Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

Storm is my absolute favorite character to wear an X. And while I agree she has not been given justice in the movies, I don't think this is an issue of her color so much as a popularity matter. She doesn't have the level of clout that Wolverine has, so they're not gonna focus on her as much. A solo movie wouldn't improve matters, IMO. I don't think they should flood the market with X-Men solo projects.

 

I absolutely agree, Chris. I think they're overdoing it with Magneto as is. Wolverine I only support to give more balance to the franchise.

Cyclops is totally ignored in the X-Films, and yuppies aren't complaining about the clearly pro-Canadian stance of the filmmakers, it's just the way it is.

I've been anti-Halle from day one. She just doesn't have the personality to play Storm on film, nor do I think the character is ever going to be properly adapted in the X-Universe as created by Bryan Singer. It's a damn shame, but I'd rather we stick to the mythology he made (And a shoddy job he did) rather than risk a Schumacher style jump in style.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say he did a shoddy job overall. But again, I don't wanna make this a race issue. When I see all the threads/posts that turn everything into a black issue-"Blade didn't have the Marvel logo/appear in the fighting games/have a trading card/ have this & that b/c he's BLACK!" Not b/c he's a foul-mouthed, drug dependent murderer, but b/c he's black. This is dangerous territory, to even bring this up. At some point it gets silly.

 

Indeed. The reason no one but Wolverine gets screen time is because Wolverine is ****in' WOLVERINE. He's the biggest draw in the MU this side of Spider-Man. Every other X-Man takes a back seat.

I really REALLY fear what Luke Cage is going to end up being like. It has so much potential, but I feel it's entirely likely it will end up being blaxploitation at it's worst

 

My all time favorite female comic book character is Storm, I've always like how strong she was when I watched the TAS as a kid. I think it's such a shame they made a crappy job with her in the first X-Men movie, though I have to say she had one of the most memorable scenes in the movie. They improved her in X2, but overall we don't know much about her. I just wanna hear they mention her African roots and even her claustrophobia, I also wanna know why she's so angry at humans.
I hope X3 does Storm some justice since (I think) she's the most popular X-Woman.

Next month you can see her in two videogames:
-Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects: I think she's the only X-Woman in this game and she looks so cool .
-X-Men Legends 2: Rise of Apocalypse: She's been a confirmed playable character since day 1, with over 10 powers (including lightnings, winds and blizzards) I think she'll be one of the strongest characters in the game. I can't wait for this one . Plus she'll have a lot of unlockable costumes. Bishop, another black mutant, will also be in this game.

 

I agree. The market is already flooded as it is. Plus after CINO I doubt the public will be all too keen to see a solo superhero movie with Halle in the lead.

I'd love to see Black Panther get adapted. Rumors were flying for a while about it, with Wesley Snipes as the lead, though now I prefer someone else since he's Blade.

 

I really, really want Djimon Hounsou for Black Panther. He really doesn't get enough parts in Hollywood for such a talented actor.

 

Halle was definitely miscast for Storm, but that wasn't the reason for her poor portrayal of Storm in the movies. IMO, Storm should have never been in X-Men. Instead, she should have been introduced in a later film, were she would most likely have been given what her character deserves. One thing I like about Singers films is that he doesn’t just add a character to the movie because they are popular (Like Gambit), but because they fit the story. And that was the problem with Storm. She did not fit the story.

Storm is finally getting a better role in the third installment, but I’m not sure she will be the Storm we know from the comics. Most likely she will have a few characteristics changed, like Rogue and Bobby.

 

Great choice. He was excellent in Amistad.

 

Storm IS the most popular X-Man behind Wolverine if not right there with him. She deserves to have her character respected on film and not sidelined just b/c the director doesn't like her. Storm deserved to be in the first, second and now third X-Men movie. Why should she have to wait until the story 'fits' her? If these movies were made properly from the get go and focused on the X-Men as a team then Storm could have easily been developed....along with Cyclops and Jean Grey as well, but alas they werent. Thankful they were made, b/c we would have X3 to look forward to.

 

Cyclops and Jean were well developed. Storm did not fit the story, and she shouldn't have been included. Beast was cut from X1 because of budget issues. Well, I've read the script that included him, and frankly that wasn't Beast. He was a doctor at the institute, and that was it. Well, thanks to him not being included in the first movie he is now in the third, and with the casting of Grammar, I'm sure Beast will be alot closer to his comic self then what was originally planned.

And the same should have been held for Storm.

