Justice League: self contained continuity, or epic crossover?

[Evil Twin]

I think there also needs to be a realization about what Marvel is actually doing. They certainly are not tieing together 7 different franchises. Arguably not even 5 since all that may come from The Incredible Hulk is a CGI Hulk and Nick Fury is a supporting character.

And, honestly, I'm not really sure if The Avengers will be any good. Or have a point other than "wouldn't it be cool?" Great, you do an Avengers film, and ??? I can't see most of the cast coming back for a sequel, certainly Robert Downey Jr. seems like he'll have plenty of options and fresh roles to play. And once you do the Avengers, how do the solo sequels compete in scale? Is it an integral part of a continuing movie strategy or a capstone?

 

[cerealkiller182]

single universe is my preferred option. It might not happen with the most recent wave logistically

 

[Webhead2006]

its all about the writing.

 

[TheWatcher]

Epic Crossover!

 

[BestGirl]

Ideally an epic crossover, but since that would probably be too hard to pull off I want a self-contained continuity with the possibility of the heroes getting individual movies later on.

 

[Webhead2006]

it does make you wonder how things would have been for wb/dc if jlm happened. we would have then finally had flash/ww/aquaman on the screen in live action form in big screen advance if if it went well we could have then done solo films and all that. which was their original plans i believe. but in the end i was happy with jlm falling apart there was just to many things i didnt like from the production that we knew of.

 

[Timstuff]

We don't know what WB's plans are for Flash, Wonder Woman, and Superman yet, and they are currently the missing gears in the Justice League machine. I think it really all comes down to when Batman 3's release date is and when the Superman copyright suit gets resolved. Also, Warner Bros. probably doesn't want to prematurely announce the Flash and Wonder Woman movies since they don't want them conflicting with Batman 3's release date. It might take a while, but personally I think it will be worth the wait if Warner Bros. is serious about doing this.

2011: Green Lantern
2012: Batman 3 and Wonder Woman
2013: Superman and The Flash
2014: Justice League
Of course that's an extremely optimistic estimate, since it's highly unlikely that Warner Bros. is going to release two tentpole SH flick a year (especially since they're not even up to one a year yet). Still, I think it's possible that we could see a Justice League movie by 2015 if all the chips fall into place.

 

[Webhead2006]

oh yea that would be a nice lineup but i see it more going gl 2011, batman 3 2012, then flash/ww between 2013/2014, and then superman i am betting we wouldnt have anything in production to like 2014 so around 2015 for supes. Though hopefully it will be sooner. But yea they probably want to get batman signed to a date before they move on for flash/ww and etc.... characters.
Plus it looks more likely they would do one tentpole character a year with mixture of one/two smaller guys films probably from vertigo/etc side titles.

 

[BestGirl]

We don't know what WB's plans are for Flash, Wonder Woman, and Superman yet, and they are currently the missing gears in the Justice League machine. I think it really all comes down to when Batman 3's release date is and when the Superman copyright suit gets resolved. Also, Warner Bros. probably doesn't want to prematurely announce the Flash and Wonder Woman movies since they don't want them conflicting with Batman 3's release date. It might take a while, but personally I think it will be worth the wait if Warner Bros. is serious about doing this.

2011: Green Lantern
2012: Batman 3 and Wonder Woman
2013: Superman and The Flash
2014: Justice League
Of course that's an extremely optimistic estimate, since it's highly unlikely that Warner Bros. is going to release two tentpole SH flick a year (especially since they're not even up to one a year yet). Still, I think it's possible that we could see a Justice League movie by 2015 if all the chips fall into place.

I would kill for this kind of schedule.

 

[Webhead2006]

i think we all would. Though all we got right now is 2010 hex/losers. 2011 green lantern. Then 2012+ no freakin clue what will happen. Will flash, shazam, ww, aquaman, get a film. Then when will nolan's 3rd batflick fall. Then is superman ever going to grace the silver screen again within the next 5+ yrs?

 

[TheVileOne]

The JLM idea was stupid and made no sense. They wanted that to be their starting point for solo films. And yet they wanted a JL movie with JOHN STEWART and BARRY ALLEN and then make solo films with hal Jordan and Walley West? Absolutely moronic and ridiculous.

 

[Webhead2006]

no if jlm happened then john stewart likely would have been solo film green lantern, and barry allen in jlm was due to die so it would have made sense then wally being flash and getting solo film. But now things are different. They want to do solo films now. Hal gets to start out as first motion picture green lantern, flash if it happens is likely going to be barry since he is back in the comics and they would likely want to start off with them. Then we have to see if/when any ww or aquaman films happen any time soon.

 

[The Guard]

I don't see why the GREEN LANTERN movie still couldn't have featured Hal Jordan, or Kyle Rayner, or a number of other GLs if John Stewart was in JLA. Far as I know, that was indeed the plan. Ditto The Flash, as both Barry AND Wally were to be in JLA.

