Comics Marc Guggenheim Interview...

[Themanofbat]

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110821-Guggenheim-Spidey.html

Some interesting tidbits...

 

[farmernudie]

MG: No, I don’t—and I have to say I’m very surprised. I knew there would be controversy; I knew it the second Joe pitched the events of ‘One More Day’. I was like, “Oh boy.” I honestly thought that a year in—and away from ‘One More Day’ and with a year of all these stories that the controversy would have died down and it hasn’t.

I don’t really read the message boards anymore but I do participate on a retailer website that allows industry professionals to talk directly to retailers. The same thing I keep hearing is that people don’t feel like this is the “real” Spider-Man because he’s not interacting with the Marvel Universe and it’s post-‘One More Day’ and the continuity doesn’t add up chronologically and that the whole situation feels expendable.

There are fifty million different criticisms of the book. Reasonable minds can disagree about how many of those criticisms are actually valid. I will say that, out of all the criticisms of ‘Brand New Day’, the one I absolutely disagree with is the notion that this is not Spider-Man. I understand all the complaints about ‘One More Day’—I really do; those complaints didn’t fall on deaf ears. However, the one thing that ‘One More Day’ didn’t do was alter continuity as broadly as people think that is has. All that happened was that Mary Jane and Peter didn’t get married. They still dated, they still were in love, and they even still lived together. I always tend to get myself into trouble when I talk about ‘One More Day’ because it’s ‘One More Day’—how can you not get in trouble for talking about it? (laugh)

So he admits that he doesn't read message boards anymore, but he is hearing all the same complaints from retailers (who talk to customers directly.)

The thing is, they must know then, by now too, that these fifty million devisive problems people are finding with the new direction are NEVER going to go away with many of these spidey fans.

Spidey now is very devisive and controversial now, here on out, as long as they continue to let the Alternate Spidey World created by the devil to continue.

It's not really about the marriage anymore, but HOW they forced it out of comics. How they altered the timeline yet want to force feed us that despite a giant change(s) in the time continuim...everything happened the SAME..which he tries to feed the reader again in this interview. That doesn't make sense tho logically. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

And, besides, they're trying to force a "new improved product" to customers that liked the old product and didn't want it "fixed". Good business owners listen to their customers. They sell them food for instance that their customers love and have always loved, and not what the cook likes.

 

[stillanerd]

So he admits that he doesn't read message boards anymore, but he is hearing all the same complaints from retailers (who talk to customers directly.)

The thing is, they must know then, by now too, that these fifty million devisive problems people are finding with the new direction are NEVER going to go away with many of these spidey fans.

Spidey now is very devisive and controversial now, here on out, as long as they continue to let the Alternate Spidey World created by the devil to continue.

It's not really about the marriage anymore, but HOW they forced it out of comics. How they altered the timeline yet want to force feed us that despite a giant change(s) in the time continuim...everything happened the SAME..which he tries to feed the reader again in this interview. That doesn't make sense tho logically. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

And, besides, they're trying to force a "new improved product" to customers that liked the old product and didn't want it "fixed". Good business owners listen to their customers. They sell them food for instance that their customers love and have always loved, and not what the cook likes.

You know, Guggenheim's "surprise" that readers still haven't gotten past One More Day reminds me of a story Denny O'Neil told on the History Channel on a "History of Superheroes" special. O'Neil was explaining the decision to do something about Jason Todd, since DC realized that the fans really disliked him. As we know, it was left up to the fans to vote via hotline and the decision to kill Jason Todd won. The thing is, since there were those who weren't reading the comic regularly, when the story broke that DC had killed Robin, most people assumed it was Dick Grayson instead of Jason.

Anyway, O'Neil says that one day, months after that, he was in a conversation with some guy at a drug store, and O'Neil told him he worked on Batman. The store owner got all excited and asked what Batman stories he did. O'Neil innocently told him, "Well, I oversaw the story in which we killed Robin." Right away, the store owner was shocked and then, announced to the entire store, "Hey, guys, you know who this is? This the jerk who killed off Robin!"

