The Dark Knight Laying the Foundation.

[chosen1]

I'm a little worried. and maybe I'm worried for nothing. But I have a feeling we are not going to see some the characters we have come to love in the batman universe on the big screen. What I think is spider-man 3's problem packing too much in, is exactly what the dark knight needs. Not really packing too much in. But going over a lot in the next film. I'm not going to pretend I know whats going to happen. I'm not trying to toot my own horn but I have a pretty good instinct as far as predicting how things are going to turn out. Some of you have that same instinct from reading your ideas on the boards.

Now. When I say lay the foundation I'm talking introducing a good and reasonable forshadowing for movies beyond 3 and even if there isnt going to be a batman 4 still lay the forshadowing so we get an idea of how things end up.

My fear is that we are never going to get an fully established batman that we had in burtons films.

If that is the case fine. I'm with those who want to keep it gritty and serious. Great. What I'm saying is lets introduce some of these characters NOT THERE COUNTERPARTS, just the characters BEFORE they suit up or go evil or what not.

I've read people want robin, talia, Harley quinn, penguin. etc

Why not just introduce

dick grason at age 13. sometime in the next film NO REFERENCES TO ROBIN at all. not even in the third film. just put him there so if there is a fourth film and they plan to portray the hero robin correctly it wont be like they just threw him in the movie his has been around for a while. Bruce did raise dick for a number of years.

Harleen quinzel as an intelligent psychiatrists or whatever.

you get the idea.

I can also make the same case about the cave.

I saw some wicked designs of the Cave in some pictures someone posted. Our batman is nowhere near that. I know some of you are saying "well its just the first movie." well lets be honest from what I've heard and I could be wrong is that the second movie is going to take place right after the roof top scene. and how much time at most can the third film take after the second.

thats just the beginning of my ramble.

I'll wait for some feedback before continuing

 

[fabman]

!?

Duh

 

[Darknightnomis]

"We'll never get a fully established Batman like in the Burton movies"???

What are you talking about? Burton didn't give us jack about Batman. We knew more about the VILLIANs than Batman in his movies.

Batman Begins laid the perfect foundation for abtman and have regulated the villians to secondary characters... which is where they belong.

 

[raybia]

I'm a little worried. and maybe I'm worried for nothing. But I have a feeling we are not going to see some the characters we have come to love in the batman universe on the big screen.

After watching BB, why do you feel this way?


What I think is spider-man 3's problem packing too much in, is exactly what the dark knight needs.

Why would this work for TDK but not S3?


Now. When I say lay the foundation I'm talking introducing a good and reasonable forshadowing for movies beyond 3 and even if there isnt going to be a batman 4 still lay the forshadowing so we get an idea of how things end up.

There was plenty forshadowing in BB (think about it, go watch BB again) and I would imagine that Nolan will do the same in TDK. This guy probably knows the Batmythos better than many of us at this point.


My fear is that we are never going to get an fully established batman that we had in burtons films.

Unfounded fear at this point. What superhero director do you know of that upon completing the script for BB submitted it to DC for final approval under his own free will?

If that is the case fine. I'm with those who want to keep it gritty and serious. Great. What I'm saying is lets introduce some of these characters NOT THERE COUNTERPARTS, just the characters BEFORE they suit up or go evil or what not. I've read people want robin, talia, Harley quinn, penguin. etc

Let me put it like this: So far there has only been one movie made to date. I that movie Nolan has introduced:

Bruce Wayne
Alfred
Gordon
Commissioner Loeb
Flass
Lucius Fox
Scarecrow
Falcone
Ra's which opens the door for Talia
Opened the door for the Joker which opens the door for Harley

My point? These are ALL characters from the comics and Nolan introduced them in BB so the strong assumption is that he will continue this trend in TDK.

Also, even if Nolan never actually introduces characters like Robin, Harley, or Pengiun, he hasn't done ANYTHING so far that would prevent those characters from being introduced. Nolan has so far effectively set the stage for the Batman in the comics to be introduced.

Remember, there is no guarantee that Nolan will be around after TDK, and while I personally feel that Nolan will return to complete the conclusion of TDK, I'm almost certain that its three and done.

So, the question is what kind of condition will he leave this franchise? In a way this is similar of what happens in the comics. Big time writer comes in and revamps the character for a 10-20 issue run, re-energizes the book, and then hands it off to hopefully, competent hands.

We'll see if WB can do the same when Nolan leaves.



