Joker 'JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX' (Phillips and Phoenix return for the sequel) General News & Discussion Thread

[Gothamsknight]

I'm so torn. I kind of wanna see it out of sheer curiosity just so i can be in on all the hoopla thats sure to ensue this weekend but i dont wanna leave the theater angry either.

Thats 2+ hours of your life you won't get back

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Yep. It’s okay when it doesn’t work out to everyone’s liking sometimes - it’s still a formula more likely to produce greatness than the studio second guessing their creatives.

I'm talking from a business standpoint though. It doesn't seem like it's worked out super well for DC so far from that standpoint.

Everyone here is making it sound like Todd Phillips was trolling WB by making a much more expensive movie compared to the first that he knew would probably underperform compared to the first. It's just kind of crazy that WB didn't see this coming.

 

[kguillou]

I mean, heres the thing, we as film fans want creatives to do their thing and deliver their vision. But the studio still needs to be on the same page with said creative in terms of what they’re doing. When a studio and director work in sync, you get The Batman. When they’re out of sync you get BvS ( and i like BvS). The studio needs to know what it wants first and then let the director have at it. I dont think WBD had known what it wants from DC for a long time.

 

[dhandler01]

I'm talking from a business standpoint though. It doesn't seem like it's worked out super well for DC so far from that standpoint.

Everyone here is making it sound like Todd Phillips was trolling WB by making a much more expensive movie compared to the first that he knew would probably underperform compared to the first. It's just kind of crazy that WB didn't see this coming.

Well that could be the case even when they make a movie people do want to see...

The studio would have been better off just letting the first film be its own thing. That was their mistake. Letting Phillips do what he wants was the bargain they had to make to follow through with their original sin. (forcing a sequel)

 

[Pennywise]

 

[routhman]

I am wondering if the movie will play better for some after a second viewing with relaxed expectations.

As an elseworlds tale, the first movie subverted expectations in several ways. From the age of Bruce Wayne in that film, I came away with the feeling that this wasn’t really the Joker that would fight Batman, and Phillips later said as much.

I have a feeling that this information didn’t reach as many people in the wider audience and expected Joaquin’s character to become The Joker, which is never really what this was all about.

 

[Rick190293]

Was going to see this friday, but a friend had to cancel it. Unfortunately, I'm losing every bit of expectation to it

 

[kguillou]

I am wondering if the movie will play better for some after a second viewing with relaxed expectations.

As an elseworlds tale, the first movie subverted expectations in several ways. From the age of Bruce Wayne in that film, I came away with the feeling that this wasn’t really the Joker that would fight Batman, and Phillips later said as much.

I have a feeling that this information didn’t reach as many people in the wider audience and expected Joaquin’s character to become The Joker, which is never really what this was all about.

I cant speak for everyone but I personally never carried that expectation with this movie or the first. I wasn't expecting THE Joker origin story, i just wanted a good elseworld's tale about how the Joker could come about in a realistic world. I love Elseworld's tales and taking a unique approach to the characters and i just want a good story told. But i never expected Folie a deux to be THE prelude to this guy fighting Batman, i thought the first movie made it pretty clear that thats not the mission statement of this world.

 

[Matt.S99]

Overall Id give it a 6-6.5/10.

While did enjoy it seemingly more than others and do think there is an interesting story in there, it's a bit too drawn out and is a bit weak for a 2.5 hr film. It doesn't really go anywhere and didn't ramp up until the very end, but there are some great performances and I enjoyed most of the musical sequences and a couple other things.

Still, this was a completely unnecessary sequel that really wasn’t needed, but as a big Gaga fan, it was cool to see her as some sort of version of a charger I love, so that was cool.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I’ve completely lost interest in this and I was one of the biggest supporters of this movie until I started reading more about it. I was cool with everything until I read about the ending…

I appreciate how punk rock it is to antagonize the audience in this way, but I deeply care about this character and wanted something more enjoyable. The first movie is still a masterpiece in my opinion and I’m afraid to watch the sequel because it could taint the first one for me.

 

[Kon]

Well that could be the case even when they make a movie people do want to see...

The studio would have been better off just letting the first film be its own thing. That was their mistake. Letting Phillips do what he wants was the bargain they had to make to follow through with their original sin. (forcing a sequel)

I'm pretty sure WB has learn something: if the director of an original movie don't want to make a sequel, they should look for a different director for the sequel.

From a bussiness perspective, if the director of the original doesn't guarantee a success for the sequel of 1B movie, they could try with a new and cheaper director.

 

[Filmfreak]

I'm pretty sure WB has learn something: if the director of an original movie don't want to make a sequel, they should look for a different director for the sequel.

From a bussiness perspective, if the director of the original doesn't guarantee a success for the sequel of 1B movie, they could try with a new and cheaper director.

