Is fandom scaring away top talent?

[terry78]

Why is that? Because of her Israeli military service?

Probably.

 

[writer0327]

Honest question: Do fans even want top talent dipping their toes into these tentpole franchises and taking creative license with their beloved characters and stories? By all accounts, it seems the answer is NO.

 

[samsnee]

I think fans want validation that it isn’t “just for kids”

 

[Jh7058622]

Unless you are Quinton Tarantino trying to direct an R rated Sar Trek film.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

probably.

ffs

 

[Gold Samurai]

I recently read an article where the actor who played Jar Jar contemplated suicide after the how much hatred his character got. I can't imagine what it would have been like if Twitter existed back then. Lucas, to his credit, saw all this coming, which is probably why he sold. He even said when TFA came out that it was a movie that the fans would like, knowing that it was because it hewed so closely to the original Star Wars.

I can’t find the exact quote but George Lucas hated the criticism of his movies. He sold it off so he make stuff he liked.

It was something of that nature

 

[samsnee]

I think the Star Trek fan base is very different from the Star Wars one. Star Trek has churned out a steady stream of movies and tv over the last few years. Some have been better than others but fans generally accept the good with the bad.

Star Wars, until TFA, only had 6 movies in 40 years. The only new material was the Expanded Universe, which got swept under the rug. So in some ways I can understand the frustration.

 

[writer0327]

Star Wars, until TFA, only had 6 movies in 40 years. The only new material was the Expanded Universe, which got swept under the rug. So in some ways I can understand the frustration.

Yeah I'm starting to see it was a huge mistake on Lucas's part to let other creators make SW material.

 

[terry78]

But they *****ed when he made the stories he wanted to tell with the prequels. So there was no winning. I heard some guys say Lucas should have just left the OT alone and left it at that and allowed us to fill in blanks.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think fans want validation that it isn’t “just for kids”

Hmm... Please explain how you see this connecting to this situation over all exactly? I have read FCH on this as well but think there's a blindspot in the view. After all one can want a story that indeed has stakes and be serious in it's adaptation of any kind of material and that doesn't translate into anything in terrms of social media. I thought say THOR RAGNAROK was funny but ultimately failed in having any dramatic weight what so ever. And yet... I am not on twitter harassing Taika or Hemsworth. I am not in the RAGNAROK threads on the Hype every day arguing about the film with it's fans. I get FCH (Film Critic Hulk) point to a degree but think his observation and conclusions (on this and a few other issues when judging these genre works) is a bit muddled to say the least.

That and he needs to stop mentioning that he's written books on film making in every piece he writes.

 

[samsnee]

Well I think some fans want validation and recognition for what they think is a more than just stories for kids. So when they don’t get that, or least what they think it should be in their view, they take it personally.

 

[-JKR-]

Honest question: Do fans even want top talent dipping their toes into these tentpole franchises and taking creative license with their beloved characters and stories? By all accounts, it seems the answer is NO.

Honest answer: YES.
And your post scares me, and encapsulates what I don't like and worries me about the current fandom.

 

[Fallen]

 

[LoganGambit87]

Snyder's a different scenario because for every fan that attacks him, there's another one who jumps to his defense. Which is fine, but when those same people start sending death threats because someone gave Batman v. Superman a bad review, that's when it gets nuts.

snyder got it pretty bad people were even making fun of his daughters suicide

 

[samsnee]

I honestly didn’t see that on these boards. People who hated everything about what he did with BvS didn’t go to personal attacks over that.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Thankfully I never came across that either.

 

[Zarex]

Well I think some fans want validation and recognition for what they think is a more than just stories for kids. So when they don’t get that, or least what they think it should be in their view, they take it personally.

I would agree. Genre works that were formerly thought to be primarily the dominion of "nerds" have become 4 quadrant attractions. But despite that there is still a considerable degree of insecurity amongst the fanbases. Interpretations that don't put their beloved characters on pedestals are a concern for fear it opens them up to derision from "outsiders". That insecurity creates quite a toxic environment.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well I think some fans want validation and recognition for what they think is a more than stories for kids. So when they don’t get that, or least what they think it should be in their view, they take it personally.

