Justice League: self contained continuity, or epic crossover?

[Timstuff]

OK, I've been thinking... Last time we heard about a Justice League movie, it was going to be a self-contained continuity that had no connections to any movies outside of itself. HOWEVER, now that Marvel is moving ahead with the Avengers movie connecting the dots between the Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor movies, what if Warner Bros. chose to do the same for Justice League? In all likeliness, by the time they make it happen, Nolan's Batman trilogy will probably already be out, Superman will have been "reintroduced," Green Lantern will have had his own movie, and there will probably be Wonder Woman and Flash movies on the table again-- or hopefully, in production.

So really, why introduce us to a separate and new continuity for Justice League, when we'll already have already gotten origin stories for all of its charter members? Unlike Marvel, DC has the advantage of all of its characters being under one studio's umbrella, which means that the scale of a crossover can potentially be much bigger. Would it really be so bad for there to be a movie where all the other DC movieverses come together to form one coherent universe? It's true that Nolan's Batman is "realistic" and makes no mention of other mystery men, but at the same time it doesn't rule them out. I don't think that Nolan's version of Batman being part of a larger DC Movie Universe would take away anything from Nolan's films, nor would it disallow people from enjoying them as a single work of film. The same can be said of any DC property that comes to the silver screen, really.

Well, that's all I've got to say for now. I think it'd be really cool if there was an actual "DC Movie Universe" across all of their films rather than having one that's exclusive to the Justice League movie. If you don't like the idea of Nolan's Batman co-existing with The Green Lantern and Superman, you can just as easily ignore the JL movie, but for the people who want to enjoy it all as a coherent universe, it's there. What do you think?

 

[Wiseman]

Mark my words, there will never be a Justice League movie

 

[Timstuff]

Why would I mark your words? If they announce one 50 years from now, do you think I'm going to dig up this thread?

 

[biolumen]

I'd rather see it as a seperate continuity from the solo movies, in much the same way as I want all the solo movies to be allowed to freely explore their own worlds and styles without having to be constrained in any way for the purpose of maintaining some undefined Grand Continuity. I'm not saying it can't be done like Marvel. Perhaps it could with wild success. I'd just prefer that they go the other route. It would make for more variety and diversity.

Clearly I'm not one of those who believes everything should to be tied together.

 

[The Guard]

There's no reason to tie every single movie together. Marvel's approach works because there's a team of government surveilled superhumans being recruited to be The Avengers. WB pulling that with Justice League would be something of a ripoff. There's no reason the characters can't have solo films, and then have some incarnation of the JLA, with the understanding that all the previous adventures seen in solo films happened in some fashion, regardless of whether the actors are the same or not. And there's nothing to say that a JLA film couldn't work, with solo films then being made to show the earlier career of the heroes if its characters are popular with audiences.

 

[Timstuff]

I'm not saying that Warner Bros. has to rip off Marvel's approach totally... We don't need to have any foreshadowing of a Justice League movie in the solo films or blatant references to other heroes (or at least not on the level of Marvel's Avengers). I'm just saying that rather than have the Justice League movie shed any ties it may have to the previous solo films, it should use them as its back story, rather than trying to create a new universe that is not tied in any way to the solo films. I imagine Christian Bale will be hanging up his Batman cape after Batman 3, but that doesn't mean they have to throw out the continuity of the Begins-verse. On the flipside though, I do think it would be great if the actor playing Batman in Justice League was also able to reprise his role in a fourth solo Batman film at some point, and I'd be hopeful that they could get most of the other DC hero actors we're likely to see to appear both in solo films and Justice League.

Seeing the heroes from multiple solo films teaming up in one movie would get way more attention than if they just made a new universe separate from the solo films, and it would get people much more excited. That doesn't mean that Justice League should or will directly affect the heroes' solo films, but I think that the solo films should definitely affect the Justice League movie.

 

[Wiseman]

Why would I mark your words? If they announce one 50 years from now, do you think I'm going to dig up this thread?

yes

 

[The Guard]

I imagine Christian Bale will be hanging up his Batman cape after Batman 3, but that doesn't mean they have to throw out the continuity of the Begins-verse. On the flipside though, I do think it would be great if the actor playing Batman in Justice League was also able to reprise his role in a fourth solo Batman film at some point, and I'd be hopeful that they could get most of the other DC hero actors we're likely to see to appear both in solo films and Justice League.

