Is Sabretooth the son of Dog Logan?

[Logan's Runt]

I like that idea a lot. I don't know if that 4 part Sabretooth series was cannon or not but in it, it showed how his father would keep him in a basement chained up and with a muzzle.

The thing is, at that young age it showed him already having the sharp teeth and claws which is why his father had a muzzle and chains on him.

If that is cannon then I don't think Sabretooth is Dog Logan or the song of Dog Logan. It's been awhile but from what I can remember that Sabretooth miniseries also showed his mom or it could have just been some broad that was with his dad.

I think its ridiculous to even consider Dog Logan as Sabretooth, as much so as claiming that Rose somehow was reincarnated as Jean Grey.

 

[Figs]

Yeah, that I can never buy. If they were to at some point in the comics say that Jean Grey is Rose reincarnated, that would be the biggest shark jump ever.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Why do some people have such a hard time accepting that not all Wolverine stories have to have friggin' Sabretooth??


Dog was Dog. He was a new character. He is not Sabretooth.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think its ridiculous to even consider Dog Logan as Sabretooth, as much so as claiming that Rose somehow was reincarnated as Jean Grey.

That's a gross exaggeration. There's plenty of good reasons for people to assume Dog is Sabertooth.

1.) Sabertooth and Logan were intended to be related, Chris Claremont has said so. Though another writer changed that later, they never cut out the possibility of them having some other kind of relation, such as being a brother or half brother.

2.) Sabertooth has had a feud with Wolverine that has dated back almost exactly to around the time Origin ended. The episode with Silver Fox was in the early 1900s. Origin ended in the early 1900s. Origin also gives Sabertooth (if he is indeed Dog) a perfect reason for hating Logan.
*Logan got the nice rich dad while Dog/Sabes got the poor abusive dad.
*Logan spent more time with Rose, who Dog/Sabes had a thing for.
*Logan killed his father and got to run off with the girl Dog/Sabes liked
*Logan stole his name

3.) Logan and Sabertooth have extremely similar mutations, so it doesn't seem to odd to assume that they may be related in some way.

4.) Sabertooth has memories of an abusive parent. Dog had an abusive parent. While Sabertooth's memories are of a different father abusing him, it's been stated that he doesn't even know if those memories are real (because of Weapon X tampering with his mind). Weapon X could have simply took his memories of being abused and changed it a bit so he wouldn't know his full past.

5.)Then there's Dog's appearance. He looks like Sabertooth, and when he fought Logan he acted just like Sabertooth. The only, and I mean only thing that set him apart from Sabertooth was that it appeared his healing ability wasn't powerful enough to heal away scars. And that can be easily explained away, as I've said before. Besides that, it appeared Dog had all the attributes Sabertooth did.

He was big, strong, and he tracked Logan to the middle of nowhere with nothing to go on, something Sabertooth has been able to do year after year on Logan's birthday.



To say that assuming Dog could be Sabertooth is crazy is simply faulty logic. Personally, I think it's a perfect origin for Sabertooth to be Dog. Not only does it tie him closer to Logan, it adds a bit of tragedy into their story. They're two brothers, but all they've been trying to do for the past hundred years is rip each other's throats out.

 

[Logan's Runt]

I'm just a proponent that not every storyline has to tie into 3000 other storylines and make a big soap opera story circle in a obvious predictable way.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I'm just a proponent that not every storyline has to tie into 3000 other storylines and make a big soap opera story circle in a obvious predictable way.

Oh, I can understand that. And I don't want Logan to be connected to every character in every story. Like others have said, I would have thought it was horrible had rose somehow been related to or been reincarnated into Jean Grey.

However, in the case with Sabertooth, since his past is obviously closely tied with Logan, I thought it would have fit nicely to have him be Dog. It just seems to fit better. If Sabertooth wasn't Dog, then Logan would have had to meet him probably not more then five to ten years after Origin happened, and then do something to Sabes to get him to hate Logan intensely. A hate that's obsessive to a maximum scale.

