Comics Is Joe Q right about there being less stories with a married Pete?

Do you?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
Dragon said:
Not at this point. MJ and Peter should be long past the "will they cheat on each other" point. It's boring. That's another problem that brought down the relationship with Gwen. At this point, after all they've been through, Peter and MJ should have a bond that something as simplistic as another guy or girl with a shiny package could threaten.

To a point Joe Q is right, but he doesn't have the vision to exploit it. Peter and MJ's marriage needs to address new paths unique to their situation. Not just marital problems in relation to Peter's being a superhero. The writer that handles their relationship has to do be able to find the right balance between how the marriage effects these two peopl on both a fantstic level and an everyday one.

I have to disagree with some elements of your post. I don't think anything Mara Jane said would be "boring". What's become "boring" is the status quo of the marriage.

What Mara Jane is attempting to do is introduce "drama" into the strip. In order for readers find the Parker marriage interesting things need to happen to them as a couple to make them say:

'What happens next?"

"How will Pete and MJ overcome _____"?

"I can't believe this is happening"! "I can't wait to see how this ends"!

"Do they love each other another to stay married after ______"?

"Will Pete be able to forgive MJ (or vice versa) after______"

She's not advocating open infidelity. But if Pete and MJ are happy all the time it makes things dull. They need to have problems with each other as individuals. They need to have forces working against them as a couple. Things that significantly impact one of their lives will inenvitably affect the life of the other. They need to have highs and lows. The drama doesn't have to happen with another love interest. It could be brought about as a family crisis, health scare, change in job status, a new member of the supporting cast, a conflict with an existing cast member, etc.

Let's face it, Pete and MJ were more interesting to read about "as a couple" while JMS was putting them back together than they are now. For the record, I'd like to see them stay together. Yet, I wouldn't mind watching them overcome obstacles to stay together.
 
Eye Doc said:
I have to disagree with some elements of your post. I don't think anything Mara Jane said would be "boring". What's become "boring" is the status quo of the marriage.

What Mara Jane is attempting to do is introduce "drama" into the strip. In order for readers find the Parker marriage interesting things need to happen to them as a couple to make them say:

'What happens next?"

"How will Pete and MJ overcome _____"?

"I can't believe this is happening"! "I can't wait to see how this ends"!

"Do they love each other another to stay married after ______"?

"Will Pete be able to forgive MJ (or vice versa) after______"

She's not advocating open infidelity. But if Pete and MJ are happy all the time it makes things dull. They need to have problems with each other as individuals. They need to have forces working against them as a couple. Things that significantly impact one of their lives will inenvitably affect the life of the other. They need to have highs and lows. The drama doesn't have to happen with another love interest. It could be brought about as a family crisis, health scare, change in job status, a new member of the supporting cast, a conflict with an existing cast member, etc.

Let's face it, Pete and MJ were more interesting to read about "as a couple" while JMS was putting them back together than they are now. For the record, I'd like to see them stay together. Yet, I wouldn't mind watching them overcome obstacles to stay together.

My point is that this isn't Gilmore Girls or Desperate Houswives, where the BIGGEST thing in their lives is who's dating who- who's cheating on whom.

And- as much as I hate The Other- after what happened in that hospital; Peter coming back from death to save MJ- soap opera BS like the handsome hunk from MJ's past isn't going to come between them. Only Gwen, whose love with Peter transcended earthly, every stuff could threaten their relationship.

What will make MJ and Peter an interesting couple is going beyond mere soap dish stuff. MJ being integral in the stories, and the impact on her life, being human and faced with cataclysmic events that even a superhuman struggles to survive. And- as has been mnentioned, MJ doesn't have to be in every story. But when she's there, it should mean something.
 
Dragon said:
My point is that this isn't Gilmore Girls or Desperate Houswives, where the BIGGEST thing in their lives is who's dating who- who's cheating on whom.

And- as much as I hate The Other- after what happened in that hospital; Peter coming back from death to save MJ- soap opera BS like the handsome hunk from MJ's past isn't going to come between them. Only Gwen, whose love with Peter transcended earthly, every stuff could threaten their relationship.

What will make MJ and Peter an interesting couple is going beyond mere soap dish stuff. MJ being integral in the stories, and the impact on her life, being human and faced with cataclysmic events that even a superhuman struggles to survive. And- as has been mnentioned, MJ doesn't have to be in every story. But when she's there, it should mean something.



