Comics Have Spidey comics passed the point of of no return?

[Spider-Fan]

Spider-Man is loved by so many because he is a character they can relate to in one capacity or another. He is the everyman who happens to be a superhero. What is the everyman supposed to do in life?

1- Graduate High School
2- Graduate College
3- Get Married
4- Have Kids

Like all the rest of us, he has to grow up sometime. Spider-Man is the everyman with powers, thus he should progress like the everyman. All the stories of his youth and being single are pretty much done. You can only do so much before you have to move on. That is what Marvel doesn't get. You know how you get clones and goblin babies? By trying to come up with new material when you have done mostly everything you can do in these conditions. Giving Peter a child would give us an interesting new dynamic for Peter, and not seem like an attempt to come up with something new. You can't just turn back the clock. That cuts out the good Spider-Man stories that have happend, and where Peter has come. All the crap they have done from Sins Past forward has KILLED many of the aspects people find appealing about Spider-Man. What more are they gonna do? Turning back the clock will just rehash crap that already happend, only in a better period for comics.

Peter is not in a place in the comics where he can have kids now, that is true. Their goal should be to do damage control and move things back in the direction he can. This is not an answer. This is causing more problems.

I got out of collecting Spider-Man comics in the middle of Sins Past. I knew we had another clone saga period on our hands. I will only get back when the storm is over. Marvel has no idea what they are doing at all right now.

 

[Dragon]

Spider-Man is loved by so many because he is a character they can relate to in one capacity or another. He is the everyman who happens to be a superhero. What is the everyman supposed to do in life?

1- Graduate High School
2- Graduate College
3- Get Married
4- Have Kids

Like all the rest of us, he has to grow up sometime. Spider-Man is the everyman with powers, thus he should progress like the everyman.

The things listed above are not realisitc for EVERY PERSON. A simple example would be that a soldier fighting in Iraq might certainly WANT to be home with his girl, getting married and having a family. But it isn't REALISTIC for him to do so. Same with Spidey. He might want those things, but it doesn't mean he should be, as I said earlier, shoe-horned into having them. If you're suggesting Spider-Man engage in the actions of most, then he should be divorced, bitter, overweight, working a 9-to-5 job that he hates.

What should be happening is that Spidey move forward from where he is now, in CHARACTER DEVELOPING stories. They might lead him to those things listed above. They might not.

And I'll say this- the most classic, defining and important stories in Spidey's run don't involve any of the above "progressions".

 

[Spider-Fan]

The things listed above are not realisitc for EVERY PERSON. A simple example would be that a soldier fighting in Iraq might certainly WANT to be home with his girl, getting married and having a family. But it isn't REALISTIC for him to do so. Same with Spidey. He might want those things, but it doesn't mean he should be, as I said earlier, shoe-horned into having them. If you're suggesting Spider-Man engage in the actions of most, then he should be divorced, bitter, overweight, working a 9-to-5 job that he hates.

What should be happening is that Spidey move forward from where he is now, in CHARACTER DEVELOPING stories. They might lead him to those things listed above. They might not.

And I'll say this- the most classic, defining and important stories in Spidey's run don't involve any of the above "progressions".

It is the stereotypical life. Ask most people how life is supposed to go at a young age, that is what most will say. I never said that most people live this life out. I am saying it is the idea of what the everyman does in life. Peter lives out situations people identify with, and these are four things most identify with.

And how is his character developing if you turn back the clock? He is REGRESSING in that case. They have run out of ideas, that much is clear. Having Peter deal with parenthood would have been a logical progression and not be forced like the goblin babies, death, ressurection, unmasking, etc. What Marvel should do is move Peter back to a place where a proper progression can take place, not say screw developing him, lets make him a teen again cause people loved the Lee/Ditko/Romita era.

These stories you cite were during periods of his life. You don't progress over a day or issue. It is a collection of events. You don't go to college then graduate in a day. It is a process. All the classic stories occurred at one point during one of these processes, whether you want to admit that or not.

 

[Dragon]

It is the stereotypical life. Ask most people how life is supposed to go at a young age, that is what most will say. I never said that most people live this life out. I am saying it is the idea of what the everyman does in life. Peter lives out situations people identify with, and these are four things most identify with.

