BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 1

[Herolee10]

The thing is, MoS was clearly not written to lead into a team up film. The end of MoS, 'Welcome to the Planet Clark' beautifully set up a Man of Steel 2 and nothing more. People are now saying this team up movie has been in the works for a while longer then people initially thought, but its only been around a short time compared to how long ago MoS was filmed, and written, which years and years ago, i.e before Avengers.

So now I hope this film has time to satisfyingly show the Clark we were teased with at the end of MoS, and for him to actually be this symbol of hope that people can get behind. Because if he's going to contrast Batman in any way, he really needs to be that symbol of hope the film talked about so much, but didn't actually leave much room for itself to explore.

Agreed.

Before I go on, I just want to clarify that I'm not one of the fanboys that's complaining and throwing a tantrum over Ben's selection for the role. I'm honestly in a wait and see mode in regards to what he'll eventually bring in the final cut of the film.

My issue is not so much about Ben being chosen for the film, but more about how this will effect Superman and the focus on him in this film in general.

Honestly, one of my fears is that due to Ben's influence, he may try to make Batman appear more dominant and superior to Superman in this film.

It's already bad enough that the buzz of this film is going to be majorly on Batman due to both Batman's popularity and the selection of Affleck for the role.

IF Lex is in this film, I'm afraid that rather than being portrayed as Superman's archenemy like he's supposed to be in the same manner that Joker is for Batman, he'll be portrayed as more of a Batman enemy due to Batman's presence.

I'm honestly worried for Superman fans that we're on the brink of undergoing the same treatment that Cyclops' fans had to go through when Wolverine was in the picture and with Hugh Jackman's fame being greater than James Mardsen.

I don't need to see a live action film portraying Batman and Superman alongside each other like how Bruce Timm or Frank Miller does with their stories.

Batman's presence in this film alone threatens to take away the focus that would have been given to the likes of Superman and Lois in their attempts to bring down Lex.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it when proven so, but until then, I honestly don't see any reason to be looking forward to this as a SUPERMAN fans.

The ONLY people that are likely to get something from this film are Batman's fans...NOT..and I repeat..NOT Superman's fans. That's the biggest difference.

 

[Glassjaw]

Yeah, I think it's totally fine to be super cautious, because we're really deep into uncharted water here with WB, but likewise I'll be happy to be proven wrong by a really great team up film from WB.

The balancing act between Superman and Batman will be one of the hardest things to get right, because upsetting the balance means upsetting fans from the Superman/Batman camps respectively. But I think the film makers will be highly conscious of it and will spend a lot of time making sure neither gets the short end of the stick. The one positive you can go with for Superman is that he still has some great character development left over from MoS, so just as Batman might need a small arc at the beginning to introduce audiences for the first time to a Batman in a connected, super world, we'll hopefully also get a post-MoS arc for Supes.

Writing that last sentence, talking about Superman and Batman in the same movie, I realised this still hasn't completely sunk in, and how mind boggling it is that this is happening. I'm absolutely cheering everyone involved on from the side lines, and I hope once all the websites and initial outrage dies down against Afflek, people start to realise the huge potential his talents have brought to this table. What if he ends up becoming the new Jonathan Nolan to David Goyer's script? Quality wise, we could have another TDK on our hands.

 

[smallville fan]

Agreed.

Before I go on, I just want to clarify that I'm not one of the fanboys that's complaining and throwing a tantrum over Ben's selection for the role. I'm honestly in a wait and see mode in regards to what he'll eventually bring in the final cut of the film.

My issue is not so much about Ben being chosen for the film, but more about how this will effect Superman and the focus on him in this film in general.

Honestly, one of my fears is that due to Ben's influence, he may try to make Batman appear more dominant and superior to Superman in this film.

It's already bad enough that the buzz of this film is going to be majorly on Batman due to both Batman's popularity and the selection of Affleck for the role.

IF Lex is in this film, I'm afraid that rather than being portrayed as Superman's archenemy like he's supposed to be in the same manner that Joker is for Batman, he'll be portrayed as more of a Batman enemy due to Batman's presence.

