BvS Knightmare Scene/Cameo Spoiler

[Rapunzel]

I think Lois is the key to resurrecting Supes...and that Flash's warning was meant to come after Supes died, but was "too soon" Hence the "he" that Bruce was always right about has not been mentioned becaue Bruce doesn't learn of "him" till Lex tells him after Supes dies. Thus the whole message is misinterpreted.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I'm thinking Bruce's Knightmare could be a secondary effect of the Flash's extra-dimensional powers, I don't think it was a dream. I actually read somewhere that the speed force was capable of granting ESP to anyone who was in communion with it.

Interestingly enough, Jay Oliva, the storyboard artist who worked on both MoS and BvS, recently suggested a similar theory.

“You want to know the answer? Okay… you’ve watched The Flashpoint Paradox, my movie, right? In the DC Universe in the comics, there’s this thing where– it’s a little different than the Back to The Future thing where you can go back in time and change your threads and stuff, but in DC, when you go back in time you create this kind of ‘Time Boom’ kind of thing where lots of things change.

“Okay, so let me just tell you this. Again… I don’t know if this is Zack’s thinking, but this is mine: what if that isn’t a dream sequence? What if what you saw was a Time Boom, a latent memory from the future when Flash comes back? If you look at the cut, he doesn’t go to sleep! He’s waiting for the [Lexcorp file decryption] and suddenly this [Knightmare sequence] comes in, and he’s jogged out of it seeing his own death. And what does he see? He sees Flash. And if you’re a DC fan, you know what’s happening. You know that Flash going back in time, that memory is now coming back to him… mind you, it’s jumbled.”

 

[Rapunzel]

But how does that jive with the "too soon, too soon"? If the warning's about Supes', it's not too soon.

 

[chintai80]

I'm thinking Bruce's Knightmare could be a secondary effect of the Flash's extra-dimensional powers, I don't think it was a dream. I actually read somewhere that the speed force was capable of granting ESP to anyone who was in communion with it.

Interestingly enough, Jay Oliva, the storyboard artist who worked on both MoS and BvS, recently suggested a similar theory.

this is i what i thought too when i saw the movie. bruce's memories are getting changed and messed with due to flash affecting the timelines.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

But how does that jive with the "too soon, too soon"? If the warning's about Supes', it's not too soon.

The whole point of traveling back through time, especially to prevent a dystopian future, is too get there fairly early, though; forewarned is forearmed. So, to answer your question, I believe that Flash was being pulled back to his own time much faster than he anticipated. He barely got the chance to articulate a warning to Bruce.

this is i what i thought too when i saw the movie. bruce's memories are getting changed and messed with due to flash affecting the timelines.

Exactly.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

But how does that jive with the "too soon, too soon"? If the warning's about Supes', it's not too soon.

He probably just expected Bruce to know him already, but the league isn't even formed yet.

 

[Rapunzel]

Still not buying that it's Supes Flash is warning about... the knightmare could be connected, it could not be. Frankly I think Flash causing collapsed memories while messing with the timeline is kinda overcomplicated. But then, Snyder seems to love that.

I just think the too soon, too soon was the script's way of telling us that it's too soon to make sense of anything....and if that's the case, then it's likely Flash's warning is about something we don't understand yet, rather than evill Supes.

 

[Jaxon]

I think Jaeroar explained it well, partly.

1) Bruce doesn't see that sequence, that's just the audience aware of the future.
2) Flash comes back from that future warns Bruce which alters the timeline as Bruce now forms the JL. In Flash's future there was no JL, that's why he tells Bruce to find them.
3) Bruce only sees the Flash but is confused if it was real or another of his PTSD dreams

 

[Rapunzel]

So the warning is about evil Supes in Jaeroar's theory? How does he explain the "too soon" part?

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

I think Jaeroar explained it well, partly.

1) Bruce doesn't see that sequence, that's just the audience aware of the future.
2) Flash comes back from that future warns Bruce which alters the timeline as Bruce now forms the JL. In Flash's future there was no JL, that's why he tells Bruce to find them.
3) Bruce only sees the Flash but is confused if it was real or another of his PTSD dreams

I think in flash's future there is a JL, otherwise how would he know bruce? And I also think that's the explanation for him saying he's too soon, since the JL isn't formed yet. It seems pretty straight-forward. Supes said "she was my world, and you took her from me" in the knightmare. Then Flash says "it's lois, lois is the key". It's too obvious to not be connected.

 

[Rapunzel]

I think in flash's future there is a JL, otherwise how would he know bruce? And I also think that's the explanation for him saying he's too soon, since the JL isn't formed yet. It seems pretty straight-forward. Supes said "she was my world, and you took her from me" in the knightmare. Then Flash says "it's lois, lois is the key". It's too obvious to not be connected.

Or it's a red herring.

