The Dark Knight Ledger: Joker darker more sinister

[7Hells]

Since when was Crispin Glover cast?

bah! I dont think you are giving Glovers abilities enough credit

 

[Shedhut]

It's hugely overrated. Unimaginative teenage boys profess to like it because it glorifies violence in a particularly psuedo-artistic fashion.

I fear that this film is very much on the wrong track. The principle villain is to be played by a mediocre actor with no understanding of his role.

ooh, i think you didnt get the point of the film(CO). I read the book years ago then watched the film and it is nothing like you described it. imo it is a near perfect visual translation of a very good book.

back to topic now. Alex as depicted in the beginning of the film captures a lot of behaviour I want to see from the Joker in TDK.

 

[StorminNorman]

bah! I dont think you are giving Glovers abilities enough credit

Maybe not - but I dont care. I just dont like the guy

 

[ultimatefan]

You have no understanding of my post. I understand perfectly that issues integral to Burgess' novel- anarchy/freewill vs. authoritarianism. I think that it is a fairly glib "message", and one that was further dilluted in the film, which I think was among Kubrick's weakest. Furthermore, I do not accept your assertion that ultra violence can be succesfully "satyrised", nor do I think the film even attempts that. What you get is a muddled "sillification" of heinous acts, which does nothing to underline their deplorability. In short, I don't think the film succeeds in constructing a palpable sense of moral equivalence, which seems to be its lynchpin, if I recall rightly.

Look, I just don't like it. I tend to think that the film has a following purely because of its contrived controversy, its design, and the prestige of its dierector. You may think me wrong, but please don't attempt to patronise me.

Your initial comment sounded like you deserved the patronizing. This one is better, but I still disagree. I think ultraviolence can be satyrised yes and I think it does a great job of underlining its deplorability through irony, and I happen to find the "glib" message intriguing, and I felt the moral equivalence, or at least that it puts its morality into a gray area, which I feel was the intention.
Regardless of that, Ledger´s comment felt more in the sense of making the Joker someone sadistic, who doesn´t care about society´s rules, which is very true of The Joker.

 

[Shedhut]

Clockwork Orange was originally rated 'X' in America and it was moreso for the depiction of a sadistic violence teen culture than the nudity.

late but anyway thx for clearing that up. well Joker is not in his teens, is he

 

[Retroman]

Kubrick is one of Nolan's inspirations so the Clockwork Orange comment probably shouldn't be surprising.

Inspirations

"I've always loved films. I started making films when I was seven years old and I haven't stopped. I never really thought about doing anything else. What I love are films that create their own particular geography, a particular world and emerse you in it for a couple of hours.

"I have always been a huge fan of Ridley Scott and certainly when I was a kid. Alien, Blade Runner just blew me away because they created these extraodinary worlds that were just completely emersive. I was also an enormous Stanley Kubrick fan for similar reasons.

"And as I got older I got more interested in films that I had not grown up with - sort cinema people like Nicolas Roeg, Syney Lumet and John Frankenheimer."

Source: http://www.christophernolan.net/biography.php

and check out this suggestion from Wizard magazine which they made last year.

Posted June 29, 2005

16 Sequel potential
As the credits roll, you will want to see the next one right then. Trust us—you will cheer.

Now let’s rev up that Batmobile and find that Schumacher guy. He should see this flick “Clockwork Orange”-style.

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/movies/batmanbegins/000434765.cfm

 

[The Sage]

Can someone give a brief summary of what Clockwork Orange is about? Because...I don't know, LOL.

 

[Stringer]

Ridley Scott is the man A great director to be inspired by.

 

[Dr. MIX]

Looks like I'll be renting a Clockwork Orange

 

[Cinemaman]

As for my mind, if they make TDK as more like thriller with less action, then I will be disappointed just like a great number of fans

Joker should look like he was in comics, BUT with some changes in the details (to make him a bit more believeable and also fit in Nolan's vision).

But there should be as much action as it was in BB, and this time I want to see real fight (though I liked some quick shots in fights from BB).

 

[regwec]

Your initial comment sounded like you deserved the patronizing. This one is better, but I still disagree. I think ultraviolence can be satyrised yes and I think it does a great job of underlining its deplorability through irony, and I happen to find the "glib" message intriguing, and I felt the moral equivalence, or at least that it puts its morality into a gray area, which I feel was the intention.
Regardless of that, Ledger´s comment felt more in the sense of making the Joker someone sadistic, who doesn´t care about society´s rules, which is very true of The Joker.

Then it really boils down to a matter of taste. I tend to lump Orange, perhaps unfairly, with films like Man Bites Dog and Irreversable; films that have an embryo of an involving idea, but obscure it with too much physicality. I am dimly aware that Orange is not as violent as I remember it- I saw it when very young, and when very violent films were not commonplace. I do not think it is unfair of me not to want to see it again.

