latter of those 2 also being able to do some pretty good damage with his powers as well. Why did they just run around the mansion, running away from soldiers, when Pyro on his own could have very well have fought back against the soldiers, toasted a bunch of them in the process, and was showcased to having just the mindset to do it?

Are you forgetting that these scenes came after Xavier had given Pyro a verbal tongue lashing in public about using his powers? Pryo probably got the same treatment when he got back to the mansion by Xavier and many of his peers. Maybe that had an impact on his decisions to hold back when the soilders came into the X-Mansion. In fact we only have two scenes in that whole sequence when the soilders and Pryo are in the same room. In the first scene where the soilders broke through the windows did you ever consider that Pyro might be preparing to use his powers before Wolverine kicked all the soilders asses. The second scene is where they are trying to escape through the secret passage. Finally, it's obvious that you aren't taking Singer's budget constraints into consideration. One of the main reasons I hate X3 is because it is the worst film I've seen with a budget over 200 million. This is one of the main reasons I will always be less critical towards X1 and X2. Those films where better made with less time and money. Fox had years to prepare to make X3 but, they procrastinated until the final moment to get it made. Kinberg and Penn didn't start writing the script until December of 2004(The first script for this summers Transformers was written in 2004. )

It's a shame you and other X3 lovers seem to have a knack for coming up with ridiculous criticisms of X1 and X2 just to make yourselves feel better about the legitimate criticisms of X3.

 

[Theweepeople]

Again, thank god you're not a scriptwriter. And if you ever are, let me know what movies you're making so I can make sure to avoid them.

This is the commentary I would expect a troll to make. It's flawed reasoning since I never went to film school so of course I wouldn't have the experience needed to be involved with the development of a film. Your insult is about as relevant as a lazy professional athlete telling critical fans "If you can do a better job you play this sport" inspite of the fans having legitimate reasons for being angry with the poor display of work ethic. I have some friends who did graduate from film school and so far all of them are in agreement with how poorly X3 was put together.

 

[Theweepeople]

Dropping the bridge on the island was even more tactically "stupid" than you claim his current plan, and is the reason why YOU aren't scriptwriters (thank god) nor are you military generals (an even bigger "thank god", for the sake of our troops who would needlessly sacrifice their lives over your questionable "strategy")

After 6 months of analyzing this film am I still the only one who believes that dropping the bridge regardless of where it fell, was a bad idea since most of the people on it would either be severly hurt or killed?

Now to be fair to those who think that dropping it on Al-catraz was a great idea. If Magneto choose to do this he could have ordered his army to go to the back end of the bridge and lowered that part first so it was touching the elevated part of Al-catraz. Then he could drop the front part which would have hit buildings, shattered into pieces, and killed people. The remaining soilders and people who did survive the drop would most likely be slaughtered. The whole argument about Magneto needing an escape route was pretty silly. The goverment must have been alerted about what was taking place at Al-catraz and probably told a section of the military in San Fransico to blow up the bridge. There was no reasonable way Magneto and his army were going to leave Al-catraz unless they decided to take hostages(Leech!!!!). Great plan Magneto. Unfortunately, the poorly written Magneto that Penn and Kinberg gave us didn't think any of these things through.


By the way, could someone explain to me why the security on Al-catraz was so crappy? Magneto took the most conspicuous way to transport his army and no one on the Island seemed to notice until the bridge is a few feet away. The president must have known in advance that renegade mutants would plan a terrorist attack at that location. Oops I forgot. Penn and Kinberg wrote this script.

Also, where was the security for leech? Why weren't there any guards inside the building to try and protect him? How did a doofus like Juggernaut know exactly where he was?

 

[gambitfire]

That's true, the Hulk's fanbase is a lot smaller than that of, say, the X-Men.

Or Batman and Superman, rather, which was my point.

See this is where even being the huge X-men fan i am, i'm going to have to disagree.

Batman and Superman are DC, so i'm not even going there.

As far as Marvel superhero icons go. Well Hulk is in more places than the x-men especially before the movies. Spider-man and Hulk are arguably Marvels most recognizable icons.

I love the X-men but while the fanbase for X-men has grown bigger and probably was bigger, Hulk is still more popular in the sense that more ppl are likely to know of him. My parents raised in central america never knew the X-Men but they Knew the Hulk and Spider-man for sure. After all he did have a T.V. Series.


Don't get me wrong i'm still an X-fan at heart;

But i'm just calling it how i see it.


As for Batman and Superman well that's DC and X-Men doesn't even reach that statuts so it's pointless to throw them in any debate around here.

 

[gambitfire]

How about this. The writers wanted eye candy action and didn't care to use logic, to formally expalin any of this. They figured most ppl would be to aww struck by the bridge scene to care why on anything that happened.

I personally didn't care, the film had better displays of bad writing.

The bridge drop was silly as far as i'm concerned.

and Pyro not attacking some guards in X2 is a horrible comparison. I don't see how you can even compare the 2. I just saw someone say that when i skimmed through. *shrugs*

 

[danoyse]

As far as Marvel superhero icons go. Well Hulk is in more places than the x-men especially before the movies. Spider-man and Hulk are arguably Marvels most recognizable icons.

I love the X-men but while the fanbase for X-men has grown bigger and probably was bigger, Hulk is still more popular in the sense that more ppl are likely to know of him. My parents raised in central america never knew the X-Men but they Knew the Hulk and Spider-man for sure. After all he did have a T.V. Series.

Not to mention an incredibly awesome roller coaster in Florida. t:

I'd have to agree with that too...culturally, I'd think the Hulk is a more recognizable character. Honestly, how can you miss the guy? He's huge.

