Lee Bermejo and Brian Azzarello's Joker Graphic Novel

[CaptainClown]

I haven't seen Blue Velvet yet. Does that make me bad?

yes...yes it does

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yes...yes it does

Well then i shall correct this ASAP!

 

[deathfromabove]

yes...yes it does

i concur.

Well then i shall correct this ASAP!

do it now!!! you can pick it up on dvd for like 10 bucks. do it neighbor.

 

[deathfromabove]

so i just watched the king of new york and there are some really obvious references. i wrote down a few things...

Spoiler

frank white (walken) gets out of prison after a very long stretch. he knows the clock is ticking. castle/fortress symbolism in the prison. wears a long black jacket and has idiosyncratic hair. idealized eraserhead. very pale. nosferatu plays in the background at one point.

crosses a bridge. frank has cops following him around ready to take him out. has a celebratory reunion with his thugs and muscle. franks number two has a propensity for random violence and hysterical fits of laughter.

he immediately goes to work reclaiming his power by killing his way up the criminal food chain. after frank's request for his cut is denied white walks into a room and shoots one guy (an italian who might well have been eating spaghetti) at the head of the table at point blank range. everyone is so scared they do nothing. quickly regains control.

visual clues are left everywhere. in bermejo's art the painred shot of the gun smoking after he "bang bangs" is nearly identical to a shot of frank in the film. during a party scene a fly girl is wearing the same sunglasses as joker dons to rob the bank. there is also a shot of walken looking through glass as the city is reflected beyond that matches the shots of joker looking out jonny's window wondering how long before batman (the city) catches up with him and renders judgement.

insane shootouts with lots of cars. one ending with an antagonist cornered and outnumbered in a dark alley. later he is hung upside down as a warning.

more bridge symbolism. shady cops meet their makers. money is exchanged and laundered.

at one point frank white points a gloved hand and says "bang bang"...

i feel that frank also lends some inspiration to jonny jonny frost (besides the name, skin tone, and hair). the desire to leave a mark. the inevitability of their fates and the need for respect. the final realization that the city will not let them off the hook.

way past the point of coincidence i think.

highly recommend watching this.

oh, the king of new york is a twisted retelling/reinvention of the robin hood/sheriff myth. frank may be a drug dealer but all his proceeds go to keep underfunded hospitals open. not very joker like.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

so i just watched the king of new york and there are some really obvious references. i wrote down a few things...

Spoiler

frank white (walken) gets out of prison after a very long stretch. he knows the clock is ticking. castle/fortress symbolism in the prison. wears a long black jacket and has idiosyncratic hair. idealized eraserhead. very pale. nosferatu plays in the background at one point.

crosses a bridge. frank has cops following him around ready to take him out. has a celebratory reunion with his thugs and muscle. franks number two has a propensity for random violence and hysterical fits of laughter.

he immediately goes to work reclaiming his power by killing his way up the criminal food chain. after frank's request for his cut is denied white walks into a room and shoots one guy (an italian who might well have been eating spaghetti) at the head of the table at point blank range. everyone is so scared they do nothing. quickly regains control.

visual clues are left everywhere. in bermejo's art the painred shot of the gun smoking after he "bang bangs" is nearly identical to a shot of frank in the film. during a party scene a fly girl is wearing the same sunglasses as joker dons to rob the bank. there is also a shot of walken looking through glass as the city is reflected beyond that matches the shots of joker looking out jonny's window wondering how long before batman (the city) catches up with him and renders judgement.

insane shootouts with lots of cars. one ending with an antagonist cornered and outnumbered in a dark alley. later he is hung upside down as a warning.

more bridge symbolism. shady cops meet their makers. money is exchanged and laundered.

at one point frank white points a gloved hand and says "bang bang"...

i feel that frank also lends some inspiration to jonny jonny frost (besides the name, skin tone, and hair). the desire to leave a mark. the inevitability of their fates and the need for respect. the final realization that the city will not let them off the hook.

way past the point of coincidence i think.

highly recommend watching this.

oh, the king of new york is a twisted retelling/reinvention of the robin hood/sheriff myth. frank may be a drug dealer but all his proceeds go to keep underfunded hospitals open. not very joker like.