Exactly. In youth, we naively think that this is supposed to be our future. Then we grow up and realize this isn't always the case. And there are ALOT of people who can relate to Peter not having children and his marriage ending as well. Or does their experience not count? Again, I'm not saying marriage and family CAN'T POSSIBLY work for Peter. But it can't as his life is now, and for fans to say that giving Peter those things because he's an "everyman" isn't the solution to the problem. An ADULT in Peter's situation would make the decision that a child would be an unneeded burden, and as parents it would be irresponsible to place a child in the midst of danger since their first child WAS KILLED by an enemy, his girlfirend was killed by an enemy, as well as Aunt May having recently been shot.

And how is his character developing if you turn back the clock? He is REGRESSING in that case. They have run out of ideas, that much is clear. Having Peter deal with parenthood would have been a logical progression and not be forced like the goblin babies, death, ressurection, unmasking, etc. What Marvel should do is move Peter back to a place where a proper progression can take place, not say screw developing him, lets make him a teen again cause people loved the Lee/Ditko/Romita era.

I've been saying that I don't agree with Quesada's reasoning. I say just move Peter forward from where he is. But for you to say having a child is a "logical progression" is just as off. Peter having another child after the first was killed, and his life is now in shambles is as logical as someone getting their leg amputated and deciding to run a marathon the next day in an attempt "to get back on that horse".

These stories you cite were during periods of his life. You don't progress over a day or issue. It is a collection of events. You don't go to college then graduate in a day. It is a process. All the classic stories occurred at one point during one of these processes, whether you want to admit that or not.

But- your fellow posters are holding up these events as watersheds in Spider-Man's history, and they clearly aren't. These events of progression aren't what Spider-Man is about. It isn't about his being an "everyman" either. It's about a guy named Peter Parker, seemingly unextraodinary, but within himself, in his most secret place, he is. And how he tries to make it living day-to-day bearing that weight. It's not that he's an "everyman". His experience is unique, yet familiar.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Exactly. In youth, we naively think that this is supposed to be our future. Then we grow up and realize this isn't always the case. And there are ALOT of people who can relate to Peter not having children and his marriage ending as well. Or does their experience not count? Again, I'm not saying marriage and family CAN'T POSSIBLY work for Peter. But it can't as his life is now, and for fans to say that giving Peter those things because he's an "everyman" isn't the solution to the problem. An ADULT in Peter's situation would make the decision that a child would be an unneeded burden, and as parents it would be irresponsible to place a child in the midst of danger since their first child WAS KILLED by an enemy, his girlfirend was killed by an enemy, as well as Aunt May having recently been shot.

I agree, currently he is not in a place this is possible. I said we need to move him back to point it is possible again, or to where he can develop. Not keep giving us more shock factor crap.


I've been saying that I don't agree with Quesada's reasoning. I say just move Peter forward from where he is. But for you to say having a child is a "logical progression" is just as off. Peter having another child after the first was killed, and his life is now in shambles is as logical as someone getting their leg amputated and deciding to run a marathon the next day in an attempt "to get back on that horse".

You haven't been listening to me. I said it isn't possible right NOW. I said the goal should be to get us back to where it IS or where he can at least grow. Have I not made that point clear? You act like I said he should have a kid like next issue, and like with life, it is gonna be a process to get back to a place that is a possibility again. Hell, could take years, but it should be a longterm goal.

Also, Quesada is an idiot and should have been fired long ago. His books may sell, but they suck. I wish they didn't sell so he'd get fired (I am doing my part by not buying).


But- your fellow posters are holding up these events as watersheds in Spider-Man's history, and they clearly aren't. These events of progression aren't what Spider-Man is about. It isn't about his being an "everyman" either. It's about a guy named Peter Parker, seemingly unextraodinary, but within himself, in his most secret place, he is. And how he tries to make it living day-to-day bearing that weight. It's not that he's an "everyman". His experience is unique, yet familiar.

