James Bond In Skyfall - - Part 11

[Compi716]

If you change the backstory it would change the character and Bond is made of his particular character. Itd be like going back in time and changing something significant about your past. It would change you significantly making you a different person today. Bond has to stay Bond and what makes him Bond shouldnt be changed.

Exactly. The character is who he is and, sadly, race plays an important part in that.

If Elba wants to play Bond so badly he should try and star in a similar sort of movie, kind of like how Jason Statham as The Transporter created his own little franchise.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Elba can play a villain. We haven't had a Black villain since....Mayday?

 

[regwec]

I am certainly not a purist on these issues- which frequently come about- but the fact is that, by now, Bond is Bond. We know who he is. To merely characterise him as a suave guy who gets the girls and shoots people is missing the point. He's not quite that generic. If anything, he is a walking relic of the British Empire. That requires certain traits.

 

[Ajendo]

Well regarding Bond's heritage, SF

Spoiler

has Bond go back to Scotland and there's some emphasis how he grew up there abd they show the headstone's of Andrew Bond and Monique Delacroix Bond. Hard to picture such a background for a black guy

but make of that what you will.

 

[DKDetective]

I am certainly not a purist on these issues- which frequently come about- but the fact is that, by now, Bond is Bond. We know who he is. To merely characterise him as a suave guy who gets the girls and shoots people is missing the point. He's not quite that generic. If anything, he is a walking relic of the British Empire. That requires certain traits.

Precisely. I'm fine with a black Leiter or

Spoiler

Moneypenny as is the case in Skyfall

because race has little bearing on who those characters are. However, I'd go back further. Bond was CREATED as a walking relic of the British Empire. He was born of Britain's post-WW2 identity crisis. By the time that Fleming wrote Casino Royale in 1953, the sun had set on the British Empire. India was long gone and the Suez Crisis in 1956 just rubbed salt in the wound.

Bond's character and his prowess in the Cold War intelligence game was a throwback to a grander time. In From Russia With Love, when the leaders of the Soviet intelligence community are trying to appraise which western nation represents the largest threat to them, they conclude it is the British because their Secret Service is made up of English gentlemen molded by the public school tradition. They are adventurous men of leisure who cannot be bought. The Soviets conclude that the Americans, for all their money and resources, are inferior to the British because they do not have the same "elan". They are not as cunning nor brave.

 

[The Englishman]

No, it's not impossible, but let's be honest here. It would have been rare in the 1970s (when a current Bond would have been born). I'm not talking about upper-class as in rich, I mean upper class as in nobility, gentry. I called it an "old family" for a reason. Families with coats of arms like Bond's family has. Let's face it, those families tended to be relatively racist. You think the British royal family would have let Charles marry a minority? But yeah, just because a character is fictional, let's throw out all logic.

My family name has a coat of Arms and we are has working class as they come...

 

[The Englishman]

Elba can play a villain. We haven't had a Black villain since....Mayday?

Elba can play 008, who Bond teams up with to take down the villain in Bond 24.....t:

 

[Marvolo]

My family name has a coat of Arms and we are has working class as they come...

Many families have coat of arms. It goes beyond just having a coat of arms. James pedigree comes from an old money white family with specific traits that tend be exclusive to said types families. If you change james backstory and past it would change who james is. You cant just pull james out and make him black or just any ethnicity. James is very much a white british guy with sensibilities that you only get from his specific upbringing and heritage.

 

[Doc Ock]

Elba can play 008, who Bond teams up with to take down the villain in Bond 24.....t:

That would be pretty suhweet!

 

[Bruce Malone]

My vote is for elba for hypothetical next bond but realistically for any predictions it seems like eon likes to cast actors who aren't already associated with other properties. They prefer the actor they choose becomes very associated with bond and only bond.

Realistically whoever they pick for next bond down the road, he is probably someone we might have only vaguely heard about at the the moment. So no Hardy, Fassbender or Elba. Bond is like Batman or other superheroes to an extent, there is a great risk for an actor of being typecast so already established names also tend to shy away.

 

[The Englishman]

Does anyone really believe that a black actor will get to play Bond. Remember all the fuss over Daniel Craig's blonde hair.....