I'm honestly worried for Superman fans that we're on the brink of undergoing the same treatment that Cyclops' fans had to go through when Wolverine was in the picture and with Hugh Jackman's fame being greater than James Mardsen.

I don't need to see a live action film portraying Batman and Superman alongside each other like how Bruce Timm or Frank Miller does with their stories.

Batman's presence in this film alone threatens to take away the focus that would have been given to the likes of Superman and Lois in their attempts to bring down Lex.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it when proven so, but until then, I honestly don't see any reason to be looking forward to this as a SUPERMAN fans.

The ONLY people that are likely to get something from this film are Batman's fans...NOT..and I repeat..NOT Superman's fans. That's the biggest difference.

There's still a good amount of BatFans who feel that they're going to lose with this film too you know. This is because either a)Many are Bale purists or b)Remember Daredevil or c)Are Affleck haters in general d)Wish that they could go back to those "old days" where Batman's the king of his own little world.

In my point of view a) would be the strongest factor working against Affleck. Going by Amazing Spider-Man as a model, at this point in time and also 2 years from now, there's still going to be a strong Bale preference among GA and some fans, that might hurt the film a bit as people might still look at Nolan's Batman through rose-tinted glasses just like how for some folk Raimi's Spider-Man was in the same position when Amazing Spider-Man was released.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah, I think it's totally fine to be super cautious, because we're really deep into uncharted water here with WB, but likewise I'll be happy to be proven wrong by a really great team up film from WB.

The balancing act between Superman and Batman will be one of the hardest things to get right, because upsetting the balance means upsetting fans from the Superman/Batman camps respectively. But I think the film makers will be highly conscious of it and will spend a lot of time making sure neither gets the short end of the stick. The one positive you can go with for Superman is that he still has some great character development left over from MoS, so just as Batman might need a small arc at the beginning to introduce audiences for the first time to a Batman in a connected, super world, we'll hopefully also get a post-MoS arc for Supes.

Writing that last sentence, talking about Superman and Batman in the same movie, I realised this still hasn't completely sunk in, and how mind boggling it is that this is happening. I'm absolutely cheering everyone involved on from the side lines, and I hope once all the websites and initial outrage dies down against Afflek, people start to realise the huge potential his talents have brought to this table. What if he ends up becoming the new Jonathan Nolan to David Goyer's script? Quality wise, we could have another TDK on our hands.

What I want, at this point, is that BOTH Superman and Batman learn something very valuable from each other and that it's not just Superman who gets schooled by Batman, let alone portrayed as the lesser hero.

Honestly, when it comes to the lead in for this film, I feel the animosity between fans of Superman and Batman will potentially be similar to the development between the characters themselves on film, and with both groups providing good arguments as to why their character should get and do this, etc. Ultimately I hope that both groups can get their filling at the end of this film.

Though, is it wrong that I continue to hope that this film is still viewed as MOS 2 featuring Batman as opposed to a WF film?

There's still a good amount of BatFans who feel that they're going to lose with this film too you know. This is because either a)Many are Bale purists or b)Remember Daredevil or c)Are Affleck haters

Honestly, I feel like the only real concern that Batman fans have is Affleck's performance since I doubt that they'll get his characterization and usage in the film wrong.

 

[smallville fan]

Honestly, I feel like the only real concern that Batman fans have is Affleck's performance since I doubt that they'll get his characterization and usage in the film wrong.

Yeah, but knowing those fanboys/girls and GA purists they'll complain anyway and rant how much they'll miss Bale and how Batman was characterized as the king of his own little world in the Nolan trilogy. Funny how the style Nolan wanted to pursue worked for and against him.

 

[regwec]

Superman fans- amongst whom I number myself, though Batman is my "number one guy"- need to have a little more confidence in their hero.