 

[gambitfire]

I LOVE ME THE HULK RIDE!! FRONT ROW EVERYTIME!!! So far i have me an 8 time count.

 

[Theweepeople]

How about this. The writers wanted eye candy action and didn't care to use logic, to formally expalin any of this. They figured most ppl would be to aww struck by the bridge scene to care why on anything that happened.

This was truely an insult to the inteligence of the audience(Sci-fi fans) who like these types of films. We are supposed to suspend our imaginations to an extent when we watch movies but, there are only so many plot inconsistencies an audience is willing to accept. One of the funniest movies I've ever seen was Mortal Kombat annihilation. I saw the movie in college with 20 other guys who were all science thinking people(Engineers, chemists, physicists, and mathematicians). Every minute of that film was bashed, dissected, and mocked with the same witticism of The Mystery Science Theater 3000.

and Pyro not attacking some guards in X2 is a horrible comparison. I don't see how you can even compare the 2. I just saw someone say that when i skimmed through. *shrugs*

It was definitely a horrible comparison and I don't know why many X3 lovers keep coming up with these bizzare criticisms of X1 and X2 in a pathetic attempt make them feel better about their stance. If they believe X3 was such a great movie then they should constantly praise it and talk about the things that make it great in the "If you like the movie post here thread"? Some of these people are obviously insecure about their viewpoints or they wouldn't resort to bashing the opinions of others who disagree with them. I don't get stressed out with the opinions of people who hate films that I like because they don't bother me. That's why you won't ever see me post anything in the X1 and X2 forums.

 

[BMM]

Not to mention an incredibly awesome roller coaster in Florida. t:

I'd have to agree with that too...culturally, I'd think the Hulk is a more recognizable character. Honestly, how can you miss the guy? He's huge.

Yep. It's funny how this works. There's quite a generation gap. Prior to the first X-Men film, my parents, aunts, and uncles were much more likely to know who the Incredible Hulk was as opposed to somebody like Rogue or even Wolverine. The Hulk had received much more exposure outside of his comic book origins than the X-Men. There was only one successful translation of the X-Men beyond their comic book counterparts. Aside from that, anybody unfamiliar with comic books probably wouldn't have heard of them, which is why most people younger than the Animated Series' demographic weren't familiar with them… whereas the Hulk had spawned multiple cartoons dating back as early as the 60s. Likewise, he had multiple television shows/movies spanning the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

That said, I think the X-Men are making up plenty of ground and are thus far having an easier time reaching newer generations as opposed to the Hulk.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Why are you being so rude to me Nell? I have never tried to insult your inteligence so why are you doing the same to me. I never suggested dropping the bridge on Alcatraz.

And I don't think my response was in reply to you.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

It's becoming quite clear that you are very intolerant towards X3 hater opinions. Any claims you made earlier of having respect for all viewpoints has little merit for now on.

Way to overreact, but if you want to turn into LastSunrise1981, that's fine.

I don't disagree that this film has problems. And I don't disagree that many of those problems are scriptwriting and filmmaking problems. This is the X-Men film that grabs the most complaints from me because I do believe it is the worst made. I don't believe it is poorly made, but definatley not as finely crafted as Bryan Singer's films. I believe it is in the end on the same level because of other areas that it excells at better than Bryan Singer. But much of Bryan Singer's elegance and style that he brought to his films is noticeably missing from the film, and it suffers from a negative effect because of it.

However, the complaints that I have seen on here; the bridge (every complaint about it, from where it was dropped, to the people on the bridge being hurt or not), Storm shooting lightning at Magneto before using the cure, the using of the cure as a weapon, Wolverine's healing factor when facing Phoenix... those aren't areas of poor scriptwriting or storytelling.

Seriously, if you are complaining about things like this, then are there ANY pieces of fiction that you can enjoy? Because every form of storytelling has some form of "plot convenience", aspects where the character could have done something more logical, or realistically another consequence should have occured that was neglected. And that's all that these instances are. They are evidences towards bad filmmaking.

I'm not intolerant towards X3 hating, no matter how much LastSunrise tries to slant it towards that. I am immensly frustrated with the insane amount of nitpicking, to levels I have never in my life ever experienced. Never in my life have I experienced people *****ing over things as trivial as what is being complained about in this thread. And trust me, I have experienced some people with insane amounts of hatreds for movies over what I deem to be trivial instances. But this place here definatley takes the cake.

I know people who hate the movie who believe this kind of logic is absolutley ridiculous, and holds absolutley no weight what so ever towards judging the movie.

You claim that my comparissons towards X1 and X2 are there to "justify" my stance on X3. No, it's to show you that the same kinds of storytelling aspects were done in Bryan Singer's films also, that everyone seems to cherish so much, but when Bryan Singer does it, everyone goes out of their way to find some kind of justification or excuse to validate it. It's a very blatant double standard.

You think my comparrisons are trying to justify my stance on how good X3 was, well, to be quite honest, I believe that all this nitpicking over the bridges, healing powers, and lightning bolts, are nothing more than the same for you to feel some sense of justification for your blind hatred of this movie.

Because seriously, when things like THIS are being criticized, the same things that happened in the 2 movies previous, that everyone praises, but it's not okay now, that's all it comes off as, is a blind hatred of the movie.

Watching people sit here *****ing about how long a bridge was, or whether or not the Brotherhood members should have gotten hurt when it dropped, or Storm shooting a lightning bolt at Magneto before using the cure, to me, that just tells me that you have such a blind hatred for this movie that you're going to find every little thing to ***** about with this movie just because it was in the movie. To be quite brutally honest, it comes off to me as your side not having enough valid reasons to hate this movie, that you just have to start swinging at anything and everything in range to try to knock this film down and make your stance look better. And that's the brutal truth about how I feel.

