Is fandom scaring away top talent?

[batfreakforever]

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

Everyone is acting like teenagers. But at the end of the day the only thing the nerds have is nostalgia, while the "offended" party has millions for downright terrible movies.

Also if Rian Johnson is top talent, what is bottom shelf? I mean, I thought JJ Abrams was a visionless hack. The man is ****ing Kubrick next to Johnson.

Maybe I wouldn't be so critical if I they didn't put out such complete ****. They brought Star Wars and the entire DC Universe to its knees.

Nerds don't only just have nostalgia. They have 1000's of hours of entertainment in their favourite subject matter like Star Wars with books, games, movies, tv series, comic books, toys, and other types of merchandise. You can endlessly pick and choose whatever you want to enjoy within those universes and nobody is forcing you too.
Just because Rian Johnson is a millionaire doesn't mean he cannot engage with his fans in a nice manner on social media without abuse behaviour from rude fans that hated his work. Why should filmmakers even try to engage with fans when they get berated online all the time for just wanting to talk to fans that like the films that they made for them. It would be overwhelming frustrating as a filmmaker to enjoy those talks. Filmmakers are just as passionate as fans because they are fans too. You are being rude and you feel offended because the new Star wars films didn't go your way.
Btw I love the DCEU films. Some films more than others and lots of people online hate those films with every second article saying those films suck and seem to have failed in every possible way at a cinematic universe to some people but that takes nothing away from my enjoyment and love of those films.
I enjoyed the TLJ and @#$ing loved what they did with Luke. All of it.

 

[writer0327]

I can't speak to how extreme the guy in question was being in his complaints, but just looking at the 10 movies in 10 years scenario, it kind of makes it sound like these are 10 self-contained reboots that have no effect on each other, and fans are making a huge deal about one island unto itself instead of waiting a year for the next one.

Rather, The Last Jedi was unfortunate enough to fall in the intersection between (1) fans of the original trilogy and/or the EU who have a vested interest in what kind of Jedi Master Luke ends up being and think the opportunity to do it right in film is now blown (2) fans who take canon seriously and care about what canonically happens to the original trilogy characters rather than just pretending everything after the original trilogy didn't happen (with the decanonization of the EU only exacerbating it), and (3) fans of The Force Awakens who care about whether the story of those characters pans out. So I don't think Rogue One or the first movie in Rian's proposed trilogy would garner the same level of animosity relative to how good they are, because there just isn't as much riding on them.

TLJ indeed had a lot riding on it, but so does every SW film according to the fandom. The conversation me and this gentleman were having was more along the lines of throwing your hands up and giving up on a franchise on the strength (or weakness) of one film. This person liked the other 3 movies (TFA, R1, Solo) very much, but is ready to throw in the towel on the entire franchise because TLJ pissed him off. It's an odd stance, for me anyway.

I can understand your points and they lend to what we already know about the fandom: they came in with preconceived notions and their own personal head canon. The consensus of fans had already predetermined (or it was fed to them by the EU) what they wanted the OT characters to be like, who Luke, Han, and Leia were coming into TFA, TLJ, etc. This is the reason why every SW discussion forum you go into nowadays, someone wants to know who will be playing Mara Jade. The whole reason for jettisoning the EU material was to allow directors with unique voices and stories to tell to come in and tell their own unique stories using these characters, but the fandom doesn't seem to want that. This is the reason for my question. Does the consensus of fans want top talent making their franchise films?

 

[Mandon Knight]

I don't think how much money someone has in their bank account determines a right or any right to determine whether they are or not viable to on-line or verbal abuse.

Bullying is bullying, abuse is abuse, at any level, or aimed at anyone, it's not acceptable in society. Person A believing they have a legitimate reason or valid proximity through whatever means of communication to intimidate and cause anguish to person B is simply not acceptable, never has been, never will be. In my day it was in a school yard or having the snot kicked out of you on the way home or to school, these days people have a keyboard and social media to wreck their furious vengeance on those whom they believe need to hear them and sadly believe they deserve such anger aimed towards them.

Yes, RJ made a film, that many did not enjoy, fine that's a point of view, people now see that as fact and believe they are owed something by SW & KK for their time and trouble and their emotional dispensation as a result. They are not, yet Facebook, Twitter and Christ knows what enable a platform for hate and people re-tweeting or adding to this is simply a modern day manifestation of that school yard scenario of people shouting 'Fight Fight Fight !!' from the side lines. We live in a sickening world and I refuse to take part in social media for any number of reasons and I'm considered archaic amongst my friends and peers, I don't care, I've lived a life of being bullied, I know it's cause & effect, I don't need to partake in it or see it's brutality anymore, sadly it's everywhere, and social media has encourage and validated an age where bullying is acceptable. If it was up to me (and its not obviously) I would tear down every social media site and accessible point down, we survived before without and we would again, the problem is, society no longer knows how too or wishes to live without it or knows how to engage civilly with each other, and this is your outcome.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To quote my all-time favorite character, "I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from."

