If you Don't like the movie - POST HERE

[flavio_lebeau]

I don't feel like discussing it. X-Maniac, our posts rely essentially on opinions, and as thus, they are imutable in this case. You think the colors of Superman aren't that vibrant. I think X3 had no character development. And so it goes...

 

[X-Maniac]

Really? IMO it was rather artistic. Like an atmosphere of old, the colour of "past" newspapers.

Maybe, but i don't think nostalgic was the way to go. This is Superman not Sepia-man!

But... don't you think there wasn't a mood, an atmosphere to make us care for the characters? Like any work of art, if there's no atmosphere, there's no life. That's what I felt from the movie

Well, the atmosphere was certainly different from Singer's X-movies. But X3 obviously had a mood and a style from the opening flashbacks onwards. X3 didn't have Singer's darker mood, but then it wasn't Singer directing so i wasn't really expecting that. Sometimes the mood worked, sometimes it didn't. Remember, Singer and his entire creative team moved on, so X3 had an entirely new creative team. I admit some wrong steps were taken along the way. Perhaps a better opening scene for X3 would have been Jean dramatically and emotionally seeing her friend Annie killed by a car, Jean's powers emerging to destroy the car and psychically bond with Annie, and then Xavier's visit to the house, leading to him having to put in the blocks to stop her unstable powers. Storm was not quite right in some of the dialogue scenes (with Rogue and Logan) and there probably wasn't enough Angel for him to connect completely (there is an additional scene of dialogue with his father in the novelisation that could have worked well). Jean became a little empty after joining Magneto.

So, yes, there were winners and losers and a different atmosphere because of a different creative team. Surely Shuler-Donner, Arad and Winter had the responsibility of ensuring tonal consistency as they have been there from the beginning?

So what now? What's the next step for this franchise? What can be done, or should be done?

 

[kg576094]

I also don't think X3 has 'endless mistakes' and I don't think it's dumb or lacking character development (Angel, Beast, Storm, Cyclops, Wolverine, Xavier, Jean, Mystique, Rogue, all have character development)

You certainly have lots of love for Ratner...after watching the teaser for RH3, does anyone truly believe that this guy produce anything but crap?

I thought we have talked about this for months..the real problem with X3 was that character motivations (aka character development) were seriously lacking in all the characters in regard to the plot.
We hardly know why anyone reacted the way they did to the cure apart from Magneto and Rogue which had characterisations carried on from the previous movie anyway with nothing new to add to the table.
As for the phoenix, omg it's depressing..hardly a character at all apart from being a mean killing machine and we know as much of her as that electromagnetic machine in X1 with the added bonus that Xavier explained her functions slightly longer than the one in X1.
Well I have still some problems with the machine because of that. How do you explain how Magneto's machine work. How did his machine turn Senator Kelly into a jellyfish? Why not a chicken, donkey or oh my fav, ninja turtle or Godzilla?
I think everyone would love to see X-men vs. Godzilla in a epicness battle althought it has nothing to do with the plot.

 

[X-Maniac]

You certainly have lots of love for Ratner...after watching the teaser for RH3, does anyone truly believe that this guy produce anything but crap?

I thought we have talked about this for months..the real problem with X3 was that character motivations (aka character development) were seriously lacking in all the characters in regard to the plot.
We hardly know why anyone reacted the way they did to the cure apart from Magneto and Rogue which had characterisations carried on from the previous movie anyway with nothing new to add to the table.
As for the phoenix, omg it's depressing..hardly a character at all apart from being a mean killing machine and we know as much of her as that electromagnetic machine in X1 with the added bonus that Xavier explained her functions slightly longer than the one in X1.
Well I have still some problems with the machine because of that. How do you explain how Magneto's machine work. How did his machine turn Senator Kelly into a jellyfish? Why not a chicken, donkey or oh my fav, ninja turtle or Godzilla?
I think everyone would love to see X-men vs. Godzilla in a epicness battle althought it has nothing to do with the plot.