Dog already had a reason for that hate, and it just seems to fit with the character.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Why does it have to be that reason? There could be a million reasons. It doesn't have to be the Origin story. I see Origin as its own story arc...it is the story of Wolverine. In fact, that's one of the things I've always liked about it....it doesn't have to rely on any other characters from X-Men to tell its story.


Personally, I've always thought something seemingly small should be the reason for Sabretooth's hatred of Wolverine. Something like Silver Fox preferring Logan to him. Something that would seem small to someone else, but to Sabretooth means so much more.

 

[Logan's Runt]

Why does it have to be that reason? There could be a million reasons. It doesn't have to be the Origin story. I see Origin as its own story arc...it is the story of Wolverine. In fact, that's one of the things I've always liked about it....it doesn't have to rely on any other characters from X-Men to tell its story.


Personally, I've always thought something seemingly small should be the reason for Sabretooth's hatred of Wolverine. Something like Silver Fox preferring Logan to him. Something that would seem small to someone else, but to Sabretooth means so much more.

It seems more fitting to me to have Origin be an open and closed arc, with the ending representing a 'break' in Logan's life before re-emerging from the wild and 'starting over' only to meet a whole lot of the same kinds of people and still repeat his mistakes.

And it would only add to Sabes' psychopathy to have some simple little slight ignite a lifelong vendetta.

It also has seemed to me that for the duration of their time together in Weapon X with Maverick, they got along reasonably well- friendly, even. I was under the impression that this was before the animosity between them really started, but that's arguable with the amount of mind-tampering that is implied with Weapon X I suppose. That was my understanding, though.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I've always thought it'd be great if it was something to do with his inner psyche rather than an actual big event that triggers his hatred. He was abused as a child and stuff as we've all seen, and thus would suffer from severe feelings of rejection.

Here's a dude who's a massive monster and could take almost anyone apart, and rather than a drastic turn of events to set him off, it's merely being rejected again in favour of Logan, even after he's become so strong.

I think that'd be awesome.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Why does it have to be that reason? There could be a million reasons. It doesn't have to be the Origin story. I see Origin as its own story arc...it is the story of Wolverine. In fact, that's one of the things I've always liked about it....it doesn't have to rely on any other characters from X-Men to tell its story.

Why does it have to be that reason? It doesn't really, you could come up with any reason to why Sabertooth hates Logan. But the fact that Dog has already had a perfect reason to hate Logan, combined with all the other factors that link him to Sabertooth, it seems that there is a good chance he could be.

I know Jenkins didn't intend him to be Sabertooth, but I think he did a bad job at that. He made Dog basically a carbon copy of Sabertooth, just with scars on his face. If he really had wanted to separate the two, he should have done something to make them less similar.

Personally, I've always thought something seemingly small should be the reason for Sabretooth's hatred of Wolverine. Something like Silver Fox preferring Logan to him. Something that would seem small to someone else, but to Sabretooth means so much more.

That's a perfectly reasonable explanation for Sabertooth hating Wolverine as well. I just prefer him being Dog. I've always thought that Wolverine's and Sabertooth's origins were and should be, closely linked. Heck, the guy that made their feud so popular intended that as well.

Really though, I just like him being Dog more then I do another origin. That's just my preference. I don't mind if people want it otherwise, I just didn't think it was fair to say that the idea Dog could be Sabertooth was way off mark.

It also has seemed to me that for the duration of their time together in Weapon X with Maverick, they got along reasonably well- friendly, even. I was under the impression that this was before the animosity between them really started, but that's arguable with the amount of mind-tampering that is implied with Weapon X I suppose. That was my understanding, though.

They were semi-friendly to each other at that point, but as the episode with Silver Fox took place in the early 1900's, their feud has obviously been going on for quite some time. I would say that the brain tampering made them forget their feud for the time being.

And I also find it interesting that when their memories were erased they were friends for a bit. Dog and Logan started out friends as well, and had it not been for Dog's abusive father (which in turn led to his own shift in personality to the more violent) Dog and Logan may have stayed friends.

 

[the dmg]

Something like Silver Fox preferring Logan to him. Something that would seem small to someone else, but to Sabretooth means so much more.

