Comics Just re-read the Death of Gwen Stacy...

[Kraven]

Yea, I agree, that moment was quite sad. I can't help but wonder what would've happened to Harry had Peter stayed and helped him.

 

[reallyoldspideyfan]

Hello,

I just read SINS PAST in my local Chapters. I quit collecting over decade ago but, every so often, go back and read some issues here and there. I started collecting before Gwen died and I thought I would share my thoughts on the aweful book.

First off, many of you mentioned MJ staying with Peter after Gwen's death. This was a "kind-of" shock because, at the time, MJ's character was not one who would do that. Many of you younger fans started collecting during the Peter/MJ thing so, going backwards, might not have surprised you but for a fan collecting back then, there was only ONE girl for Peter and that was GWEN. I personally never even liked reading the pages with MJ. She was not even important. She grew into something important.

Now, onto SINS PAST. It seems like there is always a lot of negativity on these boards and I try not to get involved but I have to here. Reading this book made my skin crawl. If that was their intent, mission accomplished. Perhaps comics have changed in the last ten years and I would not feel this way if I continued collecting. The idea that GWEN would sleep with NORMAN is totally and supremely out of character. First of all, the writers simply do not understand the allure of the GREEN GOBLIN. The pages where NORMAN was talking to GWEN, making plans and stuff, is not consistant with STAN LEE's work. If you read the issues leading up to #97, NORMAN is totally out of it during his transformation. If you read the issues leading up to #120, he is also totally out of it during his transformation. He also believes himself to be a GOD and would never take the time, even to have revenge on Spider-man, to bring himself down to a level of casual sex with Gwen. She is beneath him. Also, there was never any doubt in his mind who was more powerful so he would not make a back-up plan. His whole character was about being obsessed with proving to Spider-man who the smarter and more powerful being was. It's like they changed him to be more like LEX LUTHOR or something. The best part about the GOBLIN was watching Peter get nervous while NORMAN was acting like a zombie while changing. Norman might use/kill Gwen to get to Spider-man but never sleep with her.

Second, "Gwen felt something about Norman". Give me a break. Unless they come back and say she was under mind control, there is no excuse. They barely knew eachother. The whole point of the Goblin was that he was a BAD FATHER. He was never there. Even before the GOBLIN, he would not pay attention to Harry let alone his pathetic friends. After he became the GOBLIN, he become even more egotistical and thought he was a god. There is no way GWEN would know anything about him except the strained relationship between him and Harry (through Harry and Peter) and he was some sort of business man/scientist.

My message to Marvel writers: shock does not work anymore. Read the past issues again and dwelve into the characters. The CLONE SEGA started on a good idea that was left from issue #149-150. The door was open there for interpretation. Was Spider-man the real one. The idea you guys had was good but you turned it into a circus to sell issues and, in the end, ended up hurting you almost to banruptcy.

SINS PAST was a slap in the face to the fans.

I for one cannot wait to see GWEN on the big screen. The real first love of Spider-man's life. She loved him...and would never have slept with a 40+ year old, creepy old man she barely knew (and that is an understatement).

Sorry about the long post. I was very angry after reading that novel.

DN

 

[wolvie2020]

Hello,

I just read SINS PAST in my local Chapters. I quit collecting over decade ago but, every so often, go back and read some issues here and there. I started collecting before Gwen died and I thought I would share my thoughts on the aweful book.

First off, many of you mentioned MJ staying with Peter after Gwen's death. This was a "kind-of" shock because, at the time, MJ's character was not one who would do that. Many of you younger fans started collecting during the Peter/MJ thing so, going backwards, might not have surprised you but for a fan collecting back then, there was only ONE girl for Peter and that was GWEN. I personally never even liked reading the pages with MJ. She was not even important. She grew into something important.

