Justice League: self contained continuity, or epic crossover?

[BH/HHH]

The only example I can think of of two actors play the same character at around the same time is Sean Connery and Roger Moore playing James Bond in the 1983 films Never Say Never Again and Octopussy respectively, and both were reasonably successful movies. Just something to think about.

I'm not a fan of Bond so I'm not entirely sure of the history of those movies but was Never Say Never Again an actual Bond movie in terms of continuity and featuring the theme etc?

 

[theMan-Bat]

No, Connery's Never Say Never Again was not by EON Productions, it did not contain the classic Bond opening and theme, it was not an official part of the Bond film franchise.

 

[jmc]

I'm not a fan of Bond so I'm not entirely sure of the history of those movies but was Never Say Never Again an actual Bond movie in terms of continuity and featuring the theme etc?

No it wasn't, but the point was that people just accepted there were two Bond films released in the same year, and both were watched. It's the closest example to the situation that is being discussed at the moment with JL.

 

[BH/HHH]

No, Connery's Never Say Never Again was not by EON Productions, it did not contain the classic Bond opening and theme, it was not an official part of the Bond film franchise.

Ah thanks, do they put Never Say Never Again in Bond boxsest?

No it wasn't, but the point was that people just accepted there were two Bond films released in the same year, and both were watched. It's the closest example to the situation that is being discussed at the moment with JL.

Thanks again, that is really interesting and I guess looking back at that maybe it could work.

 

[jmc]

Never Say Never again is now in the hands of EON productions, like the 1960's version of Casino Royale staring Peter Sellers, but neither are presented in any of the box sets, I think they are classified as unofficial Bond films.

 

[MadVillainy]

You know what I just remembered? Angela Basset is Amanda Waller in GL. I would be surprised if they added her and not taken into consideration what that could mean for a potential JL movie

 

[Godzilla2014]

I have to say that I am not interested in a shared universe if it will only be shared for crossovers and cameos in each other's movies. I think the common universe concept could be cool if our hero's respective cities were interconnected like real cities are. For example, if there were terrorist attack in Metropolis in a Superman movie, it could be referenced in a Batman film that takes place after it, and maybe it could even affect Gotham's economy. Anyone else like my idea?

 

[KRIM]

No it wasn't, but the point was that people just accepted there were two Bond films released in the same year, and both were watched. It's the closest example to the situation that is being discussed at the moment with JL.

Yes, but the two were well-established in their roles by then. I believe it was Moore's sixth and Connery's seventh. Even then, the two never had to compete simultaneously as they built their popularity.

A situation like JL would have a considerably different climate as the recast actors would presumably have to compete with the established stars in the roles... at the same time. It's definitely possible, but it also creates an unnecessary divide.

In any case, I'm confident WB will reconsider this horrid idea if GL becomes a hit. Even moreso if Supes does the same. No way they'll throw out their two stars in favor of newbies.

 

[Karelia]

Yeah, I really can't see them replacing Reynolds or Cavill if those do well. Which I'll say, I think their both going to do extremely well. I can see them possibly replacing Bale, because he would have finished a trilogy of films and that would be their chance to bring in a new actor for Batman.

 

[jmc]

Yes, but the two were well-established in their roles by then. I believe it was Moore's sixth and Connery's seventh. Even then, the two never had to compete simultaneously as they built their popularity.

A situation like JL would have a considerably different climate as the recast actors would presumably have to compete with the established stars in the roles... at the same time. It's definitely possible, but it also creates an unnecessary divide.

In any case, I'm confident WB will reconsider this horrid idea if GL becomes a hit. Even moreso if Supes does the same. No way they'll throw out their two stars in favor of newbies.

The Bond example is still a valid comparison in this case to show that people will go see films regardless of continuity or who's playing the characters, it matters not who's established and who's not as the character, if anything the shear notion of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in a film together is more than enough to overcome any possible problems that may arise from having multiple actors playing the same character. Just because something like this hasn't really been done before doesn't mean it's an idea that cannot be executed well.

 

[Timstuff]

Yeah, I really can't see them replacing Reynolds or Cavill if those do well. Which I'll say, I think their both going to do extremely well. I can see them possibly replacing Bale, because he would have finished a trilogy of films and that would be their chance to bring in a new actor for Batman.

A Justice League movie that bridges the solo films would be very good for transitioning Batman. First of all, it would allow Audiences to get used to the new actor before they see him in a solo film. Secondly, they could warm people up to the idea that Batman can exist in a world with more fantastical elements in it, since a lot of people are stuck on the misguided idea of "if it does not fit this one very narrow definition of 'realism,' it can't be in the movies." Iconic characters like Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Clayface, Killer Croc and more who would otherwise be ignored can be introduced in Batman's solo films more smoothly if the audience has already accepted that Batman does not exist in a 100% "realistic" world.

 

[Godzilla2014]

A Justice League movie that bridges the solo films would be very good for transitioning Batman. First of all, it would allow Audiences to get used to the new actor before they see him in a solo film. Secondly, they could warm people up to the idea that Batman can exist in a world with more fantastical elements in it, since a lot of people are stuck on the misguided idea of "if it does not fit this one very narrow definition of 'realism,' it can't be in the movies." Iconic characters like Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Clayface, Killer Croc and more who would otherwise be ignored can be introduced in Batman's solo films more smoothly if the audience has already accepted that Batman does not exist in a 100% "realistic" world.