I disagree with you on this, too. Many of Spider-Man's experiences are fantasy metaphors for real conflicts people go through. Sure, I doubt anyone's girlfriend was kidnapped by a guy in a goblin costume, fell off a bridge, and their webline accidently snapped their neck from stopping the fall, but people have been in situations like driving a car, getting into an accident, and their girlfriend dies. Situations where you lose a loved one, and you feel it is your fault. Peter's fantastic conflicts mirror people's real conflicts, and that is what makes him appealing. I may not know what it is like to put on a garish outfit and fight a bunch of super powered people, but I DO know what it is like to juggle tons of responsibilities at once.

And yes, Parker does show us seemingly unextraordinary people can be extraordinary, but he also reflects the audience outside the comics panels. Just about anyone can relate to him.

 

[Dragon]

You haven't been listening to me. I said it isn't possible right NOW. I said the goal should be to get us back to where it IS or where he can at least grow. Have I not made that point clear? You act like I said he should have a kid like next issue, and like with life, it is gonna be a process to get back to a place that is a possibility again. Hell, could take years, but it should be a longterm goal.

Who said that was supposed to be the long term goal? Not Stan Lee. He said he did intend for Peter and Gwen to marry. That didn't mean they'd stay married or have children. In fact, if anything, Spidey's mythos suggested time and again that he COULDN'T have a normal, happy family life. That this was the price or CURSE of his being Spider-Man. Only fans say that Peter is supposed to have those things.

I disagree with you on this, too. Many of Spider-Man's experiences are fantasy metaphors for real conflicts people go through. Sure, I doubt anyone's girlfriend was kidnapped by a guy in a goblin costume, fell off a bridge, and their webline accidently snapped their neck from stopping the fall, but people have been in situations like driving a car, getting into an accident, and their girlfriend dies. Situations where you lose a loved one, and you feel it is your fault.

It isn't the same situation AT ALL. Gwen's death isn't a metaphor. It's a specific event brought about by a set of circumstances unique to Peter's life. And it isn't only people who have lost someone who can relate to that situation. That's why I keep saying this "everyman" thing is taken too far by some fans. I certainly don't feel any guilt in the loss of any loved ones. But I can feel for Peter in that situation as much as anyone else.

And further- That event- and others in Peter's life would naturally create a mindset that wouldn't exist in people who haven't had such experiences. So to simply expect Peter to get what others have is ridiculous. Just because he shares experiences that we all have doesn't negate the experiences that he has had that no one else has, which will also shape the direction of his life.

Peter's fantastic conflicts mirror people's real conflicts, and that is what makes him appealing. I may not know what it is like to put on a garish outfit and fight a bunch of super powered people, but I DO know what it is like to juggle tons of responsibilities at once.

But you don't know what it's like to constantly face danger as Peter does. So your life decisions would be based on a totally different mindset from his.

And yes, Parker does show us seemingly unextraordinary people can be extraordinary, but he also reflects the audience outside the comics panels. Just about anyone can relate to him.

Yes. WE CAN relate to him. We can relate and feel his pain when he's being pummelled by Doc Ock, even though that's something we'll never experience. So, Peter clearly doesn't have to live our lives for us to relate to him.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Who said that was supposed to be the long term goal? Not Stan Lee. He said he did intend for Peter and Gwen to marry. That didn't mean they'd stay married or have children. In fact, if anything, Spidey's mythos suggested time and again that he COULDN'T have a normal, happy family life. That this was the price or CURSE of his being Spider-Man. Only fans say that Peter is supposed to have those things.

That would be my personal longterm goal, yes, however at this point the character just needs to be put back into a place where he can develop logically, because he isn't there yet. Doesn't necessarily have to be a kid, but that would be one answer. There are many routes that can be taken to develop him, however. What would your answer be?

It isn't the same situation AT ALL. Gwen's death isn't a metaphor. It's a specific event brought about by a set of circumstances unique to Peter's life. And it isn't only people who have lost someone who can relate to that situation. That's why I keep saying this "everyman" thing is taken too far by some fans. I certainly don't feel any guilt in the loss of any loved ones. But I can feel for Peter in that situation as much as anyone else.

