The Rise of Skywalker JJ & The Last Jedi

[Adhesive Boy]

But...but its not a female baby yoda so its okay.
Because god forbid that those damn women are natural gifted or capable of using the force...whats next? Do they want to wear pants? What has the Star Wars galaxy become. XD

Seriously, nobody gave a **** that a baby can use the force like this but were losing it over everything Rey did...even breathing.
Star wars "fans" are weird.

That sounds straw man-y as the argument looks awfully close to saying that the criticisms towards Rey would only have to do with her being a woman, which is absurd.

Baby Yoda has had plenty of people wondering how he can do those things, that certainly exists, but the mitigating factors is that he's from a mystical species that seems to have a very special connection to the force and he's just a side character without any other capabilities at all. There's also another important aspect, which is that the being is 50 years old and may have been working on developing these things for decades.

Rey is better compared to Anakin Skywalker. He's a guy that certainly was allowed to be overpowered, but there we do have the explanation that he was created by the force itself as part of a prophecy, and while he certainly is one of the main characters he can still be powerful because he has plenty of other flaws and, more importantly, we all know when the story begins that he is set up to fall and his power makes it all the greater.

Rey's issue is that he actually makes Anakin seem untalented with the Force. She instantly learns force powers on her own and after just learning about the force she can defeat a mighty dark sider in a direct contest of the force. After one year of training she is more powerful than Anakin ever was, despite that Anakin de facto had a stronger connection to the force than Palpatine and Yoda.

On top of that she's a great mechanic (makes decent sense), she's a master combat pilot despite living her life as a poor scavenger and is the best pilot in the Resistance (there's even a complaint about having Poe as a pilot when they could have had Rey), she's a master gunner that can shoot three TIE-fighters with one shot, she's apparently a great sailor despite hardly having seen water in her life, etc. Rey also never really faces any significant setbacks. Even Anakin was soundly defeated by an experienced dark sider, but Rey just steam rolls on, hardly even taking any damage in the entire trilogy.

But no, it can only be about that she's a woman...

 

[Sithborg]

Why are people so obsessed with that idiotic prophecy?

 

[TheVileOne]

Why are people so obsessed with that idiotic prophecy?

They made it a major part of the prequels and then Pablo Hidalgo said it was fulfilled by Anakin Skywalker when he killed Palpatine.

 

[henzINNIT]

Baby Yoda has had plenty of people wondering how he can do those things, that certainly exists, but the mitigating factors is that he's from a mystical species that seems to have a very special connection to the force and he's just a side character without any other capabilities at all. There's also another important aspect, which is that the being is 50 years old and may have been working on developing these things for decades.

How much Jedi training is something with the mind of a child going to do?

Rey is better compared to Anakin Skywalker. He's a guy that certainly was allowed to be overpowered, but there we do have the explanation that he was created by the force itself as part of a prophecy, and while he certainly is one of the main characters he can still be powerful because he has plenty of other flaws and, more importantly, we all know when the story begins that he is set up to fall and his power makes it all the greater.

Rey's issue is that he actually makes Anakin seem untalented with the Force. She instantly learns force powers on her own and after just learning about the force she can defeat a mighty dark sider in a direct contest of the force. After one year of training she is more powerful than Anakin ever was, despite that Anakin de facto had a stronger connection to the force than Palpatine and Yoda.

On top of that she's a great mechanic (makes decent sense), she's a master combat pilot despite living her life as a poor scavenger and is the best pilot in the Resistance (there's even a complaint about having Poe as a pilot when they could have had Rey), she's a master gunner that can shoot three TIE-fighters with one shot, she's apparently a great sailor despite hardly having seen water in her life, etc. Rey also never really faces any significant setbacks. Even Anakin was soundly defeated by an experienced dark sider, but Rey just steam rolls on, hardly even taking any damage in the entire trilogy.

But no, it can only be about that she's a woman...