 

You r absolutley correct. I just like Cyclops and personally feel he should have done...i dunno..more. But Storm's character was little more than 4th mutant on the right.....Halla also wasn't the star she later became...she was know...but she wasnt HUGE

 

For being such an iconic and recognizeable character, Storm was given a horrible role. I blame some of this on Bryan Singer. He has openly admitted that he didn't know what to do with Storm, and that her place in the films, was with the kids. Anyone who actually would sit and read the comics, would know that Storm is more than someone who takes cares of the kids.

I remember Lauren Shuller Donner first mentioned the idea of a Storm film. Now...was Halle miscast? Maybe yes, maybe no. I can picture Halle as being Storm, if she would get the chance to actually BE Storm. Sure...she's not tall, etc, but she can pull off the fury, the essence of Storm. Catwoman was NOT a good film at all, but she showed she could be powerful and feirce (I think I spelled that wrong)

 

Hmm...adding the Logan/Storm romance aspect to the movies..well, it could help or it could hurt depending on how they would do it. It the comics, yeah they've had kinda a flirtatious relationship, but it's never struck me as going beyond very close friends. In the comics you obviously have more time for character development and relationship development which is what's made Storm and Wolverine's friendship so perfect and touching in the comics. I think each time they've kissed it's given a lot of fans that chance to go "what if...." and then they went back to just being friends.

For the movie though.
Pro-possibilities: Through the course of the movie, Storm to learn to relax more and act instead of react all the time. This would bring her closer to Wolverine's characteristic and he could step in to help her not get out of control giving them a connection that is to this point lacking.
Since we never really saw much of a reaction from Storm to Jean sacrificing herself to save the others (yeah, I know, we didn't see much reaction from Storm for anything..), she could step in and provide Logan a shoulder to cry on and someone to confide in.

Con-possibilities: Given that it's a movie we could open up the film and have them already together and be expected to just be ok with it having happened "before this film started."

Actually though, from the conversations in X2, I'd more expect to see a romance between Storm and Nightcrawler develop. Remember how fascinated she was with his scars? And she was willing to trust his blind teleporting....and then he stayed with her in the rebuild Cerebro after being warned it was going to get cold...

For Halle as Storm. I've never really felt she was properly cast. Sure she brings big name recognition to the movie, but she just doesn't have the presence that Storm is supposed to convey. THe larger than life, you could worship me as a goddess, presence. From her face, with the right makeup, yeah, she could look like some of the artists renditions of Storm, but the wigs...they're bad... and while I've said other places that she's being kinda childish about complaining about Storm being underdeveloped (yes, Storm is under developed and underused in the movies), I can appreciate that as long as additional development and screen time were to be given over to all the characters.

I don't see the missing Storm pieces as being due to skin color as much as I suspect to the director/writer/movie crew not having any real idea how to properly utilize her. How do you bring in her background? And if you don't do it the same, how much complaining will there be? The backgrounds of Cyclops and Jean were left out as well, much I suspect for the same reason. Time constraints, and that wasn't really the focus of the movie. The backgrounds we did get each served a purpose for furthering the story. Rogues introduced not only the character who was central to the movie, but also gave the first indication of a dangerous mutant. We got parts of Xavier and Magneto's in order to reveal why they know each other so well and why they're opposing each other. Wolverine's parts that we got served to only make you wonder more about the parts that were missing and to keep you wondering why Magneto would want him.

My one great hope for the future use of Storm in the X movies is that we lose the speeches. That comes so much from the animated series of the 90s and just doesn't translate well to the big screen.

Storm solo movie. If its timed right, I think it could be a moderately successful film. It'll take some pushing from Marvel to get advertising out there to the casual movie goer to go see it though. Most of the other titles, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk. Those are characters who've been out there forever, have had their own comics for a long time and generally are seen as stand alones, and each really ties into family. Blade, he's never really been a main hero, and so his movies weren't marketed as Marvel Comics Blade. Instead the blade movies were marketed as vampire movies. Elektra...I really think Elektra was a mistake. THe movie ignored everything about the character from Daredevil really and failed to introduce properly the one recognizable villian. Storm unfortunatly could fall into that same category. She's got a large fan base, sure, but they're the X-Men fans for the most part I'd wager. Fans from the comics are going to expect something tied to the comics, while fans from the movies are going to expect Storm to be like in the movies (which would be a boring movie) and if Storm were to overshadow her own character in the X movies...well, then that causes another problem. Wolverine...I suspect he's got enough cross market recognition for Marvel to pull off a solo movie, any of the other X-Men....probably not.

 

Your fear is justfied with Singleton at the helm.