I never said you couldn't relate to that. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. I said that would be akin to something like that happening. Also, I never called that a metaphor. I used it as an example of how a fantasy occurrence reflected real life occurrences. Do I have to cite every Spider-Man comic point that was a metaphor for you?

And further- That event- and others in Peter's life would naturally create a mindset that wouldn't exist in people who haven't had such experiences. So to simply expect Peter to get what others have is ridiculous. Just because he shares experiences that we all have doesn't negate the experiences that he has had that no one else has, which will also shape the direction of his life.

Peter has experienced things no one could because he lives in a fantasy world. However, for the character to continue to be relatable and for us to care, we need to him to mirror our experiences in some capacity or another. That is what the comics are failing at right now and why nobody cares.

But you don't know what it's like to constantly face danger as Peter does. So your life decisions would be based on a totally different mindset from his.

No, I don't. Did I ever claim my life was just like his? Again, putting words in my mouth. You sound like a politician by bringing up stupid points I never tried to make. Of course I am not going to know what it is like to be hunted by villains BECAUSE THIS IS A FANTASY WORLD. However, Peter's life can be related to in MOST aspect (I guess I can't leave that word out of a sentence cause you'll keep trying to add things I didn't say or mean). However, soldiers face this everyday, so though I never experience such danger, I can still relate to it.

Yes. WE CAN relate to him. We can relate and feel his pain when he's being pummelled by Doc Ock, even though that's something we'll never experience. So, Peter clearly doesn't have to live our lives for us to relate to him.

His life still has to reflect ours in one way or another. If they did that, stories would come and people would care again. Until the writers get back to having Peter's experiences be more relatable and not flat out stupid, this comic will have no quality.

 

[Dragon]

That would be my personal longterm goal, yes, however at this point the character just needs to be put back into a place where he can develop logically, because he isn't there yet. Doesn't necessarily have to be a kid, but that would be one answer. There are many routes that can be taken to develop him, however. What would your answer be?

Well, some might say that this is what Quesada is trying to do (I'm not not one however). I think we shouldn't be given a cheat. I say, start from this point and move forward. His identity public knowledge, his family on the run, and pick up the pieces from there. If Peter were going to have a family one of two things need to happen. Either he rebuilds his life and is in a place where he and MJ are stable, and believe themselves to be safe- OR- they have an unplanned pregnancy which would involve ALOT of craziness, and which might actually be a more interesting route to go.

I never said you couldn't relate to that. You keep trying to put words in my mouth. I said that would be akin to something like that happening. Also, I never called that a metaphor. I used it as an example of how a fantasy occurrence reflected real life occurrences. Do I have to cite every Spider-Man comic point that was a metaphor for you?

It doesn't matter how many metaphors there are. I'm saying the SPECIFICS of Peter's life are what will determine the direction it will go in. That's CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Fans just saying Peter's life should go in a certain direction because that's what THEY WANT is artificial development. It's artificial development that's painted Peter into a corner where the writers and editors feel he needs a magic bullet to reboot things so they can continue to produce stories.

Peter has experienced things no one could because he lives in a fantasy world. However, for the character to continue to be relatable and for us to care, we need to him to mirror our experiences in some capacity or another. That is what the comics are failing at right now and why nobody cares.

That's clearly not the case since again, we relate to Peter in the most unbelievable of circumstances. What we need is GOOD WRITING. Peter unmasking before the world wasn't good writing. It wasn't true to the character. It might have been "interesting" and made for some crazy stories, but it wasn't good writing. Good writing would've been Peter being true to himself, NOT UNMASKING and dealing with the consequences of that choice. Again, there's been so much artificial development because Marvel thinks in terms of events and not character. If the marriage had been written these past 20 years based on character and not "What-ifs" then it might actually be interesting.

No, I don't. Did I ever claim my life was just like his? Again, putting words in my mouth. You sound like a politician by bringing up stupid points I never tried to make. Of course I am not going to know what it is like to be hunted by villains BECAUSE THIS IS A FANTASY WORLD. However, Peter's life can be related to in MOST aspect (I guess I can't leave that word out of a sentence cause you'll keep trying to add things I didn't say or mean). However, soldiers face this everyday, so though I never experience such danger, I can still relate to it.

