Liefield's Cable #1 varient cover

[Aristotle]

Oh God yes...its too cartoony...and as much as Darthy boy is gonna hate it...too 'comic booky.'

Ooh..."Darthy boy"...he got you there Darth...

There's just something about Liefield getting bashed that makes me laugh, and I like laughing; it just makes me happy!

Oh of course. Honestly, I don't think we all hate him quite as much as we say we do. It's just so much fun! And he does REALLY suck. REALLY bad. But seriously, it's fun, in the way that reading Fashion SWAT on Something Awful is fun.

The Spanish Inquisition fit its time period. Draining sick people's blood with leeches fit its time period. The French Reign of Terror fit its time period. They were stupid time periods.

...oh c'mon, how could you leave out Hitler? It was EXACTLY the time for Hitler to make an appearance, and you blew it.

 

[Crosis]

Wait, JRJr doesn't have clean lines, a basic grasp of anatomy or an eye for detail?

Anatomy? Yes, he has a good grasp of that.

But I thought the details and clean lines were especially lacking in, for instance, World War Hulk.

Mostly, I think he just has too scratchy of a look to his art. it all looks unfinished to me.

 

[Darthphere]

Thats like saying look at stone carvings from the stone age with women with huge wide asses and giant breasts and say that you can see the fault in that now because its not anatomically correct art. Art is art...it fit their period and 200 yrs from now it will be still considered art. Take that as you will.

Art is subjective. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

With the way you have been so defensive about other peoples opinions on the subject, I'd have to say that's a concept you have a hard time grasping yourself.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

No, Ron Frenz's art is generic. Bachalo's art--like it or not--is pretty ****ing unique.

Like Darth said, its subjective ain't it? To me Chris Bachalo's work fits more for a saturday morning cartoon than a comic. He epitomizes that cartoony look and unimpactful artstyle.

For instance since Darth and Aristotle are great nitpickers of anatomy and comic books maybe they can give me a hand here:

I can see quite a few things wrong this picture:

1. Whats Emma Frost doing? Taking a big sexy dump?
2. The guy on the bottom doing the "Taz" the tasmanian devel impersonation seems to have extra cervical spine vertebrae.
3. The girl in the swirly green has a waist the size of one of her thighs
4. The girl behind Gambit to HIS left has her arms in the air...her left hand has thick rounded fingers and her right hand has point feathery fingers.
5. Iceman looks like he's trying to bust a nut.

 

[LemonSunday]

You do know that's not a Chris Bachalo drawing, right?

 

[Darthphere]

With the way you have been so defensive about other peoples opinions on the subject, I'd have to say that's a concept you have a hard time grasping yourself.

Not really, because I haven't once tried to impede someone from liking his art. You on the other hand, have tried to impede my hate of it.

 

[Darthphere]

Like Darth said, its subjective ain't it? To me Chris Bachalo's work fits more for a saturday morning cartoon than a comic. He epitomizes that cartoony look and unimpactful artstyle.

For instance since Darth and Aristotle are great nitpickers of anatomy and comic books maybe they can give me a hand here:

I can see quite a few things wrong this picture:

1. Whats Emma Frost doing? Taking a big sexy dump?
2. The guy on the bottom doing the "Taz" the tasmanian devel impersonation seems to have extra cervical spine vertebrae.
3. The girl in the swirly green has a waist the size of one of her thighs
4. The girl behind Gambit to HIS left has her arms in the air...her left hand has thick rounded fingers and her right hand has point feathery fingers.
5. Iceman looks like he's trying to bust a nut.

You do know that's not a Chris Bachalo drawing, right?

****ing classic.

 

[Anubis]

Lol

 

[SuGarRush]

You can't agree and disagree with me at the same time. Seems like you want to disagree for the sake disagreement...again how petty.



That has to be the worst analogy I've heard yet. Liefeld and Image came out during the early 90's when over-ripped muscular super heroe's and abnormally thin and scantily clad females were the norm. His artwork fit the time period. 'nuff Said.

I think what Darth was saying in that post, and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth, is that while Liefeld did manage to rip off Deathstroke in a terribly transparent move, Joe Kelly is the guy who actually made Deadpool who he is today. I have the early Deadpool issues SOLELY because it has DP in them. I didn't love the character until Kelly got ahold of him in the '97 run. And most Deadpool fans will agree, Kelly is the man who made Deadpool.
And Cable, man I just don't like him.


Oh and Liefeld sucks. (Wanted to keep up the spirit of the thread!)

 

[Aristotle]

I can see quite a few things wrong this picture:

1. Whats Emma Frost doing? Taking a big sexy dump?
2. The guy on the bottom doing the "Taz" the tasmanian devel impersonation seems to have extra cervical spine vertebrae.
3. The girl in the swirly green has a waist the size of one of her thighs
4. The girl behind Gambit to HIS left has her arms in the air...her left hand has thick rounded fingers and her right hand has point feathery fingers.
5. Iceman looks like he's trying to bust a nut.

0. As others have pointed out, that's not Bachalo.
1. Yeah, it's a silly pose, but no one ever said the poses had to be stellar. Comic books have silly poses on the covers and on the pinups all the time. I've frankly never understood why people blow **** over covers, variant or otherwise. They're just ****ing covers that you could get a free scan of on the internet.
2. He seems to be surrounded by a tornado, more than he seems to have extra cervical spine vertebrae. As for any other anatomical discrepancies, this is SUPPOSED to look cartoony. That's the style. Liefeld went for realism, which makes his art look worse BY COMPARISON TO THE STYLE IT ATTEMPTS. That's a key factor here.
3. Again, I won't dispute that, but it's a stylistic convention, whereas Liefeld's style was SUPPOSED TO BE REALISM.
4. No, the thumb on the other hand looks just like the fingers on the dynamically foreshortened hand. I believe what you're missing is the concept of "perspective," which is being served by the "feather" fingers.
5. Or taking a dukie. So the piece isn't perfect. Nobody here said it was. But it's nothing REMOTELY on the level of unviewable crap that Liefeld's stuff is.