Eh... I still think that's more a lateral criticism if you will. Most fans putting in enough passion and enthusiasm to go online regularly are folk that have deep emotions connected to these genre works, whether it's Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel/DC Super heroes, Harry Potter or what have you. Those fans' "taking it seriously " are the reason there is a core audience to begin with. Yeah I can see where there is an ossue with "validation" but look at the biggest fan freakout of recent times, some fan reactions to THE LAST JEDI. The film got the validation from professional critics. Hamill was singled out for his performance as doing something really great. Validation in a sense had zero to do with the vocal fans' online dissatisfaction with the movie. I can see it more being a case of a lack of self awareness rather than it being about validation. Johnson's story, how he portrayed Luke's disillusionment... he played that straight and with weight. He "validated" the material by taking it seriously on most levels, right? That wasn't the issue with fans' reaction. They didn't reject the tone of TLJ, they rejected the story itself and the characterization. I agreed with most of FCH's thinking in his piece on the TLJ reaction among a section of the hard core actually. I just think the issue of fans' wanting the stories to take themselves seriously or whatever is a bit more tangential. If anything there's a lot more of the validation issue wrapped up in the box office numbers obsession in modern fandom I think.

In any case I go back to simple self awareness. There is none apparent if people are going on Twitter essentially harassing creators and talent. There's no self awareness evident when fans make petitions to "strike a film from the canon" or try to raise money to film their own new version. Hell I think it's evident here on the Hype when even years after a film's release people feel the need to continue arguing and complaining (no not debating, not having a conversation just simple arguing and complaining) about a film that disappointed them. I can't help but feel that such a constant need to do as such, for some literally every day just isn't healthy, mentally speaking and speaks to a lack of being able to take a step back and evaluate oneself.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Social media is the bane and downfall of modern life, it's to blame for so much. Hate it, hate it, hate it !!!! 'Licensed & approved' bullying.

This. It isn't just fandoms of entertainment properties. Check out the comments to any article or Youtube video, etc. It can be ANYTHING and it will still be a bunch of people screaming obscenities at each other, calling each other racist/sexist, making death threats, etc. It is why I only hang out on moderated boards like this one.

 

[samsnee]

I do agree I find these petitions to strike the movie from canon or release the Snyder cut to be a tad ridiculous.

Media is also part of the problem. Look at Rotten Tomatoes. It used to just be a review aggregation site and now it’s also used as validation of whether a movie is worthy or not.

Goes back to the original point. If I’m a director, unless I really needed a big break, I would definitely hesitate to sign onto a franchise picture.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah...

Honestly, the grace Johnson has handled this all with is admirable though.

Goes back to the original point. If I’m a director, unless I really needed a big break, I would definitely hesitate to sign onto a franchise picture.

I honestly can't think of a good reason why one would do it at this point unless money was the main motivating factor. I think all the fun and appeal that was once there has been sucked out of it. You'd have to really be a total ninja at compartmentalizing and not letting the toxic stuff f*** with you.

 

[writer0327]

Honest answer: YES.
And your post scares me, and encapsulates what I don't like and worries me about the current fandom.

Are you sure?

I mean, personally I know I want top talent working with the major tentpoles, I want creative and unique voices telling me stories within my favorite franchises. I don't want corporate cookie-cutter stories approved by a boardroom of executives and made for the lower common denominator fan, just to ensure the film ticks off all the right boxes and doesn't offend anyone's personal head canon, and doesn't change a character in a way they don't like.

But are we so sure EVERYONE wants this? Because it's one thing to not like a film, and quite another to pour venom and be completely nasty towards a filmmaker just because he/she made a movie you didn't like. I had to tell a guy railing about TLJ that Disney is making a SW film every year, so chances are if they make 10 films over the next 10 years, one of these films will piss you off. So just enjoy the other nine, but no, fans expect every film in their franchise to be utter perfection or they'll cry a river about it. Listening to some of these people being crabby about Ant-Man and the Wasp, how disappointing it was and how the box office is underwhelming,....just frankly irritating.

It seems like folks just want to be on the negative side of everything.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Are you sure?

I mean, personally I know I want top talent working with the major tentpoles, I want creative and unique voices telling me stories within my favorite franchises. I don't want corporate cookie-cutter stories approved by a boardroom of executives and made for the lower common denominator fan, just to ensure the film ticks off all the right boxes and doesn't offend anyone's personal head canon, and doesn't change a character in a way they don't like.

But are we so sure EVERYONE wants this? Because it's one thing to not like a film, and quite another to pour venom and be completely nasty towards a filmmaker just because he/she made a movie you didn't like. I had to tell a guy railing about TLJ that Disney is making a SW film every year, so chances are if they make 10 films over the next 10 years, one of these films will piss you off. So just enjoy the other nine, but no, fans expect every film in their franchise to be utter perfection or they'll cry a river about it. Listening to some of these people being crabby about Ant-Man and the Wasp, how disappointing it was and how the box office is underwhelming,....just frankly irritating.

