The Dark Knight Is the Penguin really going to be in TDK

Two Face said:
So what you saying is, Nolan should not use the villains that appeared in old franchise? I'm little confused:huh:
DV8 said it well but, no, not at all - I don't think Nolan should put characters in for the sake of it. If he doesn't think they fit the storyline he and David Goyer worked out then there's no need for them to be there.

X-Men 3 is a pretty good example. I didn't mind the film but there were character shoved in who had maybe one scene. It was pointless and a waste.

Sorry if I wasn't being clear before.
 
DV8 said:
although it is a bit strange of Nolan to say the Penguin wouldn't fit into his 'real world' setting . . . he can be pulled off more realistically than most Batman characters . . . .I'm thinking he may be altogether unfamiliar w/ the Penguin outside of the film version . . . .

well yeah over man bat i would prefer penguin

but yeah there really doesn't seem to be any room for him with the joker taking this movie, and two-face taking the next, and if they did a 4 (which i would almost be against if these 3 are as good as the hype that is being built for them are) they would really have to be creative in making a good story line or i would doubt it would be anywhere near as good as these next two are

sidenot that i thought of while writting that.

what would be cool as a little nod to the fans, is have penguin and like riddle playing little mischevious roles in the next two movies, and getting up and comers to play them so if they are needed for a 4 maybe they are big names by then, and their character has been introduced so not a whole lot of time is needed wasting on the introduction

like Paddy Considine for Riddler, and Timothy Spall for Penguin, just two names i have been thinking of but also without giving any real thought to most other non name actors
 
Ian McShane for the Penguin!!!

In all honesty, I'm really hoping for a community of villains and then having them play major roles down the line. The "its your turn" is getting a little old.
 
^ yeah I don't know why you can't just have cameos from more villains. they don't even have to talk. even general audiences will know most of them and they'll get a kick out of it too. it would add some much needed colour to the films. I'm thinking characters like Cobblepot, Venqilotrist, Pamela Isley, Selina Kyle, Killer Croc.

Just my opinion please don't respond with the obvious risks here. I know, I'm aware, I still think it could be done with style.
 
Nolan has a huge misconception about the penguin, Hes just a arrogant,sophisticated, short,fat, and rich criminal who likes birds. Hes not a freakish mutation like he was in Returns.
 
Where has it been shown that Nolan believes the Penguin is any thing other than an arrogant, sophisticated, short, fat, rich, criminal with a bird fetish.
 
StorminNorman said:
Where has it been shown that Nolan believes the Penguin is any thing other than an arrogant, sophisticated, short, fat, rich, criminal with a bird fetish.

the comment he made about how he thought the penguin would not work in the "realistic tone" he was going for. he obvioulsy does not know the character that well, and probblay is more familiar with Batman returns version.
 
I think Penguin is the character that would work the most on a realistic tone. problem is it's a very poor character.
 
El Payaso said:
I think Penguin is the character that would work the most on a realistic tone. problem is it's a very poor character.

Yeah right he's poor. He wants dearly to be a respectable aristocrat like Bruce Wayne but he's a seedy profiteer at heart, the polar opposite of Bruce Wayne. Both Batman and Bruce mix in the same circles as Cobblepot (criminal vice and upper class society) and anything can happen in or around the Iceberg Lounge and his postion as an underworld middle man. He's a character for any occasion.

There's also tension in how far Batman will tolerate his operations, against his value as an information source, and he's a foil to other villains because he's not actually insane and has no grand plan for domination or destruction. He also reflects Batmans control issues; always needing an umbrella and hot women around him (and that's a massive plus in itself) as a means to counter his paranioa and create a desired image. People call him The Penguin, the sleazy fiend but he wants to be Oswald Cobblepot the gentleman of esteem. And he can be a formidable threat to Batman if he wants.

What in particular do you think he lacks as a character?
 
Nepenthes said:
Yeah right he's poor. He wants dearly to be a respectable aristocrat like Bruce Wayne but he's a seedy profiteer at heart, the polar opposite of Bruce Wayne. Both Batman and Bruce mix in the same circles as Cobblepot (criminal vice and upper class society) and anything can happen in or around the Iceberg Lounge and his postion as an underworld middle man. He's a character for any occasion.

There's also tension in how far Batman will tolerate his operations, against his value as an information source, and he's a foil to other villains because he's not actually insane and has no grand plan for domination or destruction. He also reflects Batmans control issues; always needing an umbrella and hot women around him (and that's a massive plus in itself) as a means to counter his paranioa and create a desired image. People call him The Penguin, the sleazy fiend but he wants to be Oswald Cobblepot the gentleman of esteem. And he can be a formidable threat to Batman if he wants.

What in particular do you think he lacks as a character?

He just needs 4 weeks with a teen crisis psychologist.
 
Nepenthes said:
Yeah right he's poor. He wants dearly to be a respectable aristocrat like Bruce Wayne but he's a seedy profiteer at heart, the polar opposite of Bruce Wayne. Both Batman and Bruce mix in the same circles as Cobblepot (criminal vice and upper class society) and anything can happen in or around the Iceberg Lounge and his postion as an underworld middle man. He's a character for any occasion.

