Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[Rasputin911]

Your right Bubba, there is no definitive Joker like actions. But answer me this, you didn't like TDKR or NML Joker then? Because they are much, much worse or "less conservative" than this Joker.

Good point. Not many people talk about the Joker in TDKR, which i find odd because i think Miller's interpretation is awesome-the creepy silence, the quasi-erotic attraction to Batman, and the final sick joke all make it fascinating.

Of course Miller went on to make him nothing more than Ted Bundy with a suit in All-Star, but whatever.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I really hate it when people say Joker was a homosexual in TDKR. He was just calling Batman that stuff to screw with him. He's been locked up for years, aching to screw with him again.

 

[CaptainClown]

does it really matter if he was homosexual? The guy kills boyscouts, still Jokerish to me.

 

[Doctor Jones]

does it really matter if he was homosexual? The guy kills boyscouts, still Jokerish to me.

I'm not saying that. I just think it was to screw with Batman.

Plus, seeing all those boyscouts dead was one of the most shocking things the Joker has done.

 

[Saint]

I was disappointed. Mine isn't an issue of quality, really, I just don't care for mob stories. That's not a spin I need to see put to Batman villains. It seem awkward and almost diminishing to see them placed in that box.

It was a good enough read, regardless. The only part that really stuck out for me, though, was the ending, and Batman's line: "To mock you."

 

[ultimatefan]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

 

[Doctor Jones]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

*Sean Connery like voice*

YESH!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

That is pretty much exactly how I feel about Joker. That is why I think he is the greatest villain in any medium, ever.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I was disappointed. Mine isn't an issue of quality, really, I just don't care for mob stories. That's not a spin I need to see put to Batman villains. It seem awkward and almost diminishing to see them placed in that box.

It was a good enough read, regardless. The only part that really stuck out for me, though, was the ending, and Batman's line: "To mock you."

Epic line.

 

[deathfromabove]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

 

[Rasputin911]

I really hate it when people say Joker was a homosexual in TDKR. He was just calling Batman that stuff to screw with him. He's been locked up for years, aching to screw with him again.

I don't think he was a homo in a sexual way, but he did seem to be in love with Batman. I read a good analogy once, which was that for the Joker crime and mayhem are like sex, and Batman is his partner. Doing it without Batman is like masterbation, i.e. not as fun. Kinda sick, but it makes sense

PS. What was the meaning of Batman's "to mock you" line? I agree it was pretty damn badass, but i am still trying to figure it out.

Was he saying that he leaves his chin visible to point out that he can be normal, while the Joker will always be a freak?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't think he was a homo in a sexual way, but he did seem to be in love with Batman. I read a good analogy once, which was that for the Joker crime and mayhem are like sex, and Batman is his partner. Doing it without Batman is like masterbation, i.e. not as fun. Kinda sick, but it makes sense

PS. What was the meaning of Batman's "to mock you" line? I agree it was pretty damn badass, but i am still trying to figure it out.

Was he saying that he leaves his chin visible to point out that he can be normal, while the Joker will always be a freak?

Yea I think it's that, Joker mentions that Batman is obviously not a monster like he pretends, that he is handsome underneath. Batman let's him know thats why he leaves this little "window", so he can show Joker that he isn't really a ugly, horrific monster and that Joker is and can't do nothing about it.

 

[ultimatefan]

I don't think he was a homo in a sexual way, but he did seem to be in love with Batman. I read a good analogy once, which was that for the Joker crime and mayhem are like sex, and Batman is his partner. Doing it without Batman is like masterbation, i.e. not as fun. Kinda sick, but it makes sense

PS. What was the meaning of Batman's "to mock you" line? I agree it was pretty damn badass, but i am still trying to figure it out.

Was he saying that he leaves his chin visible to point out that he can be normal, while the Joker will always be a freak?

I don´t think he literally does that for that reason, my guess is he said it just to push Joker´s buttons. Joker was trying to tease/mock Batman and he threw it right back at him.

 

[The Guard]

I was disappointed. Mine isn't an issue of quality, really, I just don't care for mob stories. That's not a spin I need to see put to Batman villains. It seem awkward and almost diminishing to see them placed in that box.

True. And...it's been done before, and done better.

It was a good enough read, regardless. The only part that really stuck out for me, though, was the ending, and Batman's line: "To mock you."

Agreed.

 

[BubbaGump]

Your right Bubba, there is no definitive Joker like actions. But answer me this, you didn't like TDKR or NML Joker then? Because they are much, much worse or "less conservative" than this Joker.

I happened to enjoy those incarnations (where did you get the impression I didn't? ). But I don't think they are worse or less conservative. NML Joker was pretty much classic 90's Joker. He puts all the cops in Joker make-up and lets them get shot by their peers. This was used by Nolan to a varying degree in TDK.

DKR Joker was still the Joker, albeit "worse" as you'd put it. But I actually like Miller's Joker more than Azzarrello's. I'm just not into his writing. The man gets amazing artists to draw his stuff, but he wrote For Tomorrow for god's sake...

 

[Sonic1002]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

qft

 

[BubbaGump]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

This is all very true, but you can't expect a person to like every single version of the character just because it's fresh and different. People will have their tastes.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I happened to enjoy those incarnations (where did you get the impression I didn't? ). But I don't think they are worse or less conservative. NML Joker was pretty much classic 90's Joker. He puts all the cops in Joker make-up and lets them get shot by their peers. This was used by Nolan to a varying degree in TDK.