Why not just introduce

dick grason at age 13. sometime in the next film NO REFERENCES TO ROBIN at all. not even in the third film. just put him there so if there is a fourth film and they plan to portray the hero robin correctly it wont be like they just threw him in the movie his has been around for a while. Bruce did raise dick for a number of years.

It could happen. In spite of Nolan's comments about Robin, I think he flirted with this in BB.

I can also make the same case about the cave.

I saw some wicked designs of the Cave in some pictures someone posted. Our batman is nowhere near that. I know some of you are saying "well its just the first movie."

Again, Nolan is familar with Batlore, he'll do fine with the cave. Do you think he would have made reference to the cave at the end of BB with Alfred asking Bruce about doing improvements if he had no intention of re-designing the cave then this scene wouldn't had been added.


well lets be honest from what I've heard and I could be wrong is that the second movie is going to take place right after the roof top scene. and how much time at most can the third film take after the second.

Maybe. There are more rumors than anything right now, but we're getting close to finding out the facts.

 

[raybia]

Are you there chosen1?

 

[chosen1]

Are you there chosen1?

yeah just finished reading you make some excellent points

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Wait you've seen Spider-Man 3?

 

[chosen1]

Wait you've seen Spider-Man 3?

Nope. But I do get to see two months before it comes out.

Cant tell you how though. (high level shhhhh.....)

 

[Milkman95]

The Batman in BB was more fleshed out than Burton, so I don't know where this guy is coming from. Entertaining.

 

[Anguissette1979]

Milkman! I have a PM in my box from you from like 2 years ago!

 

[raybia]

Milkman! I have a PM in my box from you from like 2 years ago!

Go ahead open it!

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Any of you guys wish to see Harvey Bullock in the film

maybe as a rival detective to Gordon, jealous of his alliance with Batman, who tips off the joker or Maronis or something

 

[Katsuro]

The Batman in BB was more fleshed out than Burton, so I don't know where this guy is coming from. Entertaining.

I dont think he's talking about character development. I think he means in terms of the eyes of the public. In Begins and Burton's first film, Batman was just starting out. Either most people didn't believe he existed, or they doubted his intentions. He was still very much beginning in both. But by the end of Batman '89, Batman is established. The Batsignal is unveiled in front of the public, instead of in private. So i think all chosen1 is saying is that he's not sure if Nolan's Batman will ever step out of being a beginning Batman and become like the guy in the comics today, with a huge rogues gallery, tons of allies, and all kinds of gadgets and toys.

Personally, I hope they take it slow. Show a gradual increase, as opposed to huge jumps between movies. A new suit and car and sidekick every film. And i pray it never gets to the point where Batman and Robin are making public appearances and flashing Bat Credit-Cards.

 

[darknight7]

I dont think he's talking about character development. I think he means in terms of the eyes of the public. In Begins and Burton's first film, Batman was just starting out. Either most people didn't believe he existed, or they doubted his intentions. He was still very much beginning in both. But by the end of Batman '89, Batman is established. The Batsignal is unveiled in front of the public, instead of in private. So i think all chosen1 is saying is that he's not sure if Nolan's Batman will ever step out of being a beginning Batman and become like the guy in the comics today, with a huge rogues gallery, tons of allies, and all kinds of gadgets and toys.

This is exactly how I understood chosen1's rant about establishment. He did mean that Batman in the 90's franchise, was well known among the public and well equiped with mutiple gadgets for every situation he got himself into. Where as Batman in Begins, is still unknown to many, a myth. He does not have the Bat Computer, or all the gadgets, therefore he is not "the established Batman" that we are used to.

**Although, now that I think about it. I think Batman will be well known in TDK. After the events which occured: The Narrows (ending scene) with Ra's trying to destroy Gotham and Batman stopping him. The Tumbler smashing all over Gotham City. The fact that the Bat Signal will now be used whenever Batman is needed. I don't think he will be 100% established as "THE BAT-MAN", but I do believe he will be a bit more grounded among the citizens of Gotham.

--dk7

 

[Anguissette1979]

I think I would just cringe to see the Batman of Nolan's universe out doing press conferences, and being flashed all over the news in an overt way (as in footage of him doing stuff that wasn't from... say... a security camera or something).

How can criminals be afraid of someone they know to be a guy in a suit? Doesn't it make more sense to leave him as something of a mystery in the eyes of the public?