There's also tension in how far Batman will tolerate his operations, against his value as an information source, and he's a foil to other villains because he's not actually insane and has no grand plan for domination or destruction. He also reflects Batmans control issues; always needing an umbrella and hot women around him (and that's a massive plus in itself) as a means to counter his paranioa and create a desired image. People call him The Penguin, the sleazy fiend but he wants to be Oswald Cobblepot the gentleman of esteem. And he can be a formidable threat to Batman if he wants.

What in particular do you think he lacks as a character?

Right on brother!

In "Batman Returns" you kind of see how Devito's Penguin just wanted to be referred to by his birth name, instead of his adopted villain name the people of Gotham gave to him. However, Burton didn't totally focus on that much, he just wanted to wish he could've known his parents or understand their refusal to not love him, and wanted a sense of belonging. Max Shreck gave him that belonging, but it was a false belonging, and the media and the people took him into their hearts, and it all became too surreal and a fantasy to Penguin, till they dropped him on his butt when Batman got onto their scheme.

This new Penguin should be like you said arrogant, sophisticated, has a fetish for birds, is respectable businessman but not up to par with Bruce Wayne which he despise. And like I've been saying he can still have his trademark top hat, monacle, and bird-like nose, but lose the waddling, webbed hands and feet, and him eating freshly caught fish out a pail.

As for domination, in this movie he should just be an armsdealer. In movie "3" his obsession with bringing down Bruce Wayne should grow bigger. He could work with Mr. Earle and Roman Sionis, rising up the corporate ladder, while Joker and Two-Face are on the loose.

Batman will become so obsessed with bringing down Joker and Two-Face that he'll forget his duties as Wayne and before he knows it Wayne Enterprises and Wayne Corp would become bankrupt and a colossal takeover would happen with--- Oswald Cobblepot moving in and Mr. Earle and Roman getting jobs.

From there Bruce would lose millions, lose his father's company, and have to restart and rebuild from scratch.
 
Miranda Fox said:
DV8 said it well but, no, not at all - I don't think Nolan should put characters in for the sake of it. If he doesn't think they fit the storyline he and David Goyer worked out then there's no need for them to be there.

X-Men 3 is a pretty good example. I didn't mind the film but there were character shoved in who had maybe one scene. It was pointless and a waste.

Sorry if I wasn't being clear before.

No it's ok, I couldn't understand before now I do.:yay:
 
Two Face said:
No it's ok, I couldn't understand before now I do.:yay:
;)

Back on topic - what Nolan actually says doesn't negate the idea of cameo. But it does the him being a major player - maybe that's what he thought the rumours were about.

On cameos in general - I wouldn't mind one or two. Just not loads. And it should serve some sort of purpose to the storyline - like say Bruce consulting an expert on toxins called Dr. Isley for instance...
 
Nepenthes said:
Yeah right he's poor. He wants dearly to be a respectable aristocrat like Bruce Wayne but he's a seedy profiteer at heart, the polar opposite of Bruce Wayne. Both Batman and Bruce mix in the same circles as Cobblepot (criminal vice and upper class society) and anything can happen in or around the Iceberg Lounge and his postion as an underworld middle man. He's a character for any occasion.

There's also tension in how far Batman will tolerate his operations, against his value as an information source, and he's a foil to other villains because he's not actually insane and has no grand plan for domination or destruction. He also reflects Batmans control issues; always needing an umbrella and hot women around him (and that's a massive plus in itself) as a means to counter his paranioa and create a desired image. People call him The Penguin, the sleazy fiend but he wants to be Oswald Cobblepot the gentleman of esteem. And he can be a formidable threat to Batman if he wants.

What in particular do you think he lacks as a character?

Excellent.

He also wants desperately to be a cool super-person, but he can't really cut it. There's a lot you can do with the Penguin that hasn't been done on screen yet.
 
El Payaso said:
He just needs 4 weeks with a teen crisis psychologist.

penguin2.gif
VS
psychologist.gif


Penguin wins :woot:
 
I finally saw Mission Impossible 3 lastnight and Hoffman was a great bad guy.

If there is a Penguin it has too be Hoffman.
 
Dark Knight said:
I hope he is in the film....in more of smaller supporting role like how Crane was used in BB. Nolan can make it work in his more "grounded in reality" Bat world.....it would be great to see him as British arms dealer type with ties to the criminal underworld. The role screams Bob Hoskins all the way!
I agree. If they could make the penguin a ruthless arms dealer, sort of like Bob Hoskins character in Unleashed, I would totally buy it.
 
If Penguin is to be in TDK, I would like to see Timothy Spall as a Pengiun akin to the B:TAS Penguin. He would somewhat resemble Burton's superb design, but not spewing the fish oil or whatever it was. He could have the look of the TAS one, but be kind of an anti-Bruce Wayne, if Black Mask doesn't take that role.
 
I'm a big Timothy Spall for Pengiun pimp, I think he would be a nice choice
 
Timothy Spall would nicely encapsulate my Penguin-as-wannabe-super-villain-with extra-cool-powers-insecure-crime-lord vision. Hoffman could also pull that off. Bob Hoskins, not so much. Thing about Hoffman is that he's the only one I can see pulling of Penguin no matter what direction they go with the character. He's just that awesome.
 
^ Agreed with Hoffman.

I thought his character in MI3 could be a realistic interpretation of the Penguin in Nolan's Batworld.
 

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