That kind of goes along with what I said a couple of posts up, that Dog and Rose are meant to resemble characters that the readers can relate to. Silver Fox actually makes a lot of sense, and is a great idea.

It is possible that Sabretooth had been rejected by Silver Fox (never really explained), and grew jealous of Wolverine "taking" his woman. It makes sense since Sabretooth has pretty much killed any woman that Wolverine has been close with.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Origins eads to this

Wolverine Is the Illegimate son of Thomas Logan

Wolverine's brother who dies caused the marks on his mother's back.

We can assume she was pregenent with Wolverine and her first son had bone claws and scratched her.One question Is what exactly happened.There was vague refernces to soemthing tragic happening .

Dog Is eather Sabretooth or Sabretooth's Father.

With all the fake memorys we have no Idea when was real regarding Silver Fox.Int famous story from Wolverine Issue 10 was just a fake memory since Silver Fox was not killed at the time.

 

[Rac]

If they were to at some point in the comics say that Jean Grey is Rose reincarnated, that would be the biggest shark jump ever.

Wow wow wow! Wtf? Has this been adressed in the comics somehow or is just a fan speculation? I hope the latter.

I mean wtf. That kinda thing has never occured to me. Okay, they both have red hair. Big deal. Logan has a thing for redheads.

If they ever retcon something like that. I'll fcking, I don't know, stop reading Marvel comics.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Origins eads to this

Wolverine Is the Illegimate son of Thomas Logan

Wolverine's brother who dies caused the marks on his mother's back.

We can assume she was pregenent with Wolverine and her first son had bone claws and scratched her.One question Is what exactly happened.There was vague refernces to soemthing tragic happening .

Dog Is eather Sabretooth or Sabretooth's Father.

With all the fake memorys we have no Idea when was real regarding Silver Fox.Int famous story from Wolverine Issue 10 was just a fake memory since Silver Fox was not killed at the time.

We're not sure on what part of that was fake and what was real, or if it was completely fake. Some writers (after Silver Fox was shown to be alive) have gone back and acted like the death of Silver Fox still happened.

Also, in some scene they actually had Logan find, or they showed (I'm not sure which) an actual cabin with Logan and Silver Fox's name carved into a tree. So it seems at some point and time the two did share a cabin together.

It's pretty complicated really.

 

[Ken]

That's a gross exaggeration. There's plenty of good reasons for people to assume Dog is Sabertooth.

1.) Sabertooth and Logan were intended to be related, Chris Claremont has said so. Though another writer changed that later, they never cut out the possibility of them having some other kind of relation, such as being a brother or half brother.

2.) Sabertooth has had a feud with Wolverine that has dated back almost exactly to around the time Origin ended. The episode with Silver Fox was in the early 1900s. Origin ended in the early 1900s. Origin also gives Sabertooth (if he is indeed Dog) a perfect reason for hating Logan.
*Logan got the nice rich dad while Dog/Sabes got the poor abusive dad.
*Logan spent more time with Rose, who Dog/Sabes had a thing for.
*Logan killed his father and got to run off with the girl Dog/Sabes liked
*Logan stole his name

3.) Logan and Sabertooth have extremely similar mutations, so it doesn't seem to odd to assume that they may be related in some way.

4.) Sabertooth has memories of an abusive parent. Dog had an abusive parent. While Sabertooth's memories are of a different father abusing him, it's been stated that he doesn't even know if those memories are real (because of Weapon X tampering with his mind). Weapon X could have simply took his memories of being abused and changed it a bit so he wouldn't know his full past.

5.)Then there's Dog's appearance. He looks like Sabertooth, and when he fought Logan he acted just like Sabertooth. The only, and I mean only thing that set him apart from Sabertooth was that it appeared his healing ability wasn't powerful enough to heal away scars. And that can be easily explained away, as I've said before. Besides that, it appeared Dog had all the attributes Sabertooth did.

He was big, strong, and he tracked Logan to the middle of nowhere with nothing to go on, something Sabertooth has been able to do year after year on Logan's birthday.