 

[gothicFLAVOURS]

It's Humberto Ramos, not Bachalo, and he's way worse than Bachalo. Besides, they're not Emma Frost and Iceman, they're Malice and Prism.

This is the one Bachalo drew:

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

You do know that's not a Chris Bachalo drawing, right?

Close enough. Ramos and Bachalo have that same cartoon style for their art.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

It's Humberto Ramos, not Bachalo, and he's way worse than Bachalo. Besides, they're not Emma Frost and Iceman, they're Malice and Prism.

This is the one Bachalo drew:

Well for the sake of nitpicking Cable has no elbow again. Wolverine is missing a foot...actually everybody is missing their feet. Does Bachalo hate drawing feet too?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

0. As others have pointed out, that's not Bachalo.
1. Yeah, it's a silly pose, but no one ever said the poses had to be stellar. Comic books have silly poses on the covers and on the pinups all the time. I've frankly never understood why people blow **** over covers, variant or otherwise. They're just ****ing covers that you could get a free scan of on the internet.
2. He seems to be surrounded by a tornado, more than he seems to have extra cervical spine vertebrae. As for any other anatomical discrepancies, this is SUPPOSED to look cartoony. That's the style. Liefeld went for realism, which makes his art look worse BY COMPARISON TO THE STYLE IT ATTEMPTS. That's a key factor here.
3. Again, I won't dispute that, but it's a stylistic convention, whereas Liefeld's style was SUPPOSED TO BE REALISM.
4. No, the thumb on the other hand looks just like the fingers on the dynamically foreshortened hand. I believe what you're missing is the concept of "perspective," which is being served by the "feather" fingers.
5. Or taking a dukie. So the piece isn't perfect. Nobody here said it was. But it's nothing REMOTELY on the level of unviewable crap that Liefeld's stuff is.

Since when does liefield go for realism? None of his artwork is realistic. From New Mutants to Youngblood, none of his art ever tried to portray the real world, real life people, or even resemble real life body anatomy. He draws oversized, flashy superheroes with big guns and impractical swords.

 

[Crosis]

You can't criticize things like that in art that is meant to be exaggerated. You just end up looking stupid, like you don't know what you're talking about.

Criticize this piece. It's done in the same realistic style Liefeld tries to emulate.

 

[LemonSunday]

Close enough. Ramos and Bachalo have that same cartoon style for their art.

That's like saying that anime and Disney are the exact same thing. You lost all credibility for your argument a while ago.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

You can't criticize things like that in art that is meant to be exaggerated. You just end up looking stupid, like you don't know what you're talking about.

Thats exactly my point. Liefeld never went for realism in his comics. If you look at his material, you can see clearly the writing and style was catered to 12-15 year olds who wish they can have big muscles and babes with big boobs. It'll never be real. Realism to me is a different art style that many comics today just simply don't have...unless it's an occasional cover here and there or short miniseries.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

That's like saying that anime and Disney are the exact same thing.

Ramos and Bachalo both draw X-men, both have cartoon styles...their perfect for comic books, but personally, not my style at all.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I think what Darth was saying in that post, and I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth, is that while Liefeld did manage to rip off Deathstroke in a terribly transparent move, Joe Kelly is the guy who actually made Deadpool who he is today. I have the early Deadpool issues SOLELY because it has DP in them. I didn't love the character until Kelly got ahold of him in the '97 run. And most Deadpool fans will agree, Kelly is the man who made Deadpool.
And Cable, man I just don't like him.


Oh and Liefeld sucks. (Wanted to keep up the spirit of the thread!)

Regardless of his past. I was just reading a little wiki and noticed not only was Deadpool created by Rob and Fabian, but New Mutants and X-force comics sales went through the roof under them. Obviously somebody liked their work.

 

[November Rain]

You do know that's not a Chris Bachalo drawing, right?

Best reply to anything in the history of ever....

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Best reply to anything in the history of ever....

Thats some mighty bland history.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Its pretty obvious many of you guys can't tell the difference between reality and comics. Comics are for the most part, (let's not even talk about the stories) meant to be exaggerated...and sorry to burst some of your bubbles, but majority are fantasy.

Personally I'm more offended if a character's writing is butchered. Thats something that sticks with the character no matter how many retcon's they do.

 

[Doc Destruction]

You can't criticize things like that in art that is meant to be exaggerated. You just end up looking stupid, like you don't know what you're talking about.

Criticize this piece. It's done in the same realistic style Liefeld tries to emulate.

If that is what Liefeld is going for, then he fails harder than any artist has ever failed at anything, ever. His crap doesn't even come close.

Oh and my critique? DAMN that iron spider costume is awful. There.

 

[yenaled]

I'm not even sure what the trust of the arguement is really.

Liefeld isn't a good artist he isn't trained about anatomy or perspective, he taught himself, and it is clear from his work.

If you think it is just his style that lets him down. Look at people like Jim Lee, Eric Larsen or even Todd McFarlane (aka the people that started Image with him) who were all enjoying the same popularity at the time of Liefield and often employed the same styles (the idea of "house style" was still widley used at Image, Marvel and DC when they were all working there) - you can see how much better artists they are just from their anatomy, background work, lines, etc, etc.

However, the best thing to say about him is he puts a lot of energy into his work and I can understand why someone who doesn't care about the art as much or maybe doesn't have such a trained eye - would enjoy it.