Spider-Man was created as the ultimate teenage escapism fantasy. It still worked when he was in college. A single Spider-Man is the version that became so justly famous.

The book's title shouldn't be "The Amazing Adventures of Peter and Mary Jane".

Imagine driving a car with cube-shaped wheels as opposed to normal tires.

That's the point Spider-Man is at now.
 
You don't need to have a soap opera to make a relationship interesting.
 
WOLVERINE25TH said:
You don't need to have a soap opera to make a relationship interesting.


LISTEN YOU DUMB ****, I WAS TRYING TO BE CIVIL BUT IF YOU WANT TO GO TO WAR THEN HAVE AT IT *******! I am entirely sick and tired of you marchin' around these boards sayin' the same stupid **** OVER, and OVER, and OVER again! And others are too. You contribute NOTHING new. You have no concept of ANYTHING invovled in the creative process in comics.
So just shut up. You're not this almighty know-it-all like you flaming think you are!




Oh. Wait.

I don't talk like that.
 
Mara Jane said:
JQ says the soap opera element is missing. It doesn't seem like they've tried lately.

I'd like to see an old flame of MJ's show up to interview for a job at Stark Enterprises. He's just finished his Ph.D. (something Peter never did) and is brilliant. He doesn't have superpowers, though (kinda how Pete sometimes wishes he didn't). He and MJ go way back, maybe they dated in high school before she ever met Pete. But somehow things didn't work out (maybe his parents hated her or something). This guy could be like MJ's "Gwen" - the one that got away. He makes MJ - and Pete - wonder what life could have been like otherwise. For her, what if they hadn't broken up? Would she have become a model, etc? For Pete, this guy is what he could have been if he'd never been a superhero - a dedicated man of science who is about to be offered a $100K/year job. But to make matters more bizarre, Peter really likes the guy, and they become friends. I guess he could somehow fit in where Harry is now missing. Except this guy is still single (and since this is a visual medium, he'll be attractive, too) and can create a little tension with MJ once in a while.

How about that?


this could be a very interesting story. and it's not cheating but **** like that comes up in marriage. they act like his marriage is perfect except his spidey stuff what if it's not. what if he's possessive and she the jealous type youknow.
 
Dragon said:
Not at this point. MJ and Peter should be long past the "will they cheat on each other" point. It's boring. That's another problem that brought down the relationship with Gwen. At this point, after all they've been through, Peter and MJ should have a bond that something as simplistic as another guy or girl with a shiny package could threaten.

To a point Joe Q is right, but he doesn't have the vision to exploit it. Peter and MJ's marriage needs to address new paths unique to their situation. Not just marital problems in relation to Peter's being a superhero. The writer that handles their relationship has to do be able to find the right balance between how the marriage effects these two peopl on both a fantstic level and an everyday one.


i agree with the blue portion of your statement.
 
Dragon said:
My point is that this isn't Gilmore Girls or Desperate Houswives, where the BIGGEST thing in their lives is who's dating who- who's cheating on whom.

And- as much as I hate The Other- after what happened in that hospital; Peter coming back from death to save MJ- soap opera BS like the handsome hunk from MJ's past isn't going to come between them. Only Gwen, whose love with Peter transcended earthly, every stuff could threaten their relationship.

Who says only Gwen could come between them? Are you saying that Peter can have an ex-lover that he can love as much as MJ, but MJ can't have an ex she loves/loved as much as Peter?

Honestly, I think this would be interesting b/c now the shoe would be on the other foot. Peter would have to come to grips with how it feels that your significant other also has feelings for an ex lover. MJ has always lived with the fact that Peter probably wouldn't have married her if Gwen had lived. Why can't it be that way for Peter?

MJ has never been the type to stay at home alone. I'm sure there are other guys in her background, even if they were never guys she fell in love with. Having one of these guys come back could create all sorts of drama. You could have someone from her past show up and he doesn't even have to be a love interest. If you create an interesting backstory for him, or her, the character could still disrupt the Parker's life for awhile.


What will make MJ and Peter an interesting couple is going beyond mere soap dish stuff. MJ being integral in the stories, and the impact on her life, being human and faced with cataclysmic events that even a superhuman struggles to survive. And- as has been mnentioned, MJ doesn't have to be in every story. But when she's there, it should mean something.