If you have legitamate concerns with this film (and trust me, I truly, honestly, believe that there are legitamate concerns with this film, that boil down to the foundation of the scriptwriting and filmmaking qualities) then fine, let's talk. But don't come at me with all of this childish bullcrap because you need to make yourself feel good by pointing out every little thing that doesn't fit some kind of formulaic process of what you think people should act like, while going back through Q & A's that you saved on your computer from almost a year ago to bash the people who made this film as human beings because you're not happy with the product.

It's also probably quite obvious that I'm a bit too opinionated on the matter, because I just turned into the very thing that I hate on these forums. But it gets very frustrating watching this insane nitpicking over trivial aspects that don't make a movie good or bad at all.

 

[JP]

My goodness. What a thread.

You guys do realize that there a tons of things in X1 and 2 that just don't make sense. There are just as many shoulda/woulda/coulda moments. In fact, just about every film ever made has them.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Way to overreact, but if you want to turn into LastSunrise1981, that's fine.

I don't disagree that this film has problems. And I don't disagree that many of those problems are scriptwriting and filmmaking problems. This is the X-Men film that grabs the most complaints from me because I do believe it is the worst made. I don't believe it is poorly made, but definatley not as finely crafted as Bryan Singer's films. I believe it is in the end on the same level because of other areas that it excells at better than Bryan Singer. But much of Bryan Singer's elegance and style that he brought to his films is noticeably missing from the film, and it suffers from a negative effect because of it.

However, the complaints that I have seen on here; the bridge (every complaint about it, from where it was dropped, to the people on the bridge being hurt or not), Storm shooting lightning at Magneto before using the cure, the using of the cure as a weapon, Wolverine's healing factor when facing Phoenix... those aren't areas of poor scriptwriting or storytelling.

Seriously, if you are complaining about things like this, then are there ANY pieces of fiction that you can enjoy? Because every form of storytelling has some form of "plot convenience", aspects where the character could have done something more logical, or realistically another consequence should have occured that was neglected. And that's all that these instances are. They are evidences towards bad filmmaking.

I'm not intolerant towards X3 hating, no matter how much LastSunrise tries to slant it towards that. I am immensly frustrated with the insane amount of nitpicking, to levels I have never in my life ever experienced. Never in my life have I experienced people *****ing over things as trivial as what is being complained about in this thread. And trust me, I have experienced some people with insane amounts of hatreds for movies over what I deem to be trivial instances. But this place here definatley takes the cake.

I know people who hate the movie who believe this kind of logic is absolutley ridiculous, and holds absolutley no weight what so ever towards judging the movie.

You claim that my comparissons towards X1 and X2 are there to "justify" my stance on X3. No, it's to show you that the same kinds of storytelling aspects were done in Bryan Singer's films also, that everyone seems to cherish so much, but when Bryan Singer does it, everyone goes out of their way to find some kind of justification or excuse to validate it. It's a very blatant double standard.

You think my comparrisons are trying to justify my stance on how good X3 was, well, to be quite honest, I believe that all this nitpicking over the bridges, healing powers, and lightning bolts, are nothing more than the same for you to feel some sense of justification for your blind hatred of this movie.

Because seriously, when things like THIS are being criticized, the same things that happened in the 2 movies previous, that everyone praises, but it's not okay now, that's all it comes off as, is a blind hatred of the movie.

Watching people sit here *****ing about how long a bridge was, or whether or not the Brotherhood members should have gotten hurt when it dropped, or Storm shooting a lightning bolt at Magneto before using the cure, to me, that just tells me that you have such a blind hatred for this movie that you're going to find every little thing to ***** about with this movie just because it was in the movie. To be quite brutally honest, it comes off to me as your side not having enough valid reasons to hate this movie, that you just have to start swinging at anything and everything in range to try to knock this film down and make your stance look better. And that's the brutal truth about how I feel.

If you have legitamate concerns with this film (and trust me, I truly, honestly, believe that there are legitamate concerns with this film, that boil down to the foundation of the scriptwriting and filmmaking qualities) then fine, let's talk. But don't come at me with all of this childish bullcrap because you need to make yourself feel good by pointing out every little thing that doesn't fit some kind of formulaic process of what you think people should act like, while going back through Q & A's that you saved on your computer from almost a year ago to bash the people who made this film as human beings because you're not happy with the product.

It's also probably quite obvious that I'm a bit too opinionated on the matter, because I just turned into the very thing that I hate on these forums. But it gets very frustrating watching this insane nitpicking over trivial aspects that don't make a movie good or bad at all.

Just because I am expressing all of my reasons for disliking the movie in this thread, does not mean I am some nitpicker.

If having problems with such major plot points as Magneto going against the essence of his character by hypocritically planning to utilize the cure created by his own oppressors against his own kind, or the X-MEN deciding to use the cure against Magneto when it hasn't been adequately demonstrated that they have no other choice, is "nitpicking trivial aspects" then I don't understand what isn't.

So, please enlighten me. What non-trivial, non-nitpick faults do you find with the movie?

Why does it bother you that my negative opinion about this movie is grounded in a range of specific complaints rather than just some vague generalizations?

I openly admit that many (but certainly not all) of my critcisms with the movie are minor rather than major flaws. And Singer's movies also had minor flaws. But here's the thing: X3 had so much more minor flaws than X2, that if X2's minor flaws filled a cup then X3's minor flaws would fill a bucket. And all those minor flaws add up to a very flawed movie.