John Stewart's presence in JUSTICE LEAGUE would just have introduced the concept of the Green Lanterns to general audiences. The Green Lantern in the solo film could easily still have been Hal, just as Hal was the GL in WB's movie FIRST FLIGHT despite John Stewart being the featured GL in the JL animated series which people knew better.

 

[Webhead2006]

we will likely not know how things would have gone if jlm happened and if it was to be a hit or not.

 

[Fresh Prince]

I want a Flash movie dammit!

 

[MadVillainy]

I would prefer a DC UNIVERSE

also Timstuff: I as well would kill for that kind of schedule

 

[Webhead2006]

the main problem is the wb execs not knowing how they want to take these characters, and then them just sitting in developmental hell for who knows when. Take ww for example it has gone through multi writers/directors and what did joel silver have to show for it in the past what 10-15 yrs squat. Thankfully though with dce taking away film rights from producers not doing anything with a project. Hopefully now they can get folks who can actually get things moving for these guys. It sucks we didnt have any flashs/gls/ww/etc..... this past decade. They could all have been very possible and look great.

 

[TheVileOne]

no if jlm happened then john stewart likely would have been solo film green lantern, and barry allen in jlm was due to die so it would have made sense then wally being flash and getting solo film. But now things are different. They want to do solo films now. Hal gets to start out as first motion picture green lantern, flash if it happens is likely going to be barry since he is back in the comics and they would likely want to start off with them. Then we have to see if/when any ww or aquaman films happen any time soon.

Wrong. The GL solo film that was being developed around the same time was developed as a HAL JORDAN vehicle. Not John Stewart.

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think WB is making any long term plans right now. They are doing this movie by movie.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly. It was widely known that WB wanted Jordan in their GL film.

 

[Evil Twin]

Honestly, I think 5 franchises is just too much to bring together in a crossover. And the timing will never quite work out. That's one of the good things about John Stewart, you don't have to really mesh him with what's going on in the GL franchise while still being linked to it.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I don't see why the GREEN LANTERN movie still couldn't have featured Hal Jordan, or Kyle Rayner, or a number of other GLs if John Stewart was in JLA. Far as I know, that was indeed the plan. Ditto The Flash, as both Barry AND Wally were to be in JLA.

John Stewart's presence in JUSTICE LEAGUE would just have introduced the concept of the Green Lanterns to general audiences. The Green Lantern in the solo film could easily still have been Hal, just as Hal was the GL in WB's movie FIRST FLIGHT despite John Stewart being the featured GL in the JL animated series which people knew better.

Putting out movies with two completely different characters using the same superhero name will confuse people and turn them away. People who liked John Stewart from JLM would be turned off by Hal Jordan in the solo movie. There could be accusations of racism from ignorant casual moviegoers ("What, a black man can't get his own superhero movie?"). Meanwhile, the GL solo movie with Hal Jordan would get little to no boost from JLM, even though one of the stated objectives of JLM was to help launch solo films. The character would still have to be introduced from the start to audiences. It's almost as stupid as putting out a competing version of Batman to go up against Nolan's (Armie Hammer would've inevitably been compared to Bale).

First Flight proves nothing. Justice League was a cable show shuffled around some horrible time slots, that leaned less toward the typical Cartoon Network kiddie audience and more toward teenage and adult fanboys (who grew up on B:TAS and the comics themselves). GL:FF had the same executive producer and that's it. It came out literally YEARS after the series ended, was unambiguous about being its own continuity, and went straight to DVD with a modest target audience of fanboys. There were less people to confuse because the audiences for all of these products were relatively small, and were much better informed about the characters to begin with. That's not the same as big budget summer blockbusters targeted toward everyone.

There is a difference between showing the breadth of Green Lantern Corps, and expecting the mainstream audience to accept two completely different characters as their main hero.

 

[The Guard]

Putting out movies with two completely different characters using the same superhero name will confuse people and turn them away.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. It might confuse stupid people. And who cares? Damn near everything confuses stupid people.

People who liked John Stewart from JLM would be turned off by Hal Jordan in the solo movie.

Umm...why?

Comic book fans weren't "turned off" when John Stewart took over Hal and Kyle and Guy's JLA spot for a while during the cartoon.

There could be accusations of racism from ignorant casual moviegoers ("What, a black man can't get his own superhero movie?").

Umm...again...who cares about such people and their petty, ignorance-based issues?

Meanwhile, the GL solo movie with Hal Jordan would get little to no boost from JLM, even though one of the stated objectives of JLM was to help launch solo films.

Prove it. Or do you think audiences would only go see a kickass Power Ring wielding hero because he's black?

The character would still have to be introduced from the start to audiences.

Uh...yes...most characters do.