I think you've lost the plot completely! What does Senator Kelly being turned into a jellyfish have to do with X3?

In X1 they said the machine caused artificial, unnatural mutations in humans (like Kelly) and appeared to have no effect on mutants. Jean was affected, as was stated at the start of X2, so she must be a special mutant. Since no other mutant exposed to the machine has changed, it's logical to assume that the machine broke down (or started to break down) Xavier's psychic barriers and reawakened her other powers.

This makes sense. Her other powers were locked away in his subconscious and at the start of X2, Scott talks of her moving the room around while she sleeps and dreams. It's the subconscious that is active while you are asleep and dreaming.

Xavier's 'psychic blocks' are obviously not actual walls or blocks in a physical sense. He must have shut down the neural brain activity in or around an area of her mind, almost 'lobotomising' that part of her mind and making it almost like the brain of a normal human. So, just as Kelly became Senator Jelly, the radiation reawakened the dead part of Jean's mind and reactivated her X-gene to its full potential. Simple.

I don't know why we have to go over all this again or what it has to do with X3. X3 showed Jean trying to deal with the full power that had been expanding through X2.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I think you've lost the plot completely! What does Senator Kelly being turned into a jellyfish have to do with X3?

In X1 they said the machine caused artificial, unnatural mutations in humans (like Kelly) and appeared to have no effect on mutants. Jean was affected, as was stated at the start of X2, so she must be a special mutant. Since no other mutant exposed to the machine has changed, it's logical to assume that the machine broke down (or started to break down) Xavier's psychic barriers and reawakened her other powers.

This makes sense. Her other powers were locked away in his subconscious and at the start of X2, Scott talks of her moving the room around while she sleeps and dreams. It's the subconscious that is active while you are asleep and dreaming.

Xavier's 'psychic blocks' are obviously not actual walls or blocks in a physical sense. He must have shut down the neural brain activity in or around an area of her mind, almost 'lobotomising' that part of her mind and making it almost like the brain of a normal human. So, just as Kelly became Senator Jelly, the radiation reawakened the dead part of Jean's mind and reactivated her X-gene to its full potential. Simple.

I don't know why we have to go over all this again or what it has to do with X3. X3 showed Jean trying to deal with the full power that had been expanding through X2.

I completely agree with this theory. As I have stated before, the problem on Phoenix isn't the explanation of her powers, her origin, or the machine. I like all of this. To me, the problem is her development. Due to the short screentime, we don't get to know the struggle that Jean lives inside herself, we hardly see any fight between her two personalities. Unfortunately, once Phoenix takes over the first time (after no apparent threat), we hardly see Jean again. The problem is how the character of Phoenix is always superficial, or at least not as deeply explored as it should be.

 

[Rac]

What Singer said after seeing X3 was the comment 'unbelievable' and that he was impressed by what they had achieved in the time they had available (Beast, Angel, Danger Room, Sentinel, Juggernaut, Multiple Man, Morlocks, Magneto's action sequences with the bridge, Storm flying).

And unbelievable can mean anything. Bad or good. It's a matter of opinion. I personally can't think he liked it. But you all know it's not very good for your reputation if you go bashing your colleagues work at his premiere.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I completely agree with this theory. As I have stated before, the problem on Phoenix isn't the explanation of her powers, her origin, or the machine. I like all of this. To me, the problem is her development. Due to the short screentime, we don't get to know the struggle that Jean lives inside herself, we hardly see any fight between her two personalities. Unfortunately, once Phoenix takes over the first time (after no apparent threat), we hardly see Jean again. The problem is how the character of Phoenix is always superficial, or at least not as deeply explored as it should be.

I'll agree with that.

That is one of the problems that I had with this movie.

 

[Theweepeople]

Here is a list of 50 movies with the highest worldwide grosses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_top-grossing_movies_worldwide


It's very amusing that all of these films had smaller budgets than X3, yet all 50 made more money.

