BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 2

[zryson]

There's a demented part of me the really wants to see B v S be just as divisive as MoS was.

The only way they could be more divisive is if they have another character kill. Like Batman. But its kind of a one trick pony. Its already been done. And if its just as divisive as MOS, then it will affect the box office and do WB really want to risk that?

 

[DA_Champion]

There's a demented part of me the really wants to see B v S be just as divisive as MoS was.

For the sake of forum rage or something else?

 

[Tra-El]

The only way they could be more divisive is if they have another character kill. Like Batman. But its kind of a one trick pony. Its already been done. And if its just as divisive as MOS, then it will affect the box office and do WB really want to risk that?

WB's not playing it safe. They simply don't know what safe is so I'm glad they are going full throttle. You can't go into this big of a cinematic universe with fear of taking risks or else it's bound to fail. It's not in their control what the movie they are destined to make becomes divisive. Now that most of the origin BS is out of the way, lets see if the team can come up with something that can now honor the mythology of these characters and pull something off beyond our wildest dreams. If they were to go the controversy route, which I'm sure they will, it needs to pack a big punch that effects the next installment's to come.

WB/DC drew their line in the sand. They have the tone of their movies set and how they want to tell their superhero stories on screen. You can't accomplish that without taking the risk first, especially being the TOTAL alternative to their competitors. I think the potential is huge to payoff.

 

[zryson]

WB's not playing it safe. They simply don't know what safe is so I'm glad they are going full throttle. You can't go into this big of a cinematic universe with fear of taking risks or else it's bound to fail. It's not in their control what the movie they are destined to make becomes divisive. Now that most of the origin BS is out of the way, lets see if the team can come up with something that can now honor the mythology of these characters and pull something off beyond our wildest dreams. If they were to go the controversy route, which I'm sure they will, it needs to pack a big punch that effects the next installment's to come.

WB/DC drew their line in the sand. They have the tone of their movies set and how they want to tell their superhero stories on screen. You can't accomplish that without taking the risk first, especially being the TOTAL alternative to their competitors. I think the potential is huge to payoff.

Warner Bros have played it safe for years. As for beyond wildest dreams, I doubt they can even achieve it considering what other studios are accomplishing.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Is Geoff Johns involved with the DCCU? If so, that's even more reason for concern. I've been flipping through his Justice League book, in hopes that it might be better than the JL: War animated film that was based on it, but man, it downright sucks. Honestly, a 13 year old kid could've written a better story with better characterization and dialogue.

Someone like Bruce Timm or Paul Dini would've been a nice consultant.

Snyder+Goyer+Johns=Blech

The first year is crap. The second year is better. The book is genuinely good/great now.

 

[regwec]

I strongly disagree with that- I maintain that JL is the worst it has been for some time.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I feel the same about Batman.

 

[Wise]

I think I'll probably enjoy the hype and build up more than the movie itself. Seeing characters in costume and trailers.

I'm not expecting it to be Batman Begins or Avengers good. But if it's as good as X-Men DOFP or Iron Man I'll be happy.

 

[tomoe]

I think I'll probably enjoy the hype and build up more than the movie itself. Seeing characters in costume and trailers.

I'm not expecting it to be Batman Begins or Avengers good. But if it's as good as X-Men DOFP or Iron Man I'll be happy.

I enjoyed dofp and iron Man much more than avengers and batman begins haha but I'll be thrilled if it's as good as any of those 4 movies.

 

[Reiter]

I think its because had they gone with a younger Batman, it would have invited more comparison to the Nolan-Batman universe. And I think they know they would come off looking poorer for the comparison, so they are clearly trying to distance themselves from the Batman seen in that universe.

While i dont think they could have surpassed Nolan's themes and quality of cinematography, they could have surpassed him in the actual batman and his world department. Snyder could have given us BTAS Batman, THE batman we all grew up with. A proper Robin, unrealistic villains, crazy gadgets, and a batgod who can stand up to the demigods of the JL.

I worry about that too. I don't want to see batman and superman as some exaggerated and dystopian versions of themselves. I'm expecting some strife and perhaps disastrous misunderstandings, but want to see them rise from that. That whole past their prime/former greats descending downward thing doesn't exactly herald in JL.

Exactly.

You know how Snyder could have gotten his wish for TDKR? Two ways.

1. Straight up adapt the future of this movieverse which would be the dystopian TDKR.
2. Tell a batman story that takes place in the present and future so we get to see young batman (the one that would be in Affleck's place had they not gone for an older bats) and his older self handling the same case.

But no, he had to force TDKR on the freaking origin of the JL for god's sake. I'd so love to see a young Batman who adopts Robin, who has some happy years with him, not jump to the 90ies era of post Jason's death grimdark batman.

 

[Reiter]

Is BatFleck actually SO much older and grizzled than BaleBats? Ben isn't a 57 year old man playing Batman. And I don't think we are personally going to get a TDKReturns characterization or world for the new DCCU. That's a hell of an assumption. If we get a trailer in a year an half that makes it seem so, well then I'm wrong and ya'll can take a bow. Still... Yeah, I don't see what others are seeing, mostly cuz we haven't seen much of ANYTHING as yet.