Uh.. Okay. So- as I was saying, fantasy world or not, there are "realities" that Peter has to deal with. So his decisions and "progression" must reflect the life he has lived. And we'll be able to "relate" as long as those choices are believable for him. It doesn't matter that they are decisions we would or wouldn't make. Problem is, as I said above, that Marvel has been forcing decisions on Peter that are not believable for him. People have DIED because his identity got into the wrong hands. So he'd NEVER risk such a thing.

His life still has to reflect ours in one way or another. If they did that, stories would come and people would care again. Until the writers get back to having Peter's experiences be more relatable and not flat out stupid, this comic will have no quality.

When you say Peter's life needs to "reflect" ours, that's an extremely general statement. "We" all have very different and varying lives, goals and futures. So Peter "reflecting" our lives is a very loaded request. Like I said- my only requirement is that Peter be a "real", fleshed-out person. That his past and present draw a logical line toward his future, bearing in mind the random obstacles that life will throw in his path. His future may be a family life, or it may be his ending up completely alone and bitter. It just requires that skilled hands be at the wheel plotting the course, which hasn't been the case for far too long.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Spidey was created as, and I quote, "The superhero who could be you."

What this means is, could be you - under the mask. Of course the superheroics don't reflect the average reader's life, but the Peter Parker stuff does. It's just elevated to extreme levels.

He had a hard time in high school, problems finding apartments, girl trouble, loved ones die, job trouble, money trouble - all things the majority can relate to.

Thus, as much as I agree with Dragon's statement that Peter's life should progress in a way relative and logical for him personally, it should also be something that the reader can relate to.

A though occurs to me; Peter is now apparently in his late twenties, approaching thirty - is this not the drop-off age for comic readers, thirty-ish? Therefore, if he progressing much further in age, he is beyond what most readers can relate to, certainly younger readers. Having a baby, what 18-year old can relate to that? Apart from every other 18-year old chav in England?

 

[arachnid-guy]

Spidey was created as, and I quote, "The superhero who could be you."

What this means is, could be you - under the mask. Of course the superheroics don't reflect the average reader's life, but the Peter Parker stuff does. It's just elevated to extreme levels.

He had a hard time in high school, problems finding apartments, girl trouble, loved ones die, job trouble, money trouble - all things the majority can relate to.

Thus, as much as I agree with Dragon's statement that Peter's life should progress in a way relative and logical for him personally, it should also be something that the reader can relate to.

A though occurs to me; Peter is now apparently in his late twenties, approaching thirty - is this not the drop-off age for comic readers, thirty-ish? Therefore, if he progressing much further in age, he is beyond what most readers can relate to, certainly younger readers. Having a baby, what 18-year old can relate to that? Apart from every other 18-year old chav in England?

Agreed.

But....I thought the average age for chav preganacy was 12?

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Agreed.

But....I thought the average age for chav preganacy was 12?

Don't be silly.


It's clearly six.

 

[Themanofbat]

A though occurs to me; Peter is now apparently in his late twenties, approaching thirty - is this not the drop-off age for comic readers, thirty-ish? Therefore, if he progressing much further in age, he is beyond what most readers can relate to, certainly younger readers. Having a baby, what 18-year old can relate to that? Apart from every other 18-year old chav in England?

During the last 15 years or so, the average comic buyer is in their late 20's to early 40's, because they were buying comics when they were a) good b) cheap AND c) still respected the reader's intelligence.

I don't see too many teens buying comics nowadays.

 

[Dragon]

Spidey was created as, and I quote, "The superhero who could be you."

Well, I think that's as much a sales pitch as an accurate descrpition of the character.

What this means is, could be you - under the mask. Of course the superheroics don't reflect the average reader's life, but the Peter Parker stuff does. It's just elevated to extreme levels.

He had a hard time in high school, problems finding apartments, girl trouble, loved ones die, job trouble, money trouble - all things the majority can relate to.

Thus, as much as I agree with Dragon's statement that Peter's life should progress in a way relative and logical for him personally, it should also be something that the reader can relate to.

