Superman Returns Is Superman's Boy Scout Image The Reason Beyond Lackluster Ticket Sales?

[D-Bone]

Agree with what a lot of you guys here have already said before me.
SR is actually visually stunning and contains some memorable moments. That doesn't change the fact though that it has some script problems and it also kind of cheated its audience. It uses a well known fictional character beloved by little kids to basically tell a dark adult romantic drama. Many shots and scenes in the film seem to spring from a gothic, Emily Bronte-ish, brooding romantic fable on the Scottish moors.
The problem is, this is Superman, not Wuthering Heights.

 

[max55]

Max......he did die. He just didn't stay dead.

Listen, that was danger there, all right. I mean, it's not an opinion....it's a fact. I mean, there's not much else short of an actual super fight, that can push this character to the edge of that danger zone.

Seriously though......that beating he took, you guys didn't think it was strong? I mean, I don't think any Superhero film has done it like that b4.....except Passion, of course.

I didnt think the beating the thugs gave him came anywhere close to the passion. The punisher,now he took a serious beating all through his film.

Yes there was danger, when i first saw the huge new krypton i thought he would have a real problem on his hand, but he made short work of throwing it into space. Didnt relise he died though. Thought if anything would kill him it would be the fall, but he hit the ground like a lump of steel. That and needles not being able to penetrate him i figured he only needed them to get rid of any kryptonite. I still dissagree with you chris... superman doesnt, shouldnt be a bad boy. He just needs tougher opposition.

 

[Eros]

i have a feeling no matter what superman returns was like, more modern, not a sequel etc. Im almost sure it would of had the same impact at the box office.

 

[Timstuff]

No.

The movie stunk. That's why it's failing.

Bingo!

Also, Superman was a jerk in the movie.

superjerk.ytmnd.com

 

[Bad Superman]

The reason it "bombed" at the boxoffice in the usa is that it didnt attract the big "christian" marked. I think they "brushed" the movie away because of all the gay "relations". The film is going to do very very well in europe and asia, wait and see!!!!

 

[Timstuff]

People have tried to use Christians as a scapegoat for failure since Nero.

 

[JTStarkiller]

I loved the movie, but I think the trailers are somewhat to blame. Only the first teaser seemed to capture the magic and depth of the movie. I was hesitant going into the movie, but was pleasantly surprised.

It can't be the good, boy scout image of Superman, because Spider-Man is as popular as ever. With a line like, "Your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man!", you know it's not the goodhearted nature of the main character holding it back.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I think the real problem of SR is that is too predictable and there`s no climax. WE ALL KNOW SUPERMAN IS GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD AND SOLVE EVERYTHING IN THE END. We all knew Superman was going to save Richard, Lois and Jason in the boat, so the scenes has zero impact. We all knew
Superman was going to save Metropolis so those scenes are just there for the cool factor. We all knew Superman wasn`t going to die. We all knew Jason was Superman`s son. The story simply doesn`t work. Superman in the movie is just the big boy scout who doesn`t fail, who saves everybody.

Singer negleted to show some intelligence. He took out the hero out of the Super in my opinion and foccused too much in the man. There are no great lessons about hope, the ideals of a hero. Its just a romantic story with a stupid villain plot and Superman IS WAY MORE than this. He negleted to show`s society relation to Superman. The theme "Must there be a Superman?" wasnt shown at all. In one scene maybe. Superman`s flight with Lois. But thats not enough.

Now lets take the example of WHY Donner changed the ending of Superman the movie. IN STM originally, if you guys don`t know, Lois wasnt supposed to die. In the end Superman saves everybody, saves lois, arrests Luthor and thats it. So, THERE IS NO REAL CONFLICT!!! There is no Climax.

Lesson number 1 of storytelling( I know this because i took a lot of classes about this). The story has to have a huge point of dramaticity near the end. Something that there is no way back. Everything is going to be wrong.

