Born Again Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again General Discussion Thread

[Spider-Fan]

Dude, I'm not talking about Deadpool & Wolverine, but about the original Deadpool movie, which no one thought would've made more than $700M back in the day.

I know, but how is that relevant to Born Again?

 

[donuts]

You guys were talking about the potential of R-rated superhero adaptations.

 

[Lily Adler]

He still looks like a boy.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I'm enjoying it so far. It isn't the Netflix show and you clearly see the stitches but I've enjoyed the first three episodes.

 

[Venom 1988]

Daredevil: Born Again’s Ayelet Zurer Talks Initial Recast Confusion and How You Should Be Worried for Adam

'Daredevil Born Again' star Ayelet Zurer talks about brief Vanessa recast, state of the Fisks marriage and the Adam mystery.

tvline.com

"I never really quite understood why they made that decision to not keep not just me but more almost all the actors but Vincent and Charlie. But I can say that when they did change the creative and decided to go back to the original cast, I was very, very happy to join."

 

[TheVileOne]

The change was terrible and I'm glad the reshoots allowed for her to return. You can't just recast an actor for an important character like this without good reason. There was not a good reason here.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

My only real gripe with it so far is Wilson Fisk being an allegory for Donald Trump. Not because of how completely on the nose it is, but because its an insult to Wilson Fisk who'd objectively be a better leader than Trump.

 

[kguillou]

Even though overall I am really digging this show, I finally pinpointed something thats been bothering me since the beginning and I know for a fact I'll be alone on this hill. LOL. Its the new theme song. Technically, its a well composed piece from the Newton Brothers but personally its just so moody, sad and somber that it kind of puts me in a downer mood before the episodes start. See, Paseano's theme in the Netflix series was also moody and dark but as it revved up it became more heroic and kind of got you amped when it finished, kind of signaling the birth of a hero.

This new theme tho, its just sad and tragic all around and idk it kind of bothers me. It doesnt get you excited it just gets you feeling kind of down when the episode starts rolling. Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Even though overall I am really digging this show, I finally pinpointed something thats been bothering me since the beginning and I know for a fact I'll be alone on this hill. LOL. Its the new theme song. Technically, its a well composed piece from the Newton Brothers but personally its just so moody, sad and somber that it kind of puts me in a downer mood before the episodes start. See, Paseano's theme in the Netflix series was also moody and dark but as it revved up it became more heroic and kind of got you amped when it finished, kind of signaling the birth of a hero.

This new theme tho, its just sad and tragic all around and idk it kind of bothers me. It doesnt get you excited it just gets you feeling kind of down when the episode starts rolling. Anyone else feel this way?

I like the new theme vs the old one but that's just me.

Almost reminds me of Westworld's opening theme which was entirely underrated.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Daredevil: Born Again’s Ayelet Zurer Talks Initial Recast Confusion and How You Should Be Worried for Adam

'Daredevil Born Again' star Ayelet Zurer talks about brief Vanessa recast, state of the Fisks marriage and the Adam mystery.

tvline.com

The only counterpoint to her quote is, at least up until that point, we'd seen Cox and D'Onofrio in other MCU projects in the MCU-proper outside of the Netflix shows.

So if they were going to already be in the MCU, recasting them at that point wouldn't have made much sense. That said, without seeing Sandrine Holt's actual performance, I'm not sure why many in the fandom had such a negative reaction to her being cast. Admire Zurer all you'd like, as she's great in the role, but Holt wasn't even given a chance before the fandom basically turned on her casting.

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[TheVileOne]

The only counterpoint to her quote is, at least up until that point, we'd seen Cox and D'Onofrio in other MCU projects in the MCU-proper outside of the Netflix shows.

So if they were going to already be in the MCU, recasting them at that point wouldn't have made much sense. That said, without seeing Sandrine Holt's actual performance, I'm not sure why many in the fandom had such a negative reaction to her being cast. Admire Zurer all you'd like, as she's great in the role, but Holt wasn't even given a chance before the fandom basically turned on her casting.

Because there was absolutely no reason to recast her. I have no problem with Sandrine Holt as an actress, but there was no call or viable reason to recast Vanessa. It'd be like accepting a new actress as Karen Page. And frankly, I didn't see much negativity over Vanessa's recasting. I'm sure people talked about it, but it wasn't even as widespread about people whining about Ansel Elgort not portraying Han Solo in the Solo movie.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah, exactly. Sandrine Holt is a great actress; loved her on The L Word (“SHOW ME the money” if you know, you know…), House of Cards and Mr. Robot. I’m sure she would have been good in the role of Vanessa, but if you’re going to bring back Cox and D’Onofrio, I don’t see the sense in recasting Zurer. I doubt she comes with a huge price tag. There was some truly boneheaded decision-making with this series in its original incarnation.

It would be great if Marvel reached out to Sandrine about coming back to play another prominent character. But I’m glad Ayelet is still Vanessa.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think it was a scheduling issue that caused her recasting before the reshoots. And I'd be all for bringing back Sandrine Holt in another role.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I think it was a scheduling issue that caused her recasting before the reshoots. And I'd be all for bringing back Sandrine Holt in another role.

I don’t think it was though. In that interview, Zurer says flat out that she didn’t understand why they recast the role.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I think it was a scheduling issue that caused her recasting before the reshoots. And I'd be all for bringing back Sandrine Holt in another role.