 

[samsnee]

I just found one this morning from Christopher McQuarrie (whose discussion with Rian Johnson last weekend probably prompted samsnee to create this thread).

Reminds me of an episode of 30 Rock where Tina Fey's character goes to her high school reunion thinking she was a nerd that was always picked on. But then she realizes she was actually the bully because she would make mean, nasty comments to anyone who tried to be nice to her as a defensive reflex because she thought she was an outcast.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

To quote my all-time favorite character, "I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from."

I thought that was a Superman quote.

 

[jmc]

I mentioned this in another thread but I think the industry's reliance on existing properties, or properties with built in fan bases is part of the problem. On one hand it's a guaranteed money maker, but on the other hand if the films don't live up to expectations there will be backlash. The more I think about a series like Star Wars, as much as I grew up loving it, the more I believe it no longer does anyone any favours to continue it as a film series. No amount of top lined talent is going to be enough for some people because there's too much emotion attached to it, and emotions cause irrational behaviour.

I think what has to happen is Hollywood needs to start going back to the drawing board and come up with some new ideas. They don't have to be $200m movies, they just have to be in search of a new audience. When you start building something new you're less likely to be dealing with the kind of behaviour we see at present by virtue of there being no expectations upon a new film. You only have to look at the success of the John Wick series to see how you can develop a franchise without getting the type of irrational responses we've seen with Star Wars. This is how it use to be. The problem just isn't the fans, it's the emotion attached to the IP's themselves.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Or just teach people to not be morons and some common decency.

 

[jmc]

Easier said than done.

 

[Ozbridge]

Or just teach people to not be morons and some common decency.

Another easier and quicker solution is actually enforcing the “no harassment/ bigotry” rule in all social media’s User Agreement. When Kelly Marie Tran still kept her Instagram I almost always reported a few users whenever she posted something and I found it worked a bit, just not as efficient as I wish.

Or as a last resort that brings result immediately, the directors/ writers/ actors can make their accounts private.

 

[samsnee]

I thought that was a Superman quote.

It's from Captain America: The First Avenger

 

[writer0327]

I mentioned this in another thread but I think the industry's reliance on existing properties, or properties with built in fan bases is part of the problem. On one hand it's a guaranteed money maker, but on the other hand if the films don't live up to expectations there will be backlash. The more I think about a series like Star Wars, as much as I grew up loving it, the more I believe it no longer does anyone any favours to continue it as a film series. No amount of top lined talent is going to be enough for some people because there's too much emotion attached to it, and emotions cause irrational behaviour.

I think what has to happen is Hollywood needs to start going back to the drawing board and come up with some new ideas. They don't have to be $200m movies, they just have to be in search of a new audience. When you start building something new you're less likely to be dealing with the kind of behaviour we see at present by virtue of there being no expectations upon a new film. You only have to look at the success of the John Wick series to see how you can develop a franchise without getting the type of irrational responses we've seen with Star Wars. This is how it use to be. The problem just isn't the fans, it's the emotion attached to the IP's themselves.

I couldn't agree more, but tell studios to give up hundreds of millions or billions in cash, especially when these tentpoles fund the entirety of the studios' slate for the rest of the year.

 

[Ozbridge]

I couldn't agree more, but tell studios to give up hundreds of millions or billions in cash, especially when these tentpoles fund the entirety of the studios' slate for the rest of the year.

Of course they won’t. At worst studios ask their employees to delete all public accounts on social media.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Or just teach people to not be morons and some common decency.

If it hasn't happened in the history of human existence, it isn't about to now. People have always been morons and lacked common decency. It was true 100 years ago. It was true 200 years ago. It was true 2000 years ago.

I see only two realistic solutions:

1. Social media sites hire moderators then start laying down the ban hammer on abusive people.
2. The artists stop using social media.

The law is no help either as these people are all from differing countries. A director from the United States isn't going to be able to lay charges on an abusive troll from Russia.

 

[Spider-Fan]

If it hasn't happened in the history of human existence, it isn't about to now. People have always been morons and lacked common decency. It was true 100 years ago. It was true 200 years ago. It was true 2000 years ago.

I see only two realistic solutions:

1. Social media sites hire moderators then start laying down the ban hammer on abusive people.
2. The artists stop using social media.

