Is Anyone Else Getting a Little Tired of The Berlanti DC Shows?

[KRYPTON INC.]

The season 2 premiere of Supergirl was pure comic book gold. Definitely the best Berlanti show on TV, if not the best comic book show on TV period.
Any problems anyone had with season one are wiped away. They basically got rid of the worst and kept the best. If you skipped or dropped season 1,
season 2 is now a good time to jump back in.

I couldn't finish the episode since I had to go to work today... But what I saw was far from some vast improvement though what I saw of Tyler showed promise... But the writing, dialog and handling of characters including Kara is still so forced and casting issues like Calista as Cat are apparent as ever. Now, am I gonna lie and say I didn't thoroughly enjoy seeing Superman AND Supergirl together for the first time in live action doing heroics side by side? Yeah, that's a dream come true. But then the forced "adorkable" nonsense and bad dialog comes into play and all the other elements which makes the show so lackluster to me that made me drop it last season.

Flash however... Dear Zod... Flash's season three premiere was along with it's second episode a microcosm of all that show's weaknesses as I perceive it. For me it's again going through the same mediocre motions that it did last season. Even the same issues are at play and just like last season's premiere are resolved with the same swiftness to the point of making me as a viewer say, "why even do this in the first place?" The show feels like consuming food with empty calories. Which is a shame since Gustin is so likable in the role of Barry.

 

[Batmannerism]

I couldn't finish the episode since I had to go to work today... But what I saw was far from some vast improvement though what I saw of Tyler showed promise... But the writing, dialog and handling of characters including Kara is still so forced and casting issues like Calista as Cat are apparent as ever. Now, am I gonna lie and say I didn't thoroughly enjoy seeing Superman AND Supergirl together for the first time in live action doing heroics side by side? Yeah, that's a dream come true. But then the forced "adorkable" nonsense and bad dialog comes into play and all the other elements which makes the show so lackluster to me that made me drop it last season.

Flash however... Dear Zod... Flash's season three premiere was along with it's second episode a microcosm of all that show's weaknesses as I perceive it. For me it's again going through the same mediocre motions that it did last season. Even the same issues are at play and just like last season's premiere are resolved with the same swiftness to the point of making me as a viewer say, "why even do this in the first place?" The show feels like consuming food with empty calories. Which is a shame since Gustin is so likable in the role of Barry.

Yeah, Supergirl is goofy and pretty cheesy but I thought that TH was terrific as Superman. It would be neat to see if he could carry a show himself. Not only did TH play the role well, but the characterisation of Superman - as a strong and essentially decent person, who doesn't take himself that seriously, despite his responsibilities. He also didn't take any **** from Jonn and the DEO, which was nice.

I mean, the bit where he saves the family from the drone, then winks at them before flying off - well to me that's classic Superman, combining the best of Reeve with a 21st century feel.
It's not that I don't like DCCU's Superman, I loved Man of Steel - I mean, Superman can be serious and still be awesome. But Superman has to have some lightness to his character to balance the dark.

As for Flash, well I liked the premier, but really think it should have been a special 2 hour episode -or a two-parter. That storyline deserved better service.

All in all I would say, IMHO, that Supergirl had the strongest episode 1 out of SG, Flash and Arrow (which seems weird). Will see ep 1 of Legends of tomorrow, later today, so can rate that against the others.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I had fun listening to KRYPTON in his podcast describing the same tropes used in all shows (great podcast, you should listen to it):

"My name is Paul protagonist, I had a tragic story which one.. or both of my parents died. Later, I gained super powers, but -for some reason- still require supporting cast from 5.. to 7 different characters to help me fight injustice and battle super powered criminals. This seems it's because I can't make decisions on my own while on the field and must receive instructions through my 2 way video earpiece, despite being the main character who -you would assume- has at least a working level of common sense and control over his powers.
My origin as a costumed crime fighter is tied, in some way, with a villain of some kind, whose defeat should give me closure, but it probably won't.
I am a protector of a generic city, a costumed crimefighter.
I am the greatest at something.
I AM; SUPERHERO"

 

[famicommander]

Nope, I think all five Arrowverse shows (Flash, Supergirl, Legends, Arrow, Vixen) have started their seasons really well.