For example, take Usual suspects and the ending where we discover who is Keyser Soze. Or Forrest Gump when Jenny dies. Or Empire Strikes back when Luke discovers he is the son of DaRTH Vader. Or even Titanic when Jack Dawson saves Roses life and dies. Those are classic examples of great emotional dramas.

Now take Superman the movie. Lois Lane dies in the end. Theres no way back. LOIS IS DEAD!!! Who would ever predict that? Superman saved everybody but the person he most loved. Theres no way out of this? But Superman finds a way! HE IS SUPERMAN. He does the impossible!! He goes back in time(As many of you hate the ending but i don`t), disobeys his father`s words to not interfere, and does it because of Love. Superman becomes human in the end because he has the greatest human emotion. LOVE. He is the human alien.

SR doesn`t have any of this. Its too predictable. Thats why its not a classic.

 

[thechubbysaint]

The boyscout image can exist in this day and age, and would probably be a refreshing change of pace that would draw audiences in. The key is to not make it corny. (Fine line the film would have to walk, but possible.)

This movie could have succeeded without those elements, but the movie sucks for other reasons and without those boyscout elements, it isn't really superman.

 

[thechubbysaint]

I think the real problem of SR is that is too predictable and there`s no climax. WE ALL KNOW SUPERMAN IS GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD AND SOLVE EVERYTHING IN THE END. We all knew Superman was going to save Richard, Lois and Jason in the boat, so the scenes has zero impact. We all knew
Superman was going to save Metropolis so those scenes are just there for the cool factor. We all knew Superman wasn`t going to die. We all knew Jason was Superman`s son. The story simply doesn`t work. Superman in the movie is just the big boy scout who doesn`t fail, who saves everybody.

Singer negleted to show some intelligence. He took out the hero out of the Super in my opinion and foccused too much in the man. There are no great lessons about hope, the ideals of a hero. Its just a romantic story with a stupid villain plot and Superman IS WAY MORE than this. He negleted to show`s society relation to Superman. The theme "Must there be a Superman?" wasnt shown at all. In one scene maybe. Superman`s flight with Lois. But thats not enough.

Now lets take the example of WHY Donner changed the ending of Superman the movie. IN STM originally, if you guys don`t know, Lois wasnt supposed to die. In the end Superman saves everybody, saves lois, arrests Luthor and thats it. So, THERE IS NO REAL CONFLICT!!! There is no Climax.

Lesson number 1 of storytelling( I know this because i took a lot of classes about this). The story has to have a huge point of dramaticity near the end. Something that there is no way back. Everything is going to be wrong.

For example, take Usual suspects and the ending where we discover who is Keyser Soze. Or Forrest Gump when Jenny dies. Or Empire Strikes back when Luke discovers he is the son of DaRTH Vader. Or even Titanic when Jack Dawson saves Roses life and dies. Those are classic examples of great emotional dramas.

Now take Superman the movie. Lois Lane dies in the end. Theres no way back. LOIS IS DEAD!!! Who would ever predict that? Superman saved everybody but the person he most loved. Theres no way out of this? But Superman finds a way! HE IS SUPERMAN. He does the impossible!! He goes back in time(As many of you hate the ending but i don`t), disobeys his father`s words to not interfere, and does it because of Love. Superman becomes human in the end because he has the greatest human emotion. LOVE. He is the human alien.

SR doesn`t have any of this. Its too predictable. Thats why its not a classic.

Isn't that the case with every iconic movie (especially comic ones)? We know Bats, Punisher, Spidey, Indiana Jones, etc will win.

 

[SuperDaniel]

You misanderstood my point. Those movies have a climax. Superman Returns does not.

Spider-man 1 - Gives up of his relationship with MJ.

Spider-man 2 - MJ discovering who he is

Indiana Jones - His father being shot...

or even

Superman the movie - Lois Lane dies

Superman Returns does not have a climax or the climax is unefective and poorly written.

 

[treeringralph]

If you make Superman dark and brooding and a "bad ass" in some Vin Diesel kind of way, then he's not Superman. He's Neo, or Batman, or Nicolas Cage.