 

One thing i do agree with is the reason that Wolverine was thrust to the front
He is Marvel's second biggest Icon and also even in this day and age ppl like a "hero figure" in the lead of a film,and Jackman with his presence and look fitted that perfectly

Now this film coming up is hugely important for the character of Storm,it appears she is gonna have a lot more focus put on the godess part of her character with the battle with Pheonix plus of course the inpending relationship with Logan

The other 2 major Black characters that are up for adapting are both gonna show what hollywood thinks of Black superheroes and actors and their drawing power.Luke Cage i have a feeling will be made into some tacky "hip hop" movie geared more towards selling the latest Ja Rule single and subsequent merchandise than telling a good story
Black Panther should be epic and there is no other way to do him properly and the onscreen treatment he gets both in casting/directing and budget choices will say a lot about how hollywood views black heroes/actors as draws

 

To address the point Lightning put forward:

*The rumored Storm movie Spin-off: Marvel's answer to a DC Wonder Woman film?

I think it's more a case of Fox trying to bleed all they can out of the X brand,

*What realistic obstacles lie in the way of these productions ?

studio execs and them having the balls to put all they have into a production built around a black actor,i really don't think ppl's will be put off by a black lead,but unless the studio has the guts to go all out on one we will never know

*The rumored X3 relationship between Storm & Wolverine: Opening doors or closing them?

The door will really be opened when it's a Black man white woman IMO


*Do you believe that Halle Berry and Wesley Snipes are unfairly singled out by fanboys for their complaints for better treatment by Hollywood?

Snipes not really,Halle has been unfairly blamed for Storm IMO

*Are current black actors/superheroes overshadowed by their co-stars?

In the case of superheroes yes but not so much as actors IMO



*What do you think the future holds for these characters in comics, video games, toys, film and other franchises?


I think a lot will depend on what happens with Storm in X3 and how Black Panther is handled,they are so important to the black superhero community that if they are mis-handled then the future for heroes of colour onscreen is bleak IMO

 

Another interesting situation in Hollywood recently was Universal stopping production of Tru Blue,a film by Antoine Fuqua starring Denzel and Benicio Del Torro.the film was apparently "to expensive" given the dark subject matter (A Harlem drug kingpin smuggling drugs into the country in the coffins of vietnam soldiers),they figured they wouldn't make their money back,However right now martin Scorscese is making The Dpearted with Leo Dicaprio and Matt Damon and it is a dark thriller that won't be a blockbuster and yet despite being over budget and over schedule already, the production continues unhampered by the studio

 

Well...a lot to say here...

First, I don't think Halle/Storm was as short-changed as everyone thinks. Each movie had a display of her powers. She got plenty of screen time. But I have to balance that by saying that despite all that what wasn't present was Storm's strength and power. I don't think it's as bad as A1ant's statement, "fourth mutant on the right." But I think everyone's real problem is that the character isn't coming off charismatic, bold, or dynamic. Storm so far has been rather flat.
This may change in X3 and it may not. For all the complaining about Storm and Logan hooking up, at least they are giving her something to do, which could be seen as positive. Hopefully it isn't a cop out and there are some good ideas behind this potential plot development.
Is a Storm solo a good idea? For now at least the climate is wrong. CINO definitely put a blackeye on Halle as an action star. It's concerning that even if they made a great movie no one would see it because they already saw Halle in a "similar" role, and/or because that movie sucked.

As to Blade, right now he has to be the best black character to screen so far. I will give a nod to Al Simmons, aka Spawn, who many people forget. But Blade transcended race. Hell, Blade transcended comicbook. You didn't even need to know who he was, what he was about... blood, gore, vampires? People are gonna see that. Which is probably why they took so many risks and screwed up the third movie. After you establish a franchise and a heavy following on the labor of two spectacular movies, handing the job over to a rookie director with a hit/miss record as a writer isn't a very good idea. But the thing that made Trinity bad wasn't the movie itself. It was the fact it was overshadowed by two much better movies, and that it lacked the mood and tone of those two movies.
Will we see Blade again? We can hope. Wesley Snipes and Guillermo Del Toro want to make another and make it right to send the franchise off on the right note. But for now it seems our best hope is a Blade TV show. The Blade franchise will continue to make money for a long time. Merchandise is still popular. And having Wesley Snipes as the face on a multimillion dollar propety is not a bad thing. We have to hope that future minorities in Marvel films are treated with the same respect and care as Blade.