You make it sound as if the soap opera elements would hurt the book. In reality, when the book was at it's best it was a soap opera. If you take Peter's love life out of the equation, Stan's Spider-Man was still a soap opera (money problems, family problems, job hassles, conflicts with supporting cast members, etc.) I can remember a book I read about the Silver Age superheroes several years ago. The author said that it was the soap opera aspects of Spider-Man (and the other Marvel characters for that matter) that made him so interesting, especially when compared his DC counterparts.

Can you really disagree with me when I say that Spider-Man has always been at it's best when Peter's "personal life" is interesting? This doesn't mean "easy". Nor does it have to mean "difficult". His life should have a balance of both.

Eye Doc

PS--I can remember an interview w/ Romita Sr. a few yrs. back. Someone asked him how Spidey would've turned out had he and Stan stuck around longer. He said they probably would've turned the book on it's ear and come up with all sorts of plot twist and status quo changes to keep them (and the readers) from getting bored. I would've loved to see what they came up with.
 
Dragon said:
Not at this point. MJ and Peter should be long past the "will they cheat on each other" point. It's boring. That's another problem that brought down the relationship with Gwen. At this point, after all they've been through, Peter and MJ should have a bond that something as simplistic as another guy or girl with a shiny package could threaten.

To a point Joe Q is right, but he doesn't have the vision to exploit it. Peter and MJ's marriage needs to address new paths unique to their situation. Not just marital problems in relation to Peter's being a superhero. The writer that handles their relationship has to do be able to find the right balance between how the marriage effects these two peopl on both a fantstic level and an everyday one.

Oh, I don't really see it as an actual infidelity thing, necessarily. Although, you'd have to ask yourself, what if Gwen was still around? Would MJ feel particularly secure? Probably not, even though Pete would likely never cheat. It could be like that. For example, let's say they're all friends and spend time together. But Pete is always running to off to be hero. MJ is very understanding and wouldn't stray, but the guy might wonder about Pete... maybe he'd think Pete's cheating on MJ by running off all the time and would want to defend her.

JQ is the one that said the "soap opera" element was missing, not me, btw. While I do agree that it is a part of Spider-Man's world, like it or not, I don't see how ending the marriage is necessary to bring that back into the story.
 
Eye Doc said:
Who says only Gwen could come between them? Are you saying that Peter can have an ex-lover that he can love as much as MJ, but MJ can't have an ex she loves/loved as much as Peter?

Honestly, I think this would be interesting b/c now the shoe would be on the other foot. Peter would have to come to grips with how it feels that your significant other also has feelings for an ex lover. MJ has always lived with the fact that Peter probably wouldn't have married her if Gwen had lived. Why can't it be that way for Peter?

MJ has never been the type to stay at home alone. I'm sure there are other guys in her background, even if they were never guys she fell in love with. Having one of these guys come back could create all sorts of drama. You could have someone from her past show up and he doesn't even have to be a love interest. If you create an interesting backstory for him, or her, the character could still disrupt the Parker's life for awhile.




You make it sound as if the soap opera elements would hurt the book. In reality, when the book was at it's best it was a soap opera. If you take Peter's love life out of the equation, Stan's Spider-Man was still a soap opera (money problems, family problems, job hassles, conflicts with supporting cast members, etc.) I can remember a book I read about the Silver Age superheroes several years ago. The author said that it was the soap opera aspects of Spider-Man (and the other Marvel characters for that matter) that made him so interesting, especially when compared his DC counterparts.

Can you really disagree with me when I say that Spider-Man has always been at it's best when Peter's "personal life" is interesting? This doesn't mean "easy". Nor does it have to mean "difficult". His life should have a balance of both.

Eye Doc

PS--I can remember an interview w/ Romita Sr. a few yrs. back. Someone asked him how Spidey would've turned out had he and Stan stuck around longer. He said they probably would've turned the book on it's ear and come up with all sorts of plot twist and status quo changes to keep them (and the readers) from getting bored. I would've loved to see what they came up with.

Excellent points. I definitely would love to see the shoe on the other foot in regards to Pete and Gwen. Why can't MJ have a former love as Peter does?
 
Mara Jane said:
Excellent points. I definitely would love to see the shoe on the other foot in regards to Pete and Gwen. Why can't MJ have a former love as Peter does?

Mara Jane:

Did you like how I was able to slip your "mystery man" into MJ's backstory without screwing up anything in Spidey's established continuity?