As I pointed out in my earlier post, Zack Snyder denied that he was going to use that version of Superman, and denied he was going adapt Dark Knight Returns.



He's going to be a veteran Batman, but not old man Batman.

1. TDKR batsuit. They are even using the emblem, the worst bat emblem to be put in a comic book. The absolutely freaking worst.

2. Snyder is a TDKR fanboy. He probably hasnt read anything else but it.

3. TDKR dialogue used at that comiccon that the movie was announced.

Yes, since then they've toned it down, they said they wouldnt fight so badly, that they're not adapting TDKR, but i still dont trust Snyder. You know how people say that us fanboys should never direct a movie? Yeah... that's the thing. Snyder is a fanboy.

But anyway, they said he would walk around the MoS set with a copy of All Star Superman in his hands and the movie was anything but All Star Superman. It was the direct antithesis. So who knows, maybe Snyder will fail adapting TDKR too.

Some people just refuse to hear this. I suppose that is a consequence of having your emotional dial locked on "worst case scenario".

Speaking for myself, i dont trust Snyder. In fact i really hate the decision to put a terribly mediocre director who fails at storytelling whenever he isnt adapting a comic book page by page at the helm of the entire movieverse. That should have been the job of someone who is amazing at storytelling.

 

[Reiter]

Is Geoff Johns involved with the DCCU? If so, that's even more reason for concern. I've been flipping through his Justice League book, in hopes that it might be better than the JL: War animated film that was based on it, but man, it downright sucks. Honestly, a 13 year old kid could've written a better story with better characterization and dialogue.

Someone like Bruce Timm or Paul Dini would've been a nice consultant.

Snyder+Goyer+Johns=Blech

I think he phones the scripts for JL in intentionally. He knows the book will sell anyways, so he concentrates on the books that trully need it, like Aquaman. I cant find another explanation for the utter **** that is JL, when at the same time Johns has given us the amazing GL, Aquaman and Flash runs, as well as the excellent new origin story for Shazam. His strength has always been writing the less popular heroes and making them popular. But i think he has admitted that he doesnt get Batman, WW or the New Gods and that shows.

I think he was involved with the production and writing of the GL movie which makes sense considering he's THE writer of GL. The one who made the franchise a best selling property worthy of a movie. I think they were going with a very nightmarish visual for Oa, the Guardians and the Lanterns, and Johns steered the plot and designs closer to canon. Sinestro actually looked like Sinestro and not like Ming like the concept art suggested. But in the end they mocked it all up, the plot, the CGI, even the casting. Such a pity.

So at the end of the day, when they shoot a character, i think that they should consult with the best writers of said character, but the final decisions should be made by the director who knows the medium of cinema best. But they should consult with the writers definitely. Can you imagine them talking with Morrison instead of just carrying around his book? I can picture him slapping Goyer across the face and going: "NO! NO! Just no!"

 

[hafizbat]

Johns' Justice League book is terrible, but to be fair he has written some good stuff in the past. In any case, whatever influence he has on this will be heavily diluted; imdb lists seven executive producers.

I agree that Dini would be the ideal mastermind for the whole cinematic DCU.

The first year is crap. The second year is better. The book is genuinely good/great now.

I have his "Throne of Atlantis" book sitting here to read next. I've actually heard some good things about it, so the jury is still out.

 

[Reiter]

Seven executive producers?

I hope they're not all getting paid 15 million like Jon Peters got for man if steel.

Why did he get paid all this money? What do these people offer?

I agree that Dini would be the ideal mastermind for the whole cinematic DCU.

Yes, yes, yes, yes!

The first year is crap. The second year is better. The book is genuinely good/great now.

I only like the Lex thing, but on the other hand Johns gave him more character moments and development than the rest of the league combined had these past three years. It was an empty book filled with carricatures doing... stuff. The Lex thing is interesting, but it shows that Johns has no interest in the leaguers themselves, but mostly other characters that he can throw in the league to make them popular (like the Metal Men, who i like, dont get me wrong).

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Johns contributions to GL were superfluous. He was brought in after the film began filming, and it wasn't delayed for a rewrite.

 

[metaphysician]

The only way they could be more divisive is if they have another character kill. Like Batman. But its kind of a one trick pony. Its already been done. And if its just as divisive as MOS, then it will affect the box office and do WB really want to risk that?

I disagree. Another way they could be more divisive is if they completely botch Wonder Woman. Granted, its dependent on how big her presence in the movie is, but if its big enough for the audience to have expectations? Having her come off as a T&A damsel in distress would be a disaster.

( I don't think its a high risk, though. While I am deeply worried about how they'll handle Wonder Woman, I don't think her presence in SvB will be big enough to matter. This is a JLA worry, basically. )

 

[metaphysician]

I think he phones the scripts for JL in intentionally. He knows the book will sell anyways, so he concentrates on the books that trully need it, like Aquaman. I cant find another explanation for the utter **** that is JL, when at the same time Johns has given us the amazing GL, Aquaman and Flash runs, as well as the excellent new origin story for Shazam. His strength has always been writing the less popular heroes and making them popular. But i think he has admitted that he doesnt get Batman, WW or the New Gods and that shows.

