Jurassic Park IV - Part 1

[moviefreak]

He confirmed via Twitter that there would be "No Feathers".

I, personally, think it would've been kind of creepy seeing them with it feathers. In a good way. I can picture it being scary, and at once helping to freshen the material, at least superficially. It could've being explained (in strictly movie-science terms) as the animals breeding and evolving into there natural state, over the years the frog DNA becoming diluted...

That said, it would go against the classic (mis?)conception of the dinosaurs, maybe would've been a little much for them. And if they choose to acknowledge it (they won't, nor should they, it would confuse the many people that don't know about it) they could just say what they always say (that the frog dna made it so that they aren't strictly real dinos).

Someone may have mentioned it in this trend or somewhere, anyway, the Velociraptors in the first Jurassic Park were actually made-up dinosaurs. The F/X people based their "Velociraptor" on a bigger raptor called Deinonychus.

The actual Velociraptor was the size of your backyard chicken LOL. The Velociraptor was most likely covered in colourful feathers with a hint of second wing feathers on hind limbs.

It is likely that ALL "raptors" (or scientifically 'Dromaeosauridae') were covered in feathers and/or proto-feathers. A lot of raptors seems to be "four-winged" with some capable of flight. The modern bird likely shared a common ancestor with the Dromaeosauridae.

See this link below about Dromaeosauridae:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/saurischia/dromaeosauridae.html

What an actual Velociraptor may have looked like:

Other dinosaurs were for most part feather-less, only a few exhibited some kind of proto-feathers like on the head.

So for the JP4 treatment, if they introduced a raptor-type dinosaur without a hint of feathers then it will be an outlier or scientifically inaccurate. Otherwise I'll just look forward to the next installment of JP as a pure escapist entertainment!

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Ya that part with the camo dinosaur (predator style) in the book was scary as hell. And the stuff with the raptor's nest and the motorcycle chase, was pretty good. I did prefer the book much more than the film. (The Lost World I'm talking of course)

The Carnotaurs, aka the villains from that Disney film "Dinosaur". You know they did make it into TLW arcade game, camo powers and all, but literally made them look like stupid bipedal chameleons.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Someone may have mentioned it in this trend or somewhere, anyway, the Velociraptors in the first Jurassic Park were actually made-up dinosaurs. The F/X people based their "Velociraptor" on a bigger raptor called Deinonychus.

The actual Velociraptor was the size of your backyard chicken LOL. The Velociraptor was most likely covered in colourful feathers with a hint of second wing feathers on hind limbs.

It is likely that ALL "raptors" (or scientifically 'Dromaeosauridae') were covered in feathers and/or proto-feathers. A lot of raptors seems to be "four-winged" with some capable of flight. The modern bird likely shared a common ancestor with the Dromaeosauridae.

See this link below about Dromaeosauridae:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/diapsids/saurischia/dromaeosauridae.html

What an actual Velociraptor may have looked like:

Other dinosaurs were for most part feather-less, only a few exhibited some kind of proto-feathers like on the head.

So for the JP4 treatment, if they introduced a raptor-type dinosaur without a hint of feathers then it will be an outlier or scientifically inaccurate. Otherwise I'll just look forward to the next installment of JP as a pure escapist entertainment!

Eh its too late for jp to fix its mistake.

They essentially created there own unique movie monster. No need to fix it

 

[moviefreak]

Eh its too late for jp to fix its mistake.

They essentially created there own unique movie monster. No need to fix it

Well, the only real "mistake" they made was in the size and type of Velociraptor. When JP came out in 1993, I saw it at the theater and afterward I had a real problem with the depiction of the Velociraptor - they were too large, and as it turned out they based it on another larger raptor.

It wasn't until around 1998 that it was scientifically proven (not proven beyond all doubt) that Velociraptor and other raptors of the same genus were feathered as they found bones with extensive quill knobs. So the film-makers weren't at fault. Of course, there were a lot of scientifically inaccuracies in JP but these did not detracted from my enjoyment of the film.

If anyone is interested, here is an old link that I had bookmarked,

Quill Knobs Reveal that Velociraptor Had Feathers:
http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/09/24/quill-knobs-reveal-that-veloci/

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I don't really care if some of them had feathers or not, I'm glad they are keeping the look of the dinos the same as the other films.

 

[Gold Samurai]

I doubt anyone wants to see a dinosaur slaughterfest no offense.

Agreed. I don't want the Jurassic Park movies to descend into "Lion's Gate" film territory.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well, the only real "mistake" they made was in the size and type of Velociraptor. When JP came out in 1993, I saw it at the theater and afterward I had a real problem with the depiction of the Velociraptor - they were too large, and as it turned out they based it on another larger raptor.