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

Does anyone really believe that a black actor will get to play Bond. Remember all the fuss over Daniel Craig's blonde hair.....

It's probably as ridiculous as people that wanted glover for spider-man

 

[Bruce Malone]

I don't think it's ridiculous and i think it will happen down the road. Likely when people stop developing attitudes where race still plays any factor towards an actor.

Regardless of the books bond's actual background is never mentioned in the films. He is a british agent is all we know about him and there are plenty of blacks, asians and whites in britain.

 

[The Englishman]

I don't think it's ridiculous and i think it will happen down the road. Likely when people stop developing attitudes where race still plays any factor towards an actor.

Regardless of the books bond's actual background is never mentioned in the films. He is a british agent is all we know about him and there are plenty of blacks, asians and whites in britain.

You mean apart from the fact that he's been played by white actors for 50 years. Could you imagine the outrage if Superman or Captain America were played by black actors.

 

[Octoberist]

lets move away from this topic.

honestly anytime the topic of race gets involved, the discussion goes from compelling to dead horse beating, then tension filled. It happens all the time.

 

[redhawk23]

I don't think it's ridiculous and i think it will happen down the road. Likely when people stop developing attitudes where race still plays any factor towards an actor.

Regardless of the books bond's actual background is never mentioned in the films. He is a british agent is all we know about him and there are plenty of blacks, asians and whites in britain.

It isn't prejudice against an actor to say that you don't want to see a character thats been played by a white man for half a century and has specific character traits with roots in his ethnicity to be played by a black actor. Its not a judgement on the actor's abilities. Would you want to see a white Kunta Kinte?

Race as a factor in casting for certain specific established characters isn't really a problem. The problem is that compelling characters for non-whites are rarely written.

 

[Jheri Curl]

Elba will be too old if Craig was indeed contracted for 5 or however many more films. But he is indeed a much better actor than Daniel Craig, with a less weather-beaten face.

 

[DKDetective]

I don't think it's ridiculous and i think it will happen down the road. Likely when people stop developing attitudes where race still plays any factor towards an actor.

Regardless of the books bond's actual background is never mentioned in the films. He is a british agent is all we know about him and there are plenty of blacks, asians and whites in britain.

You are so wrong. His background is mentioned in both OHMSS and TWINE. As well, you will be eating your words in a matter of weeks.

 

[Bruce Malone]

You mean apart from the fact that he's been played by white actors for 50 years. Could you imagine the outrage if Superman or Captain America were played by black actors.

Imagine the outrage 50 years ago of any lead hero role played by a black actor? Times change.

Excuse me for thinking ahead to a time when race will play as big a role as a persons hair color. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow but it will happen eventually, not because there needs to be a black or non-white bond but because that shouldn't be a disqualification for an actor not to get the role.

Do you know how many non-white actors have been cast in shakespeare productions playing characters who were originally depicted as white, characters with literally 10 times the history of bond?

 

[Marvolo]

Imagine the outrage 50 years ago of any lead hero role played by a black actor? Times change.

Excuse me for thinking ahead to a time when race will play as big a role as a persons hair color. I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow but it will happen eventually, not because there needs to be a black or non-white bond but because that shouldn't be a disqualification for an actor not to get the role.

Do you know how many non-white actors have been cast in shakespeare productions playing characters who were originally depicted as white, characters with literally 10 times the history of bond?

You seem to be missing what people keep saying. It isnt that we think the black man is inferior to the white man. Its because James Bonds history and upbringing is very very white and british. Thats just how it is. The only way to make james another ethnicity would be to change his upbringing which would change who James is. James upbringing effects him and who he is just as much as anyone's upbringing does.

Trust me, id love to see Idris Elba to have a character with the weight of Bond. But Bond isnt a black guy. Bond has a backstory. And that backstory only really accomodates a white brit. Thats the character.

 

[Bruce Malone]

You seem to be missing what people keep saying. It isnt that we think the black man is inferior to the white man. Its because James Bonds history and upbringing is very very white and british. Thats just how it is. The only way to make james another ethnicity would be to change his upbringing which would change who James is. James upbringing effects him and who he is just as much as anyone's upbringing does.

