Yea I loved this portrayal of Joker, traditionally he isn't physically that threatening, but in this you could tell he can look after himself. He even goes toe to toe with Batman at the end, fair enough he's got a knife. I also loved the way he went mental in the bar then calmly offered that thug a drink, only to bottle him and stick the remains in his face. Reminds me of a typical Friday night!!
Finally finished reading it. I thought the art was great (I prefer the inked panels rather than the smudged "traditional" ones) but the writing was subpar. Not that I expected something more--it's just Azzarello being Azzarello. He just tries too hard to be hardboiled and gritty, and it ends up being trite and cliche. Additionally, I don't think this is the right direction to lead Batman comics, especially the subtle rape hints. It's like Azarello's been reading the TKJ rape threads and thought to himself, "hey, if they want it in a bat-comic--why not!"
I think the art is what everyone's been looking forward to, and it doesn't disappoint. But writing and storytelling wise, Dini's been redefining Batman comics for over 2 years now on Detective without having to go the grim, gritty, and ultra-violent route.
I have to disagree Bubba, i think the writing is the best part about it. Azzarello isn't writing it so he can hopefully take over, he's writing it as a one shot. This is like the Quentin Tarantino Bat-verse, it's supposed to be overly gritty and nasty.
Ya see I am the complete opposite, this is exactly what I want with a Batman series. I really like the dialogue because it is stuff I actually have heard in real life. I found it hardly cliche or even trite. It reminded me very close of Blue Velvet where the naive reader is tagging along with a wild mad man. The rape hint also made sense because as someone else said on here "Johnny raped Joker's trust so Joker raped Joker's ex" . The Dini comics are what I consider cliche and trite with predictable story lines. (my prediction of Hush wink wink) The story was pretty predictable though, however it is the direction I love.
Finally finished reading it. I thought the art was great (I prefer the inked panels rather than the smudged "traditional" ones) but the writing was subpar. Not that I expected something more--it's just Azzarello being Azzarello. He just tries too hard to be hardboiled and gritty, and it ends up being trite and cliche. Additionally, I don't think this is the right direction to lead Batman comics, especially the subtle rape hints. It's like Azarello's been reading the TKJ rape threads and thought to himself, "hey, if they want it in a bat-comic--why not!"
This is what I'm afraid of and the vibe I'm getting from the interviews. I don't like the idea of trying to make a comic uber-dark just to try and make a villain scary or hardcore, it reeks to me of lazy writing, especially the supposed rape implication.
I think the art is what everyone's been looking forward to, and it doesn't disappoint. But writing and storytelling wise, Dini's been redefining Batman comics for over 2 years now on Detective without having to go the grim, gritty, and ultra-violent route.
This is what excites me: writers telling great stories without having to kill a heap of characters or go as dark and gritty as they can every story. Oh well, I'm sure the movie fanboys who haven't read comics will have an great time over "Teh Darkness!" in this book.
I must admit, this book was great but disappointing. After hearing reviews, I thought this was going to be the second coming. Brian Azzarello did a good job, but definitely not his best. Go check out 100 Bullets.
I have to disagree Bubba, i think the writing is the best part about it. Azzarello isn't writing it so he can hopefully take over, he's writing it as a one shot. This is like the Quentin Tarantino Bat-verse, it's supposed to be overly gritty and nasty.
Eh Quentin Tarantino hardly writes gritty, it is very stylized and everyone seems to have an insightful opinion on everything. They are all written like different pov's of QT and not like different characters.
no, that wasnt the joke. he said maybe croc was hungry for some rabbit, and he had his pockets pulled out like rabbit ears, leaving his crotch as the actual rabbit. he pretty much told croc he can eat his d!ck.
no, that wasnt the joke. he said maybe croc was hungry for some rabbit, and he had his pockets pulled out like rabbit ears, leaving his crotch as the actual rabbit. he pretty much told croc he can eat his d!ck.
Eh Quentin Tarantino hardly writes gritty, it is very stylized and everyone seems to have an insightful opinion on everything. They are all written like different pov's of QT and not like different characters.
Well yea maybe "gritty" is the wrong way to describe Tarantino's writing, but I think you know what I mean.
Some people are saying it's written this violent just for the sake of it and for "shock value", to me this doesn't hold up. It's written this way for a purpose, that purpose is to show that these could be real people in our world. The part where Joker bottles that thug and stabs him with it could seem violent for the sake of it, but really, that sorta thing happens all the time. I just think the writing is so real, I could imagen people having convos like that in real life.
no, that wasnt the joke. he said maybe croc was hungry for some rabbit, and he had his pockets pulled out like rabbit ears, leaving his crotch as the actual rabbit. he pretty much told croc he can eat his d!ck.
