Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[scatterax]

I can feel both sides of the reception this book got, and it took me a while too warm to it after a dodgy first impression. but in the end I have to say that while there are some very irritating flaws holding it back this book is definitely unique and that's commendable, and more importantly it achieves what it seems intended to do in its portrayal.

it's a very specific thing. maybe the characters are supposed to be one-note and "predictable"?. I thought that was kind of the point of the end, Joker kills Johnny because he's a boring brainless tool. maybe it's supposed to feel violent and pointless?


but the worst thing about this book? it made me go out and order Man of Steel. which is completely and utterly indefensible in it's rudderless half-baked ****tiness. I wouldn't even feel right donating this to my local library which is what I usually do with duddy trades. I wouldn't want any kiddies or comic newbs to come anywhere near it. anyone want a free copy of Man of Steel?

um... so, what didn't you like about man of steel?

 

[Ziggyman]

Yo guys...I passd by HMV at the mall and saw the book there...Wonderin' if I should get it or not?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

It's entirely up to you man. If you want something that is out of canon and has brilliant art and is a interesting take on Batman's universe, go for it. But I would say it isn't to everyones tastes. But I really enjoyed it.

 

[Ziggyman]

So...Ace...You really liked it, eh?!?!

...I'll probably get some time within the month...From what I've heard it's pretty damn good!

 

[scatterax]

Yo guys...I passd by HMV at the mall and saw the book there...Wonderin' if I should get it or not?

what's HMV stand for?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea man I think it's great. It's got some brilliant art and it has an interesting take on Batman and Joker's relationship if you scratch beneath the surface, which seems a bit shallow at first. But there is some depth to it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

what's HMV stand for?

HMV is just a big store that sells DVDs, CDs, books all kinds of stuff.

 

[Ziggyman]

what's HMV stand for?

Man...I don't even know...Maybe it doesn't mean anything...But it sells like cd's, dvd's, games and so forth...

 

[Ziggyman]

HMV is just a big store that sells DVDs, CDs, books all kinds of stuff.

I like the way you think...!t:

 

[scatterax]

oh. haha. i thought it was an abbreviation for some comic book. like TLH for the long halloween.

 

[Ziggyman]

oh. haha. i thought it was an abbreviation for some comic book. like TLH for the long halloween.

Hahahaha...I can assure you, it is not my friend!

 

[The Joker]

Yo guys...I passd by HMV at the mall and saw the book there...Wonderin' if I should get it or not?

I'd say get it. But don't expect greatness from it. It's an entertaining story, but there's nothing special about it.

what's HMV stand for?

His Master's Voice.

 

[frakkingoff]

I've been confused about what happens with the bank robbery in this book (in the beginning), though now I have a theory and would like to run it by all of you.

I warn you, it's pretty disgusting, but please bear with me as I show you the evidence I have.

Just to recap: Jonny Frost drives Harley and the Joker to a bank, because the Joker has no funds. The Joker gets out of the car and heads into the bank. A few minutes later, he walks back, with a duffel bag full of cash and a photo of the bank president's daughter.

My original interpretation of the scene was that the Joker used the picture to threaten the bank president, who handed over the cash, for fear of this mad man killing his child. But that doesn't really jive with the dialogue and seems a bit...random.

So my current theory: The Joker decided to have a little "fun" with the bank president and made him *********e all over a picture of his own daughter.

It's sick and twisted, but in line with this interpretation of the Joker (doing sick and nasty things that he thinks is funny, but nobody else necessarily would - look at the rape scene later on, for example. A more tame example of his sexual humor would be the "rabbit" joke earlier in the book).

Now let me show you why I think this is what happened. This is the first close-up of the photograph:

As you can see, there's a prominent blood stain. But what I missed (and didn't catch until many months later) are the white droplets on the photograph as well. You can see the largest is on the bottom-left corner. There's another by the girl's knee, and one final smaller one at the bottom of the photograph, by her thigh.

The Joker also holds the photograph in his fingers like it's disgusting or delicate.

Here's the next frame:

As you can see, the big white gob in the bottom left corner has turned red. But the white droplets by the knee and thigh remain, and a new white droplet has appeared by the girl's armpit.

Finally, in the next frame, Jonny Frost holds the picture, shocked. Most interesting is the way he holds it in his fingers - like the Joker (but even more so), he doesn't want to be touching it.