But guess what, I have defended practically every single one of my criticisms in this thread, to the point that you people who defend X3 don't know what X3 apologist BS responses to come up with anymore, and yet you all still refuse to admit that maybe I am actually making some valid points.

You can't stand that people on these boards exagerrate how bad X3 was. Well I can't stand that people on these boards fancy that X3 is on par with X2.

 

[X-Maniac]

In X1, Wolverine gives the nearly-dead Rogue his healing power to revive her. Then all his old wounds re-open. How can this be? Surely, once his wounds have been healed, that's the end of that. Not having a healing power would mean he wouldn't heal from future wounds, but it wouldn't reopen wounds from which he had already healed.

Also in X1, the X-Men enter the head of the Statue of Liberty. Wolverine shouts for everyone to leave and is then magnetically pulled on to the side of the room. Pieces of metal reach out like tendrils, grab the other X-Men and pull everyone else to the side of the room. It's at that point that Magneto descends into the chamber. How did he know where to direct the metal strips without seeing where the other X-Men were? That part has always bugged me.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

But guess what, I have defended practically every single one of my criticisms in this thread, to the point that you people who defend X3 don't know what X3 apologist BS responses to come up with anymore, and yet you all still refuse to admit that maybe I am actually making some valid points.

Don't give yourself too much credit. It has nothing to do with the quality of your arguements "shutting me up" due to a lack of a comeback, but rather the absurdity of the arguement at hand that I don't even believe warrants counter-arguing.

Just because I am expressing all of my reasons for disliking the movie in this thread, does not mean I am some nitpicker.

Okay, well then let me see actual reasons for disliking the movie, not just blindly ripping the movie to shreds, *****ing about what didn't happen, just because it's the opposite of what did happen so it must inherently be better. Please explain to me why what you're mentioning is more than just a nitpick, and actually something worth arguing.

Do I agree that perhaps it could have helped the story? Maybe. It couldn't have hurt it. Until you mentioned it, it was something that I never would have even allowed to pass through my mind. I think the movie conveys pretty well that Magneto needs to be stopped, at all costs, and that the cure is the only way to do that. It seems a bit cliche, and was very predictable, but it's definatley not bad writing, and indeed, is a "nitpick".

If having problems with such major plot points as Magneto going against the essence of his character by hypocritically planning to utilize the cure created by his own oppressors against his own kind, or the X-MEN deciding to use the cure against Magneto when it hasn't been adequately demonstrated that they have no other choice, is "nitpicking trivial aspects" then I don't understand what isn't.

It's not going against the essence of his character. Magneto has always been a walking hypocrasy. The man who suffered through the Nazi concentration camps, but now uses Nazi-like methods to achieve his goals of mutant superiority. The man who believes in mutant superiority, and has an undying respect for Charles Xavier, but stands against his own kind and Xavier's "soldiers" in the X-Men, and has done very viscious things to them in the past because they don't stand beside him and his cause. It does not seem out of character at all for him to use this cure to his advantage against those who would oppose him in his conquest of mutant superiority. I mean, he did attempt to sacrifice one of his own for the "greater cause", why would he be against curing them for the greater cause? A basic understanding of the source material would allow you to understand that it is not against the essence of the character to do such a thing, so yes, complaining about this is just complaining about it because it happened in the film.

So, please enlighten me. What non-trivial, non-nitpick faults do you find with the movie?

You want to know what I find to be faulty in this film? I'll explain it in another post, this one is gonna be long enough as it is.

Why does it bother you that my negative opinion about this movie is grounded in a range of specific complaints rather than just some vague generalizations?

Because those "specific complaints" aren't specific complaints about the quality of this movie. X3 bashers want to make it about the quality of the movie, to try to support their arguement that X3 is a horrible movie, and that Ratner, Kinberg, and Penn are all horrible human beings who much suffer a slow and painful death before burning in eternal damnation in the 7th layer of hell.

The jabungous nitpicking around here are complaints about the same kinds of plot holes and plot conveniences that occur in X-Men, X2, and pretty much any other fictional film that has ever been made. Especially in the sci-fi / fantasy genre, where real world science and physics get thrown out the window. I mean, people *****ing because the Brotherhood didn't get hurt when the bridge dropped?! Oh my ****ing god, are you serious? Yes, SCIENTIFICALLY, they would have been hurt upon the dropping of the bridge. But guess what? It's a movie. Not reality. Things like that can happen and there needn't be an explanation. If things like this are what you're complaining about, then quite frankly, perhaps fiction isn't for you.

I openly admit that many (but certainly not all) of my critcisms with the movie are minor rather than major flaws. And Singer's movies also had minor flaws. But here's the thing: X3 had so much more minor flaws than X2, that if X2's minor flaws filled a cup then X3's minor flaws would fill a bucket. And all those minor flaws add up to a very flawed movie.

X-Men: The Last Stand actually didn't really have anymore plot points than the others. X-Men has a very HUGE plot hole that the entire movie is dependant on. You know, the fact that without a Cerebro of his own, Magneto knew about a random mutant in Meridian, Mississippi, with a power that was totally convenient for his plan, and happened to know that she was up in Canada with Wolverine. And the fact that, when it was actually Rogue that Magneto was tracking, Xavier knew about some random mutant in Wolverine, where it was he was exactly at to send the X-Men to get him, thinking it was him Magneto was tracking, when it was really Rogue anyways, so until they met at the bar, there should have been absolutley no connection between the 2.

But Bryan Singer did that, so the fanboys will fight tooth and nail to come up with explanations that were NEVER ESTABLISHED IN THE MOVIE AND IS COMPLETE AND UTTER HERESAY AND MAKE BELIEVE BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE STORY to justify why there's an explanation behind it, and to back up their arguement will claim that I'm bashing X-Men to make The Last Stand look good.