DKR Joker was still the Joker, albeit "worse" as you'd put it. But I actually like Miller's Joker more than Azzarrello's. I'm just not into his writing. The man gets amazing artists to draw his stuff, but he wrote For Tomorrow for god's sake...

NML Joker did alot worse things than that, he was going to massacre dozens of orphaned babies.

This is all very true, but you can't expect a person to like every single version of the character just because it's fresh and different. People will have their tastes.

Oh yea I'm not saying you have to like all interps of Joker, I just dunno, don't get how people can say this interp of the Joker isn't, well, The Joker. He is, just a Joker that is dirtier and scummier. Much nastier. You could imagen there could be real guys like this. That's why I like it. Sure you read comics for escapism, but I also enjoys the stories that you could imagen are real. That's why I like Azzarellos 100 Bullets aswell.

 

[Saint]

The whole thing to me is like jazz improvisation, you keep a basic motif, and you keep doing different riffs ot it. I love the electric buzz Joker or the acid flower Joker as much as any fanboy, but it doesn´t mean you can´t take Joker into different directions and still retain the core qualities of the character. The Steve Englehart Joker is different from the Alan Moore Joker, which is pretty different from the Frank Miller Joker, which is different from the Chris Nolan~/Heath Ledger Joker, but they´re all interesting in their own way and still recognizable. So is the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker. And this is what keeps these characters interesting and fresh after almost 70 years, you can take them to different places and they still retain their essential quality.

Sure. I think this was a response to my criticism, so I'll clarify: my problem wasn't that they took the Joker in a different place, but that the place they took him is one I have no interest in--that is, the mob direction. Like I said, I just don't care for mob stories. At all.

 

[Rasputin911]

Sure. I think this was a response to my criticism, so I'll clarify: my problem wasn't that they took the Joker in a different place, but that the place they took him is one I have no interest in--that is, the mob direction. Like I said, I just don't care for mob stories. At all.

The mob is a pretty big part of the power structure in Gotham, though. Its the whole reason Bruce thought Batman was necessary

 

[BubbaGump]

NML Joker did alot worse things than that, he was going to massacre dozens of orphaned babies.

But he didn't. So how could he have done worse things that that?

If we're going by things "he was going to" do then TAS is without a doubt the most violent Joker ever. In Harlequinade he was going to nuke the entire city--which would massacre more than a couple dozen babies.

Oh yea I'm not saying you have to like all interps of Joker, I just dunno, don't get how people can say this interp of the Joker isn't, well, The Joker. He is, just a Joker that is dirtier and scummier. Much nastier. You could imagen there could be real guys like this. That's why I like it. Sure you read comics for escapism, but I also enjoys the stories that you could imagen are real. That's why I like Azzarellos 100 Bullets aswell.

This interpretation IS the Joker. But simply put--I don't like it. That's all there is to it.

 

[ultimatefan]

This is all very true, but you can't expect a person to like every single version of the character just because it's fresh and different. People will have their tastes.

I never said people should like all versions, I have my own favorite ones - The Laughing Fish, The Man Who Laughs, for instance. What I mean is, Azzarello´s version isn´t necessarily wrong cuz it doesn´t have Joker Venom or electric buzz, or because the violence is more graphic. If these characters are going to stay after all these years, you need to try different things, some will stick, some will not, some you may like, some you may not, but it´s necessary, and to me this version stands out and works for what it´s meant to be, and I´m okay with what it´s meant to be.

 

[Octoberist]

I've read it.

I like it for the most part.

I wish there was more to it, I guess. I love the art however.

 

[Doctor Jones]

One of my personal favorite panels of Bemejo's artwork where after Joker kills Bang Bang, he empties the bullets from his gun and it falls next to his shoes, I love that.

 

[deathfromabove]

after reading this multiple times and spending a few weeks absorbing the book and the art i have come to the conclusion that i loved it.



joker really reminded me of frank booth (capt. clown made that connection first) or alex delarge in that he was sadistic and cruel but often without real motive. he hurts people for the sheer joy of it. but like booth or delarge he still has a sense of humour. and thats not to say he doesnt still murder to prove a point. when he skins the strip club manager it is not a random act. the manager let him down and to show his displeasure the joker made him the main act. this is also probably the most obvious example of joker's humour intact.



and while some have complained that the joker has lost much of his charm i think what azzarello was trying to show is that the joker is not someone you would want to know, hang out with or be involved with on any level. he is not funny. he is a sick man and does very evil things. alot of joker stories tend to glamorize him as a character but in reality he is a human monster.



i think its also important to remember the story was told thru the view point of jonny jonny and so the characterization of the joker is going to reflect that. this might be part of the reason the joker seems less sophisticated because jonny is less so. also azzarello has said that he wanted to make batman's rogues behave like criminals as opposed to "super villians". he wanted to ground them in the same way that batman is grounded in pausibility.



thats also why we dont know exactly why joker was released, what was in the brief case or what exactly joker said to harvey. because jonny never knew neither did the audience.



i also love how batman was barely in the book but his presence looms at all times.



and the art is just amazing imo. that and i love how bermego draws the joker. some of the best facial expressions and physicality since killing joke.



now i agree that the joker has been stripped of some of his trademark flair but i feel that eliminating some of the more traditional gags fit the tone of this book.



i do wish it was a little longer. not that the story needed it per se but because i enjoyed the world the artists created i wanted more.