I believe these white droplets are semen, and that the Joker played his own, sick twisted joke - made the bank president *********e, not only at the whim of a crazy psycho who could very likely kill you, but also all over a picture of his child (I don't know how he could do it under that kind of pressure, but I guess it was that or his life!)

This then explains the way Jonny holds the picture, disgustingly, like it's a **** rag (is there a better term for it? I apologize if my terminology is a bit gross - I'm not posting this for shock value or anything). If it was just blood on the picture, that'd be kind of gross, but I don't think this kind of physical response would be justified for just blood - these are violent criminals, blood isn't going to be enough to shock them. It takes something even more revolting to really make them feel icky.

This also goes in line with the next couple of lines of dialogue:

"Birds and bees, honey?" (an obvious sexual reference)

"I dig driving people, Jonny" (the Joker "drove" the Bank Manager)



Of course, this begs the question - what's with the blood?

One might assume that the white spots were just missed by the artist, and that they should've been filled in with red. But I don't think the artists would make a mistake like that (especially given the supporting evidence in dialog that this is supposed to be sexual imagery). Additionally, the white droplets are shaded, indicating that the inker consciously made them white, rather than forgetting to fill in with red.

Furthermore, the Joker states that "The alarm wasn't tripped, and nobody died." I get the feeling that the Joker didn't mutilate anyone (at least, not the Bank President - that would "spoil" the joke). Rather, I think the blood is there precisely so that you'd miss the semen spots without a very close reading and analysis.

In other words, I think the blood is a red herring (no pun intended), meant to let the true nature of the scene slip by the editors at DC. This isn't a Vertigo comic, and the cover doesn't indicate that the book is for "mature readers" (though I think it should) - so I think there's no way the editors at DC would let this kind of thing slip by knowingly. But the blood is such a distraction that it's incredibly easy to believe they'd miss the white spots (I know I did, and I'm willing to bet most others did as well).

(To be honest, I'm not even sure a Vertigo comic would've been allowed to include this - this is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in a comic)

Anyway, that's my theory and supporting evidence. I checked the internet to see if anyone else had come up with this (or an alternative theory), but didn't really find anything. I'm curious as to what you think - does the evidence support the theory? Do you believe it?

If not, what really happened?

 

[Drz]

I always wondered about the white drips too, and your analysis is scarily maybe close to the truth. >: ( But yeah this should have been a Vertigo comic but i guess DC preferred the extra cash from teens. =p

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Wow, never noticed those droplets either. Good spot man.

And your theory is probably true, I could imagine this interpretation of Joker getting a kick out of something like that.

 

[batpawn]

I'm actually suprised that noone else thought of this or - at least - that the joker had his way with the picture. When I read the comic for the first time, this was pretty much the first thing that popped into my mind. But noone else seemed to be "offended" by this. A friend of mine thought the same thing when he read it.

My theory for the "red" would also be that the colorist wanted to make sure that dc or anyone else in the business would let it slip through the testreadings, so they coloured the spots ultimately red besides some little white spots to still left a bit of meaning into it. Besides, while blood is thick, blood splashing on a picture doesnt look like this. especially since in every other panel in the comic that includes blood, the blood is drawn pretty thin. It really looks more like sperm than blood in that scene.

 

[CELTICPRED]

When I read it I was definitely confused, but didn't go that far into looking into it.

Pretty ****ed up but definitely along the lines of the book.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hmmm or maybe Joker wanked over it in front of the bank manager? That would be just as ****ed up, some sicko masterbating to a picture of your daughter in front of you, imagine that.

Actually, don't imagine that.

 

[zahanbil]

Hmmm or maybe Joker wanked over it in front of the bank manager? That would be just as ****ed up, some sicko masterbating to a picture of your daughter in front of you, imagine that.

Actually, don't imagine that.

This was my thoughts.

 

[titan101]

I've been confused about what happens with the bank robbery in this book (in the beginning), though now I have a theory and would like to run it by all of you.

I warn you, it's pretty disgusting, but please bear with me as I show you the evidence I have.

Just to recap: Jonny Frost drives Harley and the Joker to a bank, because the Joker has no funds. The Joker gets out of the car and heads into the bank. A few minutes later, he walks back, with a duffel bag full of cash and a photo of the bank president's daughter.