Now, onto SINS PAST. It seems like there is always a lot of negativity on these boards and I try not to get involved but I have to here. Reading this book made my skin crawl. If that was their intent, mission accomplished. Perhaps comics have changed in the last ten years and I would not feel this way if I continued collecting. The idea that GWEN would sleep with NORMAN is totally and supremely out of character. First of all, the writers simply do not understand the allure of the GREEN GOBLIN. The pages where NORMAN was talking to GWEN, making plans and stuff, is not consistant with STAN LEE's work. If you read the issues leading up to #97, NORMAN is totally out of it during his transformation. If you read the issues leading up to #120, he is also totally out of it during his transformation. He also believes himself to be a GOD and would never take the time, even to have revenge on Spider-man, to bring himself down to a level of casual sex with Gwen. She is beneath him. Also, there was never any doubt in his mind who was more powerful so he would not make a back-up plan. His whole character was about being obsessed with proving to Spider-man who the smarter and more powerful being was. It's like they changed him to be more like LEX LUTHOR or something. The best part about the GOBLIN was watching Peter get nervous while NORMAN was acting like a zombie while changing. Norman might use/kill Gwen to get to Spider-man but never sleep with her.

Second, "Gwen felt something about Norman". Give me a break. Unless they come back and say she was under mind control, there is no excuse. They barely knew eachother. The whole point of the Goblin was that he was a BAD FATHER. He was never there. Even before the GOBLIN, he would not pay attention to Harry let alone his pathetic friends. After he became the GOBLIN, he become even more egotistical and thought he was a god. There is no way GWEN would know anything about him except the strained relationship between him and Harry (through Harry and Peter) and he was some sort of business man/scientist.

My message to Marvel writers: shock does not work anymore. Read the past issues again and dwelve into the characters. The CLONE SEGA started on a good idea that was left from issue #149-150. The door was open there for interpretation. Was Spider-man the real one. The idea you guys had was good but you turned it into a circus to sell issues and, in the end, ended up hurting you almost to banruptcy.

SINS PAST was a slap in the face to the fans.

I for one cannot wait to see GWEN on the big screen. The real first love of Spider-man's life. She loved him...and would never have slept with a 40+ year old, creepy old man she barely knew (and that is an understatement).

Sorry about the long post. I was very angry after reading that novel.

DN

Hey man, don't worry about the long post, they have to be done once in a while...

Your not the only one here who feels like that, it's the general consensus all over the world, (except for some newbies who don't reallt know the characters, and some random people.)

While I didn't start reading the Spidey comics the same time you did, (I started in the 80's, black costume time,) I too feel genuinely disgusted at the depiction of women in this story, (JQ and JMS seem to have a problem with women,) but also ALL of the major points you made regarding the history, and EVERYONE acting waaaaaaayyyy out of character.

Can you believe, JQ and JMS both said that Gwen doing that makes her more 3-D?? And more of a real person???????

Yea, that book is plainly offensive. Did you know, (it's been mentioned a billion times on these boards so probably yea,) JMS orignally intended for Pete to be the Father? And only at the last minute JQ FORCED it to be Norman... JQ has this bizaare fear of aging Peter. He's so scared of it that he actually has made moves to hurt the charcters history

So anyway, instead of having the balls to star from scratch, they went ahead with the story with that slight(???!!!) tweak. Ever notice how Gabriel looks EXACTLY like Peter? It's not hard to figure out why.

While it would've better much better that this story should never have happened, at least the rape thing would've been a whole lot more realistic

 

[The Bruce]

If the Internet existed when Conway killed Gwen - People would have freaked.

 

[reallyoldspideyfan]

Hello,

>If the Internet existed when Conway killed Gwen - People would have freaked

Yep, that is true. I would be mad but at least the GOBLIN going after Gwen would make sense. As I mentioned in my LONG reply above, Gwen feeling something towards Norman is totally absurd.

The thing I remember feeling the most was shock, then sad, then angry, then, as I read the next few issues, growth. I was growing up with Peter and coping with the loss with him.

Something, as a teen, I will never forget.

DN

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

Hello,

I just read SINS PAST in my local Chapters. I quit collecting over decade ago but, every so often, go back and read some issues here and there. I started collecting before Gwen died and I thought I would share my thoughts on the aweful book.

First off, many of you mentioned MJ staying with Peter after Gwen's death. This was a "kind-of" shock because, at the time, MJ's character was not one who would do that. Many of you younger fans started collecting during the Peter/MJ thing so, going backwards, might not have surprised you but for a fan collecting back then, there was only ONE girl for Peter and that was GWEN. I personally never even liked reading the pages with MJ. She was not even important. She grew into something important.