It's almost as stupid as putting out a competing version of Batman to go up against Nolan's (Armie Hammer would've inevitably been compared to Bale).

"Competing"?

Again. So what? Every actor who plays a role is compared to other actors who have played the roles.

Even now Bale's voice gets compared to Conroy's, etc, etc, etc.

First Flight proves nothing. Justice League was a cable show shuffled around some horrible time slots, that leaned less toward the typical Cartoon Network kiddie audience and more toward teenage and adult fanboys (who grew up on B:TAS and the comics themselves).

And yet...it did find a broader audience, and was pretty darn popular.

Or do you think TEEN TITANS, THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, THE BATMAN having JLA elements and DC DTV movies kicking up a notch in recent years are just coincidences?

GL:FF had the same executive producer and that's it. It came out literally YEARS after the series ended, was unambiguous about being its own continuity, and went straight to DVD with a modest target audience of fanboys.

Allow me to retort:

The comics have essentially proved that multiple Green Lanterns can exist and be accepted for decades now. You don't have to be a die-hard fan to understand the concept of a GL Corps, or even that smart.

There were less people to confuse because the audiences for all of these products were relatively small, and were much better informed about the characters to begin with. That's not the same as big budget summer blockbusters targeted toward everyone.

There is a difference between showing the breadth of Green Lantern Corps, and expecting the mainstream audience to accept two completely different characters as their main hero.

Because lord knows, people haven't accepted a variety of heroes from film to film for years. Oh no...one is in a movie called JUSTICE LEAGUE, and one is in a movie called GREEN LANTERN. How...how will we ever keep them straight???

You're kidding, right?

Comic book fans have figured it out instantly for years. Casual fans have figured it out instantly for years. I could care less about people who are just ignorant or wouldn't understand a simple concept anyway.

 

[TheVileOne]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. It might confuse stupid people. And who cares? Damn near everything confuses stupid people.

You are comparing animated shows with smaller audiences to big budget live action tentpoles. It's invalid and irrelevant.

Umm...why?

If a JLM movie is made a resounding success, people have invested in John Stewart as a character and that character. And then suddenly you turn around and say, the spinoff is another character? People will claim its racist and it makes no sense if you've made a JLM movie starring John Stewart that suddenly you don't want him to support his own movie.

Comic book fans weren't "turned off" when John Stewart took over Hal and Kyle and Guy's JLA spot for a while during the cartoon.

Comic fans are not the target audience of these movies though. The crossover audience between comics and moviegoers is miniscule at best. The only GL in the cartoon was John Stewart. Hal was in an AU cameo. There was no Guy. Kyle only appeared once in STAS and as an earthling GL on OA after Stewart was well established.

Umm...again...who cares about such people and their petty, ignorance-based issues?

Movie studios and executives that want those peoples' money.

Prove it. Or do you think audiences would only go see a kickass Power Ring wielding hero because he's black?

It doesn't make sense. If Justice League is the starting point to establish solo films of these characters, why are you eliminating the main character you are setting up from Justice League to suddenly focus on a totally different character?

Prove what? Well in Iron Man, what made the movie for audiences was Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark. So suddenly are you going to do a sequel starring only Jim Rhodes as Iron Man or only feature Jim Rhodes Iron Man in a ****ing Avengers movie?
Uh...yes...most characters do.

"Competing"?

Again. So what? Every actor who plays a role is compared to other actors who have played the roles.

Even now Bale's voice gets compared to Conroy's, etc, etc, etc.

Exactly, which makes it ridiculous to make two live action Batman movies at the same time. Its ridiculous.

And yet...it did find a broader audience, and was pretty darn popular.

Sure its popular, but its still a drop in the bucket in comparison to how tentpole movies would have to perform.

Or do you think TEEN TITANS, THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, THE BATMAN having JLA elements and DC DTV movies kicking up a notch in recent years are just coincidences?

I'm not sure what your point is. JL in The Batman which has been off the air for years now featured Hal Jordan.

The comics have essentially proved that multiple Green Lanterns can exist and be accepted for decades now. You don't have to be a die-hard fan to understand the concept of a GL Corps, or even that smart.

Once again, the comics audience is miniscule as a crossover audience for the movies. It doesn't work the same way in the movies.

In the comics, the main GL of earth now is Hal Jordan. He's the Green Lantern featured generally in the pages of JL and Green Lantern. John Stewart is now a supporting player. The main GL's of the Corp. are Guy and Kyle who are no longer on earth.

Also Guard, what you fail to realize is that they are developing a GL solo film now with JUST ****ING HAL JORDAN. It's Hal Jordan being inducted into the Corp. They aren't doing John Stewart. They aren't doing any other characters right now. They are starting with Hal because hal is clearly the most popular character and Hal is the jumping on character for the GL series. Its not to say you can't establish these characters later. But ultimately it was decided to not be feasible to start with John Stewart and suddenly go to a Hal Jordan solo film for a spinoff. It doesn't make ****ing sense.