 

[X-Maniac]

I completely agree with this theory. As I have stated before, the problem on Phoenix isn't the explanation of her powers, her origin, or the machine. I like all of this. To me, the problem is her development. Due to the short screentime, we don't get to know the struggle that Jean lives inside herself, we hardly see any fight between her two personalities. Unfortunately, once Phoenix takes over the first time (after no apparent threat), we hardly see Jean again. The problem is how the character of Phoenix is always superficial, or at least not as deeply explored as it should be.

I agree with this as one of the film's disappointments. Fox has never been bothered about the Phoenix Saga - they are obsessed with Wolverine and Magneto.

Jean could have been shown doing much more in the movie - helping Magneto lift the bridge perhaps; protecting everyone on the bridge when it was abruptly lowered. She could even have transported the army to SF with a wormhole portal (she created a wormhole in the comics) that left her drained for much of the final battle. (this might have accounted well for her doing nothing during the battle)

There are a couple of other interpretations that are worth considering.

Dark Phoenix first seemed to start to emerge in X2 when a brainwashed Cyclops attacked Jean and her power erupted to stop him in a primal response that doesn't look or seem like Jean Grey at all. It's possible Dark Phoenix saw Cyclops as a threat and as a source of power. In calling him to the lake, Dark Phoenix was using his power to fully reawaken (Phoenix feeds on Scott's energy in the comicbook story Endsong) and then destroyed him because DP perceived him as her major threat, the man whose love could reach Jean and thus stop Dark Phoenix being in control.

The other thing is that Jean/Phoenix was obviously hesitant and unsure in X3, as shown by her walking away in the forest and by the deleted scene with the scared girl. As a doctor (in the movieverse anyway), Jean had taken a Hippocratic oath not to harm another human being. This might account for why Jean was standing around at the final battle - she didn't want to be in this conflict, she was attempting to stay in control. The other explanation is that she saw herself as so far above 'normal' mutants that what was going on was, to her, trivial and didn't matter in the scale of the cosmos.

The movie should have explored these things more, as they would have made the movie version of the Phoenix Saga more palatable.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

The problem is how the character of Phoenix is always superficial, or at least not as deeply explored as it should be.

If only it was just that.

X3 DP was not only wimpy, but indecisive.

And yes, I refuse to call refer to the character's "development" as an actual meaningful struggle. t:

Anyway... I've always been somewhat of a 'post-Hellfire DP Saga' hater. Well, pretty much anything to do with the f****n Shi'ar only gives me even more incentive, but whatever. Still, dear god, she/it has always been anything but that.

 

[gambitfire]

Okay, after months, I finally rented Superman Returns. And all I can say is: how I regret. I regret supporting X3 until May 26, and I regret not watching SR on cinemas. My effin bias didn't let me go there and watch it. I do regret it.

You see what you get for not having faith in Singer.

SR is, undoubtely, a beautiful looking, touching movie.

I feel the same way and i can't stand the character of superman.

Superman Returns is the best Superman movie ever, imo. Until months ago, I was still mad and sad about Brian, but damn, it's clear as the sunlight which recovers Clark that Singer is a-hell-of-a-mother*****in'-good-filmmaker. Beautifully shot, moving, touching. It's been a long time since me and my entire family had rooted for a character. It was a great experience.

Does the movie has flaws? Of course. Just like every movie. CG Superman sometimes look too much like CG Superman. Luthor's idea isn't exactly brilliant. The kryptonite thingg too. But you know what? Just like it happened to me in both X1 and X2, I could care less. Simply because I was so involved by the story and by those characters, that I couldn't pay attention to those mistakes to the point where they lessen my experience. Exactly like what happened to the first and second X-men movies. Exactly the opposite to what happened when I wathed X3. The movie was so weak at involving us to the story, that, to kill the time, you HAD to start paying attention to the endless mistakes, even if you didn't want to. Even if you closed your eyes to not see the mistakes, you would still hear the terrible dialogue.