If you make Superman a whining, self-important teenager like the Tomwellingites out there, you've got a copy of a copy, meaning...you've got Spiderman or Dawson's Creek, or Birthright. Not Superman.

Continuing a beloved series that still resonates today is the logical path for SR to have taken. Singer pulled it off with much love to the source material, and to those who really love WHO SUPERMAN IS.

Also, SpiderDaniel:

Any movie that you read all the spoiler material that comes out before the movie hits will inevitably be predictable. In fact, it's not a prediction at that point. It's accumulated knowledge.

-trr

 

[thechubbysaint]

Gotcha

 

[SuperDaniel]

If you make Superman dark and brooding and a "bad ass" in some Vin Diesel kind of way, then he's not Superman. He's Neo, or Batman, or Nicolas Cage.

If you make Superman a whining, self-important teenager like the Tomwellingites out there, you've got a copy of a copy, meaning...you've got Spiderman or Dawson's Creek, or Birthright. Not Superman.

Continuing a beloved series that still resonates today is the logical path for SR to have taken. Singer pulled it off with much love to the source material, and to those who really love WHO SUPERMAN IS.

Also, SpiderDaniel:

Any movie that you read all the spoiler material that comes out before the movie hits will inevitably be predictable. In fact, it's not a prediction at that point. It's accumulated knowledge.

-trr

Well, I read the Batman Begins script before watching the movie and I thought the movie was great. It lacked the Tim Burton`s great dark design of Gotham with gargoyles, etc but the story was really compeling, amazing, the actors in it even better. If i had to balance story vs visuals, The movie worked.

I read the novelization for Spider-man 1 and i knew almost the entire movie before going to the theaters and i had a great experience. I laughed a lot, i cried when Uncle Ben died. The movie worked.

Sorry but i left the theater after watching SR so disappointed that i didn`t want to see it again on the theater. I was planning on watching 5 times but i just got a pirate copy and said to myself: I won`t pay again to watch this movie. Maybe because i am a much more fan of Superman and expected way more. I excpected this movie to work and it did not to me. It felt like it was Donner all over again and it didn`t have anything new except for Special Effects. Even the flying i thought it was not good. Except of course, the plane sequence. And thats a shame because Brandon Routh and all the actors were amazing but i just hate this Lex Luthor and his stupid gang.

 

[Octoberist]

I enjoyed nolan's take on Gotham City. It's large and a little futuristic. If Nolan tried to make it 'gothic' then people would accuse him of mimicking Burton.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I enjoyed it too. But i just thought the movie wasn`t dark enough.

 

[Octoberist]

It wasn't Frank Miller dark. But more like Jeoph Loeb dark, with a mix of Dennis O Neil.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I guess its personal opinion because i think Batman is a dark character. But Begins rules. The story is just AMAZING. I left the theater damn proud to be a Batman fan while the samething didn`t happen to Superman. Unfortunately. And i waited to see a Superman movie in the theaters for 23 years. Sorry but the only part of the movie that was THAT GOOD was the plane sequence.

 

[D-Bone]

I think the real problem of SR is that is too predictable and there`s no climax. WE ALL KNOW SUPERMAN IS GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD AND SOLVE EVERYTHING IN THE END. We all knew Superman was going to save Richard, Lois and Jason in the boat, so the scenes has zero impact. We all knew
Superman was going to save Metropolis so those scenes are just there for the cool factor. We all knew Superman wasn`t going to die. We all knew Jason was Superman`s son. The story simply doesn`t work. Superman in the movie is just the big boy scout who doesn`t fail, who saves everybody.

Singer negleted to show some intelligence. He took out the hero out of the Super in my opinion and foccused too much in the man. There are no great lessons about hope, the ideals of a hero. Its just a romantic story with a stupid villain plot and Superman IS WAY MORE than this. He negleted to show`s society relation to Superman. The theme "Must there be a Superman?" wasnt shown at all. In one scene maybe. Superman`s flight with Lois. But thats not enough.

