In The Multiverse Of Madness Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Kane52630]

Doc Strange when he was a zombie.

 

[legendkillin]

Sorry to ask this again, but can anyone confirm on whether the Darkhold was enhancing Wanda's powers in this film? That was like the one thing I was unclear about.

Believe Wong mentioned it did provide a boost or extra spell abilities not possible without it. Though the 3 eyed Strange didn't use the book or seemed that much stronger by having an extra eye.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Sorry to ask this again, but can anyone confirm on whether the Darkhold was enhancing Wanda's powers in this film? That was like the one thing I was unclear about.

If you mean like she had to have it physically to do things as the Scarlet Witch above and beyond Wanda's previous know abilities, then I don't think so. As a source for additional information for something she had not come across in her earlier study of the book, like Dr. Strange did then yes

 

[legendkillin]

People keep expecting a scene like portals in Endgame in every movie now. That was a culmination of 10 years. They are spoiled.

It would be silly to go in to non big team up Avenger movies expecting that kind of scene. We all expected that scene of the heroes returning though.

Not expecting such a team up scene until they establish the X-Men and F4. If Spider-Man is still around all of them in some kind of scene would be nice. If Hulk was as dangerous as A1 or fun as Ragnarok it would be great to have him fight Wolverine but it is not happening. Thor is solo now and would feel forced if he interacted with any of the upcoming heroes. Not sure how long Ant-Man will go I do enjoy Rudd reacting to meeting heroes but Rudd is 53 he is not doing this another 5-10 years.

 

[legendkillin]

So was there only one book of Vishanti? Wouldn't seem right to only have 1 but every reality/universe had a Dark Hold. The book was destroyed easily if only one existed, I get Dark Hold since it was a copy.

 

[Detective Conan]

Sorry to ask this again, but can anyone confirm on whether the Darkhold was enhancing Wanda's powers in this film? That was like the one thing I was unclear about.

No. The darkhold provided her knowledge of dark magic that we see her use in this film, but in terms of the sheer power that we see in this film that was entirely due to the Scarlet Witch form she awakened in WandaVision. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the darkhold.

 

[Deck Rickard]

They need to do a sequel to the Agatha song called “Actually It Was Wanda All Along.”

 

[Batmannerism]

This is the worst Marvel movie I have ever seen.

Well, fair play. Honestly I would say that Eternals, Black Widow, Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3 and Shang Chi were as bad, as in being contrived and having plenty of stuff that didn't make sense.

The Ant Man movies were just as forgettable.

However, this movie pissed me off more than most of the other ones for 2 reasons

1)because it tries to manipulate the audience with the Illuminati cameos. They are only in this film because bringing back other established characters worked so well in No Way Home. They have zero impact on the story, whereas in NWH the cameos are a direct result of Spider-Man 's actions, and all of them have an arc ( well maybe not Lizard and Sandman).

And even in the scene where Wanda kills them all, Captain Carter and Captain Marvel literally stand there watching while Wanda shreds Mr Fantastic.

And

2) There's lots of running around and busy-work. E.g. What was the point of the book of the Vishanti ? ( which didn't actually have any impact on the outcome ).

Ugh. Terrible writing.

Frustrating - but I'm not sure if I agree it's the worst MCU film.

 

[Batmannerism]

It was a terrible way to introduce the character. Awful. Simply awful.

Totally agree .

 

[Batmannerism]

Can someone explain the Scarlet Witch to me? I’m still confused about what she/it actually is. Like, is the SW a force of magic and Wanda is essentially its avatar/host, or is she the one and only SW and the prophesies and the temple were all built in preparation for her? They’ve been a bit vague on this or maybe I missed something.

Easily explained, she has the power to do whatever the script needs her to do. Wanda's powers are pure plot devices. They're badly defined and seem to have no limits, even when they should seem to.

 

[Johnny Richards]

Well, fair play. Honestly I would say that Eternals, Black Widow, Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3 and Shang Chi were as bad, as in being contrived and having plenty of stuff that didn't make sense.

The Ant Man movies were just as forgettable.