You can't stand that people on these boards exagerrate how bad X3 was. Well I can't stand that people on these boards fancy that X3 is on par with X2.

I don't care how bad people think X-Men: The Last Stand was. I do believe they exagerrate how bad it was. But what it is that I can't stand is people *****ing about everything that happened in the movie just because it happened in the movie. If somebody has a problem with the film, then I want to hear what those problems are. But when they start complaining about how long the bridge is, whether or not the Brotherhood got hurt when it dropped, or whether Storm fired a pointless bolt of lightning at Magneto or not, is NOT a problem with the film. It's a problem with you, and your need to continuously ***** about everything in this film because you need to rip it apart to shreds for some unknown reason.

 

[X-Maniac]

Guard, I am disappointed. That you of all people defending X3 would dismiss my suggestion for Storm firing lightning at Magneto as superfluous action, when I clearly suggested it because Storm is vehemently against the cure, let alone in weaponized form, and so it goes completely against her established character for her to resort to using it without even attempting to take out Magneto with her own powers. After that failed, let's say because Magneto simply channeled the lightning into an electical forcefield, then the X-MEN would truly have been forced to resort to using the cure.

I would love to see a more various display of Storm's powers, and the writers could have written it in. But if Storm's most effective power is lightning in a particular situation, then she shouldn't be going out of her way to mix things up just for the sake of not being redundant. It's a fight, not a dance.

Instead of just hiding, she could have generated wind to blow the cars away, or strike them with lightning in midair before they have a chance to crash down.

Storm did not fry Magneto at Liberty Island because they were in a giant copper conductor. If you had read my previous posts, you would see that I brought this up as an example of Singer and his writers actually trying to provide an explanation for Storm's inaction, as opposed to Ratner. And sure, she could have risked a precision lightning strike at Magneto when he floats up out of the Statue, but then Sabretooth would have just gutted her and the rest.

As for not frying Jason Stryker, that would be a valid complaint... if she failed to do anything to defeat him. But she did defeat him, using severe cold instead of lightning, which was a nice change of pace of her powers. So what exactly is the problem here?

As for not frying the Sentinel, well yeah she sure as hell could have. I guess she didn't fry the Sentinel because she was trying to teach the X-Kids teamwork, like give them a chance to defeat it's since it's training for their sake, not hers. But I'm not going to defend the Danger Room scene, which I find nonsensical for several reasons.

When people are as super-powered as the X-Men, you have to introduce some inaction in order to create suspense. We saw this with Storm in X1 and X2 when she was slow to muster a response against Toad, when she did nothing inside the head of the statue, when she did nothing to slow the descent of the missile-hit X-jet or try to lift the powerless X-jet at Alkali Lake.

Similar things happen in the comics. In one issue, Magneto just froze all the X-Men by seizing control of the iron in their blood. Casting aside the bad science (iron in the blood is not in a metallic, magnetisable form, but in a compound called haemoglobin), why didn't Magneto do that whenever the X-Men were a threat? In another issue, he wrapped himself in a magnetic force field that rendered him invisible (magnetism itself is invisible, but it wouldn't make him so!?). In early X-Men comics he was able to astrally project a living likeness of himself along the earth's magnetic field. There are many other inconsistencies and conveniences throughout the comics.

It therefore seems part of the creative process of storytelling for superhuman characters that sometimes they are especially powerful, other times less so.

I agree that Storm didn't do enough on Alcatraz, and that I'd have liked at some point in the three movies to see Magneto's forcefield and her lightning deflecting off it. But Magneto's forcefield would probably make him too invincible and that's why we've not seen it so far in the movies. Even the forcefield bubble in the machine in X1 was not impenetrable or protective - Wolverine dropped down inside it and Cyclops fired his blast through it.

On Alcatraz Storm does summon fog with some strain or concentration that implies a difficulty with her powers - I initially thought she was drained physically and/or electrically from her fight with Callisto, which prevented her doing much more than the pretty simple action of drawing moisture off the surrounding water. The novel says that her powers were hampered by Pyro's fires (though they weren't that severe in the movie) and by Magneto's magnetic fields (which weren't mentioned). A line from Storm saying 'Magneto's creating some kind of magnetic interference across the island.' might have helped, but since I assumed in the movie that she'd had the strength knocked out of her by Callisto's attack and by the lightning she responded with, I didn't really mind her not suddenly turning into a weather diva. The flash flood scene, which annoyingly was cut, and which showed her pulling all the moisture and energy down from the skies into a concentrated downpour would also indicate that the atmosphere had been drained of much of its energy, so for her to generate a storm was out of the question.

 

[Leon the Professional]

In X1, Wolverine gives the nearly-dead Rogue his healing power to revive her. Then all his old wounds re-open. How can this be? Surely, once his wounds have been healed, that's the end of that. Not having a healing power would mean he wouldn't heal from future wounds, but it wouldn't reopen wounds from which he had already healed.

Also in X1, the X-Men enter the head of the Statue of Liberty. Wolverine shouts for everyone to leave and is then magnetically pulled on to the side of the room. Pieces of metal reach out like tendrils, grab the other X-Men and pull everyone else to the side of the room. It's at that point that Magneto descends into the chamber. How did he know where to direct the metal strips without seeing where the other X-Men were? That part has always bugged me.

Friend, while debating with you over inconsistencies in X1/X2, I myself brought up that it makes no sense whatsoever for Wolverine's wounds to have re-opened in that scene. I made this very same criticism as an example of Singer's movies having flaws as well. So I don't understand why you are telling me this.