I wouldn't accuse this of being sexist. A little pedantic maybe? I don't get the power levels thing in all honesty. A lot of this comes with the territory of new films upping the ante. Rey gets bigger set-pieces than Anakin because we've already seen the Anakin stuff. Rey picking up Jedi-tricks is condensed because we've seen these beats before. It's part of the suspension of disbelief in my view. A contrivance I'll allow for a story to take place.

I think Rey's abilities are being over-stated a little. She's good with ships because she's a scavenger who works for a space-ship trader. We see that Rey is in a hostile environment and has experience defending herself. She's also force sensitive, which has been established to make you a great pilot.

 

[Spider-Fan]

As I've said in the past, I don't think this movie is some type of insult to Rian Johnson from JJ Abrams. I think JJ just took the story in the direction that he wanted. Yes, it is a direction that was definitely geared towards getting fans back on the wagon and pandering to people, but I don't think this movie really goes out of its way to retcon the previous one or contradict plot points. Like Chris Terrio points out above, even that lightsaber moment was consistent with The Last Jedi. I can still watch that movie and appreciate it as a stand-alone piece of art even knowing where the story went in the next movie. I don't think it's a whiplash effect like some people are trying to make it out to be. It's just JJ Abrams making a JJ Abrams movie, and in this case JJ Abrams making a movie that just didn't work for me.

 

[Fincher]

After The Force Awakens, I just figured Rey was the Chosen One. The Sith continued into the sequel trilogy, she was the most powerful Jedi yet, so it was her who brings balance to The Force. I'm not concerned about what Pablo Hidalgo or anyone else says outside of the movies.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

How much Jedi training is something with the mind of a child going to do?



I wouldn't accuse this of being sexist. A little pedantic maybe? I don't get the power levels thing in all honesty. A lot of this comes with the territory of new films upping the ante. Rey gets bigger set-pieces than Anakin because we've already seen the Anakin stuff. Rey picking up Jedi-tricks is condensed because we've seen these beats before. It's part of the suspension of disbelief in my view. A contrivance I'll allow for a story to take place.

I think Rey's abilities are being over-stated a little. She's good with ships because she's a scavenger who works for a space-ship trader. We see that Rey is in a hostile environment and has experience defending herself. She's also force sensitive, which has been established to make you a great pilot.

He's not going to have had Jedi training, but he will likely have developed Force abilities during his relatively long life in lieu of other development that most other species get through quickly.


Rey isn't just upping the ante a little bit. When comparing her to Anakin, who was created by the Force itself and is explicitly stated to be the most gifted Force user of a high Force era (probably meant to be the most gifted ever), we see that Rey just blows by his lifetime achievements in no time. Anakin couldn't rip ships out of the sky or just blow them up. That's approaching Starkiller nonsense, and I really hoped to never see that kind of **** in the movies. Anakin's power was also balanced by the fact that we all know he would ultimately fall and become a villain.

I don't buy the reasoning for her just picking up Force powers on her own because it's just bad writing to contradict the rules of the setting without explanation, as well as to have a character that doesn't actually earn things as that makes it harder to get attached to a character that doesn't struggle and grow.

I'd rather say that you're understating her abilities a lot. That she's good with mechanics is fine. Even though her job is to tear things apart and hasn't built much it's still a fairly logical stretch in a movie. It doesn't just stop there though. She's the best pilot in the Resistance (TROS even has people complain that they have Poe as pilot and not Rey, which goes to maximum levels of absurdity), she is arguably the best gunner we've seen as she can shoot down three TIE fighters with one single shot the first time she tries gunnery. We've already gone through that she's the most gifted Force user ever. Her life defending herself against small-time thugs apparently also made her capable of defeating several of the most elite warriors in the galaxy in hand to hand combat. The character that grew up in poverty on a desert planet is apparently also a great sailor that can do things that the sailors of that particular planet won't even try.