 

[Jaxon]

I think in flash's future there is a JL, otherwise how would he know bruce? And I also think that's the explanation for him saying he's too soon, since the JL isn't formed yet. It seems pretty straight-forward. Supes said "she was my world, and you took her from me" in the knightmare. Then Flash says "it's lois, lois is the key". It's too obvious to not be connected.

I think they're aware of each other but didn't form as a collective unit and hence Darkseid was able to take Earth.

I think his "too soon" comment was more like "oh s***, you don't know who I am do you"

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think Jaeroar explained it well, partly.

1) Bruce doesn't see that sequence, that's just the audience aware of the future.
2) Flash comes back from that future warns Bruce which alters the timeline as Bruce now forms the JL. In Flash's future there was no JL, that's why he tells Bruce to find them.
3) Bruce only sees the Flash but is confused if it was real or another of his PTSD dreams

Bats definitely sees/experiences the vision, as he's shown clutching his chest, the very same spot where he was dealt a fatal blow from Superman.

 

[Flickster]

The Knightmare sequence is not a dream but a memory from an alternate timeline (in which Superman is evil and works under Darkseid). This is made evident by the fact that Bruce does not fall asleep before the sequence begins but is staring at his monitor when it does.

What triggers the memory is the fact that what he's doing at his computer pertains to what he does in the sequence (i.e. attempt to acquire kryptonite). Recall that when he's staring at his monitor before the sequence begins, he's watching a progress bar of the decryption of the data that he stole from Lex, which is how he learns about the kryptonite. Likewise, recall that in the Knightmare sequence, he meets up with a group to acquire what he believes is kryptonite stolen from Lex (the box says Lex Corp) but is really just a green lightbulb (because he's being tricked and ambushed). Do you see the correspondance? The process through which Bruce learns that Lex is smuggling kryptonite, which he wants to steal and use to kill Superman, triggers a memory from an alternate timeline in which he attempts to do the same thing but fails and is instead captured by Superman's henchmen and is killed by Superman himself.

This is why the Flash comes to his timeline (i.e. to warn him about Superman).

 

[Jaxon]

The Knightmare sequence is not a dream but a memory from an alternate timeline (in which Superman is evil and works under Darkseid). This is made evident by the fact that Bruce does not fall asleep before the sequence begins but is staring at his monitor when it does.

What triggers the memory is the fact that what he's doing at his computer pertains to what he does in the sequence (i.e. attempt to acquire kryptonite). Recall that when he's staring at his monitor before the sequence begins, he's watching a progress bar of the decryption of the data that he stole from Lex, which is how he learns about the kryptonite. Likewise, recall that in the Knightmare sequence, he meets up with a group to acquire what he believes is kryptonite stolen from Lex (the box says Lex Corp) but is really just a green lightbulb (because he's being tricked and ambushed). Do you see the correspondance? The process through which Bruce learns that Lex is smuggling kryptonite, which he wants to steal and use to kill Superman, triggers a memory from an alternate timeline in which he attempts to do the same thing but fails and is instead captured by Superman's henchmen and is killed by Superman himself.

This is why the Flash comes to his timeline (i.e. to warn him about Superman).

Makes sense, I'll take it.

 

[AnneFan]

Either way, I don't think it's a dream. It's a post apocalyptic timeline that may or may not come true.

 

[gdw]

But how does that jive with the "too soon, too soon"? If the warning's about Supes', it's not too soon.

The warning doesn't have to be about Superman in this scenario. I never thought it was. It's about Darkseid, and Bruce misinterprets it as being about Superman.

Or if it was about Superman, it's about his potential, and it being taken advantage of/corrupted by Darkseid, and being too soon, Bruce takes it to only be referring to Superman in and of himself, and thus still misinterprets it to harden his resolve in taking out Superman.

Flash is coming from that future to warn Bruce about Darkseid, and the future he will create. He inadvertently causes Bruce to glimpse this future, and all he sees is himself and Superman, thus furthering Bruce's misunderstanding.

He probably just expected Bruce to know him already, but the league isn't even formed yet.

I don't think he necessarily expected Bruce to know him, as he told him he needs to "find us."
He might have expected him to know him though, and only says "find us" after he realizes that Bruce does NOT recognize him. He just didn't realize that he was also in the middle of his conflict with Superman, and that so much of his message would be misinterpreted.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Either way, I don't think it's a dream. It's a post apocalyptic timeline that may or may not come true.

Absolutely. It's clear as day. In this version of the future, Darkseid wins and has turned Earth into the new Apokolips. He's able to win because Superman loses his own hope when Lois dies. Now Superman has been won over by Darkseid and Bruce and Barry and everyone else has to fight Darkseid & Superman. Winless situation.

Barry warns Bruce about the future and wants him to assemble the league to save Lois and prevent that future from happening.

A couple of things have been altered since that dream happened. Superman is no more and Bruce knows not to go at it alone and to assemble a team. Perhaps he needs to watch over Lois while Superman is gone. Perhaps Superman lives in that future vision, turns bad or perhaps the events of BvS always happens and Superman dies but returns to find Lois dead which sends him over the edge. That remains to be seen.