However, this movie pissed me off more than most of the other ones for 2 reasons

1)because it tries to manipulate the audience with the Illuminati cameos. They are only in this film because bringing back other established characters worked so well in No Way Home. They have zero impact on the story, whereas in NWH the cameos are a direct result of Spider-Man 's actions, and all of them have an arc ( well maybe not Lizard and Sandman).

And even in the scene where Wanda kills them all, Captain Carter and Captain Marvel literally stand there watching while Wanda shreds Mr Fantastic.

And

2) There's lots of running around and busy-work. E.g. What was the point of the book of the Vishanti ? ( which didn't actually have any impact on the outcome ).

Ugh. Terrible writing.

Frustrating - but I'm not sure if I agree it's the worst MCU film.

The Illuminati sequence is designed to show Wanda is now a MAJOR threat to the Multiverse and an extremely formidable supervillain. She was single-handedly able to dispatch the 838 Avengers who had already beat Thanos. Imagine if she went up against the 616 Avengers in the coming future. Would they fare better against her?

Without the Illuminati sequence the full measure of Scarlet Witch's power remained unproven. Now we know she's VERY powerful.

 

[BarryLyndon]

First MCU movie that really has a unique visual style.

Not perfect but a hell of a ride, kind of reminded me of ''Big trouble in little china'' which is awesome. A bit of classic Marvel cheesiness here and there but overall it felt great to see Raimi's style in the MCU.

There was so much theories floating around and expectation from fans that somehow people forget to experience a movie as it's own thing. This film is weird, macabre and violent in a way I was happily surprised. The illuminati moment was clearly a MARVEL input but those deaths were pretty brutal which I found hilarious!

All the easter eggs from Raimi's filmography were perfect IMO.

Only complaint I have is it's not 100% his movie. I'm sure that if he had full control
and not 22 others movies to deal with he would have made something quite remarkable.

His style is not for everyone though and the fast paced rythm of the film may feel rushed, but I think all in all it was really well directed, the action scenes were top notch. I mean, I'm a Raimi fan and think his old school technical signature is what's missing in Marvel's movie.

I certainly hope to see him return in the MCU.

 

[P Supreme]

Just for making the scarlet witch a legit scary villain it can't the worst mcu movie. That goes to eternals and by alot. Thor 2 I csn still enjoy thor and loki. IM 3 is good until the mandarin reveal.

Did I miss it or do they explain the ultron bots at all ?

I didn't mention it in my initial post in this thread but ffs where was vision?

 

[BarryLyndon]

The Illuminati sequence is designed to show Wanda is now a MAJOR threat to the Multiverse and an extremely formidable supervillain. She was single-handedly able to dispatch the 838 Avengers who had already beat Thanos. Imagine if she went up against the 616 Avengers in the coming future. Would they fare better against her?

Without the Illuminati sequence the full measure of Scarlet Witch's power remained unproven. Now we know she's VERY powerful.

Plus showing her as powerful as this makes her a great ally to defeat those next threats like Kang.

 

[samsnee]

Doc Strange when he was a zombie.

I can’t wait for you to be able to make gifs from this movie. Christine saying go back to hell will make a good one

 

[BarryLyndon]

Doc Strange when he was a zombie.

Man it's good that Feige let Raimi have his signature all over this film.

You could argue that Taika Watiti and James Gunn are other unique MCU director but their visual style is mostly generic. It's more about their writing style and sense of humor.

Raimi breaks ground in a technical way which is really refreshing, he always try an editing that is authentic, questionable sometimes, but at least unique!

 

[Mysteryman]

I only searched for the terms „Chton“ and „Wundagore“…which were included.
I‘m happy with that and will leave the thread now until next werk.

Also the post credit scene with Deadpool turned out to be fake

Glad to hear that.
I always thought dropping Deadpool into this movie was a bad idea

 

[Kane52630]

I can’t wait for you to be able to make gifs from this movie. Christine saying go back to hell will make a good one

I personally can't wait to do this part:

 

[legendkillin]

Just for making the scarlet witch a legit scary villain it can't the worst mcu movie. That goes to eternals and by alot. Thor 2 I csn still enjoy thor and loki. IM 3 is good until the mandarin reveal.