Now, onto SINS PAST. It seems like there is always a lot of negativity on these boards and I try not to get involved but I have to here. Reading this book made my skin crawl. If that was their intent, mission accomplished. Perhaps comics have changed in the last ten years and I would not feel this way if I continued collecting. The idea that GWEN would sleep with NORMAN is totally and supremely out of character. First of all, the writers simply do not understand the allure of the GREEN GOBLIN. The pages where NORMAN was talking to GWEN, making plans and stuff, is not consistant with STAN LEE's work. If you read the issues leading up to #97, NORMAN is totally out of it during his transformation. If you read the issues leading up to #120, he is also totally out of it during his transformation. He also believes himself to be a GOD and would never take the time, even to have revenge on Spider-man, to bring himself down to a level of casual sex with Gwen. She is beneath him. Also, there was never any doubt in his mind who was more powerful so he would not make a back-up plan. His whole character was about being obsessed with proving to Spider-man who the smarter and more powerful being was. It's like they changed him to be more like LEX LUTHOR or something. The best part about the GOBLIN was watching Peter get nervous while NORMAN was acting like a zombie while changing. Norman might use/kill Gwen to get to Spider-man but never sleep with her.

Second, "Gwen felt something about Norman". Give me a break. Unless they come back and say she was under mind control, there is no excuse. They barely knew eachother. The whole point of the Goblin was that he was a BAD FATHER. He was never there. Even before the GOBLIN, he would not pay attention to Harry let alone his pathetic friends. After he became the GOBLIN, he become even more egotistical and thought he was a god. There is no way GWEN would know anything about him except the strained relationship between him and Harry (through Harry and Peter) and he was some sort of business man/scientist.

My message to Marvel writers: shock does not work anymore. Read the past issues again and dwelve into the characters. The CLONE SEGA started on a good idea that was left from issue #149-150. The door was open there for interpretation. Was Spider-man the real one. The idea you guys had was good but you turned it into a circus to sell issues and, in the end, ended up hurting you almost to banruptcy.

SINS PAST was a slap in the face to the fans.

I for one cannot wait to see GWEN on the big screen. The real first love of Spider-man's life. She loved him...and would never have slept with a 40+ year old, creepy old man she barely knew (and that is an understatement).

Sorry about the long post. I was very angry after reading that novel.

DN

It is really interesting to see someone's perspective on this who was alive at the time of this and reading it. As you've said, us younger fans have grown up with MJ, and we never knew Gwen. When I try to read the older ones with her, they seem so dated and my affection for MJ colors my enjoyment of those issues. But even so, the profound sense of loss and sadness is transferred.
Thank goodness for Ultimate Spider-man, us younger folk are starting to get a bit of a perspective on how you must have felt, as their are many parallels. USM MJ's character is much like 616 Gwen's; fiesty, loyal, smart and sensitive; when she first showed up. You can't help but like her. And she has been getting eclipsed by another more popular secondary love interest ( Ultimate Kitty ) much like early 616 MJ was more popular.
Approaching Death of a Goblin, with MJ's "transformation", is giving us reason to fear that we may see "Death-of-the-First-Love" parallel as well. While it would make a powerful story, at this point it would feel cheapened by the "shock value" and also would look forced because of Kitty's popularity. My point was, us young folk can see some major parallels now, thanks to USM.
and if I was in your place, I would miss Gwen over MJ too.
( I know how I would feel if USM MJ bit it )

 

[wolvie2020]

If the Internet existed when Conway killed Gwen - People would have freaked.

Actually, if you read a recent interview on this forum, or read an other interview, or watched a part of a DVD regarding that matter, (sorry I don't mean to sound condescending,) that totally happened. Before the internet, there were PLENTY of letters. You remember that page at the back of every comic until the 90's? Stan and co. took 'em seriously back in the day. And they showed good ones and bad ones.

Also, conventions have existed for decades, and Conway said that he has taken a lot of heat from the story. But Conway and Romita stuck to their guns for the reasons of doing the story, and in the end, it turned out right. So much so, the ramifications are CLEARLY felt to this day.