It is inevitable that there will be a bit more interest, for a while, in the "new" Batman, since we have already seen the "new" Superman. The same would/will be true of Lex Luthor, and any other elements that are being reintroduced in a new form. But Superman has held an appeal for audiences for decades, he has a rich heritage filled with iconic moments and characters, and I am certain that will come out in the marketing as well as the public's reception to it. In a sense, the importance of Superman is being underlined by having him appear opposite Batman, who is probably seen as more culturally relevant and popular. Nobody is letting go of Superman.

Would would be a snub to the character is if, instead of Supes v Bats, we were getting a "Brave and the Bold" movie with Batman and Green Lantern. That would be implying that Superman was not the other major force in the DCU.

 

[Herolee10]

Superman fans- amongst whom I number myself, though Batman is my "number one guy"- need to have a little more confidence in their hero.

It is inevitable that there will be a bit more interest, for a while, in the "new" Batman, since we have already seen the "new" Superman. The same would/will be true of Lex Luthor, and any other elements that are being reintroduced in a new form. But Superman has held an appeal for audiences for decades, he has a rich heritage filled with iconic moments and characters, and I am certain that will come out in the marketing as well as the public's reception to it. In a sense, the importance of Superman is being underlined by having him appear opposite Batman, who is probably seen as more culturally relevant and popular. Nobody is letting go of Superman.

Would would be a snub to the character is if, instead of Supes v Bats, we were getting a "Brave and the Bold" movie with Batman and Green Lantern. That would be implying that Superman was not the other major force in the DCU.

I can agree with that but the problem is that Superman has a bad history of being presented in a right way when sharing the same screen with batman, so that kind of makes things even more unnerving to say the least.

 

[true316]

Agreed.

Before I go on, I just want to clarify that I'm not one of the fanboys that's complaining and throwing a tantrum over Ben's selection for the role. I'm honestly in a wait and see mode in regards to what he'll eventually bring in the final cut of the film.

My issue is not so much about Ben being chosen for the film, but more about how this will effect Superman and the focus on him in this film in general.

Honestly, one of my fears is that due to Ben's influence, he may try to make Batman appear more dominant and superior to Superman in this film.

It's already bad enough that the buzz of this film is going to be majorly on Batman due to both Batman's popularity and the selection of Affleck for the role.

IF Lex is in this film, I'm afraid that rather than being portrayed as Superman's archenemy like he's supposed to be in the same manner that Joker is for Batman, he'll be portrayed as more of a Batman enemy due to Batman's presence.

I'm honestly worried for Superman fans that we're on the brink of undergoing the same treatment that Cyclops' fans had to go through when Wolverine was in the picture and with Hugh Jackman's fame being greater than James Mardsen.

I don't need to see a live action film portraying Batman and Superman alongside each other like how Bruce Timm or Frank Miller does with their stories.

Batman's presence in this film alone threatens to take away the focus that would have been given to the likes of Superman and Lois in their attempts to bring down Lex.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it when proven so, but until then, I honestly don't see any reason to be looking forward to this as a SUPERMAN fans.

The ONLY people that are likely to get something from this film are Batman's fans...NOT..and I repeat..NOT Superman's fans. That's the biggest difference.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Superman fans- amongst whom I number myself, though Batman is my "number one guy"- need to have a little more confidence in their hero.

It is inevitable that there will be a bit more interest, for a while, in the "new" Batman, since we have already seen the "new" Superman. The same would/will be true of Lex Luthor, and any other elements that are being reintroduced in a new form. But Superman has held an appeal for audiences for decades, he has a rich heritage filled with iconic moments and characters, and I am certain that will come out in the marketing as well as the public's reception to it. In a sense, the importance of Superman is being underlined by having him appear opposite Batman, who is probably seen as more culturally relevant and popular. Nobody is letting go of Superman.

Would would be a snub to the character is if, instead of Supes v Bats, we were getting a "Brave and the Bold" movie with Batman and Green Lantern. That would be implying that Superman was not the other major force in the DCU.

It isn't a lack of confidence in Superman. It is a lack of confidence in the filmmakers and the studio handling Superman. I know the movie is going to make tons of money at the box office. The gimmick of putting these two icons together will guarantee that. But having a good story where neither hero gets short-changed? I'm extremely skeptical.

