JLA vs. The X-men

[LexCorp]

I wish I could say x-men, but honestly, probably JLA

Cool, I agree.

 

[BrianWilly]

As I mentioned before regardless of all the crap just take both teams at their most powerfull and see who wins.

Tough call. I'm tempted to say the X-Men would win since White Phoenix once held all of creation in her hands and could probably snuff it out if she wanted to, but there's really no telling what the combined power of Superman Prime and Ion could do. When you're dealing with two groups of people whose full, unchecked, uncompromised power would end existence as we know it, at some point you're going to have to call it a draw. You can't go any higher in power than ending the whole universe.

 

[LexCorp]

Tough call. I'm tempted to say the X-Men would win since White Phoenix once held all of creation in her hands and could probably snuff it out if she wanted to, but there's really no telling what the combined power of Superman Prime and Ion could do. When you're dealing with two groups of people whose full, unchecked, uncompromised power would end existence as we know it, at some point you're going to have to call it a draw. You can't go any higher in power than ending the whole universe.

Does anyone hold the power to create a universe?

 

[deathshead2]

Does anyone hold the power to create a universe?

Yeah thanos with the heart but he isn't a x-men.So know one else can create a unierse.

 

[BrianWilly]

The Phoenix could. It was the original energy that birthed both the Big Bang and Galactus.

And Hal Jordan was going to create a whole new universe from the energies he gathered as Parallax, so he could probably do it, too.

 

[LexCorp]

So yes a draw then. As the fight would end all things and no one can rebuild, it can be nothing but a draw.

 

[deathshead2]

The Phoenix could. It was the original energy that birthed both the Big Bang and Galactus.

And Hal Jordan was going to create a whole new universe from the energies he gathered as Parallax, so he could probably do it, too.

I thought Galactus was made by the enternals?

 

[LexCorp]

Well it looks like some research is needed here.

 

[BrianWilly]

I don't think so. The Eternals don't predate this universe, like Galactus. You're probably thinking of Eternity.

Galactus made a deal with Eternity, the personification of the universe, to survive past the Big Crunch (end of the old universe), and was reborn along with Eternity in the new, current universe.

The force that [re]created them was the Big Bang, the creation force, which has been hinted to be the Phoenix Force itself by several people, including Reed Richards.

 

[Whirlysplat]

The Phoenix could. It was the original energy that birthed both the Big Bang and Galactus.

Not exactly according to the handbook to have an avatar requires using up energy from future generations. The Phoenix force can - Phoenix as an Avatar the jury is still out on it's one of the continiuity flaws at Marvel at the moment.

 

[LexCorp]

Does this fight really hinge on the Phoenix factor. Is there nothing else that is important?

 

[Whirlysplat]

Does this fight really hinge on the Phoenix factor. Is there nothing else that is important?

Yup! The JLA own the others except maybe full potential Iceman. Trust me he's also a beast. He exists on the astral plane.

 

[LexCorp]

That is crazy. Shame really as it makes the questions so one sided and kinda pointless.

 

[BrianWilly]

I generally don't trust the handbooks as the final say, at least not over the words of the writers themselves. Besides, that bit about the Phoenix needing energy from future generations only applies to when the Phoenix Force itself wants to be conscious...like I said, the Phoenix Force is just a force and not a person at all; being conscious isn't its natural state, and it requires energy in order to be conscious. Regardless, that stipend has no bearing at all to the Phoenix avatar of Jean Grey and what she does while accessing the Force.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

As I mentioned before regardless of all the crap just take both teams at their most powerfull and see who wins.

So, the JLA have:

Superman 1 Million
Starman 1 Million
Solaris the Tyrant Sun
Batman 1 Million
The Flash (Wally West)
The Martian Manhunter
The Spectre (or the Phantom Stranger, or failing that let's toss in Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) as Ion)

Yep, pretty sure that no X-Men lineup can take that on. Not only does the JLA have its very own sun (he was a member of the JLA at one point according to JLA 1 Million). Superman can hold a star together with his mind and at his weakest can punch through time. Batman can be in two places at the same time and has technology capable of stealing souls. Starman can snuff out a sun with his Gravity Rod.

