Marvel over-load of negativity

[Red Mask]

Really? Tony Stark the domineering, amoral alcoholic? Peter Parker, the perpetually depressed, simpering ****weed who only becomes a hero because of what someone else thought he should do, and because of a situation that baldfaced self-interestedness created for him? Hank Pym, wife beater extraordinaire? Yeah, you're right, Marvel is the creator of the modern superhero. That's the problem.

No, the problem is keeping these guys is the same serial for decades.

Tony didn't start out as an alcaholic. The movie pretty much summed up why he's a great hero with his background. They even made the recent trend of changing the original use of a secret identity.

Peter Parker is supposed to be the working class superhero. He fights crime to make up for a mistake that cost him the life of his Uncle Ben. But they've kept him young, made him single again, because they don't want him to move on and still be Spider-Man.

The modern superhero isn't someone who's just born into greatness, like the Greek heroes. Most of them aren't descended from privilege or destined to be great. That lack of ego, or the initial destruction of ego, is part of why they're modern. They fight in a world that is no longer black and white.

 

[Anubis]

Spider-Man sucks.

 

[Red Mask]

Spider-Man sucks.

And I don't care for rich white people like Batman.

 

[Anubis]

Batman sucks too, plus he's dead you insensitive *****e bag.

 

[Red Mask]

Batman sucks too, plus he's dead you insensitive *****e bag.

I don't care if he's dead. He was still written as a rich white man.

 

[Xofenroht]

He's not dead. He's just a cave man.

Right?

 

[Anubis]

I don't care if he's dead. He was still written as a rich white man.

Oh, you're just the worst kind of person.

He's not dead. He's just a cave man.

Right?

How the f**k should i know? Alls I know is Superman showed up with his body all like "Hey! Look at my cool batman corpse!" (Not my bit, but I'm reusing it cuz it was awesome.)

 

[Docker2.0]

Look, I was gonna wait until you got older to tell you this, but I suppose you think you're a Man, so I'll tell you now.Sometimes, people have to do things that they don't like just to make ends meet. They might feel guilty about it later, it might be illegal or whatever, but hey...people have to survive.

And even then, there are some laws out there that are completely trivial or based on closed-minded perceptions of Right and Wrong.

One thing I do and I've been doing it since high school is working with Environmental Rights and Civil Rights groups. That's been going on for over 8 years now. I'm also an English Major, who minors in Religious Studies and Anthropology. Plus I write Horror.

So, I've gained quite a bit of insight into how morals and ethics vary from culture to culture. Which is why I have such a broad view of what moral and ethical behavior actually is.

There you go.

Whoa!

 

[Anubis]

They've been going at it all night. Get a room you two!!!

 

[deathshead2]

Oh, you're just the worst kind of person.



How the f**k should i know? Alls I know is Superman showed up with his body all like "Hey! Look at my cool batman corpse!" (Not my bit, but I'm reusing it cuz it was awesome.)

Superman now just has a corpse not a cool Batman one to hang on his wall.

 

[Red Mask]

Oh, you're just the worst kind of person.

Whatever. Spidey still has lots of family and friends. He even managed to win Mary Jane in his 1st sequel. That's a landmark compared to superhero sequels. What does Batman have?

"Gotham City. All the rest of you are just visiting."

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's the nature of obsession.

 

[Anubis]

It also smells kinda nice in small doses.

 

[Aristotle]

Look, I was gonna wait until you got older to tell you this, but I suppose you think you're a Man, so I'll tell you now.

Sometimes, people have to do things that they don't like just to make ends meet. They might feel guilty about it later, it might be illegal or whatever, but hey...people have to survive.

And even then, there are some laws out there that are completely trivial or based on closed-minded perceptions of Right and Wrong.

One thing I do and I've been doing it since high school is working with Environmental Rights and Civil Rights groups. That's been going on for over 8 years now. I'm also an English Major, who minors in Religious Studies and Anthropology. Plus I write Horror.

So, I've gained quite a bit of insight into how morals and ethics vary from culture to culture. Which is why I have such a broad view of what moral and ethical behavior actually is.

There you go.