In any case, the reason I object to Ledger's citation of the film is that I think The Joker is infinately more complex than any of the Droogs. They are childlike in their pursuit of violence, and I think that our villain needs to be much more cerebral. He is not a member of a counter-culture: that would be too conformist. He is a unique psychological mosaic of nuances and motivations. He is also not amoral, but rather immoral.

I retain some hope that Ledger made the comparrison only to highlight certain elements of the character- the predatory threat, the outlandish guise, the floral language, etc.

 

[Cinemaman]

So why didn't it make as much as spiderman???

Hope you're kidding.

You think that box office numbers really make movie to look great?

If it is so, then sorry me, but you sound like real idiot.

Spidey 1 was just good summer blockbuster and that's all.

BB was one of the bext superhero movies at nowadays.

 

[Infinity9999x]

This is definatley good news, the only thing that made me a little nervous was the "less about his laugh and more about his eyes" comment.

Now, I definatley want them to show the mental side of the Joker, get into his craziness and all that, but I just hope this comment means that they'll make him more subdued, because one thing the Joker isn't is subdued. I don't think that's what he was insinuating, but it just got me a bit nervous.

 

[Superman4ever]

Can someone give a brief summary of what Clockwork Orange is about? Because...I don't know, LOL.

Guys actin' a fool!

Like Bachlor Party but with killing and stuff! It's coming in from Blockbuster on Monday so I'll tell you then.

 

[StorminNorman]

As for my mind, if they make TDK as more like thriller with less action, then I will be disappointed just like a great number of fans

Joker should look like he was in comics, BUT with some changes in the details (to make him a bit more believeable and also fit in Nolan's vision).

But there should be as much action as it was in BB, and this time I want to see real fight (though I liked some quick shots in fights from BB).

I don't see why it cant be a thriller full of action. The story should be more of a thriller story, less big action scenes (like Superman Returns style action scenes) and more story based.

 

[Cinemaman]

I don't see why it cant be a thriller full of action. The story should be more of a thriller story, less big action scenes (like Superman Returns style action scenes) and more story based.

Agreed, but I'd like to see BB's quanity of action scenes.

 

[StorminNorman]

Agreed, but I'd like to see BB's quanity of action scenes.

Sure, however I wish they wouldn't of gone for the normal Summer Blockbuster final showdown thing they did with Begins. If they would of kept it lower key, it would of been perfect.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Well, it IS Batman.....there needs to be showdown between him and the Joker at the end.

I mean, we've got to face facts.....Batman needs to have atleast SOME Blockbuster aspects to it. Things that will get OTHER people excited. If they were making the movie JUST for us Bat-fans.....they wouldn't expect to the movie to make that much money b/c you catering to one crowd.

They've just got to find a balance. And, I'm sure they will. They did before.

 

[DavidTyler]

This could not be better news.

I have NEVER seen the Joker as a commedian. I think he's more of a wild card.

This darker take will definitely do away with the silliness that's been used to define the character up until now. In films, I mean.

 

[StorminNorman]

Well, it IS Batman.....there needs to be showdown between him and the Joker at the end.

I mean, we've got to face facts.....Batman needs to have atleast SOME Blockbuster aspects to it. Things that will get OTHER people excited. If they were making the movie JUST for us Bat-fans.....they wouldn't expect to the movie to make that much money b/c you catering to one crowd.

They've just got to find a balance. And, I'm sure they will. They did before.

Oh yes, there needs to be a showdown - there just doesnt need to be flying trains and huge explosions.

 

[Cinemaman]

Sure, however I wish they wouldn't of gone for the normal Summer Blockbuster final showdown thing they did with Begins. If they would of kept it lower key, it would of been perfect.

Agreed.

 

[Cinemaman]

Well, it IS Batman.....there needs to be showdown between him and the Joker at the end.

I mean, we've got to face facts.....Batman needs to have atleast SOME Blockbuster aspects to it. Things that will get OTHER people excited. If they were making the movie JUST for us Bat-fans.....they wouldn't expect to the movie to make that much money b/c you catering to one crowd.

They've just got to find a balance. And, I'm sure they will. They did before.

That's true.

 

[Killgore]

Guys actin' a fool!

Like Bachlor Party but with killing and stuff! It's coming in from Blockbuster on Monday so I'll tell you then.

Sweet little viddy. Colors don't look really unless you viddy them.

 

[vibeke_T]

are they wearing underwear outside of their pants

 

[Killgore]

I wanna see a sped up scene with Joker banging Harley Quinn to the tune of the William Tell Overature.