Flash is on a different level from the other four, though. Until iZombie returns from hiatus, I think Flash is by far the best superhero show on television.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I only follow one show and that is The Flash, and I honestly find the repetitiveness of the formula to be stupid and dragging at times.
The good thing is they don't need the S.T.A.R. Labs crew to formulate plans for him now.

 

[kguillou]

I had fun listening to KRYPTON in his podcast describing the same tropes used in all shows (great podcast, you should listen to it):

"My name is Paul protagonist, I had a tragic story which one.. or both of my parents died. Later, I gained super powers, but -for some reason- still require supporting cast from 5.. to 7 different characters to help me fight injustice and battle super powered criminals. This seems it's because I can't make decisions on my own while on the field and must receive instructions through my 2 way video earpiece, despite being the main character who -you would assume- has at least a working level of common sense and control over his powers.
My origin as a costumed crime fighter is tied, in some way, with a villain of some kind, whose defeat should give me closure, but it probably won't.
I am a protector of a generic city, a costumed crimefighter.
I am the greatest at something.
I AM; SUPERHERO"

SOOO TRUE. Hahahaha. Seriously, though. It would be nice to have a show where the hero works on his own and doesn't have his supporting cast helping him or her fight crime.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I would love to have another DC film on another adult network like with Gotham.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I had fun listening to KRYPTON in his podcast describing the same tropes used in all shows (great podcast, you should listen to it):

"My name is Paul protagonist, I had a tragic story which one.. or both of my parents died. Later, I gained super powers, but -for some reason- still require supporting cast from 5.. to 7 different characters to help me fight injustice and battle super powered criminals. This seems it's because I can't make decisions on my own while on the field and must receive instructions through my 2 way video earpiece, despite being the main character who -you would assume- has at least a working level of common sense and control over his powers.
My origin as a costumed crime fighter is tied, in some way, with a villain of some kind, whose defeat should give me closure, but it probably won't.
I am a protector of a generic city, a costumed crimefighter.
I am the greatest at something.
I AM; SUPERHERO"

Thanks for the kind words Aziz.

 

[godisawesome]

My biggest complaint about the Arrowverse is how badly they mangled most of their intiatial attempts at making complicated romance arcs to appeal to their more drama-inclined demographic. Considering how they always seemed to either cast actors in their main romance roles who lacked chemistry together or neutered major characters to make the, fit an archetype foreign to the property before hand, it feels like that always shows up as a weakness in their shows.

Laurel, I still believe, was built by the producers around the idea of being the conflicted female audience surrogate torn between two great loves. The problem was that while the plot line worked with Tommy, the character didn't even have the proper roots of her evolution into Black Canary until roughly three seasons in, and their attempts to play the Ollie/Laurel relationship serious failed whenever both actors shared a screen. All the things that wound up working for the character were only introduced after it was clear that fans didn't care about any of their attempts to pair up the classic couple.

Jimmy the Alpha Male just never really worked in Supergirl. Everyone around him was pretty good, and Brooks showed his skills when he could, but they basically handicapped his portrayal by trying to make him fit a rigid archetype that didn't suit the character and wasn't quite right for Brooks. And now we've clearly moved past that because they know it's broken.

Hawkman and Hawkgirl were starving for any kind of chemistry, and Hawkgirl and Palmer, while stronger, were still oddly placed in the show's formula.

Iris West was a better execution for the idea, and they again found a good way to use the romantic false lead, though at this point, I think most of us would agree they'd work great if they just made them a solid couple and gave them both character arcs that intersected.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The Berlanti shows have always been kinda annoying with terribly unconvincing, awkward character drama, and useless annoying side characters (something the Marvel Netflix shows are also guilty of imo), but they've thrown enough DC universe stuff at me to keep me coming back.

I think I might just drop Flash now though. The stuff that used to wow me doesn't really anymore, so the bad stuff is finally taking its toll on me.

I feel the same way about Supergirl except for the inclusion of Clark. Will probably drop after those Superman episodes.

Arrow, which I also found to be the worst of the bunch, is actually doing more for me right now with the new Mayor Queen status quo and a return to raw street level crime, though 'badass gruff Green Arrow', Felicity, and Thea are still annoying as hell.