GOD I COULD NOT POSSIBLY AGREE MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOU ROCK!!

The action in SR? I loved it, it has a great balance with the story. It's exactly what I wanted to see. I was afraid I would get bored, because some people said it doesn't have action at all. Well, I loved the action. So what if Superman doesn't get in brawl with a thug twice his size? Does a movie really need that to be considered good? I prefer that to a lackluster pretentious war that looks more like a raid in Paris with cars being torched up. I prefer the action that actualy makes you root for the hero, and not one where they look like headless chickens fighting whoever they see "just because". Just for the "wow" factor.

ROTFLMAO!!!

I couldn't help but get sad by the end of it, thinking how much X3 could be in Singer's hands. Go ahead, call me a Singernatic, a lover, I don't care. To me, it's as simple as 2+2=4 that Singer is a brilliant director.

I'm right there with'ya buddy.

The only way I can see X3 being better is when you put the name Summer behind the two movies. Is X3 a better summer movie? Sure, it's dumb, has action and no character development. Just what people want to see on the summer. But as movies, and I mean only movies, I think SR is hundreds, thousands, zillions better than X3. Both technically and emotionally. It's a real, real pity to me that Singer had to leave. I hand't notice his impact to a full extention until yesterday.

And if you prefer X3, ok, I understand, everything I just wrote is simply my opinion. But in my opinion, Jesus, what a pity we changed Singer for Ratner. Singer made two wonderful X-men movies, and made a wonderful Superman movie. His style, technique, careful direction, all the beautiful photography, the camera movements, the way he films Superman: he is a terrific director. So what if the cast gets stressed on set? We're not watching the movie to see the set, we want to see the end result. And the end result is simply marvelous. Singer is brilliant.

Are you my brain twin?

Seriously though, well said!

I loved SR even though i dislike the character himself (well i suppose i use to dislike). The movie made me feel for this guy, something that should be easy for a character like Rogue.

Yet i end up caring more for a man of steel that a young southern bell with a heart of gold.

Have i mentioned i hate FOX?

Really? IMO it was rather artistic. Like an atmosphere of old, the colour of "past" newspapers.

I found SR to be really colorful and inspiring, i have no idea where the gloomy statement would come from. SR was even more colorful than X3 (which was too colorful for the story it was trying to tell). X3 visual tone almost didn't take itself seriously.

That's all just my opinion though.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

You see what you get for not having faith in Singer.

I always knew Singer wouldn't make a bad movie, but I wasn't really interested in Superman. That's why it took me so long to rent the movie. I couldn't care less about Superman. I still don't, I didn't suddenly become a fan, but I analyze SR as a movie, and not as a super-hero movie. Not being a comic-book reader, I never see these kind of movies as "adaptations from the source material". I see them as...movies, simple films. As a movie, it's brilliant. As a super-hero movie, it's brilliant. And I loved Superman for some good two hours, though I don't wish to follow him after that. If they make a sequel though, i'll surely watch it on first week.

As a side note, even though SR is wonderful, I'd give everything to have Singer come back to X-men.

Oh, and thanks for the rest of your post, brain twin

 

[gambitfire]

i totally agree, i know X1 and X2 made deviations but as films they where good and attracted me as a viewer.

X3 lost me as a follower of two previous movies and a movie goer period.

I don't care about Superman i just like it when he teams up with Batman, their friendship and team agenda just works great on comic book panel and maybe even movie..

Did you ever see my deviant gallery where i poke fun of Superman and how ridiculously powerful he is?

 

[kg576094]

I completely agree with this theory. As I have stated before, the problem on Phoenix isn't the explanation of her powers, her origin, or the machine. I like all of this. To me, the problem is her development. Due to the short screentime, we don't get to know the struggle that Jean lives inside herself, we hardly see any fight between her two personalities. Unfortunately, once Phoenix takes over the first time (after no apparent threat), we hardly see Jean again. The problem is how the character of Phoenix is always superficial, or at least not as deeply explored as it should be.