It wasn't until around 1998 that it was scientifically proven (not proven beyond all doubt) that Velociraptor and other raptors of the same genus were feathered as they found bones with extensive quill knobs. So the film-makers weren't at fault. Of course, there were a lot of scientifically inaccuracies in JP but these did not detracted from my enjoyment of the film.

If anyone is interested, here is an old link that I had bookmarked,

Quill Knobs Reveal that Velociraptor Had Feathers:
http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/09/24/quill-knobs-reveal-that-veloci/

this is also really old news. I'd venture most people do know about this flub, at least anyone who's slightly above normal intellect. There's no reason to go back now and fix it though. The raptor's they created are much more iconic now than the real version

 

[Jack Napier]

Agreed. I don't want the Jurassic Park movies to descend into "Lion's Gate" film territory.

Oh, I don't either. I was just saying if they do have a bunch of commandos, we're not going to care about them since we can't relate to them.

I love that shot of the torn out raptor fence in the first one. There's been so much buildup, and you know they're out there, and yet Spielberg still hasn't given us a good look at one yet. Straight out of his "Jaws" playbook. I'd like that same sense of menace to come back.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Someone may have mentioned it in this trend or somewhere, anyway, the Velociraptors in the first Jurassic Park were actually made-up dinosaurs. The F/X people based their "Velociraptor" on a bigger raptor called Deinonychus.

Blame Greg Paul. He grouped the Deinonychus under Velociraptor (as opposed to the opposite, modern consensus) in a popular paleo-book around the time Crichton started his research for the book. His reason was that typically in taxonomy, the first discovered animal get's the dominate namesake (our buddy Velociraptor was discovered about 10 or so years before Deinonychus - who wasn't officially named until 30 years later).

Crichton saw the larger Dienonychus listed under the genus Velociraptor in Paul's book and took it as accurate. By the time the filmmakers got to it, it was known to be wrong, but calling the larger, more fearsome animal by a scarier name was more dramatic than reality.

The actual Velociraptor was the size of your backyard chicken LOL. The Velociraptor was most likely covered in colourful feathers with a hint of second wing feathers on hind limbs.

Not quite that small. They grew to about 3 feet tall (ground to head) and 6 feet long. Bit bigger than a chicken, but definitely smaller than the 5 foot tall, 11 foot long Dienonychus. Most paleo-illustrations exaggerate the feathers as well - illustrations show them covered head to toe, yet the fossil record only indicates that Velociraptors had a few feathers along the back of it's forearms - only the forearm bones have quill stubs; there isn't any other evidence or impressions of feathers around the body like you'd see in the fully-covered Archeopteryx or Microraptor - it's all conjecture. And to give the filmmakers a little bit of credit, outside of the phylogenetic evidence, there isn't any direct evidence that Dienonychus had feathers at all, so their Dienonychus-inspired raptors aren't totally inaccurate in that regard (for now, anyway).

If you want to talk about a really big raptor, there's always the Utahraptor (officially discovered and named during production of JP1):

Spoiler

So for the JP4 treatment, if they introduced a raptor-type dinosaur without a hint of feathers then it will be an outlier or scientifically inaccurate. Otherwise I'll just look forward to the next installment of JP as a pure escapist entertainment!

Well, they tried to address it with the proto-feathers in JP3. I think they're stuck in a hard place - if they were 100% accurate, it'd be way too far off course of the visual library people have become accustomed to in the franchise. I don't have a problem with them keeping it subtle, but I think it'd be nice if they mentioned the issue in the new film - they could play it off as a byproduct of the amphibian DNA.

 

[Octoberist]

Yeah, they are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to accuracy.

I think the best thing to do is to subtly mention the 'amphibian DNA' and how InGen did indeed based their designs on (then) public knowledge on the dinosaurs. Perhaps, they knew before anyone did in the late 90's, as sort of a subtle retcon.

 

[Octoberist]

NOTHING EXCITING, but it looks like Collin has started scout locations and the film may shoot in LA (obviously):

Colin Trevorrow is currently in Los Angeles, where portions of the movie will be shot, Isabelle Trevorrow said. He will also be scouting locations for shoots, she said.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...revorrow-tapped-for-Jurassic-Park-4-?gcheck=1

 

[mclay18]

They may shoot part of the film in LA, but most of it will be in Baton Rouge. What other live-action film does Universal have on plate for a 2014 release?

 

[Octoberist]

That Seth McFarlene western...not a lot. Hence why they pushed hard for a 2014 release for this bad boy.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Everyones so used to seeing everything from trailers, setpics, posters etc. the days of suspense and surprise are over these days its such a shame.

 

[titansupes]

Everyones so used to seeing everything from trailers, setpics, posters etc. the days of suspense and surprise are over these days its such a shame.

That's why I'm avoiding spoilers like the plague. But it is difficult to say the least.