It was then that O'Neil learned that comic book characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. weren't just mere fictional characters and that they didn't just belong to the comic book companies. They were icons and institutions that were shared with everybody, and that comic book creators were inheritors and keepers of that institution. Seems to me like Guggenheim and the rest of the folks at Marvel should have listened to O'Neil's personal experiences.

 

[kguillou]

I agree with everything you said Farmernudie, its everything i've been saying throughout this whole ordeal. I dont wanna stab BND too much because they've been making some very enjoyable stories lately but there is absolutely no way that they're gonna make everything "fit" continuity wise, there's just no way. I'm telling you right now whatever the explanations are, they're going to require a huge amount of suspension of disbelief, cause some things just dont fit. Everything happened the same? So, Kingpin still got beaten nearly to death by Peter Parker and he doesn't remember it? Aunt may still got shot by the sniper,ok, does the sniper even know why he did it now? Does aunt may know why she got shot?? What about Peter, MJ and aunt may living with the avengers? How are they possibly going to explain that logically. Anyway i could ramble on, but the bottom line is there's alot of things that are never going to logically fit with the new continuity. The only way they'll be able to explain them is by relying of suspension of disbelief and telling us basically "Dont think about it too much."

 

[farmernudie]

If they know Spidey unmasked (Which is what they say) but can't picture his face....

Then if They still all lived in Avengers tower (Which is what they say) and can remember THAT...can they see Aunt May's face and MJ's...??

Because if so, wouldn't they all know who Pete is with Spidey hanging out with Aunt May and MJ???

Or....the Avengers are mindwiped and can't see ANY FACES in their memories?

Blurry old ladies, blurry red heads. Blurry Peter Parkers. They can only picture their bodies.

Like you said, Kguillou...it is NOT easily explained....NONE OF IT. It makes no logical sense now.

As I've said before, they should spend as little time possible explaining ANYTHING in this new world, though now it seems they are trying to explain it. Trying to reboot their reboot. The marriage happened, now it didn't. Harry died, now he didn't. THe devil did it, now he didn't. Everyone remembers everything, but can't remember everything.

And as stillanerd points out, MArvel is not listening to their fans or history. I mean, they've even tried to do this break up of MJ and Pete before. OVer and Over. IT fails and they start working on their next failed attempt.

If anything, this interview points out that while the creators are surprised that there is tons of resentment towards this reboot, and they are ignoring the internet...they still however are hearing these SAME THINGS from the retailers.
So, it isn't just the internet. Fans everywhere, as Guggs admits, have a million problems with this reboot, and aren't just accepting this force feed from Marvel.

It is like they're partially trying to make this reboot of OMD/BND go away, but can't, because every story takes place in THAT Pete/Devil created World.

 

[Styleshift]

You know, Guggenheim's "surprise" that readers still haven't gotten past One More Day reminds me of a story Denny O'Neil told on the History Channel on a "History of Superheroes" special. O'Neil was explaining the decision to do something about Jason Todd, since DC realized that the fans really disliked him. As we know, it was left up to the fans to vote via hotline and the decision to kill Jason Todd won. The thing is, since there were those who weren't reading the comic regularly, when the story broke that DC had killed Robin, most people assumed it was Dick Grayson instead of Jason.

Anyway, O'Neil says that one day, months after that, he was in a conversation with some guy at a drug store, and O'Neil told him he worked on Batman. The store owner got all excited and asked what Batman stories he did. O'Neil innocently told him, "Well, I oversaw the story in which we killed Robin." Right away, the store owner was shocked and then, announced to the entire store, "Hey, guys, you know who this is? This the jerk who killed off Robin!"

It was then that O'Neil learned that comic book characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. weren't just mere fictional characters and that they didn't just belong to the comic book companies. They were icons and institutions that were shared with everybody, and that comic book creators were inheritors and keepers of that institution. Seems to me like Guggenheim and the rest of the folks at Marvel should have listened to O'Neil's personal experiences.