What, you sold crack once so now you hate morality? Just because we can't always live up to them, and just because they vary from culture to culture, that makes ethics just too stupid to be used in comics? Wow. What a sad, bleak, depressed little outlook you have. You think the rest of us haven't compromised our ethics before? ****, dude, I've broken my own moral rules and I didn't even have to. I just did it because I'm a flawed person. Doesn't mean I believe in them less. God, what the hell kind of weak-willed person would sacrifice his entire moral system just because he ****ed up a couple times?

But thank you for confirming that you think I'm some Puritanical Manichean pseudomind, just because I don't think there's anything smart about abandoning the idea of living right. You've been trying to dodge that for awhile, and it's nice to see that you're at least being honest.

I'm a social worker. I'm trained to accomodate the ethics and values of others, and work for the goals of the other, and not the goals of me. Cultural and moral relativism are among our most basic tenets. And yet, we still have a code of ethics that we do. not. violate. Because it may not matter what your ethics are, but it matters that you have them, and that you work to maintain them and respect them and live up to them, because if you don't, you become not just less than human, you become less than an animal.

 

[Aristotle]

And I don't care for rich white people like Batman.

Oh yes, I much prefer whiny middle-class white people who think whining about something is close enough to a solution so they never just shut the **** up and do something about it. While Spider-Man's angsting out and selling his marriage to the devil to prolong the inevitable ****-and-piss-factory life of his worthless, mostly-dead aunt, Batman has gone to a foreign country, helped take down a dangerous militia, and begun the supervision and operational procedures of clearing the land of landmines. He's saved the world with a book of matches. He's saved the multiverse by brandishing a gun and talking so sternly that Darkseid shut up and let him finish before busting out the Omega Sanction.

Spider-Man, on the other hand, does whatever a spider can. Listen, bud, he's got radioactive blood. Oooooh.

 

[Anubis]

Like I said, they both suck.

 

[Xofenroht]

What, you sold crack once so now you hate morality? Just because we can't always live up to them, and just because they vary from culture to culture, that makes ethics just too stupid to be used in comics? Wow. What a sad, bleak, depressed little outlook you have. You think the rest of us haven't compromised our ethics before? ****, dude, I've broken my own moral rules and I didn't even have to. I just did it because I'm a flawed person. Doesn't mean I believe in them less. God, what the hell kind of weak-willed person would sacrifice his entire moral system just because he ****ed up a couple times?

But thank you for confirming that you think I'm some Puritanical Manichean pseudomind, just because I don't think there's anything smart about abandoning the idea of living right. You've been trying to dodge that for awhile, and it's nice to see that you're at least being honest.

I'm a social worker. I'm trained to accomodate the ethics and values of others, and work for the goals of the other, and not the goals of me. Cultural and moral relativism are among our most basic tenets. And yet, we still have a code of ethics that we do. not. violate. Because it may not matter what your ethics are, but it matters that you have them, and that you work to maintain them and respect them and live up to them, because if you don't, you become not just less than human, you become less than an animal.

You're putting words in my mouth now. You're placing labels on your self.

But now I'm a bad person because I'd kill another guy if it meant feeding my child or my mother? The fact that I'm willing to do that for the sake of another human being really makes me a bad person?

Breaking the law makes me the scum of the Earth? Even if I don't agree with some of the laws in place? There have been and currently are some laws which violate human rights.

I believe that it's up to the individual to decide what's right and what's wrong. Regardless of which they choose to adhere to, they still have to take responsibility for their actions. Legal or Illegal. That's just the way it is and that's the way it always will be.

I never claimed not to have my own morals and values. What I do claim is that they extend beyond the laws our government has set in place. That's common sense. It's called knowledge of "The Greater Good".

On top of all that (and this is strictly based on what you've been saying on these boards) you fit the image and ideals you've subscribed to me more than I do.

I think you're projecting. Especially since you still have no clue as to what else I might have on my book shelf and yet still insist on judging me as if it's your job.

You're just too self-righteous for my tastes. You could use some ***** once you take your head from out of your ass.

Peace.

 

[storyteller]

Its always darkest before the dawn and the DAWN is coming.

