Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[Nivek]

Overall, it reads like fanfiction. Someone who knows the basics about The Joker, who's always wanted to write about The Joker, but who doesn't have much to say or show beyond how evil he is, which...we already knew. If Jonny Frost was more interesting, fleshed out, and relatable at all, this would have been an appropriate graphic novel. As it is, it feels like a "dream project" that's not terribly satisying.

Thanks Guard, thats where I stand on this.

 

[Rasputin911]

Captain Clown and Ace of Knaves brought up an interesting point in another forum: do you think Gordon/Batman had Joker released in order to purge the other mob bosses? Like a wildfire/plague to cleanse the forest?

Because it seems like Batman had his eye on him the whole time, but only stepped in when Harvey asked for help and Joker started killing random innocents.

It's the only plausible explanation for his release to me. But its puts the whole story in a different light.

 

[Hulkfan2008!]

what the heck happened to that fat guy who had all his skin taken off ?
i dont understand how that happened.

 

[Rasputin911]

what the heck happened to that fat guy who had all his skin taken off ?
i dont understand how that happened.

Harley seduced him to go backstage (see her beckoning with her finger), where Joker and Harley skinned him alive.

It was a sick joke - the guy ran a strip joint so they "stripped" him. Joker even "tipped" him with the dollar. Pretty twisted stuff.

 

[ultimatefan]

Johnny Frost was as interesting and fleshed-out a character as he needed to be, what´s fresh about him is he´s neither a superhero nor a victim or a cop, he´s a thug who sees the Joker as his big break, he represents our dark fascination with The Joker, how there´s part of us that enjoys and even admires his mix of genius and perversion, but that ultimately has to realize how horrifying and ultimately hollow a man like him is at the core of it. Johnny is the naive criminal who thinks Joker is just the ultimate criminal mastermind, that even his crazy actions all part of his master plan, till he slowly but surely realized it isn´t. And there´s freshness in it being a take that´s more grounded, without much of the prankster/circus clown Joker, but keeping his perverted humor, cruelty, nihilism and emotional swings.

If you expect that after 70 years and thousands of stories something done with The Joker will be a groundbreaking reinvention of the character in comics, you´ll be disappointed every time. Pretty much every good Joker story done in the last 20 years or so basically takes on the motifs laid out by his first appearances, Joker´s Five Way Revenge, The Laughing Fish or The Killing Joke. Even in TDK, a big part of the success of this portrayal is it´s takes on Joker that we saw in comics, but not on film, such as the nihilistic "philosopher" or the unstoppable serial killer who´s constantly two steps ahead of the police and even Batman. It´s jazz, you can make great riffs of it, but the motif will always be the same.

 

[batpawn]

Johnny Frost was as interesting and fleshed-out a character as he needed to be, what´s fresh about him is he´s neither a superhero nor a victim or a cop, he´s a thug who sees the Joker as his big break, he represents our dark fascination with The Joker, how there´s part of us that enjoys and even admires his mix of genius and perversion, but that ultimately has to realize how horrifying and ultimately hollow a man like him is at the core of it. Johnny is the naive criminal who thinks Joker is just the ultimate criminal mastermind, that even his crazy actions all part of his master plan, till he slowly but surely realized it isn´t. And there´s freshness in it being a take that´s more grounded, without much of the prankster/circus clown Joker, but keeping his perverted humor, cruelty, nihilism and emotional swings.

If you expect that after 70 years and thousands of stories something done with The Joker will be a groundbreaking reinvention of the character in comics, you´ll be disappointed every time. Pretty much every good Joker story done in the last 20 years or so basically takes on the motifs laid out by his first appearances, Joker´s Five Way Revenge, The Laughing Fish or The Killing Joke. Even in TDK, a big part of the success of this portrayal is it´s takes on Joker that we saw in comics, but not on film, such as the nihilistic "philosopher" or the unstoppable serial killer who´s constantly two steps ahead of the police and even Batman. It´s jazz, you can make great riffs of it, but the motif will always be the same.

i can't agree more with you. the comic ist deep in the core unbeievable philosophical. WE are jonny frost. WE love the joker although he ist just a sick, mass murdering homicial maniac. and the comic shows it with every page. it's almost like brian azzarello makes fun of us, like he is standing behind us while we read it, laughs at us and say's "so this is the man you love so much? welcome to reality." if you see it from that point, the comic book is a brilliant written satire, and i just love every single page of it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I agree with both of you, this book is subtlety deep. It is innovative in the way that it shows that Joker ISN'T a fun character, a likeable villain. Yea he is a murderer and sick, but in 99% of his stories he comes across as likeable. In this he isn't, it shows that he is truly a despicable person who in reality, no one would want nothing to do with.

 

[batpawn]

nd that's exactly what i thought when i read it. the first thing that came to my mind really was "oh my god, this guy really IS insane and I'm so glad that he is just a fictional character" followed by "oh hell, thinking about it, there really are people as twisted und crazy as him". and i think that this is exactly what azzarello wants us to think. as you said, in all the other batman comics he is a likeable villian because we basically see his actions through batmans eyes, and we all know that deep inside of him, joker loves batman. but in this comic, we got a view of the joker through the eyes of one of his thugs, somebody he doesn't really care about.

 

[Rasputin911]

I love how Azzarello took all the romance out of the character for this story: because from a henchman or victims' eyes, this is how the Joker would seem.