Great post as always Stillanerd.
You too Farmie.

 

[farmernudie]

Thanks Styleshift!

 

[stillanerd]

Great post as always Stillanerd.
You too Farmie.

Thanks.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

You know, Guggenheim's "surprise" that readers still haven't gotten past One More Day reminds me of a story Denny O'Neil told on the History Channel on a "History of Superheroes" special. O'Neil was explaining the decision to do something about Jason Todd, since DC realized that the fans really disliked him. As we know, it was left up to the fans to vote via hotline and the decision to kill Jason Todd won. The thing is, since there were those who weren't reading the comic regularly, when the story broke that DC had killed Robin, most people assumed it was Dick Grayson instead of Jason.

Anyway, O'Neil says that one day, months after that, he was in a conversation with some guy at a drug store, and O'Neil told him he worked on Batman. The store owner got all excited and asked what Batman stories he did. O'Neil innocently told him, "Well, I oversaw the story in which we killed Robin." Right away, the store owner was shocked and then, announced to the entire store, "Hey, guys, you know who this is? This the jerk who killed off Robin!"

It was then that O'Neil learned that comic book characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. weren't just mere fictional characters and that they didn't just belong to the comic book companies. They were icons and institutions that were shared with everybody, and that comic book creators were inheritors and keepers of that institution. Seems to me like Guggenheim and the rest of the folks at Marvel should have listened to O'Neil's personal experiences.

I think that was the Special on the History Channel in which Joe Q talks about what nearly killed the industry back in the '90s... The Mega Crossover Events, Cover Gimmicks, etc...

 

[stillanerd]

I think that was the Special on the History Channel in which Joe Q talks about what nearly killed the industry back in the '90s... The Mega Crossover Events, Cover Gimmicks, etc...

You got it. And yes, I find his comments about the tactics used in the speculator boom ironic in light of Marvel's current tactics to promote titles.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Does he get a cookie for not using his gay marriage argument? So I wonder if Guggenheim's on his way out of the "brain trust" for his interviews.

First he uses that gay marriage argument during times when this is such a highly debated issue, and could in so many peoples eyes make Marvel seem like bigots behind the scenes. Despite the fact any reasonable person could see it was Guggenheim taking it upon himself to say that.

And now he's speaking in a way that's in contrast to Quesada and Brevoort saying, "Complain all you want. It's nothing, but rainbows, sunshine and lollipops with Spider-Man."

So how long till there's a gag order on creative along with no more letters pages to make things come off as successful?

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

You got it. And yes, I find his comments about the tactics used in the speculator boom ironic in light of Marvel's current tactics to promote titles.

So I'm not alone regarding The Q's comments... But what would the Q say if confronted with his expressions on that Documentary...

Joe Q/Modern Marvel are living proof of the phrase "Those who ignore History are doomed to repeat it"...

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

People, please! Get a grip! It's magic! It doesn't need to be explained! Stop bein' whiny fanboys an' just buy the damn books!

[/sarcasm]

 

[Venom 1988]

Regardless of my stance on OMD and BND, Guggenheim is a moron

 

[Styleshift]

Regardless of my stance on OMD and BND, Guggenheim is a moron

 

[farmernudie]

If they know Spidey unmasked (Which is what they say) but just CAN'T picture his face....

Then if They still all lived in Avengers tower (Which is what they say) and CAN remember THAT...can they see Aunt May's face and MJ's...??

Because if so, wouldn't they all know who Pete is with Spidey hanging out with Aunt May & MJ???

Or....the Avengers are mindwiped now and CAN'T see ANY FACES in their memories?

Blurry old ladies, blurry red heads. Blurry Peter Parkers. They (Avengers members) can only visualize people's bodies in their memories now??!!

^^The thing is, they should stop saying they are going to explain things, eventually, because how do you explain THAT logically??

Most things, if you DO actually think about things, do NOT make sense at all in the altered time continuim that Pete and the Devil created. MArvel makes it all worse by saying many things NEVER happened, yet they also want to say it ALL happened the same.