Y'know, I really don't know how to express how much I hate the mental block explanation with a passion, because of how it made the Professor the single worst bastard in the whole trilogy and don't get me started on the caged beast analogy again (aka mental institution escapee).

 

[kg576094]

There are a couple of other interpretations that are worth considering.

Dark Phoenix first seemed to start to emerge in X2 when a brainwashed Cyclops attacked Jean and her power erupted to stop him in a primal response that doesn't look or seem like Jean Grey at all. It's possible Dark Phoenix saw Cyclops as a threat and as a source of power. In calling him to the lake, Dark Phoenix was using his power to fully reawaken (Phoenix feeds on Scott's energy in the comicbook story Endsong) and then destroyed him because DP perceived him as her major threat, the man whose love could reach Jean and thus stop Dark Phoenix being in control.

The other thing is that Jean/Phoenix was obviously hesitant and unsure in X3, as shown by her walking away in the forest and by the deleted scene with the scared girl. As a doctor (in the movieverse anyway), Jean had taken a Hippocratic oath not to harm another human being. This might account for why Jean was standing around at the final battle - she didn't want to be in this conflict, she was attempting to stay in control. The other explanation is that she saw herself as so far above 'normal' mutants that what was going on was, to her, trivial and didn't matter in the scale of the cosmos.

The movie should have explored these things more, as they would have made the movie version of the Phoenix Saga more palatable.

are you sure those were the intents of the director or writers, or are they one of those outworldly ridiculous interpretations of ur again?
C'mon X, we had all seen those storyboard visuals showing the scenes of the Phoenix's mass destruction, blowing up a city, flipping cars all about and wrecking a street beyond recognition...what we all saw in those storyboards were fricking amazing and worthy of her title as a cosmic being, or do you need me to dig out the thread again to show you?
Those storyboard ideas didnt just popped out of thin air and must clearly be in the script, so the Phoenix was definitely meant to do more than stand around looking dazed.

Although I'm pretty much a ratner hater, I really do not want to blame ratner for this because i don't noe whether or not it was the fox who screwed him over with the budget or he figured that the fans like himself will accept a Phoenix who does nothing at all or that some fans might even cook up reasons for the lack of any Phoenix physical actions. I'm more inclined to believe the former was true.
The Phoenix that we saw on film that did nothing at all was nothing more than a dead machine or a glorified walking timebomb.

 

[Theweepeople]

The Phoenix that we saw on film that did nothing at all was nothing more than a dead machine or a glorified walking timebomb.

Agreed. What's really bizzare is the results of Jean's destructive actions does not correlate well with Xavier's statement of "You have no idea what is upon us now". I thought Xavier was suggesting that the whole state, country, and possibly the world was in danger of the Phoenix. In reality I completely misinterpreted what Xavier was suggesting. Instead all Phoenix did was kill Charles, a few brotherhood mutants, and about 20 soilders in a failed pharmaceutical raid on Al-Catraz. I expected a lot more carnage from the most powerful mutant on the planet.

 

[gambitfire]

Best missed line ever....

Xavier: Don't let it control you.

OH TOO LATE IN YOUR FACE YOU TWO FACED OLD FART WHO ONCE STOOD FOR A GREATER CAUSE!!!

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I still don't see how what Xavier did turned him into a manipulative bastard....

I never got that part of him from the movie. It's just NOT there.

 

[BMM]

For me, I think it is the part where he performs the equivalent of a telepathic lobotomy on Jean without her consent/knowledge. Then, upon doing so, inadvertently creates a malevolent dual personality, which he doesn’t bother to tell her about. Moreover, he continues to have sessions with Jean during which he clearly comes into contact with this malevolent being… yet he tells her nothing, pretending everything is okay?