Legends season 1 was probably the most entertaining of all the shows, though it also had some crappy characters like Rip and Kendra. I wish season 2 looked a bit different. I would have switched out more of the cast. Booster Gold shoulda replaced Rip imo.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Thanks for the kind words Aziz.

You earned the compliments.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Ha. It's like Superman is noticing the kanji in the corner of that gif.

 

[kguillou]

The Berlanti shows have always been kinda annoying with terribly unconvincing, awkward character drama, and useless annoying side characters (something the Marvel Netflix shows are also guilty of imo), but they've thrown enough DC universe stuff at me to keep me coming back.

I think I might just drop Flash now though. The stuff that used to wow me doesn't really anymore, so the bad stuff is finally taking its toll on me.

I feel the same way about Supergirl except for the inclusion of Clark. Will probably drop after those Superman episodes.

Arrow, which I also found to be the worst of the bunch, is actually doing more for me right now with the new Mayor Queen status quo and a return to raw street level crime, though 'badass gruff Green Arrow', Felicity, and Thea are still annoying as hell.

Legends season 1 was probably the most entertaining of all the shows, though it also had some crappy characters like Rip and Kendra. I wish season 2 looked a bit different. I would have switched out more of the cast. Booster Gold shoulda replaced Rip imo.

I know, right? What is it about Flash that it just lost its luster season two onward? Season one was so fantastic all the way through and season two....I can't quite put it into words but it wasn't nearly as compelling to watch. Its not that the show is BAD by any means but I don't feel hooked like with season one. Do you think maybe the writers blew their wad with all their ideas n the first season?

 

[BestGirl]

I know, right? What is it about Flash that it just lost its luster season two onward? Season one was so fantastic all the way through and season two....I can't quite put it into words but it wasn't nearly as compelling to watch. Its not that the show is BAD by any means but I don't feel hooked like with season one. Do you think maybe the writers blew their wad with all their ideas n the first season?

I think the show may have gotten a new set of writers for season 2. At times it was as though the writers for the first half of season 2 didn't communicate with the writers for the second half. Remember how Joe was supposed to be putting together a metahuman task force and then that plotline just fizzled out? Season 1 was much more cohesive.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I think it's due to diminishing returns and repetitiveness.

Season 3 is starting with another speedster villain, another 'dream world', and the same old drama about parents, Iris, etc. Despite Flashpoint possibly being the most 'different' thing that could happen to a Flash show, it felt extremely familiar and formulaic.

I think the show needs something to happen plot-wise that allows for different situations, different supporting characters, different kinds of conversations, different narrative territory. Maybe make Flash a celebrity or something.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Another speedster villain? smh.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah thats a big issue, too. I think the writers feel like speedsters are the only one who could really challenge Flash so they keep bringing them in each season. Sooner or later they're gonna have to switch it up or its going to get really monotonous and boring.

I just watched the latest Supergirl, and while it was fun, I think that show is perhaps a little too "Silver-agey" for me. Each episode Supergirl fights a new cackling villain who's bad for bad's sake. I feel like that could be fun to watch every now and then but on a continuous basis? I don't think its for me, personally. I'd prefer a show where we build the villains as characters over time and get to see WHY they become evil.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Another speedster villain? smh.

Spoiler

FATALITY​

If only I could add the dripping blood effect.

 

[BestGirl]

I think it's due to diminishing returns and repetitiveness.

Season 3 is starting with another speedster villain, another 'dream world', and the same old drama about parents, Iris, etc. Despite Flashpoint possibly being the most 'different' thing that could happen to a Flash show, it felt extremely familiar and formulaic.

I think the show needs something to happen plot-wise that allows for different situations, different supporting characters, different kinds of conversations, different narrative territory. Maybe make Flash a celebrity or something.

It blows my mind they ended the Flashpoint world so quickly. They easily could've spun a few more episodes out of the changed status quo.

 

[Bayne]

I'm glad flashpoint ended so quickly. It was a terrible story to start with, built on a terrible ending to last season. The extreme quality improvement this week compared to the first two episodes is proof enough for me that they needed to get over and done with (though I would've preferred they hadn't done it in the first place) so they could move on to actually good stories.