Well, I'm not saying his life should be alien to everyone. He'll always struggle to make ends meet. He'll always have relationship problems and so forth. But again, if we're talking about Peter living a life that can relate to all of us, this covers too wide a range. Not everyone gets married or has kids. Some folks get divorced, some have affairs, some hit the lottery. Some have lost large numbers of loved ones, some have never been to a funeral. It's too wide a range of possiblities. So the best the writers can do, and should do, is make the stories true to Peter's experience.

 

[Themanofbat]

I'm with Dragon on this one...

I just want good stories told WITHIN the confines of established continuity.

That shouldn't be difficult for a good writer worth his or her salt.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, some might say that this is what Quesada is trying to do (I'm not not one however). I think we shouldn't be given a cheat. I say, start from this point and move forward. His identity public knowledge, his family on the run, and pick up the pieces from there. If Peter were going to have a family one of two things need to happen. Either he rebuilds his life and is in a place where he and MJ are stable, and believe themselves to be safe- OR- they have an unplanned pregnancy which would involve ALOT of craziness, and which might actually be a more interesting route to go.

I agree with this.

It doesn't matter how many metaphors there are. I'm saying the SPECIFICS of Peter's life are what will determine the direction it will go in. That's CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Fans just saying Peter's life should go in a certain direction because that's what THEY WANT is artificial development. It's artificial development that's painted Peter into a corner where the writers and editors feel he needs a magic bullet to reboot things so they can continue to produce stories.

Like I said, it doesn't HAVE to be that. It just needs to be logical development for the character (a concept lost to Quesada). However, giving him a chidl is one alternative.

That's clearly not the case since again, we relate to Peter in the most unbelievable of circumstances. What we need is GOOD WRITING. Peter unmasking before the world wasn't good writing. It wasn't true to the character. It might have been "interesting" and made for some crazy stories, but it wasn't good writing. Good writing would've been Peter being true to himself, NOT UNMASKING and dealing with the consequences of that choice. Again, there's been so much artificial development because Marvel thinks in terms of events and not character. If the marriage had been written these past 20 years based on character and not "What-ifs" then it might actually be interesting.

I agree, he needs good writing. I will say again, logical progression doesn't HAVE to be children oriented. As I said, it is one possible answer (whenever all this crap they have done to Peter is over).

But, I wouldn't say we relate to him in the most unbelievable circumstance. When he needs to get medicine to Aunt May, but Doc Ock is stopping him, sure we can relate. Can we relate when Peter is learning he a ton of clones? Or his dead past girlfriend had mutant children with my archenemy? No. Marvel needs to stop the shock factor and make him relatable again.

Uh.. Okay. So- as I was saying, fantasy world or not, there are "realities" that Peter has to deal with. So his decisions and "progression" must reflect the life he has lived. And we'll be able to "relate" as long as those choices are believable for him. It doesn't matter that they are decisions we would or wouldn't make. Problem is, as I said above, that Marvel has been forcing decisions on Peter that are not believable for him. People have DIED because his identity got into the wrong hands. So he'd NEVER risk such a thing.

The fantasy world thing I pointed out because you acting like a normal person has to live in the exact same environment to relate or declare their life reflected, and I am saying that your life doesn't have to be exactly that of the character you are reading about to achieve that end. I agree Marvel is not thinking about what Peter would do. You pointed out what they are doing wrong three times in this post, but we are in agreement they are being stupid and making out of character.

When you say Peter's life needs to "reflect" ours, that's an extremely general statement. "We" all have very different and varying lives, goals and futures. So Peter "reflecting" our lives is a very loaded request. Like I said- my only requirement is that Peter be a "real", fleshed-out person. That his past and present draw a logical line toward his future, bearing in mind the random obstacles that life will throw in his path. His future may be a family life, or it may be his ending up completely alone and bitter. It just requires that skilled hands be at the wheel plotting the course, which hasn't been the case for far too long.