Regardless of Xavier’s intent, his decision is something that ultimately ruins Jean’s life. He knew the Phoenix existed (upon his tampering) and he kept it a secret from her. If it broke free, she wouldn’t know what hit her… and she didn’t. In the end, Phoenix kills Scott, the Professor, and countless others. It attempts to destroy everything that is important to her… and here’s the kicker, Jean is the one to pay for it with her life… while Xavier is literally able to walk away in a brand spankin’ new body. Like I said, if Chuck is brought back in an X-Men 4, he had better be feeling some serious remorse.

 

[X-Maniac]

Agreed. What's really bizzare is the results of Jean's destructive actions does not correlate well with Xavier's statement of "You have no idea what is upon us now". I thought Xavier was suggesting that the whole state, country, and possibly the world was in danger of the Phoenix. In reality I completely misinterpreted what Xavier was suggesting. Instead all Phoenix did was kill Charles, a few brotherhood mutants, and about 20 soilders in a failed pharmaceutical raid on Al-Catraz. I expected a lot more carnage from the most powerful mutant on the planet.

I sort of agree... but maybe the power of the Phoenix is not meant to be measured purely by its geographical spread! Her power was dangerous because it was rooted in her subconscious (and thus unable to be consciously controlled) - if the Dark Phoenix took over she had a capacity for acting on impulse and emotion, destroying things and taking human life without any conscience. When she whirls around at Alcatraz and her destructive aura atomises all those soldiers, that is in itself evidence of her (Dark Phoenix’s) lack of restraint and humanity.

The dangers of her subconscious actions are mentioned by Cyclops in the museum scene in X2 (he speaks of the bedroom furniture flying around!!) and her power emerging when she is under threat is also seen in X2 when the missile is about to strike and when a brainwashed Cyclops blaste her. X3 does acknowledge and include those ideas.

 

[X-Maniac]

For me, I think it is the part where he performs the equivalent of a telepathic lobotomy on Jean without her consent/knowledge. Then, upon doing so, inadvertently creates a malevolent dual personality, which he doesn’t bother to tell her about. Moreover, he continues to have sessions with Jean during which he clearly comes into contact with this malevolent being… yet he tells her nothing, pretending everything is okay?

Regardless of Xavier’s intent, his decision is something that ultimately ruins Jean’s life. He knew the Phoenix existed (upon his tampering) and he kept it a secret from her. If it broke free, she wouldn’t know what hit her… and she didn’t. In the end, Phoenix kills Scott, the Professor, and countless others. It attempts to destroy everything that is important to her… and here’s the kicker, Jean is the one to pay for it with her life… while Xavier is literally able to walk away in a brand spankin’ new body. Like I said, if Chuck is brought back in an X-Men 4, he had better be feeling some serious remorse.

But, still, he is not acting with malice or for evil or selfish purposes. He's doing what he feels is right because the vast power rooted in her subconscious makes her prone to the possibility of doing terrible things without conscious control or conscious knowledge. Having also seen comicbook stories in which Xavier has kept secrets (he pretended to die way back in the Original X-Men stories in which a metamorph took his place, he had another team of X-Men who died in Deadly Genesis, etc etc), I find no real problem in seeing a deeper background with secrets.

What I find bizarre is how indifferent Xavier is in X2, especially when (and after) Jean sacrifices herself. Whether or not you accept X3's retconning of her story to include mental blocks, he showed very little concern for her expanding power levels and dramatic choices. If she were evolving, he should have been concerned; if she were breaking free of mental blocks, he should be concerned. Some dialogue was needed to show his concerns, something like (in the plane at the end). Wolverine or Scott - 'What the hell's she doing? Her power's never been like this before.' Xavier 'I'm afraid it's beyond all of us, and now SHE is beyond all of us, there's nothing any of us can do.' There should have been something to hint at the mystery, greatness and ominous possibilities of it all, without giving the game away or necessarily pointing in any direction.