So to actually tie it into the gender aspect, I think they were so desperate to make a strong female character that they went overboard and lost sight of what actually makes a good character. There have been many awesome, strong and badass female characters in movies but none of them were written like Rey. I think it's the difference between trying to make a strong female character that has to stand out among popular male characters, and to just try to write a good character that just happens to be female. The latter is how you do it. Women aren't any worse than men so they don't need special treatment in writing.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

As I've said in the past, I don't think this movie is some type of insult to Rian Johnson from JJ Abrams. I think JJ just took the story in the direction that he wanted. Yes, it is a direction that was definitely geared towards getting fans back on the wagon and pandering to people, but I don't think this movie really goes out of its way to retcon the previous one or contradict plot points. Like Chris Terrio points out above, even that lightsaber moment was consistent with The Last Jedi. I can still watch that movie and appreciate it as a stand-alone piece of art even knowing where the story went in the next movie. I don't think it's a whiplash effect like some people are trying to make it out to be. It's just JJ Abrams making a JJ Abrams movie, and in this case JJ Abrams making a movie that just didn't work for me.

I had similar issues with RoS that I had with Star Trek Into Darkness and there wasn't a director change there.

 

[fan4stic]

But...but its not a female baby yoda so its okay.
Because god forbid that those damn women are natural gifted or capable of using the force...whats next? Do they want to wear pants? What has the Star Wars galaxy become. XD

Seriously, nobody gave a **** that a baby can use the force like this but were losing it over everything Rey did...even breathing.
Star wars "fans" are weird.

How much Jedi training is something with the mind of a child going to do?

I wouldn't accuse this of being sexist. A little pedantic maybe? I don't get the power levels thing in all honesty. A lot of this comes with the territory of new films upping the ante. Rey gets bigger set-pieces than Anakin because we've already seen the Anakin stuff. Rey picking up Jedi-tricks is condensed because we've seen these beats before. It's part of the suspension of disbelief in my view. A contrivance I'll allow for a story to take place.

A child mind is, I think has been said, is 50 years of child mind. There's also the mysterious element of it. And it being essentially a baby.

 

[writer0327]

So to actually tie it into the gender aspect, I think they were so desperate to make a strong female character that they went overboard and lost sight of what actually makes a good character. There have been many awesome, strong and badass female characters in movies but none of them were written like Rey. I think it's the difference between trying to make a strong female character that has to stand out among popular male characters, and to just try to write a good character that just happens to be female. The latter is how you do it. Women aren't any worse than men so they don't need special treatment in writing.

I agree with this assessment. Rey is a little over the top as a character when it comes to power, ability, and learning curve, and it certainly feels like there was an agenda to make her that way. A much better character would have been one with flaws where things don't come to her easily. I'm also disappointed that she didn't get an arm or hand lopped off like the other two leads in the previous trilogies, but we know that wouldn't have played well to the masses.

With all that being said, I don't really have a big problem with her being overpowered. One of my favorite characters in fiction is Superman, and he is as OP as they come. The problem is doing something interesting with that character, and its all in the story. If you take an OP character and give them a problem their power cannot solve, now it becomes interesting. I think Rian Johnson was on to something in that he played with Rey's character weakness of craving affirmation from everyone, being needy, not being settled, and possibly being irrelevant because she's not from a special family. With all of her Jedi strength and power, to see her struggle and fail because she has no family, friends, a sense of belonging, etc, and then have Kylo use that as a lure to darkness would have been a fascinating character to develop over the course of 3 films.

 

[Herolee10]

 

[Iceman]

After looking at mandalorian....i think the only director that can make a decent original SW movie loved by fans and critics is Jon Favreau.

If Lucasfilm and Disney were smart, they will just give him the keys and all the creative control to make the next set of movies after a gap of few years.

If he had full control I think we’d see good things. He has been proving himself more and more over the years.

 

[henzINNIT]

Didn't Favreau drop his own soulless Disney movie entertainment product in 2019 as well though?

 

[BatLobster]

Didn't Favreau drop his own soulless Disney movie entertainment product in 2019 as well though?

Sure did, lol