To say that assuming Dog could be Sabertooth is crazy is simply faulty logic. Personally, I think it's a perfect origin for Sabertooth to be Dog. Not only does it tie him closer to Logan, it adds a bit of tragedy into their story. They're two brothers, but all they've been trying to do for the past hundred years is rip each other's throats out.

This is so Dead on. Lets not forget that famous quote from the book.....Will out find my grandson?
I shall hunt him till the end of time! He has every reason to hate his guts. I mean just the jelousy alone. James parents loved him and so did their mutual love intrest and all logan, sabertooths dad did is beat him every night.

Not to mention they showed the sick and twisted side of Dog or sabertooth as a child. Like when he cut up jame's puppy. I mean thats classic sabertooth there.

 

[Ken]

Origins eads to this

Wolverine Is the Illegimate son of Thomas Logan

Wolverine's brother who dies caused the marks on his mother's back.

We can assume she was pregenent with Wolverine and her first son had bone claws and scratched her.One question Is what exactly happened.There was vague refernces to soemthing tragic happening .

Dog Is eather Sabretooth or Sabretooth's Father.

With all the fake memorys we have no Idea when was real regarding Silver Fox.Int famous story from Wolverine Issue 10 was just a fake memory since Silver Fox was not killed at the time.

This quote leads me to belive that you DONT know what happend to wolverines older brother. As he reached puberty like wolverine, he claws came out, he tired to hide them and ended up scratching him mother. They sent him away to a mental hospital. where he was kept in a straight jacket for a long time, confined. Till one day he was taken out to be experimented on...to be controlled as a super soilder....minus the adimantium. He was the orginal Weapon X.

Thats why his mother was so messed up and always stayed in her room. and before she shot her self she said not you too......

 

[Ken]

Wow wow wow! Wtf? Has this been adressed in the comics somehow or is just a fan speculation? I hope the latter.

I mean wtf. That kinda thing has never occured to me. Okay, they both have red hair. Big deal. Logan has a thing for redheads.

If they ever retcon something like that. I'll fcking, I don't know, stop reading Marvel comics.

This has been addressed in comics. There is an issue where wolverine is killed by sabertooth. He goes to heaven and hes about the enter the gates. he sees Jean. he asks her what are you doing her. She says shes her for him and she keeps calling him James. She wants to take him to the other side of the gates, she says once we get there youll remember who you are. As they are going, wolverine sees all the comrads he has lost in battle and they are fighting all the bad guys that are dead. collusus asks him for help, he looks at jean and says i never let a freind down.......when the fight ends he looks the gate, Jean is behind it and he calls out to her, wait...and the gate closes she says she will be waiting for him, she yells out jean and she says....no..rose and she drops a rose.

thats the most they covered but once orgin introducd Rose, who did everything for him, saved him, was her first and only love and a love that he killed by accident it became clear that his instant infatuation and undieing love for Jean is purely Phycological. Forgive my spellings. It has NOTHING to actually do with jean grey

 

[Ken]

That kind of goes along with what I said a couple of posts up, that Dog and Rose are meant to resemble characters that the readers can relate to. Silver Fox actually makes a lot of sense, and is a great idea.

It is possible that Sabretooth had been rejected by Silver Fox (never really explained), and grew jealous of Wolverine "taking" his woman. It makes sense since Sabretooth has pretty much killed any woman that Wolverine has been close with.

Sabertooth killed Silverfox for revenge. But on a subconcious level. He felt like he should have been with Rose and Wolverine stole that from him. She was the only person who was kind to him and he romantizied her. So when he had the chance (in the comics) He raped and killed her on her birthday. Sabertooth was sitting there waiting for him eating her birthday cake saying she was delicsous.

ofcourse she didnt die, we later learn that she was involved with the weapon X program along with Maverick.

 

[Balthus Dire]

In order for that theory to be true, Sabretooth would have to be Dog Logan. And he's not.

 

[Ken]

In order for that theory to be true, Sabretooth would have to be Dog Logan. And he's not.