 

[DrCosmic]

So, I'm caught up on Flash and Supergirl right now, haven't gotten into Arrow again. Flashpoint is, as I suspected, not Flashpoint because we already had the point of Flashpoint in the Earth 2 storyline. Here it's 'It's a Wonderful Life', and it's lampshaded as such, which, you'll recall was pretty much the opposite of the Atlantis-Amazon war scenario that made Flashpoint, y'know... epic. But that would require a world that's been built up more than Flash has, since it hasn't really done any worldbuilding since the first half of the first season. Which is fine as a storyline, but why call it 'Flashpoint' and expect people to be excited about it Flashpoint style?

I really feel held hostage in a way. They keep cashing in on these iconic DC comics moments, but then... they do so much badly it's like... is this what it takes to see Superman and Supergirl team up? Is this how they are going to handle Flash and Kid Flash? Why are these characters, and these characters alone so difficult to create quality storylines for? Both the Berlantiverse and the DCEU have failed to make these characters compelling in their own right, beyond retread relationship drama and iconic (read: nostalgic) costuming.

The writing for episode 3.02 of Flash really hammered home what's ridiculous about this universe. My wife was like: Why doesn't he just tell them about the alternate timeline? And I really couldn't explain why not, because we all know it's just to stretch out the drama. And even further that for some reason, they were all like 'uh no,' when it came to their alternate lives. So already, one episode after Flashpoint their season long tension hinges on explanation-less abstaining from conversation.

And the whole thing is supposedly about how the cracks in the mug can't be fixed, which is followed almost immediately by him fixing every broken relationship. It turns out the only lasting effects are more people with powers, so again, the bad guys are directly the result of Barry's selfish stupidity.

And don't get me started on doing Jessie Quick in front of Wally, and setting him up to be a pawn of Alchemy because of jealousy. The disdain that the Berlantiverse has for specific characters is palpable. I'm already tired of the Wally hate, and it hasn't even started yet.

What is so hard about doing these characters - and not just their costumes and code names - justice? These characters deserve better than petty squabbles whether on or off camera.

 

[chamber-music]

The poorly written romances and overuse of formulaic motivational pep talks are what tend to drag these shows down at times in my opinion.

There is the occasional bouts of plot induced stupidity as well.

 

[Zant]

I saw the latest episode of Legends of Tomorrow and I don't know. That show is just a superhero parody at this point. The show has obviously had budget cut yet they still try and go big and epic. It all just looks bad. The show should have been a ten part animated series from the start. Its a failed experiment IMO.

 

[brandeezy89]

The main problem with the Arrowverse nowadays as Collider Heroes pointed out, is that everyone becomes a Superhero or knows the heroes real identity. Ollie's sister, two ex-girlfriends, his sister's ex-boyfriend, his ex's employee and his bodyguard have all become superheroes which is ridiculous. In The Flash everyone is a speedster or Meta. Jay, Jesse, The Rival, Zoom, Reverse Flash, Wally (Eventually), Caitlyn and Cisco. I wouldn't be surprised if Iris gets powers tbh, but now we have Jimmy Olsen who's just like Diggle.

 

[DrCosmic]

The main problem with the Arrowverse nowadays as Collider Heroes pointed out, is that everyone becomes a Superhero or knows the heroes real identity. Ollie's sister, two ex-girlfriends, his sister's ex-boyfriend, his ex's employee and his bodyguard have all become superheroes which is ridiculous. In The Flash everyone is a speedster or Meta. Jay, Jesse, The Rival, Zoom, Reverse Flash, Wally (Eventually), Caitlyn and Cisco. I wouldn't be surprised if Iris gets powers tbh, but now we have Jimmy Olsen who's just like Diggle.

Honestly? The secret identity dance from the silver age comics gets old fast. It'd be interesting if they'd come up with a new/cool way to handle it, but I remember being very tired of Flash *not* telling Iris, and the reasons they came up with kept getting dumber and dumber.

But I hear you on the everyone's a superhero... which ALSO could work (nothing wrong with a show about a superhero team) if they weren't all so redundant. Also some of the origin stories are ridiculous because there's no way I'm buying Jimmy Olsen, much as I love this version, as Guardian. It was bad enough when Arsenal started taking down Mirakuru Soldiers without so much as a training montage.