DC shouldn't do it in the mainstream comics, though. He has to keep some of the charisma and flair to make the Batman vs. Joker stories good. I think the "canon" Joker should be basically an uncensored version of the Animated Series.

I think the best part of this story though was Joker's interaction with the other rogues. His "buddy" treatment of Croc, his affection for Harley, mocking Penguin/Two-Face, and toying with Riddler were all perfect

 

[Team Andino]

Ive been wanting to pick this up for a while now but my friend says hes gonna get it for me for Christmas. I just hate having to wait for it, from what Ive heard its great and of course it looks great to

 

[Drz]

Captain Clown and Ace of Knaves brought up an interesting point in another forum: do you think Gordon/Batman had Joker released in order to purge the other mob bosses? Like a wildfire/plague to cleanse the forest?

Because it seems like Batman had his eye on him the whole time, but only stepped in when Harvey asked for help and Joker started killing random innocents.

It's the only plausible explanation for his release to me. But its puts the whole story in a different light.

Batman was fightning other criminals, check the scene before Jonny meets Two-face, the boy holding the newspaper shows an article about Wayne Enterprises and Batman stopping a crime circuit/circle.

 

[DeathRaven]

Finally got my hands on this, for what it is worth its an alright story. The art is my favorite part, but being the big azzerello fan that I am I found this one to lack a certain energy that I find in most of his stories. Im not quite sure what, but it didnt have that great bang that I always feel at the end of one of his stories.

I did like his take on the joker, and the other villains of Gotham. Joker was sick and insane, but just smart enough to out run every one else in Gotham.

Plus the whole end fight with Batman was cool, but overall not the best thing I have read in past years.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Batman was fightning other criminals, check the scene before Jonny meets Two-face, the boy holding the newspaper shows an article about Wayne Enterprises and Batman stopping a crime circuit/circle.

What has that got to do with the idea that Batman and Gordon ordered the release of Joker?

 

[Drz]

I don't know, out of character perhaps? I mean unleashing Joker wouldn't that truly question Batman and Jim's morals? I mean, technically speaking they would be murderers too for unleashing the Joker. >_>

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't know, out of character perhaps? I mean unleashing Joker wouldn't that truly question Batman and Jim's morals? I mean, technically speaking they would be murderers too for unleashing the Joker. >_>

Yea you are right. But that is in the normal Batman world. This is a completely different universe. I just think that is a possibility because Joker says a few times that Batman is watching him, he even claims that he is doing his "dirty work" at one point, right before he plays russian roulette. And how else could he of been released?

 

[Drz]

Well you do bring a good point, but we can't really say what Brian thought when he wanted Joker released.

 

[CaptainClown]

Ya, this Batman seems like a guy who is very amoral. By releasing the Joker it seems that he would be able to "cut the head off the snake" in a way as the Joker will be taking back the power he had before. Joker has it in with the criminal underworld and would be an easy way to hit em where it hurts.

 

[CaptainClown]

Well you do bring a good point, but we can't really say what Brian thought when he wanted Joker released.

Just a fun theory to tossa round.

 

[-Crusher-]

Johnny Frost was as interesting and fleshed-out a character as he needed to be, what´s fresh about him is he´s neither a superhero nor a victim or a cop, he´s a thug who sees the Joker as his big break, he represents our dark fascination with The Joker, how there´s part of us that enjoys and even admires his mix of genius and perversion, but that ultimately has to realize how horrifying and ultimately hollow a man like him is at the core of it. Johnny is the naive criminal who thinks Joker is just the ultimate criminal mastermind, that even his crazy actions all part of his master plan, till he slowly but surely realized it isn´t. And there´s freshness in it being a take that´s more grounded, without much of the prankster/circus clown Joker, but keeping his perverted humor, cruelty, nihilism and emotional swings.

If you expect that after 70 years and thousands of stories something done with The Joker will be a groundbreaking reinvention of the character in comics, you´ll be disappointed every time. Pretty much every good Joker story done in the last 20 years or so basically takes on the motifs laid out by his first appearances, Joker´s Five Way Revenge, The Laughing Fish or The Killing Joke. Even in TDK, a big part of the success of this portrayal is it´s takes on Joker that we saw in comics, but not on film, such as the nihilistic "philosopher" or the unstoppable serial killer who´s constantly two steps ahead of the police and even Batman. It´s jazz, you can make great riffs of it, but the motif will always be the same.

QFT, well put.

 

[cokebabies]

Argh, I currently have this thing wrapped and waiting under my tree, so I have to wait another two weeks before I can finally read it. The only reason I know it's there is that I noticed it missing from my wishlist.

 

[Sonic1002]

I'd also point out that this story is coming from Jonny's perspective, so the descriptions and events and characterizations will be skewed because of Jonny's perception of events.

 

[deathfromabove]

 

[Tonicky]

what the heck happened to that fat guy who had all his skin taken off ?
i dont understand how that happened.

He sold Jokers terratory to other gang bangers.

I don't get why Jokers a mob boss in this .

Frost reminded me of Southpaw only with brains, they look alot alike.

Only thing I hated was Harley being a ****e.

 

[deathfromabove]

He sold Jokers terratory to other gang bangers.

I don't get why Jokers a mob boss in this .

Frost reminded me of Southpaw only with brains, they look alot alike.

Only thing I hated was Harley being a ****e.

but harley is not a ****e.

she poses as a stripper to get monty "the fat man" distracted but where do you get the idea she was a hooker?

 

[CaptainClown]

Harley? ****e?