 

[TKing]

But, still, he is not acting with malice or for evil or selfish purposes. He's doing what he feels is right because the vast power rooted in her subconscious makes her prone to the possibility of doing terrible things without conscious control or conscious knowledge. Having also seen comicbook stories in which Xavier has kept secrets (he pretended to die way back in the Original X-Men stories in which a metamorph took his place, he had another team of X-Men who died in Deadly Genesis, etc etc), I find no real problem in seeing a deeper background with secrets.

What I find bizarre is how indifferent Xavier is in X2, especially when (and after) Jean sacrifices herself. Whether or not you accept X3's retconning of her story to include mental blocks, he showed very little concern for her expanding power levels and dramatic choices. If she were evolving, he should have been concerned; if she were breaking free of mental blocks, he should be concerned. Some dialogue was needed to show his concerns, something like (in the plane at the end). Wolverine or Scott - 'What the hell's she doing? Her power's never been like this before.' Xavier 'I'm afraid it's beyond all of us, and now SHE is beyond all of us, there's nothing any of us can do.' There should have been something to hint at the mystery, greatness and ominous possibilities of it all, without giving the game away or necessarily pointing in any direction.

I agree totally, though that is more of a fault of X2, than X3. So one point for the X3 'lovers' I would say.

 

[X-Maniac]

are you sure those were the intents of the director or writers, or are they one of those outworldly ridiculous interpretations of ur again?
C'mon X, we had all seen those storyboard visuals showing the scenes of the Phoenix's mass destruction, blowing up a city, flipping cars all about and wrecking a street beyond recognition...what we all saw in those storyboards were fricking amazing and worthy of her title as a cosmic being, or do you need me to dig out the thread again to show you?
Those storyboard ideas didnt just popped out of thin air and must clearly be in the script, so the Phoenix was definitely meant to do more than stand around looking dazed.

Although I'm pretty much a ratner hater, I really do not want to blame ratner for this because i don't noe whether or not it was the fox who screwed him over with the budget or he figured that the fans like himself will accept a Phoenix who does nothing at all or that some fans might even cook up reasons for the lack of any Phoenix physical actions. I'm more inclined to believe the former was true.
The Phoenix that we saw on film that did nothing at all was nothing more than a dead machine or a glorified walking timebomb.

I agree the storyboard visuals were amazing. And I wish they'd been in the movie as real scenes or as a premonition dream sequence or telepathic projection - either perceived by Xavier or projected by her into Wolverine's mind as she toyed with him when he approached her on Alcatraz.

But we don't know when those storyboards were done. Since the original script had the battle ending in Washington and the storyboards show Phoenix destroying SF and shooting across the water to Alcatraz, they might not been part of the movie production at all. They could have been done at a very early stage and then been scrapped, or they could have been done later on to compensate for the way Phoenix ends up appearing in the movie.

I agree the movie could have shown some awesome visuals of the Phoenix effect, of the waters being parted and of Phoenix destroying SF. The original storyboards also showed the rising water folding over the island into a dome. That too would have been awesome and very original. For reasons we don't really know, this didn't happen. However, I did like the rising tendrils of water like the Phoenix talons gripping the island.

 

[BMM]

But, still, he is not acting with malice or for evil or selfish purposes. He's doing what he feels is right because the vast power rooted in her subconscious makes her prone to the possibility of doing terrible things without conscious control or conscious knowledge. Having also seen comicbook stories in which Xavier has kept secrets (he pretended to die way back in the Original X-Men stories in which a metamorph took his place, he had another team of X-Men who died in Deadly Genesis, etc etc), I find no real problem in seeing a deeper background with secrets.

I never said he was acting with malice or for evil or selfish purposes. Regardless, his actions are still manipulative. Xavier schemes to enter Jean's mind without her knowledge and block her own powers from her, all the while keeping it a secret. It doesn't matter what his intent was, his actions are still manipulative. These actions may not qualify as “bastard-like” (I would reserve that title for his unnecessary and random rebuking of Wolverine, as though Wolverine is the problem), but I would say they qualify as manipulative.