Way to go for making them comparisons man! The first time I read this, I thought of Frank White and The King of New York. I thought it was a influence on this story, but with the points you have made, I am now 100% certain of it. The whole look of Joker in this is like a twisted, ugly Frank White. The way him and Croc share a joke then embrace is almost identical to when Frank embraces Larry Fishbournes character. It's actually remarkable really.

And for the record, King of New York is a ****ing epic movie, pisses all over Scarface and the other over-rated gangster movies of the 80s IMO.

 

[The Joker]

I wasn't all that impressed. It was okay, I guess. The art is nice enough, but the story is very standard stuff, and there's just nothing new or terribly interesting here. I don't care about Jonny Frost, so it's hard to see him as an interesting character.

I think maybe people are misinterpreting the rape sequence, or at least, I think there's another possible meaning. It's possible that he didn't rape Jonny's wife to hurt Jonny. It's possible that he did it as a favor to Jonny because of what she tried to do to him. He was trying to make them even for when Jonny saved his life. Jonny obviously didn't feel the same, but...

Overall, it reads like fanfiction. Someone who knows the basics about The Joker, who's always wanted to write about The Joker, but who doesn't have much to say or show beyond how evil he is, which...we already knew. If Jonny Frost was more interesting, fleshed out, and relatable at all, this would have been an appropriate graphic novel. As it is, it feels like a "dream project" that's not terribly satisying.

Guard sums it up perfectly for me with these posts

I finally got around to getting this the other day, and after all the hype surrounding it I was expecting something really groundbreaking. I was utterly disappointed. It's basically a story about Joker going around Gotham committing various evil acts. Nothing earth shattering. And Jonny Frost was as dull as ditch water, IMO. Why should I care about this guy and what he has to say about Joker?

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun story and all, but there was nothing really deep or meaningful about it on the whole. It didn't showing anything new about the Batman/Joker relationship either.

Overall I think it's a fun story, but it's nothing special at all.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I finally got around to getting this the other day, and after all the hype surrounding it I was expecting something really groundbreaking. I was utterly disappointed. It's basically a story about Joker going around Gotham committing various evil acts. Nothing earth shattering. And Jonny Frost was as dull as ditch water, IMO. Why should I care about this guy and what he has to say about Joker?

Don't get me wrong, it was a fun story and all, but there was nothing really deep or meaningful about it on the whole. It didn't showing anything new about the Batman/Joker relationship either.

Overall I think it's a fun story, but it's nothing special at all.

Yeah, your post sums up exactly how I felt about it. If ALL the artwork was as good as those few panels here and there, I might have liked it more, if not just for the art.

I guess I've just come to expect more out of Bermejo after his past stuff.

 

[Killing Joke926]

*looks at reviews* So, is it worth the buy or no? Kinda gettin' mixed up with hearing "It's better than the TKJ (which I doubt highly)" or "It's one hell of a dissapointment."

 

[Ace of Knaves]

*looks at reviews* So, is it worth the buy or no? Kinda gettin' mixed up with hearing "It's better than the TKJ (which I doubt highly)" or "It's one hell of a dissapointment."

Na i wouldn't say it is better than TKJ. It's all up to you really man, if you are open to new ideas and different ways to portray the characters then i think you will like it. And I personally believe it is much deeper than what some other people are saying, the way Batman is treated in this is awesome. Like a mythical presence, just like he should be. This is from the POV of the crims, so Batman is not going to be in every scene, but his presence is always felt. So I personally reccomend it, but it's all depending on your personal tastes really.

 

[Motown Marvel]

*looks at reviews* So, is it worth the buy or no? Kinda gettin' mixed up with hearing "It's better than the TKJ (which I doubt highly)" or "It's one hell of a dissapointment."

its worth buying as paperback, not a hardback.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

^^ How much is the paperback? I think the hardcover is only like $20.

 

[iDannyR]

I got this as a present, it's pretty good.

I really like the art.

 

[Quinzel]

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got it the day it came out.
And i keep re-readin it.

And NO ONE breathes on it wrong. haha.

 

[Congo Jack]

its worth buying as paperback, not a hardback.