Magneto directing the metal strips without seeing the X-MEN, I have never been bothered by, since Magneto could very well have a sixth visual sense of "sight" based on electromagnetism. But I can see how the plausibility of this is up for debate.

 

[Leon the Professional]

When people are as super-powered as the X-Men, you have to introduce some inaction in order to create suspense. We saw this with Storm in X1 and X2 when she was slow to muster a response against Toad, when she did nothing inside the head of the statue, when she did nothing to slow the descent of the missile-hit X-jet or try to lift the powerless X-jet at Alkali Lake.

Similar things happen in the comics. In one issue, Magneto just froze all the X-Men by seizing control of the iron in their blood. Casting aside the bad science (iron in the blood is not in a metallic, magnetisable form, but in a compound called haemoglobin), why didn't Magneto do that whenever the X-Men were a threat? In another issue, he wrapped himself in a magnetic force field that rendered him invisible (magnetism itself is invisible, but it wouldn't make him so!?). In early X-Men comics he was able to astrally project a living likeness of himself along the earth's magnetic field. There are many other inconsistencies and conveniences throughout the comics.

It therefore seems part of the creative process of storytelling for superhuman characters that sometimes they are especially powerful, other times less so.

I agree that Storm didn't do enough on Alcatraz, and that I'd have liked at some point in the three movies to see Magneto's forcefield and her lightning deflecting off it. But Magneto's forcefield would probably make him too invincible and that's why we've not seen it so far in the movies. Even the forcefield bubble in the machine in X1 was not impenetrable or protective - Wolverine dropped down inside it and Cyclops fired his blast through it.

On Alcatraz Storm does summon fog with some strain or concentration that implies a difficulty with her powers - I initially thought she was drained physically and/or electrically from her fight with Callisto, which prevented her doing much more than the pretty simple action of drawing moisture off the surrounding water. The novel says that her powers were hampered by Pyro's fires (though they weren't that severe in the movie) and by Magneto's magnetic fields (which weren't mentioned). A line from Storm saying 'Magneto's creating some kind of magnetic interference across the island.' might have helped, but since I assumed in the movie that she'd had the strength knocked out of her by Callisto's attack and by the lightning she responded with, I didn't really mind her not suddenly turning into a weather diva. The flash flood scene, which annoyingly was cut, and which showed her pulling all the moisture and energy down from the skies into a concentrated downpour would also indicate that the atmosphere had been drained of much of its energy, so for her to generate a storm was out of the question.

How on earth can you keep on arguing your case while completely ignoring that the issues of Storm versus Toad, Storm's doing nothing in the Statue Head, Storm not slowign the descent of the jet, and Storm not raising the jet have all been addressed in our previous debate, and I gave reasonable explanations for all of those scenes which you had no counter-argument for(except for Storm versus Toad, which we both agreed was screwy).

HOW?

I just don't understand. What was even the point of debating if you can't learn from the debate?

And the comics are filled with instances of inconsistencies and bad writing, that's no excuse for the movies to be poorly written.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So, please enlighten me. What non-trivial, non-nitpick faults do you find with the movie?

Here's what I found to be "bad storytelling" with this film;

• Angel's Arc: We first see him as a young boy trying to cut off his wings in the bathroom. We later find out that he's trying to hide it from his father, because he wants to make his father proud. Okay, so far so good. The next time we see him, he's a grown man going in to get the cure. But he suddenly decides to reject the cure. Okay, we can kind of follow along with it. But then there, it's over. He conveniently arrives at the mansion when it's about to be closed down (another topic I will hit on later), and conveniently arrives when his father is thrown over a balcony. There is absolutley no connection what so ever between his scenes, they just happen. There is no explanation given at all as to why he decides to embrace his mutation and accept his wings, and accept his father's cure (at the last minute, no less, when he had already gone to the lab to get the cure. If it's just "what you want", and not what he wanted, why did he go in the first place?) Angel is given absolutley no kind of payoff what so ever with his set up. The arc of "forgiveness & freedom" that many people claim, is lost in the randomness of his character and where he shows up. I can't even say Angel's character was written bad, because from the looks of things, I don't even think Angel's character was written.
• Jean's rising. Like, not even the acting in this scene could save the bad writing. I'll admit, the Phoenix Saga isn't as special to me as it is to many. But this scene should have been epic. It starts off epic. With Cyclops riding to Alkali Lake, the shots of him, the lake, Jean's voice calling to him from the lake, the music, everything. Until she rises. And the camera turns to just show her standing there. And it's like "?" Even as an X-Men fan who knows what's going on, I was like "Wha?!" And the dialogue is even worse. "Jean? Scott? How? I dunno? I wanna see your eyes. Take these off. I can control it now. Trust me, you can't hurt me." and then BAM! he's dead. Let's forget about how horrible it is to the source material to kill off FREAKING CYCLOPS, it's also just written bad. It is blatantly obvious from Storm's dialogue with Xavier that Scott's getting killed off in this one. It's not even dramatic.
• Speaking of Storm's dialogue with Xavier. "There's something you're not telling us." Oh yea? Like what? Why is there this big thing that's mentioned that's never followed up on? Oh yea, "There's something you're not telling us" sounds cool. It adds shock value. If you're going to establish something, at least try to build upon it.
• Going back to Jean's arrival, and the death of Cyclops; When Storm and Wolverine arrive at Alkali Lake, why do they find Jean unconcious on the ground? Jean / Phoenix is never shown, in THIS film, with her full capabilities, to exhaust her power. This is just like Storm's dialogue with Xavier. If you're going to try to add something for the element of mystery, it's best to follow up on it.
• Where was Storm when Xavier was explaining what happened to Jean? Seeing as how Storm knew Jean for quite a lot longer than Wolverine, and was like a sister to her, and one of Xavier's original students, that she'd be there wanting to know what happened.
• Magneto has Multiple Man and Pyro with him in his underground base, along with Callisto and Arclight (and we can assume that Quill is there as well). How come when we see them next, at Jean's house, Pyro and Multiple Man are missing?*
• On the same level, how come we see Psylocke in the church meeting, never see her again throughout the movie, until she randomly appears in Worthington Labs to get Warren Worthington? Um... Psylocke wasn't among the group of mutants Magneto told to go get Worthington... why did she just suddenly, and randomly appear?*
• The fact that an entire plot arc or character arc, whatever you want to call it, is established with Storm's feelings towards the cure, but it is something that is never touched upon again after the first 15 minutes of the film. That's a pretty major aspect of a character to just ignore once it's out there. It's how this character (a main character) plays into your main plot line. This aspect really would have given Halle Berry something to do with the role. But instead, Halle thinks that flying is Storm doing something meaningful...
• Wolverine's speech to the X-Men before going to Alcatraz. Okay, first off, the original was better. And not just because it was closer to the source material, but because it was closer to the movie. Earlier in the film, we see Beast wanting to shut down the school (another point I will touch on later). During that conversation, Iceman stands up for the school, saying "I can't believe we're not going to fight for this school". Okay, he has a loyalty for this school, and he's willing to fight for it. That is established. How come during this speech, he's reluctant, and Wolverine has to convince him? The original would have been better on EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. Unfortunatley, it looks like studio politics got into the way again.*
• Now, I mentioned the conversation to close down Xavier's school. How come Beast, one of Xavier's original students, wants to honor his mentor's memory by closing down his school? That doesn't make sense to me. To make matters even worse, the guy who wants to close down the school, shows happiness when Storm decides to keep it open. Make up your mind dude (or should I say, writers?)*
• The entire day & night thing from Multiple Man in Magneto's camp, to the invasion of Alcatraz, is just simply careless. It might be a minor thing, but it's careless.*