My original interpretation of the scene was that the Joker used the picture to threaten the bank president, who handed over the cash, for fear of this mad man killing his child. But that doesn't really jive with the dialogue and seems a bit...random.

So my current theory: The Joker decided to have a little "fun" with the bank president and made him *********e all over a picture of his own daughter.

It's sick and twisted, but in line with this interpretation of the Joker (doing sick and nasty things that he thinks is funny, but nobody else necessarily would - look at the rape scene later on, for example. A more tame example of his sexual humor would be the "rabbit" joke earlier in the book).

Now let me show you why I think this is what happened. This is the first close-up of the photograph:

As you can see, there's a prominent blood stain. But what I missed (and didn't catch until many months later) are the white droplets on the photograph as well. You can see the largest is on the bottom-left corner. There's another by the girl's knee, and one final smaller one at the bottom of the photograph, by her thigh.

The Joker also holds the photograph in his fingers like it's disgusting or delicate.

Here's the next frame:

As you can see, the big white gob in the bottom left corner has turned red. But the white droplets by the knee and thigh remain, and a new white droplet has appeared by the girl's armpit.

Finally, in the next frame, Jonny Frost holds the picture, shocked. Most interesting is the way he holds it in his fingers - like the Joker (but even more so), he doesn't want to be touching it.

I believe these white droplets are semen, and that the Joker played his own, sick twisted joke - made the bank president *********e, not only at the whim of a crazy psycho who could very likely kill you, but also all over a picture of his child (I don't know how he could do it under that kind of pressure, but I guess it was that or his life!)

This then explains the way Jonny holds the picture, disgustingly, like it's a **** rag (is there a better term for it? I apologize if my terminology is a bit gross - I'm not posting this for shock value or anything). If it was just blood on the picture, that'd be kind of gross, but I don't think this kind of physical response would be justified for just blood - these are violent criminals, blood isn't going to be enough to shock them. It takes something even more revolting to really make them feel icky.

This also goes in line with the next couple of lines of dialogue:

"Birds and bees, honey?" (an obvious sexual reference)

"I dig driving people, Jonny" (the Joker "drove" the Bank Manager)



Of course, this begs the question - what's with the blood?

One might assume that the white spots were just missed by the artist, and that they should've been filled in with red. But I don't think the artists would make a mistake like that (especially given the supporting evidence in dialog that this is supposed to be sexual imagery). Additionally, the white droplets are shaded, indicating that the inker consciously made them white, rather than forgetting to fill in with red.

Furthermore, the Joker states that "The alarm wasn't tripped, and nobody died." I get the feeling that the Joker didn't mutilate anyone (at least, not the Bank President - that would "spoil" the joke). Rather, I think the blood is there precisely so that you'd miss the semen spots without a very close reading and analysis.

In other words, I think the blood is a red herring (no pun intended), meant to let the true nature of the scene slip by the editors at DC. This isn't a Vertigo comic, and the cover doesn't indicate that the book is for "mature readers" (though I think it should) - so I think there's no way the editors at DC would let this kind of thing slip by knowingly. But the blood is such a distraction that it's incredibly easy to believe they'd miss the white spots (I know I did, and I'm willing to bet most others did as well).

(To be honest, I'm not even sure a Vertigo comic would've been allowed to include this - this is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in a comic)

Anyway, that's my theory and supporting evidence. I checked the internet to see if anyone else had come up with this (or an alternative theory), but didn't really find anything. I'm curious as to what you think - does the evidence support the theory? Do you believe it?

If not, what really happened?

damn , never thought of it like that before. that might've been what happened.

 

[CaptainClown]

didn't catch that but think its very valid and its definitly very interesting imo

 

[Nepenthes]

well frakking I was about to ridicule you and your theory, until I saw the drops. heh.

But still nothing says it's the bank managers own gunk. It could very well be the Jokers

 

[Drz]

Sorry to sound lazy but i failed to find the quote from Brian Azzarello's quote on what inspired Joker abit. Was it some gangster book or movie? If someone can help me out. 0=)

 

[CaptainClown]

Gangs of New York (Bill the Butcher)

also I don't care what he says but seriously Frank Booth from Blue Velvet

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I managed to watch Blue Velvet a while ago, definitely get a Frank Boothe vibe from Joker.

Azzarello also mentioned Chris Walken's character Frank White from King of New York as an inspiration if I remember correctly.