The law is no help either as these people are all from differing countries. A director from the United States isn't going to be able to lay charges on an abusive troll from Russia.

I approve of both solutions

 

[Mysteryman]

I dont blame creators for walking away.
But, I do feel that I lose something when they do.

 

[Aximili86]

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

No. You're supposed to acknowledge that when a few years down the road proven-talent directors aren't taking these jobs and studios are handing them out to second-rate guys instead, the nerd-b*tching absolutely has something to do with that.

And these millionaires can handle the b*tching. They just don't want to, because life's too short for humoring you people, and they don't owe you jack.

Have such a huge problem with what the people getting these jobs are doing, go direct your own indie movie or go to film school or whatever, put in the effort to break into the industry and show 'em all how it's done. Nerds know best, after all.

They didn't start out precious millionaires, either. That comes with achievement.

 

[samsnee]

As much as I didn't like BvS, when it comes to directing these movies, maybe the only approach to fans is

 

[moviedoors]

The more I think about a series like Star Wars, as much as I grew up loving it, the more I believe it no longer does anyone any favours to continue it as a film series.

Considering The Last Jedi is now my favorite Star Wars movie, continuing this franchise did me a BIG favor.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I want more Star Wars movies too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I also want Star Wars movies. Honestly, TLJ gave me more of what I wanted than the other ones did (though I enjoyed all the Disney ones to varying levels...though Solo was the most "meh" for me). I just thought it was more creative and bold. I don't want to see pseudo remakes of the OT or prequels that just explain the lore without saying something.

 

[godisawesome]

If it hasn't happened in the history of human existence, it isn't about to now. People have always been morons and lacked common decency. It was true 100 years ago. It was true 200 years ago. It was true 2000 years ago.

I see only two realistic solutions:

1. Social media sites hire moderators then start laying down the ban hammer on abusive people.
2. The artists stop using social media.

The law is no help either as these people are all from differing countries. A director from the United States isn't going to be able to lay charges on an abusive troll from Russia.

As a teacher, I one time read an article that stated that, of all the social media platforms, YouTube was the only one that evidence said had a net positive effect on a teenager's mental health. Now, that wasn't necessarily because of bullying or anything like that: YouTube has infamous comments for a reason, and the main issue with stuff like Instagram was that people became unhealthily fixated and addicted to maintaining a "too good to be true" image. But! Bullying and anonymous social interaction were also contribution to the problem.

Some of these platforms simply aren't conducive to any kind of in depth discussion or comment. Twitter is more useful for short hand advertisement than political or social commentary. Instagram is supposed to just share images. To me, if you can't write out a four or five paragraph argument on whatever your social media is, than its probably useless for discussing what worked or didn't work about a film.

And none of this, even YouTube, can compensate for actual face-to-face communication. Fans need to stop trying to direct their ire at creators in anonymous social media accounts, and if they ever get involved with the creators at all, man up and do it face to face at a convention or in an interview. GIFT is too powerful of a corrupting influence.

Heck, think about this; most creators have a positive expereince at conventions and stuff like that, where at least they can get face to face with the fans.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

@samsnee; that approach with Martha gif is appropriate.
It saddens me to say that such sentiment should be used.

If it hasn't happened in the history of human existence, it isn't about to now. People have always been morons and lacked common decency. It was true 100 years ago. It was true 200 years ago. It was true 2000 years ago.

If people don't have it, why do we call it common?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If people don't have it, why do we call it common?

Touché.

I'm not going to lie and say I don't use Twitter at all. I do think it has value when it comes to breaking news. If I'm following some ongoing event such as election results, trying to get an update for an injured athlete, waiting to see if a show I watch gets cancelled, etc., I do use it. But I avoid any sort of commentary for the sake of my sanity. I am very glad I grew up when I did when this stuff didn't exist. I don't know how I would have handled things as a kid.

 

[Aximili86]

That's such a bull**** statement, the "we've always been this way as a society" thing.

People weren't sending death threats to Marquand and anti-little-people mail to Warwick Davis over "Return Of The Jedi was for babies and you're all going to hell for Ewoks! Especially you, Lollipop Guild!".

Dekker wasn't getting harassed for 6 months over Robocop 3. The Superman III & IV guys weren't getting jack beyond bad critical reviews and a mild comment or two at a convention or film festival or whatever.

Yes, social media's a big part of this. But pretending basic civil interaction hasn't deteriorated over the last 10-15 years or so is pretty willfully friggin' ignorant. EpI seems to have been a pretty big watershed moment as far as fan backlash, but now we've advanced to death threats & longtime harassment over the Facebox & the Tweeties.

These people are basically Christian Bale in meltdown mode on the Salvation set, but 24/7, as actual people.