Again, Spider-Man does need a skilled writer and a logical progression (not shocking events). The stupid things that Marvel has been doing to him don't allow us to put ourselves in the same situation. We can imagine life if our girlfriend died, were robbed of two weeks of our lives, having someone close go thru a financial crisis, our bestfriend becoming an enemy, etc. We can't imagine having clones, having mutant chilren try to kill us, or get killed and go thru a Spider cycle to come back. The unmasking could be imagined by us (putting others in harms way), but the problem with that (as you and I agree) is Peter wouldn't do it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Spidey was created as, and I quote, "The superhero who could be you."

What this means is, could be you - under the mask. Of course the superheroics don't reflect the average reader's life, but the Peter Parker stuff does. It's just elevated to extreme levels.

He had a hard time in high school, problems finding apartments, girl trouble, loved ones die, job trouble, money trouble - all things the majority can relate to.

Thus, as much as I agree with Dragon's statement that Peter's life should progress in a way relative and logical for him personally, it should also be something that the reader can relate to.

A though occurs to me; Peter is now apparently in his late twenties, approaching thirty - is this not the drop-off age for comic readers, thirty-ish? Therefore, if he progressing much further in age, he is beyond what most readers can relate to, certainly younger readers. Having a baby, what 18-year old can relate to that? Apart from every other 18-year old chav in England?

Most comic readers are people who got into them at a certain point earlier in life and continued reading. Not many kids read comics anymore (that is why the company's have moved to making them gritty and shocking). Tons of comic readers would be in their 30's-40's, so this would be a relatable set of circumstances. Plus, factor in those who marry earlier than average and/or under age pregnancy.

Plus, do you have to be a father to imagine what life would be like if you had a kid? I could picture it, and picturing it makes me NOT want to do it (at least not at this point in my life). No less, that would be a relatable set of circumstances even to someone like me.

 

[farmernudie]

These are just some of my initial (and humble) opinions, weighing in on a lot of stuff here.....sorry so long! LOL

An ADULT in Peter's situation would make the decision that a child would be an unneeded burden, and as parents it would be irresponsible to place a child in the midst of danger since their first child WAS KILLED by an enemy, his girlfirend was killed by an enemy, as well as Aunt May having recently been shot.

Probably true. .....And yet, despite this, they (marvel big wigs) "wrote" Peter into an unmasking scenario (which was/is very forced) with the sole goal to drum up a big event and get free publicicty thru doing so in every major news market at the time. So why start caring about this image of Pete's responsibility now in relation to having a wife and kid but not in the other same scenario?? (a rhetorical question to Joey Q. on being hypocritical)

The unmasking could be imagined by us (putting others in harms way), but the problem with that (as you and I agree) is Peter wouldn't do it.

Exactly. Very out of character when you look at the past, and it has NEVER even been an OPTION for Pete. Never. And he's been in many more "Dire' situations than this one where he stood his ground (longer) and always found a way around it.

This "progression" being mentioned has only occurred 4 times over 45 years:

1. Graduating High School
2.Graduating College
3.Getting Married
4. Having a child

Well....there has been lots of other natural progressions of "life" ...really besides those 4....too numberous to mention....but all things people go thru in the natural progression of life that Peter too has...

but...to list just a few...

1. Getting a Job.
2. Getting to drive (getting a car/bike/spidey mobile (ha)..etc..)
3. Dealing with Death(s) of loved ones...
4. Helping/teaching kids after realizing he has been there/done that/gone thru what they have and can relate...
5. Paying Bills...meeting responsibilities
6. Learning from a a marriage and juggling everything related to that change

Etc....

Cutting off the marriage, (while some people CAN relate to "divorce")....only ages Peter more.

It also sends a message to the reader..that Peter (by their rules) can never have a relationship-that they cannnot make it work. Thus, diminishing any future surrounding cast even more, because they cannot tred into "dating territory", unless they do it superficially with no real purpose of progression.

Or they can write him out of character and make him into a socialite like Batman/Iron Man who doesn't give a fig about the ladies but will date them by the busshels (here and there in a superfiscial) panel or two.

However, that is NOT Peter...he is the kinda of guy that loves a woman dearly...an "everyman". Look at how he loved Gwen. Look at how he loved(loves) MJ. They just go together like peanut butter and jelly.

He is the kinda guy that wants to be married and love someone.