This is going to be my last point on this but what about james bond on film has to do with his whiteness? Is he fighting for white causes? No, he fights for Britain.

Take the reboot for example ok because times have changed too much to compare modern standards to the bond from 50 years ago. I don't see anything about the character that reverberates being brought up white.

James Bond on film is a character always brought into the modern world, he's not the bond born in the 1920's and fought in ww2. I fail how to see a 21st century bond still has being "raised white" as an important character trait to his personality. There isn't one and that is a very biased view to assume someone "brought up white" will turn out differently than someone not.

Frankly bringing it back, flemming ret-conned his own character due to the actor chosen to play him. He made bond half-scot after connery who is scottish. Had bond been brought to film 50 years later and a black actor been cast i could see him ret-coning his character to make bond half-black.

I get it though, people still haven't gotten to the point where they can see past race. It's actually easier to live your life when you can though, just a tip of advice.

 

[Hunter Rider]

James Bond is white, it's no more complicated than that. Shouldn't the aim be to create an iconic, original black spy hero instead?

 

[Marvolo]

This is going to be my last point on this but what about james bond on film has to do with his whiteness? Is he fighting for white causes? No, he fights for Britain.

Take the reboot for example ok because times have changed too much to compare modern standards to the bond from 50 years ago. I don't see anything about the character that reverberates being brought up white.

James Bond on film is a character always brought into the modern world, he's not the bond born in the 1920's and fought in ww2. I fail how to see a 21st century bond still has being "raised white" as an important character trait to his personality. There isn't one and that is a very biased view to assume someone "brought up white" will turn out differently than someone not.

Frankly bringing it back, flemming ret-conned his own character due to the actor chosen to play him. He made bond half-scot after connery who is scottish. Had bond been brought to film 50 years later and a black actor been cast i could see him ret-coning his character to make bond half-black.

I get it though, people still haven't gotten to the point where they can see past race. It's actually easier to live your life when you can though, just a tip of advice.

You are the one making this into something it isnt. This isnt about keeping the black man down as you seem to think. James is white. His culture, ways, and sensibilities come from who he is, his family, his heritage, and his life.

People ***** all the time about hollywood changing the ethnicity of a character when it doesnt matter but when it does matter as it matters here they scream for it to be changed. WTF people.

I don't care what the ethnicity is but it has to make sense with the character.

 

[redhawk23]

This is going to be my last point on this but what about james bond on film has to do with his whiteness? Is he fighting for white causes? No, he fights for Britain.

Take the reboot for example ok because times have changed too much to compare modern standards to the bond from 50 years ago. I don't see anything about the character that reverberates being brought up white.

James Bond on film is a character always brought into the modern world, he's not the bond born in the 1920's and fought in ww2. I fail how to see a 21st century bond still has being "raised white" as an important character trait to his personality. There isn't one and that is a very biased view to assume someone "brought up white" will turn out differently than someone not.

Frankly bringing it back, flemming ret-conned his own character due to the actor chosen to play him. He made bond half-scot after connery who is scottish. Had bond been brought to film 50 years later and a black actor been cast i could see him ret-coning his character to make bond half-black.

I get it though, people still haven't gotten to the point where they can see past race. It's actually easier to live your life when you can though, just a tip of advice.

Do you have any idea how needlessly patronizing you are?

You mentioned that people of all races have played Shakespeare characters. Men of course also played the women's parts and since women have played mens roles.
Films are not the stage though. Many elements of stage portrayals are abstracted. You can perform plays without costumes, without sets. Even when you cast a black actor as a white character, they are still portraying a white character.
Film is largely not that way.

Also its not so much a matter of race but of ethnicity which is a different form of identifier actually based on one's heritage and history as opposed race which is largely imposed by others.

The problem you're describing doesn't really apply when casting already established characters, especially characters that have already been established on film and as iconic parts of pop culture.

The problem you seem to be describing is a problem with new films, not established franchises. Why is there a lack of new non-white characters being written? Why is whiteness assumed in casting when the race is never mentioned in the screenplay for things like romantic comedies and the like?

 

[redhawk23]

And by the way you're right, Fleming did write in a bit of Scottish into Bond's background after seeing Connery's performance, because the Connery films so firmly established that aspect at a time when the character was still being developed.