I liked it. I didn't wait it like the Second Coming and I wasn't disappointed at all. Still, while good, it's just that - a good graphic novel, worth a read, but nothing more.
The story is pretty straightforward and actually has no hidden surprises.
It’s seen through the eyes of Johnny Frost, the newest henchman of the Joker who thrives to be more than he is and sees an opportunity for that when his new boss, the Joker, is released from Arkham Asylum and sets out to take back Gotham City.
Despite being straightforward and a bit stale, the story is not at all the most important thing here, so it’s forgivable.
The most important thing here is the Joker.
This is by far the most disturbing characterization of the Joker, period. It’s also the most realistic one, I think. Even the Ledger’s Joker of the Nolanverse didn’t feel so realistic, although he was far more charming. Actually, the Nolanverse Joker and this Joker look kinda alike, mostly because of the face-carved smiles they both have, but as characters, they are quite different. This Joker is not so drifted away in his own madness and actually has a very tight and precise grab on reality. Yet still, he is extremely sick individual. Can’t put my finger on some particular thing he did or said to make me feel so – it’s more of an impression from the whole thing – but that’s the first and only time when a Joker characterization really made me feel slightly uncomfortable. Most of times, even in the most acclaimed graphic novels about him, like “The Killing Joke” or “The Man Who Laughs”, he just feels like the cool villain type – you know, a nice, interesting character, sometimes enjoyably deep, but nothing really disturbing. This feels different, it almost leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Visually, he looks gross and disgusting, almost on par with the “Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On Serious Earth” look. The face-carved smile is like… five or ten times more gross and grotesque than the one in TDK and really gives him tons of creepiness. His facial features remind me a bit of Daniel Day-Lewis. His costume is interesting, gives him a nice gritty feeling. However, despite looking great, this Joker doesn't actually resemble clown at all.
However, not every character is handled that great. Two-Face, for example, leaves much to be desired, both in the visual aspect and in the characterization. For a guy, who is considered a First Tier villain, and almost on par with the Joker, here he was portrayed like a too weak and incompetent person. And he looked rather underwhelming and unimpressive, IMO. I think that an artist like Bermejo could have done more justice to Two-Face’s hideousness.
Harley Quinn, The Penguin, the Riddler and Killer Croc were done well enough, though they weren’t perfect. For example, I liked the characterization of Croc (who here noticed that he ate a human when he humiliated Jonny Jonny?), but his looks left much to be desired. He didn’t look reptilian at all and it actually made me wonder why they called him “Croc”. I am not saying that he should be a walking lizard like in the “Hush” storyline or “The Batman” TV series, but still, here he was just one ugly and big black guy. The Riddler was… cool, I suppose, though I don’t know why it was needed to make him a cripple; not that I have anything against people in such conditions, but it just didn’t seem to contribute for anything in his characterization, actions or motivations. The Penguin was delightfully pathetic person, but why the Joker kept calling him “Abner”, I never got it? Harley… now that was a change. From the annoying and overly joyful, yet spineless sidekick of the Joker in B:TAS here she has evolved into one silent b*tch with the blank face of a drug addict and actually was dangerously close of being a bad-ass.
Batman was boring as the Death itself, plus he didn’t actually appeared until the end when he
simply put down the gang of the Joker (made me wonder why he had to wait all this time for Two-Face to come begging for help and why he let the Joker and his gang to do all they did, since at the end he took them out without a real effort) and fought him.
But, I have to admit, he looked seriously awesome, as far as visual impression goes.
The seemingly main character – Johnny Frost – is a pretty uninteresting person, but he is never meant to be a great and intriguing character. He is just a tool to help us see the Joker from up-close. Still, sometimes I caught myself feeling sorry for the poor, doomed bastard.
All in all, it was a good read. Not great, but good. Highly atmospheric, it has dark and disturbing feeling, fresh approach to almost all the characters, one of the darkest, most realistic and most disturbing characterizations of the Joker EVER, great art by Bermejo and its worth to read it.
8.5 / 10
I think the art is what everyone's been looking forward to, and it doesn't disappoint. But writing and storytelling wise, Dini's been redefining Batman comics for over 2 years now on Detective without having to go the grim, gritty, and ultra-violent route.
just one point, in the context of 'hyper-reality' that Azzarello and Bermejo were going for in, making Croc anything other than how they portrayed him wouldn't have fit in. A reptilian, scaly man, while maybe not so dramatic as Hush for instance, would have cut against the grain of the book.