 

[mclay18]

That Seth McFarlene western...not a lot. Hence why they pushed hard for a 2014 release for this bad boy.

Maybe... but you never know.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

we should have a cast list by the summer right? or even early may?

 

[mclay18]

I wouldn't be surprised if we get casting as early as a few weeks. They have to start shooting within a couple of months, no question about that.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think there are elements of Jurassic Park 3 that are interesting but in reality, they're just scenes that were leftovers that were cut out from the previous films. That includes the river scene and the exploration of the cloning labs/facilities. It's not from a creative spark that drives the narrative, but rather, "Let's use the cut stuff from the other movies". JP 3 was known to have script problems and it showed, despite the level of talent involved (Alexander Payne), and had on set rewrites. Frankly, I don't know how much of Payne's work is present in the final script...

Even the concept of the Spinosaur never came off as an organic addition to the franchise. It felt toyatic. Bluntly toyatic. And I know that fans came up with theories about this, but where was the Spinosaurus in The Lost World? Fans said JP3 takes place on the other side of the island, therefore, you have different dinosaurs and a more forresty environment, but I just don't buy it.

Jim Taylor, Payne's co writer said they were brought on last minute and said not much of theirs made it in. He said they added the Laura Dern stuff.

 

[Lando81]

All I can say is THANK GOD for no feathers. Who cares if it's scientifically accurate? Feathered dinos would be FAR less threatening that what we've seen before.

 

[AnneFan]

Put me in the 'glad there's no feathers' camp, too.

 

[moviefreak]

Not quite that small. They grew to about 3 feet tall (ground to head) and 6 feet long. Bit bigger than a chicken, but definitely smaller than the 5 foot tall, 11 foot long Dienonychus. Most paleo-illustrations exaggerate the feathers as well - illustrations show them covered head to toe, yet the fossil record only indicates that Velociraptors had a few feathers along the back of it's forearms - only the forearm bones have quill stubs; there isn't any other evidence or impressions of feathers around the body like you'd see in the fully-covered Archeopteryx or Microraptor - it's all conjecture. And to give the filmmakers a little bit of credit, outside of the phylogenetic evidence, there isn't any direct evidence that Dienonychus had feathers at all, so their Dienonychus-inspired raptors aren't totally inaccurate in that regard (for now, anyway).

If you want to talk about a really big raptor, there's always the Utahraptor (officially discovered and named during production of JP1):

I actually exaggerated about the size of the Velociraptors by comparing them to the backyard chickens just to give layperson an idea of the size. Yes, they're slightly larger. You did explained it much better, I gathered that you're either a specialist or have an inmate knowledge of palaeontology. I just make do with reading some interesting research papers.

Well, they tried to address it with the proto-feathers in JP3. I think they're stuck in a hard place - if they were 100% accurate, it'd be way too far off course of the visual library people have become accustomed to in the franchise. I don't have a problem with them keeping it subtle, but I think it'd be nice if they mentioned the issue in the new film - they could play it off as a byproduct of the amphibian DNA.

Well in film making business, accuracies are all old hat since most people don't bothered with them and they just need to be thoroughly entertained!

For the others who think that Velociraptors with feathers will not be terrifying, come on. It'll be more terrifying with feathered headdress and some kind of quill feathers on limbs. Note that, these feathers were nothing like the modern bird.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I actually exaggerated about the size of the Velociraptors by comparing them to the backyard chickens just to give layperson an idea of the size. Yes, they're slightly larger. You did explained it much better, I gathered that you're either a specialist or have an inmate knowledge of palaeontology. I just make do with reading some interesting research papers.

Specialist, no. Just a life long lover of paleontology!

For the others who think that Velociraptors with feathers will not be terrifying, come on. It'll be more terrifying with feathered headdress and some kind of quill feathers on limbs. Note that, these feathers were nothing like the modern bird.

Spoiler

Even that looks far from intimidating. I think it's because we're conditioned to seeing feathered creatures are relatively harmless to us. We see birds as pretty, cute, or simply annoyances, and that conditioning has an effect on us - seeing a dinosaur with feathers just make our brains say "that looks like a six foot turkey".

I say give it a few proto-feathers, a little more advanced that what we saw in JP3. Feel free to add a few on the forearms, seeing how that's the only place we have evidence for, and call it a day. None of that exaggerated downy covering we see here.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

yeah... not a fan of Liberace looking dinosaurs. They look like Muppets.. yes, if it were chasing after me i'd be horrified, but... it's not so it looks silly

 

[mclay18]

JP3 production designer Ed Verreaux has returned for Jurassic Park 4.

http://innovativeartists.com/upload/VERREAUX.ED.web.resume.pdf

I blame the production schedule, color grading and cinematography for JP3's subpar look. Art direction and such was pretty sound.