What I find bizarre is how indifferent Xavier is in X2, especially when (and after) Jean sacrifices herself. Whether or not you accept X3's retconning of her story to include mental blocks, he showed very little concern for her expanding power levels and dramatic choices. If she were evolving, he should have been concerned; if she were breaking free of mental blocks, he should be concerned.

I would find it bizarre that Xavier showed little concern for Jean's expanding power level had he been by her side in her and Scott's bedroom, or at the museum, or on the X-Jet, or within Stryker's base... but the fact is, he wasn't... and prior to The Last Stand's exposition regarding Phoenix, Xavier wasn't in the business of prying into his students' minds and nosing around their personal business.

Besides, I rather like the notion of the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix ominously sneeking up on the X-Men (including Xavier), without anyone knowing what's upon them before it's too late. That's how it is in the books and that's half the fun of the story.

Some dialogue was needed to show his concerns, something like (in the plane at the end). Wolverine or Scott - 'What the hell's she doing? Her power's never been like this before.' Xavier 'I'm afraid it's beyond all of us, and now SHE is beyond all of us, there's nothing any of us can do.' There should have been something to hint at the mystery, greatness and ominous possibilities of it all, without giving the game away or necessarily pointing in any direction.

I don't think this shows Xavier's concern for Jean so much as it just serves as an additional verbal explanation of something that's already been shown visually. It's quite clear that Jean's plight is beyond them all, and that there is nothing any of them can do.

 

[X-Maniac]

I never said he was acting with malice or for evil or selfish purposes. Regardless, his actions are still manipulative. Xavier schemes to enter Jean's mind without her knowledge and block her own powers from her, all the while keeping it a secret. It doesn't matter what his intent was, his actions are still manipulative. These actions may not qualify as “bastard-like” (I would reserve that title for his unnecessary and random rebuking of Wolverine, as though Wolverine is the problem), but I would say they qualify as manipulative.

I don't see it that way at all. A parent or guardian or teacher might 'control' a child's behaviour or keep information from them or tell them things that are not true because they feel the child is not capable of handling the truth or dealing with it responsibly. Small children are not given huge amounts of money or allowed to drive cars or motorcycles or have knives or guns (at least they shouldn't be, in any proper parenting system). Xavier felt forced into blocking off vast amounts of Jean's powers so that she couldn't subconsciously/instinctively access it when she had a tantrum or a bout of brattish behaviour. He was obviously helping her to control her powers, and perhaps expand her conscious power access ('He's teaching me to develop it'), but he couldn't have foreseen the effects of Magneto's machine.

I would find it bizarre that Xavier showed little concern for Jean's expanding power level had he been by her side in her and Scott's bedroom, or at the museum, or on the X-Jet, or within Stryker's base... but the fact is, he wasn't... and prior to The Last Stand's exposition regarding Phoenix, Xavier wasn't in the business of prying into his students' minds and nosing around their personal business.

Well, Xavier certainly was attempting to pry into Magneto's mind outside the Senate hearing in X1, so he is not averse to nosing around at time, and I'm sure he couldn't help but do it sometimes, given the extent of his power. He senses the disturbance in the foodcourt in X2 and has no qualms about mentally paralysing everyone's motor functions.

To me it seems odd that he is so indifferent about what is happening to Jean when he is aboard the jet at the end and acting as a conduit for her thoughts. He is so accepting of it all.

I don't think this shows Xavier's concern for Jean so much as it just serves as an additional verbal explanation of something that's already been shown visually. It's quite clear that Jean's plight is beyond them all, and that there is nothing any of them can do.

Yes, perhaps you are right. My dialogue possibly didn't add anything. But i would have liked some dialogue of some kind to indicate concern from Xavier about Jean. Even if people do not accept the mental blocks retcon of X3 (I do, and it is more than justified by the deleted scene of X1 in which Logan asks Jean if Xavier is holding her back), Xavier would surely be concerned and/or surprised at Jean's power levels and her choice of what to do, given her previous weakness and hesitance.