Actually, I think the reason the characters you mentioned didn't appear has more to do with the Batman stories that Christopher Nolan wanted to tell, which were crime dramas, than just simply realism. You could, for most of them, revamp them to be realistic. But the question that remains is, "How do they fit into the crime drama landscape of Gotham?" Sure Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist hippie, but what the hell would that have to do with the organized crime and corruption of Gotham City?

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah, I really can't see them replacing Reynolds or Cavill if those do well. Which I'll say, I think their both going to do extremely well. I can see them possibly replacing Bale, because he would have finished a trilogy of films and that would be their chance to bring in a new actor for Batman.

Do you reckon they're just seeing how well Superman and GL do at the box office then before they decide if they're gonna recast the roles (or in GLs case a different Lantern)?

 

[Timstuff]

Actually, I think the reason the characters you mentioned didn't appear has more to do with the Batman stories that Christopher Nolan wanted to tell, which were crime dramas, than just simply realism. You could, for most of them, revamp them to be realistic. But the question that remains is, "How do they fit into the crime drama landscape of Gotham?" Sure Poison Ivy could be an eco-terrorist hippie, but what the hell would that have to do with the organized crime and corruption of Gotham City?

Would Poison Ivy really be as interesting a villain if she didn't have control over plants, or wasn't able to control people by kissing them? Would Mr. Freeze be as interesting if he wasn't stuck inside of a freeze suit and didn't have a freeze gun? Making the characters more "realistic" is not necessarily a good idea. Adding an air of believability to the characters is one thing, but eliminating anything that does not have a true scientific explanation is a really pointless action that ultimately sucks the imagination out of Batman's rogues.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

Self-contained. Gotta keep the Welling dream alive. And Armie Hammer for Batman.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Would Poison Ivy really be as interesting a villain if she didn't have control over plants, or wasn't able to control people by kissing them? Would Mr. Freeze be as interesting if he wasn't stuck inside of a freeze suit and didn't have a freeze gun? Making the characters more "realistic" is not necessarily a good idea. Adding an air of believability to the characters is one thing, but eliminating anything that does not have a true scientific explanation is a really pointless action that ultimately sucks the imagination out of Batman's rogues.

You're missing the point. The reason they haven't been in Nolan's Batman films is that they don't fit into the gritty crime drama stories that Nolan wants to tell.

 

[JBElliott]

It should be a single universe and all the DC movies should have been made with that in mind. Of course they weren't, so at some point we'll have a crisis of infinite movies.

 

[TheVileOne]

Bond was already a huge movie franchise at that point. And while those movies were box office successes they weren't exactly the level something like Justice League would need to be in order to be a success. Even going by inflation adjustment of ticket prices.

 

[Duke]

IMO, a Justice League movie should be like what Marvel is doing with the Avenger's Movie. It should never be a "self contained" movie.

 

[Shazam]

Monkey see, monkey do! Why does DC have to do the same thing Marvel is doing?

This should and can be a self-contained universe! DC has a multiverse to play with in their books.....why not on screen??

The TV show Smallville is nothing like the comics in many aspects. But I have viewed it as an elseworlds or multiverse thing.

As I said before, in other threads, I want a Batman that is closer in style and attitude to the JLU animated Batman. That has been by far, the most exact representation of the Dark Knight on any media other than comics.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

I don't see what the trouble is with a self contained universe. LIike I've been saying since 2007: If they where to have thought that out from the beginning it makes sense, but they didn't. THey made individual franchises. Justice League as an individual franchise isn't that crazy a notion. I'd rather the movie be assembled for it's own sake over the sake of continuity fan service. You see, in each movie they should try and maximize what that movie can do. Justice League should maximize what a that movie's director's and producers vision is. If that means you can't see Ryan Reynolds talking to Christian Bale, then it's no huge loss.

 

[Shazam]

I don't see what the trouble is with a self contained universe. LIike I've been saying since 2007: If they where to have thought that out from the beginning it makes sense, but they didn't. THey made individual franchises. Justice League as an individual franchise isn't that crazy a notion. I'd rather the movie be assembled for it's own sake over the sake of continuity fan service. You see, in each movie they should try and maximize what that movie can do. Justice League should maximize what a that movie's director's and producers vision is. If that means you can't see Ryan Reynolds talking to Christian Bale, then it's no huge loss.

Bingo!!

 

[DCUmoviepage]

For one side, the Warner strategy is very different from marvel, and is not soo fallible as he looks. Puting a movie tema now and explore they most popular members in spin-offs and/or solo movie franchises give to the studio infinites option to work, with several combination of differents JLAs. The problem for me is putting Batman and Superman now in the film, because in batman the franchise is not over yet and Superman movie have the mission to made the caracther been "modernized" for the mainstream audiences. But a movie with the classic formation from Brave and The Bold #27 will be the way to to do the film, in my opinion. Later you can but the stabilized Superman and the new version of the Batman in a sequel or something like.

 

[El Payaso]

IMO, a Justice League movie should be like what Marvel is doing with the Avenger's Movie. It should never be a "self contained" movie.

Let's see how the Avengers movie turns out first.

 

[TheVileOne]

Or how Thor and Cap turn out first .