Eye Doc
 
Eye Doc said:
Who says only Gwen could come between them? Are you saying that Peter can have an ex-lover that he can love as much as MJ, but MJ can't have an ex she loves/loved as much as Peter?

Honestly, I think this would be interesting b/c now the shoe would be on the other foot. Peter would have to come to grips with how it feels that your significant other also has feelings for an ex lover. MJ has always lived with the fact that Peter probably wouldn't have married her if Gwen had lived. Why can't it be that way for Peter?

Yes. I'm saying exactly that. We KNOW how deeply Peter loved Gwen because we saw it. Simply tossing in "some guy" from MJ's past that she never mentioned who just happened to be the secret love of her life- and just happens to coincidentally step back into their lives is creatiing too many coincidences. We don't need new retcons. If they had to go in that direction, It'd be better to establish a whole new character that presents MJ with the things that life with Peter doesn't.

You make it sound as if the soap opera elements would hurt the book. In reality, when the book was at it's best it was a soap opera. If you take Peter's love life out of the equation, Stan's Spider-Man was still a soap opera (money problems, family problems, job hassles, conflicts with supporting cast members, etc.) I can remember a book I read about the Silver Age superheroes several years ago. The author said that it was the soap opera aspects of Spider-Man (and the other Marvel characters for that matter) that made him so interesting, especially when compared his DC counterparts.

I somewhat agree with you. But the problem is, that with all that's happened since that time, going back to that type of story telling right now won't work.
There needs to be first, rectifying of all the crap going on in the comics. Then, a cooling off period. Then we can get into some of that stuff. But I'm guaranteeing that it can't just be every soapy stuff. Fans will drop the books faster than they are now. We were getting all of that back during Mackie's run. And another thing- few writers have proven to be as skillful as jumbling a cast as Stan Lee was. JMS can't do it. Peter David isn't showing much promise with it with his revival of "teenaged Flash".

Can you really disagree with me when I say that Spider-Man has always been at it's best when Peter's "personal life" is interesting? This doesn't mean "easy". Nor does it have to mean "difficult". His life should have a balance of both.

I agree that the comics should focus on Peter's personal life. But not dried up stuff like jealousy. It's too easy, simplistic and cheez-ball after all that Peter and MJ have been through. If there was going to be any type of love triangle at this point- it would have to be something on a level that we've never seen. Like (forgive me for this, but it's off the top of my head and i'm in a rush) MJ being claimed, possessed or whatever by the Spider God. No- I wouldn't want to see that, but it'd have to be something on that level. I'm saying that Peter and MJ's connection is- MUST BE beyond this everyday BS.



PS--I can remember an interview w/ Romita Sr. a few yrs. back. Someone asked him how Spidey would've turned out had he and Stan stuck around longer. He said they probably would've turned the book on it's ear and come up with all sorts of plot twist and status quo changes to keep them (and the readers) from getting bored. I would've loved to see what they came up with.

I would love to have seen that as well, because Stan knew what he was doing. But I gotta tell ya, if Stan stayed, Gwen would be Spidey's wife. Stan modeled her after his own wife, so that would've been the one Spidey would've wound up with.
 
Mara Jane said:
Oh, I don't really see it as an actual infidelity thing, necessarily. Although, you'd have to ask yourself, what if Gwen was still around? Would MJ feel particularly secure? Probably not, even though Pete would likely never cheat. It could be like that. For example, let's say they're all friends and spend time together. But Pete is always running to off to be hero. MJ is very understanding and wouldn't stray, but the guy might wonder about Pete... maybe he'd think Pete's cheating on MJ by running off all the time and would want to defend her.

JQ is the one that said the "soap opera" element was missing, not me, btw. While I do agree that it is a part of Spider-Man's world, like it or not, I don't see how ending the marriage is necessary to bring that back into the story.

I never thought you meant actual cheating. I'm just saying that MJ and Peter wouldn't cheat on each other, we know it, so trying to use that against them at this point won't work IMO. That's too simplistic. At this point the writers need to dig deeper.

As for if Gwen was around. It wouldn't matter that Peter wouldn't cheat. MJ would be fearful (And she'd be right-) That part of Peter would want to be with Gwen. And we all know that for women, emotional infidelity is just as bad as physical infidelity.

But the difference is that the relationship with Gwen is substantial because it's clearly established. It's even clearly established that Peter still loves Gwen. An MJ romance isn't. So, as I'd said above- if they were going to with such a pedestrian approach, then they might as well establish a new relationship, rather than giving us another retcon. Remember how unbelievable MJ's secret knowledge about Gwen came off? Now she has a secret lover? What's next- a secret baby? We need not go there.
 