The more i think about it, the more i let it sink in, the more i think that this is a great book. All the elements are perfect. It's grim, realistic and FILTHY. It's how Gotham should be, and shows an interesting way to write characters that don't scream "COMIC BOOOOOOK!". The Joker is sick. And because of that, there's an uneasiness about the whole book. It's so tense, because you never know how he's gonna react to anything. Bermejo's art only heightens this. The man REALLY needs to be a regular artist on Batman.
This book brings us one step closer to possibly seeing Bendis and Brubaker on Batman. Their Daredevil stories are excellent, and where not as extreme as this graphic novel, it very well could be, or could be its own brand of gritty. There's New York, and then there's Gotham. That said, Bendis and/or Brubaker with Alex Maleev, Michael Lark or Lee Bermejo would be AMAZING. But i digress.
This book was phenomenal. It's not without its faults, but it's still a great book.
The more i think about it, the more i let it sink in, the more i think that this is a great book. All the elements are perfect. It's grim, realistic and FILTHY. It's how Gotham should be, and shows an interesting way to write characters that don't scream "COMIC BOOOOOOK!". The Joker is sick. And because of that, there's an uneasiness about the whole book. It's so tense, because you never know how he's gonna react to anything. Bermejo's art only heightens this. The man REALLY needs to be a regular artist on Batman.
This book brings us one step closer to possibly seeing Bendis and Brubaker on Batman. Their Daredevil stories are excellent, and where not as extreme as this graphic novel, it very well could be, or could be its own brand of gritty. There's New York, and then there's Gotham. That said, Bendis and/or Brubaker with Alex Maleev, Michael Lark or Lee Bermejo would be AMAZING. But i digress.
This book was phenomenal. It's not without its faults, but it's still a great book.
I was thinking the same thing, I want more stories like this. I hope the sales encourages them to delve into the grit Batman. They can keep superhero cliche batman I hope they do, I just want them to make a series like this.
I loved how everyone cowered when Joker was around. I love how he was like a father to Johnny but equally hated him. IT proves when it really comes to it, Joker only cares about Batman.
I was thinking the same thing, I want more stories like this. I hope the sales encourages them to delve into the grit Batman. They can keep superhero cliche batman I hope they do, I just want them to make a series like this.
I loved how everyone cowered when Joker was around. I love how he was like a father to Johnny but equally hated him. IT proves when it really comes to it, Joker only cares about Batman.
Yea, i loved that too. There's just an uneasy tension throughout the book that just makes the reader squirm because it's so uncomfortable to be around the Joker.
More comics should be like this regarding Batman. I mean, Daredevil manages to keep the rest of the Marvel Universe intact and look at it. The same can happen for Batman. You get the right writers and artists, and you can have Batman and Superman teaming up and make it awesome, like in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. The Batman/Superman chapter wasn't silly at all in concept. It worked both in writing and art, within that given world.
Yea, i loved that too. There's just an uneasy tension throughout the book that just makes the reader squirm because it's so uncomfortable to be around the Joker.
More comics should be like this regarding Batman. I mean, Daredevil manages to keep the rest of the Marvel Universe intact and look at it. The same can happen for Batman. You get the right writers and artists, and you can have Batman and Superman teaming up and make it awesome, like in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel. The Batman/Superman chapter wasn't silly at all in concept. It worked both in writing and art, within that given world.
Ya, when they downplay superpowers like Daredevil does and certain Batman comics I love it. I love the whole batman universe because its basically a bunch of crazies, I don't care about their powers as much as I care about how they are all a type of mental illness.
This is what I'm afraid of and the vibe I'm getting from the interviews. I don't like the idea of trying to make a comic uber-dark just to try and make a villain scary or hardcore, it reeks to me of lazy writing, especially the supposed rape implication.
I haven't read the book yet, but what exactly is lazy about unleashing a more horrific side of the character? One as gruesome as Joker? Hell, the censoring in comic books is probably the only reason why Joker isn't as violent as he could be. Rape included. People have no problem with him maiming random people left and right, but rape....just pushes the line? C'mon.
it would seem lazy in this sense: forgoing a reinterpretation of the Joker that still keeps the core dynamics of the character, maintaining a balancing act between your own take and the essential aspects of the character, to instead just have him commit "dark and disturbing" acts that, while dark and disturbing, don't fit very well with the Joker character. Like say rape or bursting out in tears . . . They have the Joker do those things, and because they did it first, they can be heralded as innovators, even if it is too far removed from the core character. I'm not saying that's what's happened, but that's definitely possible when you reinvent or reinterpret something so many times. You can eventually dilute the original qualities that made the character popular in the first place.
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.......I'm an idiot.