 

[raybia]

--dk7

Think about it though. How much does the public really know about the plot against Gotham, Ras, and the fact that Batman saved the day.

If you look at the events of BB from the eyes of the common citizen, Batman is merely a rumor by the end of the BB and the Ra's plot merely passed off as a distrubance in the Narrows (which no one cares about anyway) and a derailment of a train. Stories like this happens all of the time in the real world in Metropoltian cities.

Batman will probably be just an urban legend in the eyes of the citizens of Gotham by the time TDK is released.

 

[Anguissette1979]

Batman will probably be just an urban legend in the eyes of the citizens of Gotham by the time TDK is released.

I think he'll be something slightly above "urban legend" status but not by much... we do know he's been in the paper twice. I can't think of many urban legends that get that much press...

 

[TwilightPro101]

I'm with Anguissette. The only difference is the signal will be on hand now.

 

[Anguissette1979]

I'm with Anguissette. The only difference is the signal will be on hand now.

To me the signal is the equivalent of the Bat Cellphone. It means, Gordon needs to talk, not "there's trouble somewhere in the city". The more mysterious to the world he is, the better.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I dont think he's talking about character development. I think he means in terms of the eyes of the public. In Begins and Burton's first film, Batman was just starting out. Either most people didn't believe he existed, or they doubted his intentions. He was still very much beginning in both. But by the end of Batman '89, Batman is established. The Batsignal is unveiled in front of the public, instead of in private. So i think all chosen1 is saying is that he's not sure if Nolan's Batman will ever step out of being a beginning Batman and become like the guy in the comics today, with a huge rogues gallery, tons of allies, and all kinds of gadgets and toys.

Personally, I hope they take it slow. Show a gradual increase, as opposed to huge jumps between movies. A new suit and car and sidekick every film. And i pray it never gets to the point where Batman and Robin are making public appearances and flashing Bat Credit-Cards.

I agree...LOL Batman Credit card, don't leave home without it, classic momment in cinema

but in all seriousness, I think that in TDK i think what Nolan means by "earning the name the dark knight" possibley he will come into his own, and become a public figure by the end of it

 

[raybia]

I think he'll be something slightly above "urban legend" status but not by much... we do know he's been in the paper twice. I can't think of many urban legends that get that much press...

So has Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, UFOs, and WMD in Iraq.

 

[raybia]

I agree...LOL Batman Credit card, don't leave home without it, classic momment in cinema

but in all seriousness, I think that in TDK i think what Nolan means by "earning the name the dark knight" possibley he will come into his own, and become a public figure by the end of it

I don't know about that as far as the public figure. Batman in the comics didn't become a public figure until recently after the events of the Earthquake story.

I guess what I'm saying is not that Batman will never be known by the citizens of Gotham, however thru his exploits, his legend will grown...and isn't that what Ducard told him he could help him to become?

 

[Adam West]

The citizens of Gotham should always doubt the existence of Batman.

There is no way that Batman would ever logically put a child in a bright costume up against dangerous criminals. Robin may have worked in the 40's-60's era, but today, Robin is not a good idea. I could see the kid from the narrows in Begins trying to help Batman however, and dying because of it. (He could even be named Jason Todd).

I think Batman will have gained the experience from dealing with the Joker to become the more established Batman by the end of TDK.

It would be exceedingly simple to have a few throwaway hints at characters. (Harleen Quinzel as the new head of Psychiatry at Arkham, Bruce meeting a woman named Selina, a newspaper headline "Police baffled by Riddle themed crimes.")

 

[Miranda Fox]

It would be exceedingly simple to have a few throwaway hints at characters. (Harleen Quinzel as the new head of Psychiatry at Arkham, Bruce meeting a woman named Selina, a newspaper headline "Police baffled by Riddle themed crimes.")

I know a lot of people don't like The Batman cartoon but they did have an interesting way of introducing Harleen as a pop-psychologist. They could have a cameo where she's speaking on TV and defending the rights of the criminals - foreshadowing what's to come with her and Mister. J. Sort of like Hank McCoy's cameo in X-Men 2.

 

[raybia]

I know a lot of people don't like The Batman cartoon but they did have an interesting way of introducing Harleen as a pop-psychologist. They could have a cameo where she's speaking on TV and defending the rights of the criminals - foreshadowing what's to come with her and Mister. J. Sort of like Hank McCoy's cameo in X-Men 2.

I could go for that. I LOVE foreshadowing!!