This is what I don't understand. Why would people be so worried about the continuity of the BEGINS universe being altered or thrown out?

The easy answer, and the most logical and rational one, is just to make a JLA film that stands on its own that doesn't discount any of the other superhero movies.

I.E, you simply don't have a character say something to Batman like "Hey, remember how you never had a girlfriend named Rachel Dawes and how Christian Bale played you in your earlier adventures"?

See what I'm getting at?

What other connections do we really need to see from the Nolan franchise, exactly, by the time Batman becomes a member of the JLA? What could the JLA film possibly show that would invalidate the Nolan films or upset their continuity, if it's not directly about Batman and his origins, and his villains?

I guess I'd need more specifics here, because I really don't see the concern people have about this "continuity" stuff. Even if the JLA movie doesn't directly reference any of the solo superhero films, the mere fact that it doesn't do so would allow those movies to be considered part of its continuity if audiences so choose. Or not. It's irrelevant, because it's a JLA movie, not a movie about one particular character.

And I suppose it depends on what you mean by using previous films as a backstory. Personally, to me, if a JL film mentions Batman trained to become a capable fighter for whatever reason, I could care less whether he trained with many masters or with Ra's Al Ghul, because again, it's irrelevant in the context of a JLA film.

If Talia Al Ghul shows up wanting revenge for the death of her father in BEGINS, a la the earlier project, am I going to complain? No, because it's established part of both movie and comic book lore, ties in well to Batman as a character, and Talia is an acceptable JLA villain, if not the best choice.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Nolan's universe doesn't discount other superheroes.

They just haven't appeared yet.

Nolan's Batman stands alone in the films as the FIRST.



As far as Bale's availability, with T4 possibly not being the success WB wanted... Bale's scheduling may be opening up further.


But I GUARANTEE WB will be at least talking JLA when Marvel's Avengers hype begins to hit...

...Just like how WB launched Green Lantern in the hopes of it being DC's Iron Man.

 

[Timstuff]

You make a good point that Nolan's Batman is established as the first hero in a hypothetical DC Movie Universe, but doesn't rule out the possibility of other heroes existing.

The big thing for me is that they do not deliberately establish it as being a different continuity from the other DC films, and try and keep it consistent with the continuity of the films that have come before it. People can either enjoy Justice League as its own unique film with a self contained story, or as the centerpiece of the DC Movie Universe that binds the other films together. And if they were to get the actors for Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash, Superman, and maybe, just possibly Christian Bale as Batman (however unlikely), then that would truly seal the deal for me.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Based on what I've heard, Bale is WB's secret weapon right now. They're under the impression that Bale (in anything) = profit.

I have a strong feeling they'll renegociate their contract with him (for Batman) for more films...

Just as Fox is keeping Jackman onboard as Wolverine..

Just as Sony is keeping Tobey Mcguire onboard as Spider-man..


It's the same situation.. but in WB's case; it's a billion dollar franchaise (the biggest one). Alot more is at stake.

 

[dnno1]

Mark my words, there will never be a Justice League movie

Well, Jessica Biel recently expressed interest in playing Wonder Woman if they ever do the film. I understand that it it still in development, but it may just not be ready or just not the time to produce it.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

A separate continuity simplifies things. Now, if Warner was Marvel, I would say "go ahead and tie it all up together". But Warner is not Marvel. They're method of operations is different, and setting up different movies in a single story is complicated stuff. I'd rather have a focused Justice League movie. As I stated many times before: A characters origin would not be highly important if it's a JL story.

Then again I don't particularly love Routh, Welling or Bale, so maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule.

 

[jmc]

Separate continuities. Each character should have it's own canvas to build it's story/franchise on, their own unique films, JL can work on it's own. The argument that just coz Nolan's Batman doesn't mention other superheroes does mean they don't exist is flawed. You could just as easily say something similar to any film, Dirty Harry doesn't mention it, but that's not to say killer robots don't exists in the same universe. Nolan didn't make a DC universe, he made a Batman universe, and I'm hoping Campbell does the same with GL, give him his own playground to work in, simply dismissing past events and having all these different characters from different types of films and genres appear together is going to complicate things, the easiest solution is to give JL a separate series. There's too much emphasis from DC fans on what Marvel are doing, really who gives a flying hoot what they do? I'd rather the DC characters emerge organically and not be forced into being on screen simply because that's the date set for them to appear.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I'd rather they have one version of each character; as opposed to multiples.