I'm not sure if they go Eradicator and Brainiac and Man of Tomorrow route with Superman in JL. There may not be enough time for that. I think Superman will serve the role of Han Solo in A New Hope and come in at the end to save the day. I'm not sure they will have enough time to go through the eradicator and all that came with Superman's return in this movie. Of course, they might which would also help explain evil future Supes. Zack can go a number of ways and I'm excited to see what he pulls off.

/ramble

 

[Bat of Gotham]

I'm thinking the Knightmare sequence was a memory from an alternate timeline - an alternative Batman, probably caused by the Flash traversing the Multiverse, tampering with the timelines and what not. But the Flash's "warning" definitely played out in real time, no question about it. You could see the papers blowing still from Flash closing the Speed Force portal after Bruce "woke up".

It's going to be really interesting see how all this ties into Justice League.

 

[The Guard]

I like that it was left open. You know whats cool? They could never use these concepts again, and if they establish that The Flash can traverse time and dimensions...it still works as an Easter egg.

 

[Tra-El]

I think Jaeroar explained it well, partly.

1) Bruce doesn't see that sequence, that's just the audience aware of the future.
2) Flash comes back from that future warns Bruce which alters the timeline as Bruce now forms the JL. In Flash's future there was no JL, that's why he tells Bruce to find them.
3) Bruce only sees the Flash but is confused if it was real or another of his PTSD dreams

Bingo. I'm a huge fan of JAEROARS theory.

 

[smsvmos]

Here is my theory on the dream sequence and what Flash tells Bruce

We all agree that what we see is a vision from an alternate timeline that is being changed by what Flash is going to tell Bruce. But let's work it backwards. Flash shows up and tells Bruce that Lois is the key. Many people think that what he is referring is that Lois death was the cause of Superman turning evil. But what I think he is saying is that Lois is the key to snapping Superman out of Darkseid mind control. Take for example the HUSH story line from the comics where we see Superman being mind controlled by Poison Ivy and he is ready to kill Batman. Batman being the detective that he is and planing ahead of the possible situation he tells Catwoman to kidnap Lois and throw her off a building and she does and in that exact moment Superman saves her and he snaps out of the mind control.

Flash now figures out that he went too far back in time but I don't think he knows how far so he says that Bruce was right about him, again we think and speculate that is Superman that Flash is referring about as he says those words to Bruce but, what if he is referring to Darkseid?

Let's keep the timeline unaltered for a moment and move to Batman fighting Superman. Batmans intention in the fight was to kill Superman, we can see that because he had it all planed out. At the conclusion of the fight Superman tells Batman that He is letting them kill Martha. Let's say that Batman kills Superman in that alternate time line and he never saves Martha and she dies. Batman didn't know that Superman was going to come back from the dead but to his surprise Superman returns to a world where Batman let Martha die by the hands of Lex goons. Superman blames Batman for her death. Darkseid comes to earth and finds this broken down Superman full of anger. Darkseid feeds out of that and takes control of a vulnerable Superman. Darkseid let's Superman become his general on earth and gives him an army of humans and parademons. Last fighting chance earth has is Batman,Flash, Aquaman and maybe Wonder Woman.

Now we are in the vision scene where Batman and his people are trying to get their hands in the last pice of Kryptonite so they can kill Superman. Well we can now see that this plan failed and Batman is captured. We see Superman kill two of the allies that Batman had with him and then tells Bruce that he took her away from him. We all assume that he is talking about Lois but I think he was actually talking about Martha. Bruce let his mother die.

Let's go back in time where Batman and Superman are fighting and Superman tells Batman to save Martha . Batman now puts two and two together and now he understands why alternate timeline Superman wanted him dead and why Superman turned so evil.

The key here was Martha. When Superman returns from the dead he and Batman will be allies and the JLA will defeat Darkseid

 

[iham32]

Only posters from here recognized it was flash. Everyone else had no clue. Scene was useless for the movie.

 

[shauner111]

Only posters from here recognized it was flash. Everyone else had no clue. Scene was useless for the movie.

It's a cool scene but it should have been edited out completely. We only needed to see this scene played out in a Justice League. Whether it's going to be a scene exactly like it was portrayed, or a variation on that scene.

Same with the e-mail that Diana opens which shows the cameos. That would have been a neat post-credit scene. But DC don't want to do things logically. Im not a big fan of the Marvel post-credit scenes, because i don't like the scenes themselves. But the concept is very cool for a shared universe. That Justice League easter egg scene would have been perfect after the movie. In the context of the movie, it's baffling. The Knightmare vision or Inception dream has the ability to break an audience. I can't tell you how many times i saw people in front and around in the cinema throw their hands up in confusion or nodding their heads when it happens. I've seen a couple of youngsters whispering to their buddies but those are the geeks who are like "what's going on? Are those parademons? Is that the Flash?". The majority of the crowd were baffled. Poor placement.