I think he was involved with the production and writing of the GL movie which makes sense considering he's THE writer of GL. The one who made the franchise a best selling property worthy of a movie. I think they were going with a very nightmarish visual for Oa, the Guardians and the Lanterns, and Johns steered the plot and designs closer to canon. Sinestro actually looked like Sinestro and not like Ming like the concept art suggested. But in the end they mocked it all up, the plot, the CGI, even the casting. Such a pity.

So at the end of the day, when they shoot a character, i think that they should consult with the best writers of said character, but the final decisions should be made by the director who knows the medium of cinema best. But they should consult with the writers definitely. Can you imagine them talking with Morrison instead of just carrying around his book? I can picture him slapping Goyer across the face and going: "NO! NO! Just no!"

*cough* My own opinion is that Johns is a decent writer, but terrible at self-control. He needs a strong editorial hand to keep him in check, which he hasn't had for years. So, the only really decent stuff he's done since is stuff where he's interested enough to put in effort, but not an emotionally involved fanboy.

( which is to say, no, I don't like his Green Lantern comics, or his second run of Flash where he brought back Barry Allen )

 

[The Endless]

Johns is like the Bendis of DC. They got too much power and didn't have strong editors to reel in their stupid ideas.

Johns retcons his own retcons whenever he pleases. If it isn't his continuity, he doesn't seem to care. And a lot of his stuff is like professional fan fiction.

He used to be a great writer. His older Flash stuff, JSA, Stars and STRIPEs... all awesome. But when he got more creative control he got too self indulgent.

 

[regwec]

I liked his work on Aquaman.

 

[Bwahaha!]

WB's not playing it safe. They simply don't know what safe is so I'm glad they are going full throttle. You can't go into this big of a cinematic universe with fear of taking risks or else it's bound to fail. It's not in their control what the movie they are destined to make becomes divisive. Now that most of the origin BS is out of the way, lets see if the team can come up with something that can now honor the mythology of these characters and pull something off beyond our wildest dreams. If they were to go the controversy route, which I'm sure they will, it needs to pack a big punch that effects the next installment's to come.

WB/DC drew their line in the sand. They have the tone of their movies set and how they want to tell their superhero stories on screen. You can't accomplish that without taking the risk first, especially being the TOTAL alternative to their competitors. I think the potential is huge to payoff.

Totally agree. And as it's been pointed out many, many times: there's more than one way to do this. If Avengers had come out first without the solo films, been outrageously successful and spun off into successful solo movies, that woulda been the template everyone supported. The fact is it CAN be done that way (heck, it WAS done that way with X-Men).

 

[zryson]

I disagree. Another way they could be more divisive is if they completely botch Wonder Woman. Granted, its dependent on how big her presence in the movie is, but if its big enough for the audience to have expectations? Having her come off as a T&A damsel in distress would be a disaster.

That's certainly a possibility and I wouldnt be at all surprised if Goyer and Snyder do end up ruining Wonder Woman on screen. Having seen what both brought to MOS, and the lack of character depth, its definitely possible.

 

[dnno1]

WB's not playing it safe. They simply don't know what safe is so I'm glad they are going full throttle. You can't go into this big of a cinematic universe with fear of taking risks or else it's bound to fail. It's not in their control what the movie they are destined to make becomes divisive. Now that most of the origin BS is out of the way, lets see if the team can come up with something that can now honor the mythology of these characters and pull something off beyond our wildest dreams. If they were to go the controversy route, which I'm sure they will, it needs to pack a big punch that effects the next installment's to come.

WB/DC drew their line in the sand. They have the tone of their movies set and how they want to tell their superhero stories on screen. You can't accomplish that without taking the risk first, especially being the TOTAL alternative to their competitors. I think the potential is huge to payoff.

Playing it safe is featuring Batman and Superman in feature films all the time. That's what the are dfoing now.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Playing it safe is featuring Batman and Superman in feature films all the time. That's what the are dfoing now.

er..no they are not.... the expanded universe is opening up, WB / DC is attempting something that has never happened before, that's not playing safe, it is something that's been needed for a long time... and I for one, applaud them for it and can't wait...

 

[TeeKay]

Wait a damn minute, wasn't Johns the guy talking **** about Marvel around the days GL was coming out and talking about how the film would open the flood gates for the DC Cinematic Universe?

As for BvS? I'm very cautous. At least Goyer is gone. He's poison whenever he's the sole writer of a script imo.

 

[zryson]

Wait a damn minute, wasn't Johns the guy talking **** about Marvel around the days GL was coming out and talking about how the film would open the flood gates for the DC Cinematic Universe?

As for BvS? I'm very cautous. At least Goyer is gone. He's poison whenever he's the sole writer of a script imo.

Goyer isnt gone at all. He's still with the movie.