I wish they could learn that just because a stand-alone movie was successful doesn't mean forcing a sequel out of it will have similar results. Not everything needs to be a franchise or series of films. But of course they never learn that lesson.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

This movies sounds terrible but not a big fan of how much it seems to be awakening "Maybe studios should be more hands on and invasive" crowd.

 

[Rick190293]

What is more astonishing, imo, is how almost every review says it's a BAD movie, as opposed to the first one which is considered as one of the best movies ever made (exaggeratedly). Specially with Gaga, I don't think anyone was expecting this cold reaction.

 

[BobJM]

I cant speak for everyone but I personally never carried that expectation with this movie or the first. I wasn't expecting THE Joker origin story, i just wanted a good elseworld's tale about how the Joker could come about in a realistic world. I love Elseworld's tales and taking a unique approach to the characters and i just want a good story told. But i never expected Folie a deux to be THE prelude to this guy fighting Batman, i thought the first movie made it pretty clear that thats not the mission statement of this world.

So I just read the supposed ending and... it's fine? Not sure what people were expecting or wanting out of this, but this isn't the Joker of The Batman and it definitely won't be the Joker in the new DCU, so does it really matter what Philips does with this Elseworlds adaptation? If it's a bad movie, it's a bad movie, and we can debate that, but it seems that the biggest pushback to the ending is the implications it has for the title character moving forward

 

[Pennywise]

 

[AndyTrevino]

I'm feeling mildly vindicated after really not caring for a sequel to this thing at all, even back when I was a fan of Phoenix's Joker around 2020-ish.

I've always hated the whole "THE JOKER IS AN IDEA" angle, so this sounds absolutely dreadful. I'm just glad we have an actual ****ing Batman universe with a competent Joker to fall back on, and aren't just stuck with whatever this is anymore.

 

[Matt.S99]

Yikes lol. I am a bit baffled at the way people are making this seem like it’s the worst film ever made.

 

[BatLobster]

I mean, heres the thing, we as film fans want creatives to do their thing and deliver their vision. But the studio still needs to be on the same page with said creative in terms of what they’re doing. When a studio and director work in sync, you get The Batman. When they’re out of sync you get BvS ( and i like BvS). The studio needs to know what it wants first and then let the director have at it. I dont think WBD had known what it wants from DC for a long time.

To be fair, you could argue that even in cases when they were out of sync, it's led to stuff like Batman Returns. WB gave Burton carte blanche because he was seen as their golden boy at the time, but I'm not sure I would say they were in sync in terms of the studio really understanding what they were making until they actually saw it.

I feel like both in the case of Returns and this movie, it could be a situation where the studio might not 'get it', but they still just choose to roll the dice on the director that made them a ton of money on the previous movie. And this was a case where Phillips/Phoenix were probably a package deal and it wasn't like they could really continue this as a franchise without them, so they probably wielded a lot of power there. The mistake WB may have made here was assuming this would just coast off the back of the original's success at the box office no matter what the movie was. Might not be the case.

 

[AndyTrevino]

WB really is cursed. Every.single.dc sequel since the Bat trilogy has failed and been a dud. Most have been a massive step down in quality.

Lmao, no, The Batman is pretty great, so is The Penguin.

 

[Filmfan93]

So I just read the supposed ending and... it's fine? Not sure what people were expecting or wanting out of this, but this isn't the Joker of The Batman and it definitely won't be the Joker in the new DCU, so does it really matter what Philips does with this Elseworlds adaptation? If it's a bad movie, it's a bad movie, and we can debate that, but it seems that the biggest pushback to the ending is the implications it has for the title character moving forward

Don't slap "Joker" on the title of your film for the second time in a row if you don't plan on the title character being the Joker, then. It creates certain expectations and when these are not met (especially with the way this movie ends), then of course people will be disappointed.

 

[Filmfreak]

Lmao, no, The Batman is pretty great, so is The Penguin.

None of those are sequels.

 

[DyeLorean]

I don't want movies to fail... but... we know for a fact the first Joker was intended as a standalone movie and it got a sequel simply because it made a billion dollars. It wasn't made out of a creative endeavour, but purely for business. Maybe this will teach them a lesson. Just let some things be their own thing.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Todd Phillips: "Would y'all be interested in financing my 40 million dollar love letter to Martin Scorsese?"

WB exec: "Can you put some of these DC characters in it? The shareholders are really up our asses about these comic book movies."

Todd Phillips: "I can make that work."

A few years later...

WB exec: "Todd, you made us a billion dollars and we want you to do it again."

Todd Phillips: "I'd rather not."

WB exec: "C'mon, man. These shareholders are still up our asses about all this Marvel money we're not making. We'll quadruple your budget and give you creative control."

Todd Phillips: "Fine..."

WB exec: "Excellent! We'll be in touch." *walks away*

Todd Phillips: "... But, you're gonna wish you hadn't."

 

[Lily Adler]

Fan speculation: The inmate who kills Arthur is Heath's Joker. Sure why not.