 

[jonathancrane]

While I have no thoughts on Affleck's casting, my enthusiasm for the film has pretty much evaporated. The rushed nature of it and Snyder's lack of enthusiasm - per the quote that implied he was forced to make the film-has evacuated all of my excitement. At this point, the only thing I am excited about is seeing Amy Adams on the big screen, again.

 

[Herolee10]

At this point, the only thing I am excited about is seeing Amy Adams on the big screen, again.

Let's hope they don't screw up Amy's Lois in this film. It's bad enough that she probably won't be focused as much due to batman being in this film.

 

[jmc]

This seems to fly in the face of so many declaring "Superman/Batman" was a last minute decision by WB:



http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-ben-affleck-said-yes-613658

I honestly declare bull **** on this. I don't buy for a second that this team up film was anything other than Plan B.

 

[jmc]

Agreed.

Before I go on, I just want to clarify that I'm not one of the fanboys that's complaining and throwing a tantrum over Ben's selection for the role. I'm honestly in a wait and see mode in regards to what he'll eventually bring in the final cut of the film.

My issue is not so much about Ben being chosen for the film, but more about how this will effect Superman and the focus on him in this film in general.

Honestly, one of my fears is that due to Ben's influence, he may try to make Batman appear more dominant and superior to Superman in this film.

It's already bad enough that the buzz of this film is going to be majorly on Batman due to both Batman's popularity and the selection of Affleck for the role.

IF Lex is in this film, I'm afraid that rather than being portrayed as Superman's archenemy like he's supposed to be in the same manner that Joker is for Batman, he'll be portrayed as more of a Batman enemy due to Batman's presence.

I'm honestly worried for Superman fans that we're on the brink of undergoing the same treatment that Cyclops' fans had to go through when Wolverine was in the picture and with Hugh Jackman's fame being greater than James Mardsen.

I don't need to see a live action film portraying Batman and Superman alongside each other like how Bruce Timm or Frank Miller does with their stories.

Batman's presence in this film alone threatens to take away the focus that would have been given to the likes of Superman and Lois in their attempts to bring down Lex.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it when proven so, but until then, I honestly don't see any reason to be looking forward to this as a SUPERMAN fans.

The ONLY people that are likely to get something from this film are Batman's fans...NOT..and I repeat..NOT Superman's fans. That's the biggest difference.

I get the feeling the film will be much more like the movie Heat with it's co-leads sharing equal screen time, both having their own story played out throughout the course of the film, hell, maybe they only interact a handful of times.

 

[Herolee10]

I get the feeling the film will be much more like the movie Heat with it's co-leads sharing equal screen time, both having their own story played out throughout the course of the film, hell, maybe they only interact a handful of times.

The question is then...who's going to be Robert and who's going to be freaking Pacino?lol

 

[MANOFSTEELtrilogy]

I'm just grateful that Affleck isn't directing/writing this film.

I just saw "The Town" and was horrified by the corny ending. Almost as pathetic as Nolan's very soft ending in The Dark Knight Rises. Even the great true story (or mostly true - actually Affleck probably manipulated the story in order to give it the happy-go-lucky feel) of Argo was flawed by Affleck's happy-go-lucky approach.

 

[Tobias]

I get the feeling the film will be much more like the movie Heat with it's co-leads sharing equal screen time, both having their own story played out throughout the course of the film, hell, maybe they only interact a handful of times.

I doubt this.

Batman may have a small side story separate in order for WB to use this to launch the new Batman franchise but the two will interact. Batman being older and wiser and experienced as mentioned by Snyder almost certainly means he comes in as a mentor/teacher to Superman in some fashion.

 

[MANOFSTEELtrilogy]

I doubt this.

Batman may have a small side story separate in order for WB to use this to launch the new Batman franchise but the two will interact. Batman being older and wiser and experienced as mentioned by Snyder almost certainly means he comes in as a mentor/teacher to Superman in some fashion.