Now lets take the example of WHY Donner changed the ending of Superman the movie. IN STM originally, if you guys don`t know, Lois wasnt supposed to die. In the end Superman saves everybody, saves lois, arrests Luthor and thats it. So, THERE IS NO REAL CONFLICT!!! There is no Climax.

Lesson number 1 of storytelling( I know this because i took a lot of classes about this). The story has to have a huge point of dramaticity near the end. Something that there is no way back. Everything is going to be wrong.

For example, take Usual suspects and the ending where we discover who is Keyser Soze. Or Forrest Gump when Jenny dies. Or Empire Strikes back when Luke discovers he is the son of DaRTH Vader. Or even Titanic when Jack Dawson saves Roses life and dies. Those are classic examples of great emotional dramas.

Now take Superman the movie. Lois Lane dies in the end. Theres no way back. LOIS IS DEAD!!! Who would ever predict that? Superman saved everybody but the person he most loved. Theres no way out of this? But Superman finds a way! HE IS SUPERMAN. He does the impossible!! He goes back in time(As many of you hate the ending but i don`t), disobeys his father`s words to not interfere, and does it because of Love. Superman becomes human in the end because he has the greatest human emotion. LOVE. He is the human alien.

SR doesn`t have any of this. Its too predictable. Thats why its not a classic.

You know what, SR actually did have a climax but it was badly handled. You know what it was? It's the one big sequence beginning from the scene in the hospital to Superman in Jason's room.
The climax in a story should be the answer and the resolution to the story's dramatic question. The story question is raised in Clark's conversation with Ma Kent in the beginning: he feels like an alien, out of place in the world, and feels alone and cut off from humanity.
The whole point of society's acceptance of Superman was the shot of the crowd gathering outside the hospital for a candlelight vigil and carrying signs showing support.
It then makes some half assed alusion to Christ by showing an empty hospital bed with a draped sheet (think, Christ's tomb) and ends with Superman and his monologue over his sleeping son with the Aquaman pajamas. In other words, he now has a connection to humanity. Lois asks him, where can we find you? He says, I'll be around. End of story. Resolution of the conflict. It was sort of 'meh'.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Honestly, from outsiders.....hasn't Superman ALWAYS been seen as a puss?

I mean, the bright colors, the smiling........most people don't think that's badass at all. I mean, about the character. Visually, atleast.

 

[Steelsheen]

most of the feedback i get from oursiders is that Superman is so/ too powerful.

not so much badass as more strongman.

 

[Red Mask]

Honestly, from outsiders.....hasn't Superman ALWAYS been seen as a puss?

I mean, the bright colors, the smiling........most people don't think that's badass at all. I mean, about the character. Visually, atleast.

That can't be helped. That costume is part of the tradition. Sure today it looks queer, but it's a trademark look. So the director must find a way to make him cool.

 

[Seth71]

Honestly, from outsiders.....hasn't Superman ALWAYS been seen as a puss?

I mean, the bright colors, the smiling........most people don't think that's badass at all. I mean, about the character. Visually, atleast.

And why exactly does everything need to be badass? Like Underworld or it's as dumb sequel? Lots of badass but no sense/brains or dignity? Superman doesn't need to be badass. He needs to be Superman and that's not who he is. The whole badass bandwagon only works for the dumb teen crowed(not all the teen crowed, just the dumb ones) The ones that think Underworld, Aeon Flux, Equilibrium, Mortal Kombat and the Matrix Trilogy is the best example of filmmaking.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

I'd say the well deserved bad word of mouth is what is killing ticket sales.

It's overlong, rambling, a bit incoherent, and Superman looks like a boy instead of a man.

Nothing is inherently wrong with Superman the character. People love him. They just want to see a good, fun, summer movie with heart, with the iconic Superman figure we have all grown to love. Superman Returns isn't very good, it's barely any fun, and it doesn't have much heart---just sap.

My opinion.

 

[The Game]

His boy scout image has nothing to do with the lackluster ticket sales, its all down to the moive and the moive was not a good one, end of story