* = Areas that I labelled with a "*" I consider to be "nitpicks". They are just things that I noticed while watching this film many many times that I find to be questionable, but are areas that don't really determine quality of the storytelling.

These are all of the things that I can think of right now. There may be more.

While I believe this was a very good movie, and not poorly made in the least bit, I also believe that it is the worst made of the 3. I believe that Bryan Singer was better at telling his stories than Brett Ratner was. I happen to believe, though, that Brett Ratner told a better story. Because of this, this is why I feel X-Men: The Last Stand is on the same level as X2. It has a much better story that is told quite brilliantly when it needs to be (for each individual piece of bad storytelling, I could find 2 or 3 areas that I found to be good storytelling). On the whole, though, Bryan Singer told his stories better.

A Bryan Singer X3, I don't know if it would have had a lot of the elements that I feel make X-Men: The Last Stand a great X-Men movie. But I am totally confident than a Singer X3 would not have had the flaws of X-Men: The Last Stand. It'd definatley be a much more consistant movie. Better? I don't know. But better crafted.

My friend who I saw the midnight showing with called X-Men: The Last Stand a storyboard film. They had ideas of individual scenes that they loved, and they just jumped to them. Many people have had the same description with different words. I feel this is at least somewhat accurate, as there does seem to be a sense of randomness with what happens. Like I stated in my list, there are scenes where characters just randomly appear or disappear when they are needed. This to me shows a more "storyboard" method of storytelling with lesser regard for connecting the dots. I do feel this is a flaw of the film, and one of the things that holds it back from being what it could be. I don't feel that X-Men and X2 "could have been" so much better. Their stories were told brilliantly. I just don't think they told as good a story. X-Men: The Last Stand, on the other hand, is a movie to me that could have been so much better. It is telling a much better story, but the deficiencies are obvious. It doesn't hurt the film for me as much as it does others, as I still find it to be a quality film, and an excellent X-Men film. Others don't. And I can see why others would dislike the film. I just hate some of their reasoning, when there are things perfectly valid about this film to bash, and you don't need to resort to nitpicking.

And, for the record, I don't feel my list is inherently "better" than anyone else's lists. I don't think my concerns are valid, and anyone else's aren't. But I do feel that there are certain complaints that are based in perspective and logic, and others that aren't, and I tend to see many complaints that don't come off to me as the kind that are based in perspective and logic.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Don't give yourself too much credit. It has nothing to do with the quality of your arguements "shutting me up" due to a lack of a comeback, but rather the absurdity of the arguement at hand that I don't even believe warrants counter-arguing.



Okay, well then let me see actual reasons for disliking the movie, not just blindly ripping the movie to shreds, *****ing about what didn't happen, just because it's the opposite of what did happen so it must inherently be better. Please explain to me why what you're mentioning is more than just a nitpick, and actually something worth arguing.

Do I agree that perhaps it could have helped the story? Maybe. It couldn't have hurt it. Until you mentioned it, it was something that I never would have even allowed to pass through my mind. I think the movie conveys pretty well that Magneto needs to be stopped, at all costs, and that the cure is the only way to do that. It seems a bit cliche, and was very predictable, but it's definatley not bad writing, and indeed, is a "nitpick".



It's not going against the essence of his character. Magneto has always been a walking hypocrasy. The man who suffered through the Nazi concentration camps, but now uses Nazi-like methods to achieve his goals of mutant superiority. The man who believes in mutant superiority, and has an undying respect for Charles Xavier, but stands against his own kind and Xavier's "soldiers" in the X-Men, and has done very viscious things to them in the past because they don't stand beside him and his cause. It does not seem out of character at all for him to use this cure to his advantage against those who would oppose him in his conquest of mutant superiority. I mean, he did attempt to sacrifice one of his own for the "greater cause", why would he be against curing them for the greater cause? A basic understanding of the source material would allow you to understand that it is not against the essence of the character to do such a thing, so yes, complaining about this is just complaining about it because it happened in the film.