It is like holding a rabid cat in one hand and a banana in the other and trying to convince people they're totally the same.

 

[Styleshift]

^^The thing is, they should stop saying they are going to explain things, eventually, because how do you explain THAT logically??

Most things, if you DO actually think about things, do NOT make sense at all in the altered time continuim that Pete and the Devil created. MArvel makes it all worse by saying many things NEVER happened, yet they also want to say it ALL happened the same.

It is like holding a rabid cat in one hand and a banana in the other and trying to convince people they're totally the same.

All of the last few years have to be reworked to fit into continuity. Peter has become too close to the FF and Tony Stark for them NOT to wonder why they don't remember who Peter is. (Remember the family dinner they had in Spidey/Human Torch?)

Another plot hole is the fact that Peter and his wife had a separation. Which is now a break up. I definitely think they both would have started dating other people instead of spending a good while apart and than trying to reconcile.

From what I've seen so far I don't think they are going to "explain everything". I think they are trying to retain fan interest. Hoping they can keep some readers that don't like the new direction but still want to know the outcome. I strongly believe they are building to a "quick fix." Whatever the case it's definitely not going to be a total resolution.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh Styleshift, because of the mess and hole they've dug in spidey-land, if I were giving paid advice to the spidey crew, I'd say..."Try to not explain ANYTHING".

I only see it making things worse, because of the way the whole reboot was set up and is fundamentally contradicting from mulitple angles.

 

[stillanerd]

Yeh Styleshift, because of the mess and hole they've dug in spidey-land, if I were giving paid advice to the spidey crew, I'd say..."Try to not explain ANYTHING".

Except the longer they don't, it gets to be like the whole "baby May" question in which for years no one really knew whether MJ had a miscarriage or if the Green Goblin stole Peter and MJ's baby.

I only see it making things worse, because of the way the whole reboot was set up and is fundamentally contradicting from mulitple angles.

Oh, I think it's going to get really confusing moreso than it is now. That's because I'm starting to think that that Marvel's official explanation for why Peter and MJ broke up will be that one or both of them never made it to their own wedding in time--a wedding that took place during that period of missing time between the last time when Peter and MJ are together as husband and wife before Mephisto alters reality and history to when Peter wakes up in Aunt May's house to go to Harry's welcome home party in issue #545. Which means that not only did the wedding in ASM Annual #21 never happen, but neither did anything else in that Annual, meaning it's been completely thrown out. This would then make the past 20 years worth of issues not only just Peter and MJ living together but also an engaged couple undergoing a "trial marriage" as it were before they settled on a wedding date.

Does it play havoc with established continuity? Of course it does. But that's never stopped Marvel before.And of course, this will just make continuity even more confusing.

 

[Styleshift]

Except the longer they don't, it gets to be like the whole "baby May" question in which for years no one really knew whether MJ had a miscarriage or if the Green Goblin stole Peter and MJ's baby.



Oh, I think it's going to get really confusing moreso than it is now. That's because I'm starting to think that that Marvel's official explanation for why Peter and MJ broke up will be that one or both of them never made it to their own wedding in time--a wedding that took place during that period of missing time between the last time when Peter and MJ are together as husband and wife before Mephisto alters reality and history to when Peter wakes up in Aunt May's house to go to Harry's welcome home party in issue #545. Which means that not only did the wedding in ASM Annual #21 never happen, but neither did anything else in that Annual, meaning it's been completely thrown out. This would then make the past 20 years worth of issues not only just Peter and MJ living together but also an engaged couple undergoing a "trial marriage" as it were before they settled on a wedding date.

Does it play havoc with established continuity? Of course it does. But that's never stopped Marvel before.And of course, this will just make continuity even more confusing.

And yet they continue to insist that the only thing that has changed is that Peter and Mj were not married.

If they were so hell-bent on making Peter single again they should of had him make a heroic resolution right there and than that leads into Brand New Day.

Now we have subplot upon subplots that we know little to nothing about.