Did I miss it or do they explain the ultron bots at all ?

I didn't mention it in my initial post in this thread but ffs where was vision?

No Ultron bot explanation, Strange was not even around for that so he wouldn't have made a joke.
838 Wanda may have had a much different life and was being dreamwalked by hellbent 616 Wanda who had no time to care about the bots. They were just their like Ninja Turtle Foot Soldiers easy to dispose, if the Illuminati had actual SHIELD like soldiers the body count(blood) would have been far too much.

I mentioned in my 2nd viewing post that Vision was a much more important figure to 616 Wanda not the kids. Westview was due to losing Vision and trying to get him back all the way up to the end of the show. They should have tried to get Vision in the movie unless Bettany refused.

 

[legendkillin]

The Illuminati sequence is designed to show Wanda is now a MAJOR threat to the Multiverse and an extremely formidable supervillain. She was single-handedly able to dispatch the 838 Avengers who had already beat Thanos. Imagine if she went up against the 616 Avengers in the coming future. Would they fare better against her?

Without the Illuminati sequence the full measure of Scarlet Witch's power remained unproven. Now we know she's VERY powerful.

I really wish they mentioned other heroes being around the battle of Thanos. It makes it seem like that like weak group of 6(with Strange) was able to defeat a full infinity gauntlet Thanos.
I looked at the gauntlet and it was not toast so Thanos did not snap the fingers, so no way did they beat him. Time stone Strange couldn't beat him wouldn't that be stronger than Dark Hold Strange? Thanos had Reality stone he could have killed Black Bolt the same way but he must not have wanted to kill similar to the Stark fight. Xavier is not doing any physical thing to Thanos unless he did what Mantis tried to pull off he would be little help. Captain Carter is no Steve Rodgers but looked undamaged standing there. Rambeau would have held own similar to Danvers.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I really wish they mentioned other heroes being around the battle of Thanos. It makes it seem like that like weak group of 6(with Strange) was able to defeat a full infinity gauntlet Thanos.
I looked at the gauntlet and it was not toast so Thanos did not snap the fingers, so no way did they beat him. Time stone Strange couldn't beat him wouldn't that be stronger than Dark Hold Strange? Thanos had Reality stone he could have killed Black Bolt the same way but he must not have wanted to kill similar to the Stark fight. Xavier is not doing any physical thing to Thanos unless he did what Mantis tried to pull off he would be little help. Captain Carter is no Steve Rodgers but looked undamaged standing there. Rambeau would have held own similar to Danvers.

I don't know if I'd say the Darkhold is necessarily weaker than an individual infinity stone. Or at least their powers are completely incomparable since one is witchcraft and the other is cosmic energy

 

[Herolee10]

For those that familiar with Wanda's comic book counterpart, is she normally supposed to be this strong?

If she's really that strong, I'm curious on how anyone can pose a threat to her. Kang the Conqueror and Dr. Doom feel like downgrades in comparison.

 

[Johnny Richards]

For those that familiar with Wanda's comic book counterpart, is she normally supposed to be this strong?

If she's really that strong, I'm curious on how anyone can pose a threat to her. Kang the Conqueror and Dr. Doom feel like downgrades in comparison.

Yes. She's VERY powerful in the books. Doom and Kang aren't necessarily stronger. Different powersets. They are however smarter than SW.

 

[javonstokess]

i wish they showed us this conflict better - it would make her a bit more sympathetic - instead i just hate her now.

How much more did you need showed? They repeatedly said in the show how the Darkhold influences people. The whole Illuminati segment was them showing how the Darkhold affected their version of Dr. Strange.

They even showed how the Darkhold affected Agatha in Wanda/Vision. I mean, how much more does this need to be spelled out for folk...?

 

[javonstokess]

I see a lot of people disappointed in the Illuminati cameos and, with all due respect, I think you're missing the point about them. They served their purposes which were:
1. To show how powerful Wanda was
2. Basically neon signs saying "You'll see most of these characters (Charles, Reed, Black Bolt) in the 616 universe soon".
3. Beginning the hinting for the road to "Secret Wars" with the introduction of the "Incursions".

Gotta remember these were the main universe's versions.