He deserves it. A good marriage.

Pete IS the kinda guy that COULD have family....someday.....although, yeh, it would put them in harms way.

But still, i could see him being an "uncle ben type" someday to his own extended family. Pete's a good guy.

Sure he needs to be down on his luck occasionally....but marriage isn't all roses. Most likely, moving into Avengers mansion was a easy route and not a good way to go in that regard.

 

[DACrowe]

Look what makes Spider-Man stand out is that he does grow though. He is the only major superhero who has changed so much in the decades and has grown up. All comics maintain the formulaic elements but Spider-Man does change as opposed to many other superheroes who never really change.

Him going backwards betrays his rich history.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

Well said. KLH gets too much praise, simply because many fans think 'dark and violent' means 'mature and quality'. Lowbrow conceit.

Taking it off-topic for a second, I've got to say that I completely agree here.

I feel the same way about the "Sin-Eater/Death of Jean DeWolfe" story.

 

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

I agree with the marriage thing. I would hate to see a Peter Parker that's still single and not having a support infastructure like the one he has right now. Some of you say that he had that with Aunt May but just like in real life, you can't tell everything to your "mom" (Aunt in Pete's case).

There are things I've told my fiancee that my mom has no idea about. That's because there are certain things that you can only tell someone you are THAT close to like Pete is to MJ. She's the only one he can be brutally honest to and knows that she'll try to be strong for him and support him in whatever he does. Although Aunt May is actually becoming like that as well, it still doesn't replace the type of relationship a man has with a woman he loves like his wife.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

the best Spidey Comics was in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and early 90's. I have read all the issues from the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's and they were better than they are today (the Clone Saga was stupid though). I mean Gwen and Norman having Sex would never have happened in the 60's or 70's. The Comics back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and early 90's were great because their dtories had such impact and featured the greatest Villians while today those Villians aren't used as much and alot of things have changed in the Comics since then. that is one of the reasons I loved the Comics back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and early 90's.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What they are doing to him now is exactly why I am sticking to my back issues, essentials, and graphic novels of classic stories. I don't buy any new comics, and won't until they start understanding their own characters once again, and stop the shock crap.

 

[farmernudie]

I think a lot of us fans want more substance and less shock (cheap short term thrills kind).

Fact is, the (supposed) death or mindwipe of MJ is just another big event, that all ready has a name for it, and everything. "One More Day."

"The Other"

"Sins Past"

etc.

>ick<

At first i kinda liked these "arcs" things....new artist, new writer, new this and that....but it's all (comics-not just spidey) kinda turned into "big EVENTS" and "mini EVENTS"

...now that i think about...i am really missing the old days more and more...when you got a year of just "issues" with ongoing story, ongoing casts, and ongoing (prorated) progression with respect to continuity and the fan.

Please, someone at Marvel,... put the train back ON the track. And let's not drive it in endless circles either.

A big bottle of white-out doesn't make a story.

 

[antonydelfini]

I think a lot of us fans want more substance and less shock (cheap short term thrills kind).

Fact is, the (supposed) death or mindwipe of MJ is just another big event, that all ready has a name for it, and everything. "One More Day."

"The Other"

"Sins Past"

etc.

>ick<

At first i kinda liked these "arcs" things....new artist, new writer, new this and that....but it's all (comics-not just spidey) kinda turned into "big EVENTS" and "mini EVENTS"

...now that i think about...i am really missing the old days more and more...when you got a year of just "issues" with ongoing story, ongoing casts, and ongoing (prorated) progression with respect to continuity and the fan.

Please, someone at Marvel,... put the train back ON the track. And let's not drive it in endless circles either.

A big bottle of white-out doesn't make a story.

Well I think after One More Day, we'll get our old Spidey back. I think that is the purpose of One More Day, to end all the suckiness and bring back the good old days. Although i hope that bringing back the good old days does not mean ending the marriage.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

It's the "shock of the week" tactics that have reppelled readers... It's like we're having the '90s all over again... now we need that DC spouts this kind of crap too, and Humberto Ramos creating his own comic book company... and a sex scandal on the white house... We've got the gulf war and power rangers already...