Because lord knows, people haven't accepted a variety of heroes from film to film for years. Oh no...one is in a movie called JUSTICE LEAGUE, and one is in a movie called GREEN LANTERN. How...how will we ever keep them straight???

You're kidding, right?

Comic book fans have figured it out instantly for years. Casual fans have figured it out instantly for years. I could care less about people who are just ignorant or wouldn't understand a simple concept anyway.

Well they aren't doing it the way you want. So tough noogies. Ultimately your argument lost in the end.

 

[The Guard]

So let me get this straight. Since we can't use comic fans enjoyment or understanding to gauge interest in a multi-GL approach, then your contention is that the same kinds of "storytelling elements" that wow comic book fans are not shared by general audiences? That comic book fans are such a nice in the population that the material they enjoy is so unique and difficult to grasp that it would never translate to general audiences? And that the success of the source material in comic book form is apparently not valid enough to translate to film?

I fail to see how investing in John Stewart AND Hal Jordan is a bad thing. What, can people get attached to only one member of the GL Corps?

I am iffy on how any of my statements indicate that I fail to realize there's a big budget version of GREEN LANTERN featuring Hal Jordan being developed.

It's interesting. I don't think you addressed half my points. You just went off on tangent after tangent, and "quantifying" things. There's a market for DC heroes beyond the comic book fans, or those projects wouldn't exist. There's a market for superheroes, too, or we wouldn't see so many superhero adaptions.

Things are apparently just ridiculous or racist..."because" in your world. That's just precious.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. It might confuse stupid people. And who cares? Damn near everything confuses stupid people.

Yeah "stupid people." Because a non-comic fan (99% of a blockbuster movie's audience) is "stupid" for thinking what the hell is going on when the movies use completely different people as Green Lantern.

You just like to call people stupid to dismiss criticism of the WB's flawed approach, which even the WB itself stepped away from.

Umm...why?

Does this need to be explained? I said it right there in my PREVIOUS post. If you're invested in John Stewart (who will be YOUR Green Lantern if you see him first in a movie), then a movie about some other guy won't appeal as much to you.

Comic book fans weren't "turned off" when John Stewart took over Hal and Kyle and Guy's JLA spot for a while during the cartoon.

Now you're just making crap up. PLENTY of fans complained about John Stewart being used on the cartoon instead of the more iconic Hal Jordan. People even complained about the lack of freaking Aquaman, who was ditched in favor of Hawkgirl who was never as important a character in the comics. Lots of people said it was the show being "politically correct."

Of course it wasn't EVERYBODY, and the show kept fanboy viewers by just being damn good. However the complaints were there.

Umm...again...who cares about such people and their petty, ignorance-based issues?

Stop asking questions you should know the answers to already. A better question is "who cares about the fanboys?" Because these movies are made for the average person, with the intention of making profits, not for fanboys.

Actually, even that isn't a good question. Most fanboys also thought JLM was just a plain ******ed idea based on everything they had heard.

Prove it. Or do you think audiences would only go see a kickass Power Ring wielding hero because he's black?

It's proven every time someone says they're a fan of a specific character or actor and will watch whatever they're in. This goes back to the original point. Maybe they should have just recasted Batman in TDK, since banking on a popular actor/interpretation is such an "unproven" strategy. If you're making JLM as a lead-in for the solo movies, then why the hell are you not making solo movies with the same characters?

And yet...it did find a broader audience, and was pretty darn popular.

"Pretty darn popular." Define that please, if you can.

Cable ratings are peanuts compared to primetime network broadcasts. It's been a while since I've picked up an Entertainment Weekly, but a few years ago WWE was listed as the most popular show on cable (and is probably still one of cable's leaders). WWE had an audience of 3-5 million. Those kind of ratings would get a show CANCELLED, and people fired, if it were on network prime time. 3-5 million is nothing. And I seriously doubt Justice League, aimed at a niche fanboy audience with an inconsistent time slot on a cable channel for kids, got anywhere near that many people watching.

I loved the JL series. I would still never fool myself into thinking it was widely watched.

Allow me to retort:

The comics have essentially proved that multiple Green Lanterns can exist and be accepted for decades now.

The comics are an even smaller stage than cable TV. The best selling comics, the BEST, sold about a couple hundred thousand copies per issue for the last couple decades. A "popular" comic book is read by an audience the size of what any random, horrible, late-night B-movie on the Syfy channel could pull.

Once again you talk with utter certainty while being ill-prepared to logically debate things.

You don't have to be a die-hard fan to understand the concept of a GL Corps, or even that smart.

It's not about understanding the GL Corps so much as "this isn't the guy I watched in the movie, what the hell." Is it REALLY hard for you to understand that popular actors are brought back for sequels/spinoffs specifically to cash in?