Dragon said:
Yes. I'm saying exactly that. We KNOW how deeply Peter loved Gwen because we saw it. Simply tossing in "some guy" from MJ's past that she never mentioned who just happened to be the secret love of her life- and just happens to coincidentally step back into their lives is creatiing too many coincidences. We don't need new retcons. If they had to go in that direction, It'd be better to establish a whole new character that presents MJ with the things that life with Peter doesn't.

I'll respectively disagree. MJ was gone from the books from issue 190 or so up until the early 230's. In real time that's almost 4 yrs. I'm sure she didn't sit at home pining for Peter while she was in Florida. I mean it didn't take him long to hook up with Felicia whe they broke up. Why would you expect things to be different for MJ? MJ has been known to keep secrets. That's not something she would just bring up to Peter (assuming such a story was ever written). I try never to bring up my ex to my current girlfriend.



I somewhat agree with you. But the problem is, that with all that's happened since that time, going back to that type of story telling right now won't work.
There needs to be first, rectifying of all the crap going on in the comics. Then, a cooling off period. Then we can get into some of that stuff. But I'm guaranteeing that it can't just be every soapy stuff. Fans will drop the books faster than they are now. We were getting all of that back during Mackie's run. And another thing- few writers have proven to be as skillful as jumbling a cast as Stan Lee was. JMS can't do it. Peter David isn't showing much promise with it with his revival of "teenaged Flash".

I think we need to give PAD more time on the Flash angle. I agree with everything else you said though.


I would love to have seen that as well, because Stan knew what he was doing. But I gotta tell ya, if Stan stayed, Gwen would be Spidey's wife. Stan modeled her after his own wife, so that would've been the one Spidey would've wound up with.

I wonder if he would've actually gone thru with that in the 70's?
 
Eye Doc said:
I'll respectively disagree. MJ was gone from the books from issue 190 or so up until the early 230's. In real time that's almost 4 yrs. I'm sure she didn't sit at home pining for Peter while she was in Florida. I mean it didn't take him long to hook up with Felicia whe they broke up. Why would you expect things to be different for MJ? MJ has been known to keep secrets. That's not something she would just bring up to Peter (assuming such a story was ever written). I try never to bring up my ex to my current girlfriend.

Of course I'm not saying that MJ wouldn't have dated or been seriously involved with anyone else. I'm saying that she wouldn't have been that serious over a guy and said nothing to Peter. Remember, she did her whole life story reveal to Pete. She wouldn't have held back with that. Let's remember that it was a good amount of time between MJ's return to New York and her and Peter actually getting back together. She'd have had no problem telling him about an ex-boyfriend, since Peter was involved with Felicia then anyway.

But moreover, I'm just saying that such a thing is small potatoes compared to the rest of their life, just like her career as model and actress is small potatoes. Right now, to make the marriage interesting they need something more than an old boyfriend.
 
Dragon said:
I never thought you meant actual cheating. I'm just saying that MJ and Peter wouldn't cheat on each other, we know it, so trying to use that against them at this point won't work IMO. That's too simplistic. At this point the writers need to dig deeper.

As for if Gwen was around. It wouldn't matter that Peter wouldn't cheat. MJ would be fearful (And she'd be right-) That part of Peter would want to be with Gwen. And we all know that for women, emotional infidelity is just as bad as physical infidelity.

And it's not bad for men?

But the difference is that the relationship with Gwen is substantial because it's clearly established. It's even clearly established that Peter still loves Gwen. An MJ romance isn't. So, as I'd said above- if they were going to with such a pedestrian approach, then they might as well establish a new relationship, rather than giving us another retcon. Remember how unbelievable MJ's secret knowledge about Gwen came off? Now she has a secret lover? What's next- a secret baby? We need not go there.

Ok, first you say we need something new, and then you're saying that we need something that's based on something already clearly established? That seems contradictory to me.

Who's to say that MJ hasn't told Pete about this guy, just because we weren't privy to it? Maybe when he shows up, MJ can mention he's the guy she knew once, and Pete could say, "Oh, that John Smith." All couples at some point discuss past relationships, like who they lost their virginity to. Readers don't really need all the nitty-gritty details of MJ's past, because, as has been pointed out, this is Spider-Man's book, not MJ's, so it might make sense that we wouldn't know about this guy. This new wrinkle would build on her history, not necessarily retcon anything.