 

[fifthfiend]

I think this whole thread needs a big ol' group-hug.

 

[SpideyForPrez]

Why can't people just ignore the stuff they don't like? Why do they have to rant, moan, and yell at other people about it? You don't like what's in comics right now? Well then grow up and stop reading them!

Not that I have any idea what people are arguing about.

 

[Aristotle]

But now I'm a bad person because I'd kill another guy if it meant feeding my child or my mother? The fact that I'm willing to do that for the sake of another human being really makes me a bad person?

Breaking the law makes me the scum of the Earth? Even if I don't agree with some of the laws in place? There have been and currently are some laws which violate human rights.

What the f***? Are you even talking to me anymore? I'm a frequent user of illegal substances. What in the name of f*** gave you the perception that I believe in law?

I believe that it's up to the individual to decide what's right and what's wrong. Regardless of which they choose to adhere to, they still have to take responsibility for their actions. Legal or Illegal. That's just the way it is and that's the way it always will be.

I never claimed not to have my own morals and values. What I do claim is that they extend beyond the laws our government has set in place. That's common sense. It's called knowledge of "The Greater Good".

I thought we were talking about our recurring argument over the Marvel Universe's perpetual amoralism, not the justice of law.

On top of all that (and this is strictly based on what you've been saying on these boards) you fit the image and ideals you've subscribed to me more than I do.

Of an anti-moralist? I guess maybe when I say it's important for a person to have morals, you could interpret that as me saying it's NOT important for a person to have morals, but I guess I don't see why you'd want to do that.

You're just too self-righteous for my tastes. You could use some ***** once you take your head from out of your ass.

If I was self-righteous, I'd be pushing my moral system on others. All I'm pushing is the idea of having a moral system. And that's terrible, like stealing 40 cakes.

 

[Red Mask]

Oh yes, I much prefer whiny middle-class white people who think whining about something is close enough to a solution so they never just shut the **** up and do something about it. While Spider-Man's angsting out and selling his marriage to the devil to prolong the inevitable ****-and-piss-factory life of his worthless, mostly-dead aunt, Batman has gone to a foreign country, helped take down a dangerous militia, and begun the supervision and operational procedures of clearing the land of landmines. He's saved the world with a book of matches. He's saved the multiverse by brandishing a gun and talking so sternly that Darkseid shut up and let him finish before busting out the Omega Sanction.

Spider-Man, on the other hand, does whatever a spider can. Listen, bud, he's got radioactive blood. Oooooh.

So what? Spider-Man saved the Universe from Thanos. Superheroes will get into lots of crazy situations. Spidey has also gone to foreign countries. He's even gone to Savage Land. But he still has more friends and family than Batman. That's something money can't buy.

There are so many guys like Batman. They're white and rich. They take the law into their own hands. However, they were never as dark and lonely as what he's become. He can afford to do so much more if he only got help. He can even afford to make programs that aim to prevent crime instead of fight it. That's why I like Iron Man better. He's more convincing as the playboy billionaire who became a hero. In terms of vigilante justice, Frank Castle was more sane about it. He fought in actual wars and legally enforced the law before he became the Punisher. He can tell you the history of gun violence and gun control and rationally tell you why it doesn't work sometimes. In spite of the crazy adventures Batman has, he has never been written as a guy who really understands the law. That is a huge disservice to fans who enjoy reading him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually, Batman's got Spider-Man beat on family. Aunt May vs. Nightwing, Jason Todd (I think), and Robin. The number of friends they've each got is debatable to such a degree that I don't want to think about it right now.

 

[Red Mask]

Hmmm. No. Peter never had the serious arguments with Aunt May. Peter got to marry Mary Jane. The deal with Mephisto was dumb, but he did that out of love. As far as I know, most of the women who knew his secret, like Felicia Hardy, didn't do anything to hurt their friendship afterwards. He's had a good friendship with other heroes like Daredevil and Captain America.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Uh... okay? Like I said, I'm not debating anything about who can be called friends of either hero. I just wanted to point out that Peter has one living relative while Bruce has three, so in the family department, at least, Bruce is in the lead.