Seems so weird to think Batman could mentor Superman. Why would Superman trust Batman's ideas over Jor-El's teachings?

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Did Snyder seem excited at comic con? If he really isn't happy about his next movie that does cause me concern. A few things cause me concern about MOS 2 but most of it has to do with Snyder and Goyer, but on top of their hits and misses in MOS now we have rumors that Snyder is being strong armed. There are many CBMs that have been ruined because the director didn't put forth his best effort.

 

[MANOFSTEELtrilogy]

Did Snyder seem excited at comic con? If he really isn't happy about his next movie that does cause me concern. A few things cause me concern about MOS 2 but most of it has to do with Snyder and Goyer, but on top of their hits and misses in MOS now we have rumors that Snyder is being strong armed. There are many CBMs that have been ruined because the director didn't put forth his best effort.

Are you basing this entirely on Snyder's level of excitement at comic con?

 

[regwec]

Seems so weird to think Batman could mentor Superman. Why would Superman trust Batman's ideas over Jor-El's teachings?

Who says they're necessarily contradictory?

Clark is learning all of the time. He learns from everyone he meets in MoS, whether they are a good influence or bad. How he learns from Batman may well be similar to how he learned from Batman in John Byrne's imagining of their first meeting:



The value of different experiences and different perspectives.

Inevitably, Bruce will also learn from Clarke- otherwise the movie fails. One suspects that the older, grizzled Batman will learn not to be such a pessimistic recluse and to trust others, or something along those lines.

 

[Herolee10]

Who says they're necessarily contradictory?

Clark is learning all of the time. He learns from everyone he meets in MoS, whether they are a good influence or bad. How he learns from Batman may well be similar to how he learned from Batman in John Byrne's imagining of their first meeting:



The value of different experiences and different perspectives.

Inevitably, Bruce will also learn from Clarke- otherwise the movie fails. One suspects that the older, grizzled Batman will learn not to be such a pessimistic recluse and to trust others, or something along those lines.

If Lex is in this film as its main antagonist, I wholeheartedly believe that one potential route that they could go is showing on how Bruce/Batman and Lex represent the different responses that Humanity has regarding Superman's presence on Earth, and how Bruce can very well end up falling prey to his own paranoia like Lex has regarding his views on Superman.

 

[jmc]

Me thinks Batman will be the antagonist in this film. There's no way I can see the finale being anything other than Batman and Superman duking it out.

 

[STARMAN]

There's less contrast between Superman and Batman with the MOS version than the Routh/Reeve version.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Me thinks Batman will be the antagonist in this film. There's no way I can see the finale being anything other than Batman and Superman duking it out.

If that's the case, why are they taking so long with the title of the film. You would think it would have been in the press release for Affleck. Call it Batman vs. Superman and get it over with. Or maybe it's just more than Batman and Superman squaring off.

 

[georgec]

Me thinks Batman will be the antagonist in this film. There's no way I can see the finale being anything other than Batman and Superman duking it out.

I think he'll seem like he's undermining Superman until the end when Batman reveals he was actually trying to _____ to stop Lex.

But how can the audience buy the concept of Batman as an antagonist to Superman in a Superman film? That would be incredibly difficult to pull off.

 

[The Shape]

And so begins the period where everything Batman takes center stage of this film's production.

This is exactly what I, along with many others feared regarding Batman's involvement in this film, that the focus would no longer be on Superman but on everything and anything involving Batman, and it doesn't help that they chose Ben, who's selection for the role has gained even more focus on Batman than Superman.

If this is what we can expect for the coming months, and the film itself, then I think it's safe to say that Batman has screwed Superman.

Dude, relax. It's been one day since Batman's casting was announced. We all knew that was going to be a big deal, no matter who they cast. If anything, you should be happy the announcement was made this early on. Now, once the buzz settles down and production begins, I believe we'll see a pretty fair and balanced marketing campaign that features both characters evenly.

To be fair, you shouldn't blame WB for using their biggest asset (Batman) to their advantage.