Sorry if this example seems so simple, but frankly, I think readers are more interested in simple stuff right now. All these outrageous Spidey storylines lately have really peeved a lot of us off. And keep in mind, this would be a subplot, not a major thing. I see it as a way to bring in new blood - Pete needs a friend that isn't a superhero and Flash apparently has been turned into a jerk again, so he doesn't fit.

~Mara Jane
 
MaraJanesSlave said:
And it's not bad for men?

It is bad for men, but not as bad as actual, physical infidelity.

Ok, first you say we need something new, and then you're saying that we need something that's based on something already clearly established? That seems contradictory to me.

That's not what I said. I said that IF they were to go that route, they should start a new relationship rather than giving us another retcon. And that it's more legit with Peter because it was established already, unlike MJ. There's no retcon with Peter loving Gwen.

Who's to say that MJ hasn't told Pete about this guy, just because we weren't privy to it? Maybe when he shows up, MJ can mention he's the guy she knew once, and Pete could say, "Oh, that John Smith." All couples at some point discuss past relationships, like who they lost their virginity to. Readers don't really need all the nitty-gritty details of MJ's past, because, as has been pointed out, this is Spider-Man's book, not MJ's, so it might make sense that we wouldn't know about this guy. This new wrinkle would build on her history, not necessarily retcon anything.

It is a retcon. It isn't as huge a retcon as MJ knowing that Gwen cheated on Peter with Osborn, but it's still a retcon. I'm saying that Marvel needs to establish goodwill with the fans, and more retconing, big or small won't do that.

Sorry if this example seems so simple, but frankly, I think readers are more interested in simple stuff right now. All these outrageous Spidey storylines lately have really peeved a lot of us off. And keep in mind, this would be a subplot, not a major thing. I see it as a way to bring in new blood - Pete needs a friend that isn't a superhero and Flash apparently has been turned into a jerk again, so he doesn't fit.

~Mara Jane

I don't think we need simple. Skin Deep was simple. Moving into Stark Towers is simple. The new suit is definitely simple. We need quality story-telling. Like I said, and this is purely my opinion- the marriage, to be established as being something important needs something better than another jealousy subplot. But if they must go with that, create a new, interesting character to present a new perspective. A new guy that shows MJ what her life could be like if she weren't with Peter. Hell, make him just like Peter minus the Spider powers. the Flash thing shows just how bad an idea it is to move backward.
 
Dragon said:
My point is that this isn't Gilmore Girls or Desperate Houswives, where the BIGGEST thing in their lives is who's dating who- who's cheating on whom.

And- as much as I hate The Other- after what happened in that hospital; Peter coming back from death to save MJ- soap opera BS like the handsome hunk from MJ's past isn't going to come between them. Only Gwen, whose love with Peter transcended earthly, every stuff could threaten their relationship.

What will make MJ and Peter an interesting couple is going beyond mere soap dish stuff. MJ being integral in the stories, and the impact on her life, being human and faced with cataclysmic events that even a superhuman struggles to survive. And- as has been mnentioned, MJ doesn't have to be in every story. But when she's there, it should mean something.

Bring back Kingsley as the Hobgoblin. Allow him to learn Peter's secret. Have MJ and Peter deal with that reality. Then have him kidnap, blackmail, threaten MJ. This could be worked in over a year or two.
 
Dragon said:
Of course I'm not saying that MJ wouldn't have dated or been seriously involved with anyone else. I'm saying that she wouldn't have been that serious over a guy and said nothing to Peter. Remember, she did her whole life story reveal to Pete. She wouldn't have held back with that. Let's remember that it was a good amount of time between MJ's return to New York and her and Peter actually getting back together. She'd have had no problem telling him about an ex-boyfriend, since Peter was involved with Felicia then anyway.

I still think a woman can date a guy and not bring it up to her husband. MJ may have told Peter about her childhood and family history, but I don't recall her saying anything about her lovelife. Just because Felicia was involved with Peter while MJ was away doesn't mean that MJ is obligated to tell him who she was involved with in Florida.

In one of your post you said inserting such a character into MJ's past would be a retcon. I disagree. A retcon is going back and saying that what you read, or what was clearly established in the character's canon, didn't happen.