Is a paperback scheduled or have I missed it's release? Be nice if they included a couple of added incentives to stretch it out a little bit - Azzarello's story from BLACK AND WHITE and Bernejo's GOTHAM KNIGHTS covers.

 

[Killing Joke926]

Na i wouldn't say it is better than TKJ. It's all up to you really man, if you are open to new ideas and different ways to portray the characters then i think you will like it. And I personally believe it is much deeper than what some other people are saying, the way Batman is treated in this is awesome. Like a mythical presence, just like he should be. This is from the POV of the crims, so Batman is not going to be in every scene, but his presence is always felt. So I personally reccomend it, but it's all depending on your personal tastes really.

Very true; and after getting this today I guess I'll give you my full review after I read it a second time and rethink my thoughts.

 

[Killing Joke926]

Is a paperback scheduled or have I missed it's release? Be nice if they included a couple of added incentives to stretch it out a little bit - Azzarello's story from BLACK AND WHITE and Bernejo's GOTHAM KNIGHTS covers.

Dude!!!!!! You got the Dylan rockin' ya avvy!?!??!! You win!!!!

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I got this as a Christmas present(been waiting anxiously to read it) and I finished reading it today.

I absolutely loved it!

 

[S.D. Plissken]

Don't everybody start crying and freaking out on me, but personally, I thought this whole thing was ****ing dreadful.

It was like having someone smear crap on my face. Smelly, obnoxious, and unnecessarily in your face with no other real purpose but to be disturbing simply for the sake of being disturbing.

WTF were they thinking with 'Krazy IZE Killa' Riddler? **** me, that was horrible.

Lee's art is solid though--that was a plus.

 

[CaptainClown]

Don't everybody start crying and freaking out on me, but personally, I thought this whole thing was ****ing dreadful.

It was like having someone smear crap on my face. Smelly, obnoxious, and unnecessarily in your face with no other real purpose but to be disturbing simply for the sake of being disturbing.

WTF were they thinking with 'Krazy IZE Killa' Riddler? **** me, that was horrible.

Lee's art is solid though--that was a plus.

Nah don't worry a grip of people didn't care for it. Could you be more specific though rather then just what you felt of the overall thing.

 

[Grommers]

I thought it was a good understanding of the "joker", and a good way to flesh out the character.

Jonny Who? is all I have to say, he was just a dude telling a story. I didn't go in expect some ground breaking story, I just wanted to read a book about a day in the life of a madman, and thats what I got. I was satisified.

 

[CaptainClown]

I typically agree with statements like: It was violent for no reason. I have to say though that I felt it was all entirely necessary in this book. I felt that the M.O. of the book was to reverse the typical allure of the Joker and demonize him as much as possible.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea, as other people and myself have said before the whole purpose of this book was to show Joker in a bad light. The only way to make him look worse than normal was to make him like this. Of course Joker is a murderer in 99% of his stories, but he always comes across as charming or likeable. They have gone the completely different direction with this, to make you realize that in reality, this guy is frickin sick and you wouldn't want nothing to do with him. Unfortunately for Jonny Jonny, he realizes too late.

 

[The Joker]

I didn't like that Joker raped someone. Sexual crimes have never ever been the Joker's forte. And I didn't like that he skinned that thug alive. That's the kind of thing Zsasz would do. Not the Joker. I think Azzarello screwed up there. Those sort of evil acts are not the Joker's style at all.

Btw, The Ace of Knaves, your avvy rocks

 

[Dark Sentinel]

i havent gotten it yet..what does Two-Face look like?

 

[Rasputin911]

I didn't like that Joker raped someone. Sexual crimes have never ever been the Joker's forte. And I didn't like that he skinned that thug alive. That's the kind of thing Zsasz would do. Not the Joker. I think Azzarello screwed up there. Those sort of evil acts are not the Joker's style at all.

Btw, The Ace of Knaves, your avvy rocks

Why do people get all uppity about the skinning? He "stripped" the owner of a strip joint of his flesh. It was a sick joke. Very much the Joker's "style". Why do you think he's the only guy joker skinned? It was because he owned a strip bar.

You may have a point with the rape not being Joker's usual forte, but again, we've only seen Joker through Batman's/Gordon's eyes, where he's working his most intricate plots. We don't susually see his day-to-day, where a rape might be plausible.