My feelings are that he is, based on the surrouding evidence that Origin provides. Their similar traits, and some what similar looks.

 

[Balthus Dire]

They don't have similar traits. The only similarity they have is their look. If Dog didn't wear those furs when he goes out hunting for Logan, you wouldn't think he was Sabretooth at all.

 

[Infinity9999x]

They don't have similar traits. The only similarity they have is their look. If Dog didn't wear those furs when he goes out hunting for Logan, you wouldn't think he was Sabretooth at all.

They have quite a bit in common.

1.) As you mentioned, their look. They look almost exactly the same aside from the scarred face.

2.) The way they talk, when Dog talked, from issue 2 on, he sounded like Sabertooth. Even as a teenager. Listen to what he says to Rose, that's exactly what I would expect a teenage Sabertooth to say to a girl. Not only that, the way Dog talked while fighting Logan sounded just like Sabertooth, taunting Logan with hints about his past is exactly the thing Sabertooth did all the time, and guess what, Dog did it too!

3.) They both have an obsessive hatred for Logan, one that is so strong they're both willing to track him anywhere to find him.

4.) They Both had an abusive father.

5.) They both are amazing trackers. Dog somehow managed to find Logan in the middle of the Canadian wilderness, with literally nothing to go on.


Sabertooth and Dog are basically exactly the same except for one thing, the scars on Dog's face, and as I've said before, those can easily be explained away.

 

[Logan's Runt]

They don't have similar traits. The only similarity they have is their look. If Dog didn't wear those furs when he goes out hunting for Logan, you wouldn't think he was Sabretooth at all.

Thank Jeebus somebody else around here makes sense.

Its like there can only be one sadistic bastard in the Marvel universe.

What I meant with the Jean Grey/Rose comparison was this: you all agree that trying to connect Rose to Jean Grey in some way is ridiculous- because they're meant to be separate characters who share similarities and explain some things later in Logan's life. The Dog character was meant for the same use. (Smitty was to an extent, too.) Its equally as ridiculous to want to make Dog be Sabes as it is to want to make Rose be Jean in some silly comic book universe twist.

 

[Logan's Runt]

From Wiki:

The writer, Paul Jenkins, stated in interviews that he personally had not intended Dog to be Sabretooth.[10]

The actual quote:
"Who knows? In my mind, Dog is not intended to be Sabretooth, but he could be. It doesn’t matter. As long as the next writer respects the character and writes a simple story, anything could happen."

 

[Infinity9999x]

Thank Jeebus somebody else around here makes sense.

Its like there can only be one sadistic bastard in the Marvel universe.

What I meant with the Jean Grey/Rose comparison was this: you all agree that trying to connect Rose to Jean Grey in some way is ridiculous- because they're meant to be separate characters who share similarities and explain some things later in Logan's life. The Dog character was meant for the same use. (Smitty was to an extent, too.) Its equally as ridiculous to want to make Dog be Sabes as it is to want to make Rose be Jean in some silly comic book universe twist.

No, no it's not. As I've already posted, there is MUCH more evidence to support Dog being Sabertooth then Jean being related to Rose.

Heck, they're practically the same character! I don't feel like typing out the same post I did last night, but as I showed above, there are multiple reasons why people could think Dog was Sabertooth.

Sabertooth's Origin was meant to be closely connected with Wolverine. This was stated by the man who made their feud popular to begin with. To say that it's ridiculous to assume Dog could be Sabertooth is simply ignorant.

Saying you don't like the idea that Dog could be Sabertooth, that's fine, but don't insult the intelligence of the proponents of Dog/Sabertooth. We're not just shooting in the dark here, as I posted above, there are many points that link Dog and Sabertooth together.

From Wiki:

The writer, Paul Jenkins, stated in interviews that he personally had not intended Dog to be Sabretooth.[10]

The actual quote:
"Who knows? In my mind, Dog is not intended to be Sabretooth, but he could be. It doesn’t matter. As long as the next writer respects the character and writes a simple story, anything could happen."

Thank you for posting that, because that quote right there proves my point.