You want to know what I find to be faulty in this film? I'll explain it in another post, this one is gonna be long enough as it is.



Because those "specific complaints" aren't specific complaints about the quality of this movie. X3 bashers want to make it about the quality of the movie, to try to support their arguement that X3 is a horrible movie, and that Ratner, Kinberg, and Penn are all horrible human beings who much suffer a slow and painful death before burning in eternal damnation in the 7th layer of hell.

The jabungous nitpicking around here are complaints about the same kinds of plot holes and plot conveniences that occur in X-Men, X2, and pretty much any other fictional film that has ever been made. Especially in the sci-fi / fantasy genre, where real world science and physics get thrown out the window. I mean, people *****ing because the Brotherhood didn't get hurt when the bridge dropped?! Oh my ****ing god, are you serious? Yes, SCIENTIFICALLY, they would have been hurt upon the dropping of the bridge. But guess what? It's a movie. Not reality. Things like that can happen and there needn't be an explanation. If things like this are what you're complaining about, then quite frankly, perhaps fiction isn't for you.



X-Men: The Last Stand actually didn't really have anymore plot points than the others. X-Men has a very HUGE plot hole that the entire movie is dependant on. You know, the fact that without a Cerebro of his own, Magneto knew about a random mutant in Meridian, Mississippi, with a power that was totally convenient for his plan, and happened to know that she was up in Canada with Wolverine. And the fact that, when it was actually Rogue that Magneto was tracking, Xavier knew about some random mutant in Wolverine, where it was he was exactly at to send the X-Men to get him, thinking it was him Magneto was tracking, when it was really Rogue anyways, so until they met at the bar, there should have been absolutley no connection between the 2.

But Bryan Singer did that, so the fanboys will fight tooth and nail to come up with explanations that were NEVER ESTABLISHED IN THE MOVIE AND IS COMPLETE AND UTTER HERESAY AND MAKE BELIEVE BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE STORY to justify why there's an explanation behind it, and to back up their arguement will claim that I'm bashing X-Men to make The Last Stand look good.



I don't care how bad people think X-Men: The Last Stand was. I do believe they exagerrate how bad it was. But what it is that I can't stand is people *****ing about everything that happened in the movie just because it happened in the movie. If somebody has a problem with the film, then I want to hear what those problems are. But when they start complaining about how long the bridge is, whether or not the Brotherhood got hurt when it dropped, or whether Storm fired a pointless bolt of lightning at Magneto or not, is NOT a problem with the film. It's a problem with you, and your need to continuously ***** about everything in this film because you need to rip it apart to shreds for some unknown reason.

Okay, you know what. I am not going to bother discussing with you if you have to resort to insulting me and cursing at me to make your point, and dismissing me as just some Singer fanboy.

Losing your cool in a debate every now and then is understandable, I do it myself. But your posts are just permeated with hatefulness. There is a difference between arguing your case strongly and arguing your case rudely.

You can take this as me giving up if you want, I don't care. I haven't backed down from my stance yet, and I'll gladly respond to everything you wrote if you calm down and start posting to me with some respect.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Actually, I think I may have to just bow out here, because I'm wasting too much time posting in this thread, and it distracts me too much from my studying. Not to mention debating is undproductive when the people debating are entirely unwilling to accept being proven wrong even when they're out of counter-arguments.

I've argued my stance thoroughly for many pages, providing well-thought out bases for my opinions.

Anyone who wants to dismiss me as some Singer fanboy nitpicker who's finally giving up his case, go ahead.

 

[X-Maniac]

How on earth can you keep on arguing your case while completely ignoring that the issues of Storm versus Toad, Storm's doing nothing in the Statue Head, Storm not slowign the descent of the jet, and Storm not raising the jet have all been addressed in our previous debate, and I gave reasonable explanations for all of those scenes which you had no counter-argument for(except for Storm versus Toad, which we both agreed was screwy).

HOW?

I just don't understand. What was even the point of debating if you can't learn from the debate?

And the comics are filled with instances of inconsistencies and bad writing, that's no excuse for the movies to be poorly written.

Because your possibilties are not the only possibilities. And you are keen to make ridiculous allowances such as Magneto having a visual sixth sense.

Storm could have done much more against Toad, Storm could have done much more in the statue head, she could have done much more when Wolverine was wanting to be raised to the machine, she could have done much more when the jet was plumeting, she could have done more when the jet needed raising. Nothing was mentioned. Magneto sarcastically dismissed the possibility of lightning in the statue head, but she can do much more than that.

She didn't because it wasn't her moment to shine.

Even though she could somehow pilot a jet in X2 and create tornadoes at the same time - never mind that being electrically charged while using her powers would have made piloting the jet's controls out of the question. In the novel they account for this, in the movie they do not. And where were Storm and Cyclops when Magneto walked through the rubble of the train station in X1, having captured Rogue? Why didn't Storm at least stick around to try to stop Magneto.

Because it wasn't her moment to shine. We needed some suspense, we needed to see others in the spotlight.

That's your anwer. Plain and simple. The X-Men have to look like they are sometimes in danger. The same applies to when they are cowering behind cars on Alcatraz. That's why Storm doesn't suddenly rise up as a weather goddess. The fight with Callisto 'knocked the stuffing out of her', as they say, and she is seen concentrating hard to generate some fog.