For example, the clone saga was a huge retcon. In the original story, the Jakal died and the clone died. Suddenly, we're told that both were still alive and that the guy we thought was Peter was actually a clone. Inserting something into the backstory that doesn't contradict anything isn't a retcon. It's really just a means to adding more to a character's backstory and the overall mythos. If you go with your point of view, Tom DeFalco's brilliant backstory for MJ is a retcon because it didn't appear in the early issues but was added years after the character first appeared in the series.


But moreover, I'm just saying that such a thing is small potatoes compared to the rest of their life, just like her career as model and actress is small potatoes. Right now, to make the marriage interesting they need something more than an old boyfriend.

No one is saying that a mystery guy "needs" to be added. I agree with what you said earlier about there needing to be a "cooling off" period. So, if something like this was ever done, it should not be in the immediate future.

I have no problem with a writer using another plot device to make the marriage interesting. The point Mara Jane and I were making was that this could be a way of introducing "drama" into the strip. Some of the love stories I've enjoyed the most are the ones were the couples have to fight against outside forces to keep the love intact and eventually grow stonger because of it.

But, what you said is true, this doesn't "have" to happen. The are dozens of directions a writer could take the couple.

Eye Doc

PS--Thanks for the replies.
 
Eye Doc said:
I still think a woman can date a guy and not bring it up to her husband.

A "woman" certainly can keep secrets from her husband. But you're speaking in general terms. We need to speak in character specific terms. Most husbands and wives don't share the sort of secrets that Peter and MJ do. Or share the type of intense life history these two have. Because of the nature of trust between them, it's unlikely that MJ specifically would hold back about a serious love affair from Peter. Remember how artificial MJ's secrets seemed in Sins Past? That's how this would appear.

MJ may have told Peter about her childhood and family history, but I don't recall her saying anything about her lovelife.

That's because she never had a lovelife. She dated guys, but it's pretty clear that she only really loved Peter. Also, the very fact that before MJ came clean about her life, she insulated herself from being involved in serious relationships, and even explained why she didn't want to be in those sorts of relationships, it makes it that much more unrealistic that it happened. That she, for both love of Peter and not wanting to be roped into a committed thing would end the relationship before it got too serious.

Just because Felicia was involved with Peter while MJ was away doesn't mean that MJ is obligated to tell him who she was involved with in Florida.

Again- it's not about obligation- it's about who these people are. Look- I've made it no secret that I don't think MJ has the character mileage that Gwen does. I think her character is pretty shallow; Not in the personality sense, but in terms of being a character to generate stories from. But- if she and Peter have anything, it's trust. Marvel screwed her character big time with Sins Past by making her harbor these ridiculous secrets and that damaged the appearance of the relationship between her and Peter. If they keep having her reveal new secrets everytime things get stale, it's not going to help fortify the marriage, but ultimately be the dissolution of it.

In one of your post you said inserting such a character into MJ's past would be a retcon. I disagree. A retcon is going back and saying that what you read, or what was clearly established in the character's canon, didn't happen.

A retcon is also altering prior events or omitting/adding key elements that either did or did not exist. As I said to Mara Jane, I'm not saying this would be a major retcon. But I'm saying because fans have so little trust of Marvel, continuing to toss retcons out there, even small ones isn't going to make things better. Especially since the main point of the story concept you and Mara Jane are bringing up doesn't need a retcon to be presented. As I said, the same result could come from a totally new character.

If you go with your point of view, Tom DeFalco's brilliant backstory for MJ is a retcon because it didn't appear in the early issues but was added years after the character first appeared in the series.

That IS a retcon. In fact, it's one of the worst, and when I first read it, I knew the floodgates were going to be opening to terrible effect. That retcon is what's led us to things like Sins Past. MJ should never have been written to have always known Peter's secret. It was a cheap gimmicky idea that did nothing for the characters or their relationship. She could have easily figured it out in real time to the same results.

I have no problem with a writer using another plot device to make the marriage interesting. The point Mara Jane and I were making was that this could be a way of introducing "drama" into the strip. Some of the love stories I've enjoyed the most are the ones were the couples have to fight against outside forces to keep the love intact and eventually grow stonger because of it.

I agree that good drama needs to be injected into the stories. And I won't say in an all encompassing statement that another love triangle won't work.
But I honestly feel that to dig Spidey out of the hole he's in, quite a bit more needs to be done.
 
This thread's looking interesting. Gonna have to wander through it later.
 
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