Daredevil: Born Again’s Ayelet Zurer Talks Initial Recast Confusion and How You Should Be Worried for Adam

I dunno, this interview makes it sound like she legitimately doesn't know why she was recast, implying she just wasn't even asked

 

[TheVileOne]

So yeah, I got nothing there. Ultimately, I'm glad they course-corrected because it makes this season gel much better with the Netflix series. Not having Zurer as Vanessa this season would've been highly problematic to me since she's such a major character in Season 1.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What they were doing before was highly confusing to me. Cause it's clear they wanted to bank of the Daredevil nostalgia, hence bringing Charlie and Vincent back. But then they were just being vague about their canon status, and clearly wanted these to be variants at first. Which is antithetical to the preying off nostalgia this cause what people want is more of THAT Daredevil if you're going to use Charlie and such. Not just watching a dude that looked like him. So I am glad they course corrected, but kn the end it makes me think Feige and co are dumber than we think they are. Cause between this entire ordeal and their hesitancy to hire showrunners to manage their TV, Feige clearly had no idea what he was doing. Period

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah I like Feige more than most people here and even I am at a loss when trying to figure out what he was doing with the original version of this show. Like, if he wanted to just totally reboot it, then get new actors. But if you want to use the same ones, then use ALL of the same ones. And it’s not a Deadpool/XMen Origins situation where the original appearance of the character was universally loathed but the actor was the right fit so you just bring him back and ditch the rest. People loved the original show.

Anyway, nitpicks aside, I feel like Born Again is turning out pretty great. Perfect? No, but way more good than bad. Hopefully that will continue.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the problem is that a lot of these shows were produced independently of Kevin Feige and were done when there was a big split between Marvel Studios and Marvel TV. Feige had very little input in them. Case in point, a lot of the old Marvel TV regime were let go and handed their walking papers after things changed around.

Feige clearly resents and doesn't like the old regime, and he also resents their successes outside of the film division. It wouldn't surprise me if the resentment is derived from the issues with Ike Perlmutter.

Case in point, despite all the claims of ITS ALL CONNECTED, we'd never see connections between film and TV especially when they would make sense. Marvel Studios didn't like or give a crap about anything that was happening with Marvel TV or Marvel Netflix.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think the problem is that a lot of these shows were produced independently of Kevin Feige and were done when there was a big split between Marvel Studios and Marvel TV. Feige had very little input in them. Case in point, a lot of the old Marvel TV regime were let go and handed their walking papers after things changed around.

Feige clearly resents and doesn't like the old regime, and he also resents their successes outside of the film division. It wouldn't surprise me if the resentment is derived from the issues with Ike Perlmutter.

Case in point, despite all the claims of ITS ALL CONNECTED, we'd never see connections between film and TV especially when they would make sense. Marvel Studios didn't like or give a crap about anything that was happening with Marvel TV or Marvel Netflix.

He may, but it was his choice to use Charlie at all. He didn't have to do it at all. You cannot prey off nostalgia for that show, and then simultaneously alienate the people you're trying to appeal to by recasting. It's completely backwards

 

[Still Wynning]

And he just shot to the top of my list of cool celebrities.

 

[TheVileOne]

He may, but it was his choice to use Charlie at all. He didn't have to do it at all. You cannot prey off nostalgia for that show, and then simultaneously alienate the people you're trying to appeal to by recasting. It's completely backwards

OK but also keep in mind that D'Onofrio and Cox also had to push for these changes to be made and to bring back the other actors.

 

[Spider-Fan]

OK but also keep in mind that D'Onofrio and Cox also had to push for these changes to be made and to bring back the other actors.

Precisely. Hence why Feige doesn't know what he is doing. If he wanted a new Daredevil, then he should have cast all new people. In trying to prey off the nostalgia of the show by replacing key people and trying a new continuity with vague mentions of past events, he was introducing them in the most nonsensical way possible. Feige wanted to have his cake and eat it too by having the nostalgia without delivering the actual product. It was good to course correct. But it doesn't forgive the years of idiocy before that

Essentially the pitch Kevin was trying to do was like is I said "We are doing Episode 7, and Mark is coming back as Luke and Ford as Han. But they're not playing OT Luke and Han. They're new versions who maybe had some similar backstory as their OT counterparts, but they are new characters " and Feige thought THAT idea was good. Whether it hubris driving that decision or just plain stupidity, it makes me question Feige's decision making.

 

[Chris B]

Precisely. Hence why Feige doesn't know what he is doing. If he wanted a new Daredevil, then he should have cast all new people. In trying to prey off the nostalgia of the show by replacing key people and trying a new continuity with vague mentions of past events, he was introducing them in the most nonsensical way possible. Feige wanted to have his cake and eat it too by having the nostalgia without delivering the actual product. It was good to course correct. But it doesn't forgive the years of idiocy before that

Essentially the pitch Kevin was trying to do was like is I said "We are doing Episode 7, and Mark is coming back as Luke and Ford as Han. But they're not playing OT Luke and Han. They're new versions who maybe had some similar backstory as their OT counterparts, but they are new characters " and Feige thought THAT idea was good. Whether it hubris driving that decision or just plain stupidity, it makes me question Feige's decision making.

I haven't turned on the guy, but I wouldn't have a problem if Feige passed the baton to someone else after Secret Wars.

Regardless of the obvious external factors that have hurt Marvel post-Endgame, I'm just not sure he has the Midas touch he once did when taking into account some of his recent decisions.