That was part of the reason why JL:M recevied alot of interal flack at Warners; TPTB didn't want a second Batman running around in JL while Bale's Batman was in the Nolan films.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I hope they never make a JL film. It's a silly concept for punching large than life villains. Most of the enemies could conceivably be handled by one or two of any of the the big seven.

 

[dnno1]

A separate continuity simplifies things. Now, if Warner was Marvel, I would say "go ahead and tie it all up together". But Warner is not Marvel. They're method of operations is different, and setting up different movies in a single story is complicated stuff. I'd rather have a focused Justice League movie. As I stated many times before: A characters origin would not be highly important if it's a JL story.

Then again I don't particularly love Routh, Welling or Bale, so maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule.

What they really need to do is a motion picture rendition of "Crisis on Infinite Earths". That way they could use that as a plot device to merge the worlds of Batman, Superman and the other DC characters into a single universe and then make follow on films within the same continuity. Both "Crisis" and "Infinite Crisis" are epic tales which actually have merit to be films.

 

[3dman27]

self contained continuity

 

[04nbod]

I don't think they'll do it but I think 'Justice' is the best Justice League book ever made. Its not about elite, its about everyone for the common good whether they be from The Titans, Doom Patrol or Legion. That should be the aim of Warner, not just manouvring 7 actors. They can do that and blow the Avengers out of the water.

 

[MadVillainy]

Definite same continuity, I dont see a reason why you wouldnt set it up that way
About the whole Nolan Batman thing Nolan said his Batman doesnt fit with other heroes which is a dick move on his part. JL film should be after the last (possibly next) Batman film.
But if in same continuity NO cheap after credits scene just little winks and nods at the audience. PPl could be reading articles of other heroes exploits in different films

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

The thing is...

Batman III WON'T be the last Batman film.

If Warners continued a much less successful 90s Bat franchaise beyond three films, they'll definitely continue this one.

 

[Wally West]

hmmm.....Who knows. WB is such a mystery to me. Poor Marvel sold the rights to half thier characters to other studios, and is kicking itself wishing it could somehow have them back. WB on the other hand holds the right to every DC character and they've sat on thier collective ***es this decade.

And when they have decided to do anything in the main DC universe other than Batman or Superman they've given us Catwoman. Catwoman. Instead of Wonder Woman?

At least we're getting a GL film.

I love the idea of continuity extending into seperate franchises, so that's the type of JL film I'd like to see. But I certainly can't speculate on what WB might actually do, because common sense doesn't seem to factor into thier thought process.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

The way I see it, there are two ways to do a Justice League movie:

1. An epic crossover using the same (or most of the same) actors, and all of the continuities of the solo DC superhero movies. Due to WB's huge mistake of allowing Singer to use Donner's old continuity (which confused and didn't connect with audiences), this is now an extreme long shot. Not only will WW, GL, and Flash movies have to be made, but Superman needs to be properly rebooted first.

2. A semi-sequel to the solo movies made after all their sequels/trilogies are done, with different actors but no overt continuity divergences. This Justice League movie doesn't necessarily have to be in the same continuity as the solo movies, but it could be. It wouldn't step on anything established in earlier movies, but it would rely on the familiarity and audience support created by the solo films. Kind of like how Schumacher's Batman movies relied on Burton's movies without any real connections (without the crappiness of the Schumacher movies, of course).

The direction that the WB almost took, with a tweeny-bopper newbie cast playing characters who held no context with the audience, that would have clashed with what Nolan would have been doing simultaneously in his own Batman movies, would have been the worse way to do it. Thank God that didn't happen.

 

[jmc]

About the whole Nolan Batman thing Nolan said his Batman doesnt fit with other heroes which is a dick move on his part. JL film should be after the last (possibly next) Batman film.

How is Nolan a dick for saying that? His goal was to make a grounded universe for Batman, not for every DC character, just coz it's not fit for other DC character doesn't make him a dick, that's the story he wanted to tell, Batman and Batman only. I really don't like this angst against Nolan for his decision to focus on just the one character, it comes across as nothing more than DC fanboy whining.

 

[Webhead2006]

With all the waiting and non development for certain characters a self contained film would likely be the only way we could have a jl film out now.