It seems like folks just want to be on the negative side of everything.

Critical mind yes. Critical spirit? That's another kettle of fish. Not everyone is going to agree on all things in films. Nor should they. But you can't just lump everyone into one category either.

I for one am for sure in the group (a minority it would seem on the Hype given the way it's being talked about all over here) that was indeed underwhelmed by A-M&TW. I found it to be while not bad just kinda perfunctory on almost all levels. I laughed a few times but everything else felt kinda on autopilot to me. The cool mini-action figure credit sequence at the end felt more inspired to me than most of the film. Did I want perfection? No. But I think it's in my right to express myself appropriately that I found something, while not offensively bad, certainly mediocre by my standards. Now ask me if I'm gonna be in the ANT-MAN AND THE WASP threads day in and day out arguing this with it's fans? I'm 99% sure it's not gonna turn out like that. At this point I realize you don't really change anyone's minds about their opinion about YOUR opinion. I felt DEADPOOL 2 was the same. Sure I laughed but everything else felt pretty flat to me. Now... Ask me if I'm gonna harass Paul Rudd or Ryan Reynolds about this disappointment I had in their movies not being what I would have liked? I'm not going to do that sort of asinine **** because I'm a grown ass man.

 

[BatLobster]

Critical mind yes. Critical spirit? That's another kettle of fish. Not everyone is going to agree on all things in films. Nor should they. But you can't just lump everyone into one category either.

I for one am for sure in the group (a minority it would seem on the Hype given the way it's being talked about all over here) that was indeed underwhelmed by A-M&TW. I found it to be while not bad just kinda perfunctory on almost all levels. I laughed a few times but everything else felt kinda on autopilot to me. The cool mini-action figure credit sequence at the end felt more inspired to me than most of the film. Did I want perfection? No. But I think it's in my right to express myself appropriately that I found something, while not offensively bad, certainly mediocre by my standards. Now ask me if I'm gonna be in the ANT-MAN AND THE WASP threads day in and day out arguing this with it's fans? I'm 99% sure it's not gonna turn out like that. At this point I realize you don't really change anyone's minds about their opinion about YOUR opinion. I felt DEADPOOL 2 was the same. Sure I laughed but everything else felt pretty flat to me. Now... Ask me if I'm gonna harass Paul Rudd or Ryan Reynolds about this disappointment I had in their movies not being what I would have liked? I'm not going to do that sort of asinine **** because I'm a grown ass man.

Unfortunately, this is how fandom breaks down in my mind now. The mature, and the immature. That's where the biggest divide is.

Mature fans can disagree about a movie but still have a civil discussion/debate about it. It's what has kept me coming back to the Hype over the years. The immature ones...well...they've always been a nuisance but they're kind of spoiling it for everyone at the moment and killing the whole vibe.

 

[batdude]

Critical mind yes. Critical spirit? That's another kettle of fish. Not everyone is going to agree on all things in films. Nor should they. But you can't just lump everyone into one category either.

I for one am for sure in the group (a minority it would seem on the Hype given the way it's being talked about all over here) that was indeed underwhelmed by A-M&TW. I found it to be while not bad just kinda perfunctory on almost all levels. I laughed a few times but everything else felt kinda on autopilot to me. The cool mini-action figure credit sequence at the end felt more inspired to me than most of the film. Did I want perfection? No. But I think it's in my right to express myself appropriately that I found something, while not offensively bad, certainly mediocre by my standards. Now ask me if I'm gonna be in the ANT-MAN AND THE WASP threads day in and day out arguing this with it's fans? I'm 99% sure it's not gonna turn out like that. At this point I realize you don't really change anyone's minds about their opinion about YOUR opinion. I felt DEADPOOL 2 was the same. Sure I laughed but everything else felt pretty flat to me. Now... Ask me if I'm gonna harass Paul Rudd or Ryan Reynolds about this disappointment I had in their movies not being what I would have liked? I'm not going to do that sort of asinine **** because I'm a grown ass man.

I liked both of those, but Really? if I didn't, I wouldn't obsess about it on the internet. What happened to Kelly Marie Tran was wrong. IT WAS HER FIRST BIG MOVIE. Some of these fans just go way too far.