 

[LexCorp]

I generally don't trust the handbooks as the final say, at least not over the words of the writers themselves. Besides, that bit about the Phoenix needing energy from future generations only applies to when the Phoenix Force itself wants to be conscious...like I said, the Phoenix Force is just a force and not a person at all; being conscious isn't its natural state, and it requires energy in order to be conscious. Regardless, that stipend has no bearing at all to the Phoenix avatar of Jean Grey and what she does while accessing the Force.

So the phoenix is not an Xman. So it does not factor in to the fight, right?. Then is the original question flawed?

 

[BrianWilly]

Jean Grey is an X-Man, and she holds the power of the Phoenix. Therefore, Phoenix is an X-Man.

The Phoenix Force, which Jean Grey accesses, is not a person even though it is sometimes sentient. It is not an X-Man.

 

[LexCorp]

OK cool she access to it. So what Xmen win this fight?

 

[Whirlysplat]

I generally don't trust the handbooks as the final say, at least not over the words of the writers themselves. Besides, that bit about the Phoenix needing energy from future generations only applies to when the Phoenix Force itself wants to be conscious...like I said, the Phoenix Force is just a force and not a person at all; being conscious isn't its natural state, and it requires energy in order to be conscious. Regardless, that stipend has no bearing at all to the Phoenix avatar of Jean Grey and what she does while accessing the Force.

Ahh...... but Jean, in no incarnation is supreme my friend - can you say Goblin force. Actually like the Kabbalah rubbish it's ambiguous and depends on the writer. Like the varied interpretations across the web of the Xornetto debacle or the Chaos wave heading towards the White hot room and no one being able to stop it. That aside you are right that the Phoenix force of "that" universe incubated the big G in the egg. I mean some people interpret the Strangers fears as canon .

Anyway I think full potential Iceman and Magneto might have some bearing.

Although recent Supes feats including the 17.5X Light speed destruction of a moon of Saturn when Luthor became president, show what he is capable of.

 

[BrianWilly]

The most recent showing of the Phoenix, as told in Endsong, is the one that makes most sense to me as it is able to unify all the seemingly contradictory continuity of the Phoenix into a cohesive whole, not to mention being most agreeable with the original writer's intent; until something else comes along to contradict it, that's the version that I'd go with.

One writer -- Claremont -- saying something about the Phoenix is one thing. Two writers -- Claremont and Morrison -- saying the same thing about the Phoenix is another. But when three writers -- Claremont, Morrison, and Pak -- are saying the exact same things about the Phoenix, it can't be ignored.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Regardless of all definitions of the characters powers. Take it as X-men (at highest point) vs JLA (at highest point).

Highest Point meaning most powerful version of every character. Who would win?

That means batman prime rage is a character in play then.

 

[Whirlysplat]

The most recent showing of the Phoenix, as told in Endsong, is the one that makes most sense to me as it is able to unify all the seemingly contradictory continuity of the Phoenix into a cohesive whole, not to mention being most agreeable with the original writer's intent; until something else comes along to contradict it, that's the version that I'd go with.

One writer -- Claremont -- saying something about the Phoenix is one thing. Two writers -- Claremont and Morrison -- saying the same thing about the Phoenix might is another. But when three writers -- Claremont, Morrison, and Pak -- are saying the exact same things about the Phoenix, it can't be ignored.

Clarmont, Morrison and Pak told and tell good stories, unfortunately recent issues of FF contradict the Phoenix forces role a little. Damn Marvel continuity Reed helped create the Marvel Universe.

 

[LexCorp]

That means batman prime rage is a character in play then.

What is that?

 

[Red]

Jla

 

[LexCorp]

Jla

I want to agree but what of the phoenix issue?