• The Spider-tracer killer
• Mj's bonus deal with Mephisto
• Does Mj remember who is under Spidey's mask?
• The D.B.
• The unmasking.

These subplots just aren't moving like they should. They make a reference towards them that alienates me. Such as Peter's reference towards the unmasking. I've read everything from Mackie to JMS OMD straight. I shouldn't feel like a new reader.

Menace is probably the best subplot in the book. I don't care for the character (I call him the goblin loser) but I must admit It's the only one that has kept a good pace and they have actually dropped clues here and there.

 

[kguillou]

Like i've said guys, I GUARANTEE you that when marvel does start filling in the plot holes, they're basically going to tell us " C'mon guys its just a comic book, it doesnt have to make perfect sense! Just run with it and dont think too much about. It worked for DC didnt it? Right??" lol.

There's just too many things that just cannot be explained logically that we're all just gona havta rely on suspension of disbelief. Marvel would have been better off saying that the last 20 years have happened differently and certain events changed.

 

[Styleshift]

Like i've said guys, I GUARANTEE you that when marvel does start filling in the plot holes, they're basically going to tell us " C'mon guys its just a comic book, it doesnt have to make perfect sense! Just run with it and dont think too much about. It worked for DC didnt it? Right??" lol.

There's just too many things that just cannot be explained logically that we're all just gona havta rely on suspension of disbelief. Marvel would have been better off saying that the last 20 years have happened differently and certain events changed.

Too late! Bob Gale has already insulted us "comic geeks" for being upset about continuity.

I love how some people say "well DC does it...."
yea, thats why I don't read DC often.

 

[farmernudie]

I can't come up with any other business's that insult their customers freely as (some at) Marvel have been doing lately with this reboot and not liking it.

Really rather odd...if you think about it.

I mean....even ignroing those that write in on the internet.

Where would Dell be, or Fritos or anyone...if they changed their product entirely against their customer's wishes, and said they knew better than their customers??

And if they then said..."we ignore everyone who writes on the internet" ...for instance?

Or if they said..."If you don't like our product, you must be against gay marriage"

Or if they changed their product and then claimed it is "the exact same"...stop complaining.

What other business could get away with that??? Just funny to actually ponder.

 

[Themanofbat]

I can't come up with any other business's that insult their customers freely as (some at) Marvel have been doing lately with this reboot and not liking it.

Really rather odd...if you think about it.

I mean....even ignroing those that write in on the internet.

Where would Dell be, or Fritos or anyone...if they changed their product entirely against their customer's wishes, and said they knew better than their customers??

And if they then said..."we ignore everyone who writes on the internet" ...for instance?

Or if they said..."If you don't like our product, you must be against gay marriage"

Or if they changed their product and then claimed it is "the exact same"...stop complaining.

What other business could get away with that??? Just funny to actually ponder.

But that's suposition on your part...

Who's to say that ALL the customers are insulted?

You've even admitted once before that you wanted to see closure in the life of Peter Parker, but we both know that can NEVER happen...

So inasmuch as YOU feel insulted, the Spdier-Man dynamic works better when he's single, and they want that character around long after both you and I are dead dead dead... so despite what WE might want, we'll never see closure to the life of Peter Parker, because if Spider-Man is to live onward, they felt like they had to return the character to the core of his roots that work best for him.

Did they take the best route? Not in my opinion.

But it was a path that needed to be taken, and as evidenced by some remarks on this very board, it's a welcomed path by many readers, so these people do not feel insulted?

You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time... and unfortunately, you're on the "not pleased" side of the fence at this time... but it's ridiculous (and a tad dramatic) to say that ALL fans are insulted.

Obviously, they're not.

 

[farmernudie]

True TMOB....not ALL customers are insulted or unhappy.

However, i was talking majority, and basing that on polls about the marriage and the reboot...that showed overwhelmingly most (consumers) support the marriage and didn't want it gone nor wanted an alternate timeline and history.

Not that I am advocating decisions being "done by poll", but that in this instance of years of quotes and blurbs from Joe, everyone knew very well WHY and WHO wanted what HERE.