Connor Macleod
aka SonOfLogan

 

Say what you want about Halle, but Lightning hit the nail on the head; They just didn't know how to write Storm properly. For as little screentime as Cyclops has had, he's been a more developed character. He's had his moments of antagonism between Wolverine, however brief they may have been, exhibitions of his concern and love for Jean, especially in X2, despite being conspicuously absent for more than an hour of that film! We see his loyalty to Xavier, and all of that. But there's a lot of depth to Storm that's since gone untapped. They don't touch on her background, or her regal demeanor or her maternal quality, which is why I wish they had kept in a scene from the first film where Storm talks to Rogue after the history class and has to deal with Rogue's question about whether or not she can be cured of being a mutant. And Storm doesn't just stand around as she uses her powers, she gets down right theatrical with the s**t! She doesn't just call lightning from the sky, she can shoot it from her freakin' hands! The woman purports herself as a goddess, but shows none of those treats in the film. As for the accent, I think there could have been a compromise given one, on rare occassions have I heard black actors do incredibly convincing African accents(which is a bit of a shame), and two, Storm may have grown up in Kenya, but wasn't she born in New York, and lived there until she was at least four or five? I'd be more concerned with Storm just having a commanding, regal voice, regardless of the accent. That, if anything, would be something to fault Miss Berry. And even then, it's still the screenwriters' and the director's responsibility to try and pull that out of their actress. I've seen Halle do enough roles to know that she can find the qualities of her character if the filmmakers inform her of what's required. And one thing I've noticed in her demands to make Storm a more formidable character is that she seems to be staying informed about the kind of character Storm is in the comics. Everything she's demanded of the filmmakers to enhance Storm in the film are things us fans want Storm to be. So I don't know why so many try and re-interpret this as primadona behavior on her part. She wants the exact same things for Storm that fans want! How is that wrong?!

On the subject of ROLO, as Lightning has said, there's been presedence for a Storm/Wolverine romance in the comics for YEARS!! Long before the first X-Men film was even in development, there's always been playful fraternizations and whatnot between these characters. I even remember an episode of the Fox X-Men cartoon where Logan and Ororo were lovers in an alternate timeline. So for all the people who want to piss and moan about the filmmakers going in this direction, you can't say it's not faithful to the comics!


*The rumored Storm movie Spin-off: Marvel's answer to a DC Wonder Woman film?

I don't see it happening. And not due solely because of race, but just for the fact that female action films in general are always a risky proposition. You can get lucky at least commercially with films like the first Tomb Raider and Charlie's Angels movies, but both sequels failed critically AND financially. Catwoman and Elektra were dismal failures right out the box. Warner Bros. is will to roll the dice with Wonder Woman because she's arguably THE MOST popular female superhero of all-time. Storm may be a popular character within the Marvel Universe, but Wonder Woman has firmly cemented herself within all of comicdom, and has previously gained notariety in live-action through the 70s Lynda Carter series. Storm is a much bigger gamble.

*What realistic obstacles lie in the way of these productions?

Basically the history of recent female-fronted action films as I stated above in the case of a Storm spin-off. Black Panther, the fear I have with a possible film is that they'll cut out a lot of what makes the character who he is. An example, M.A.N.T.I.S. For those who may not know, M.A.N.T.I.S. was a character developed by Sam Hamm and Sam Raimi for a made-for-tv movie. A black scientist is paralyzed during an inner city riot and develops technology to allow him to walk, and he subsequently uses this technology to fight crime. As far as the film is concerned, he's the sole creator of the technology, and is aided by two African(not african-american, AFRICAN) graduate students. Obviously, FOX, the television network, had enough faith to turn the film into a series, and what followed was the epitome of white-washing. Gone were the african assistants, replaced by a white british guy who seems to have had more to do with the development of the M.A.N.T.I.S. technology than the black scientist, Miles Hawkins. Another white character is included, a young bike messanger who discovers Hawkins' secret. No longer does he fight ordinary criminals in inner cities and donate money to urban youth centers, he fights superpowered frankenstein-like individuals and mad scientiests in upscale metropolises. I fear filmmakers will not properly include the technological aspects of Wakandan society, giving them the sole credit they deserve to have for their advancements. As for Luke Cage, I think they could either go the "hip-hop gangsta" route with him, which would parallel the 70s blacksploitation overtones of his character anyway, or they could completely reimagine him as they did with Blade.

*The rumored X3 relationship between Storm & Wolverine: Opening doors or closing them?

I don't think it's about opening or closing doors. From a studio standpoint, it's two of their hottest stars in the franchise and in Hollywood gettin' it on for gettin' it on's sake. Whether it opens or closes doors only time will tell.

*Do you believe that Halle Berry and Wesley Snipes are unfairly singled out by fanboys for their complaints for better treatment by Hollywood?

Halle, yeah, because as I've said, all she's demanded of filmmakers is what fans have demanded for Storm since they were unsatisfied with her portrayl in the first film. Wesley is a victim of his own arrogance. He has a history of this behavior, and I've actually seen an interview he did when Singleton's Shaft film came out, and he denounced the script as terrible, when asked about his being considered for the role. He further went on to say the film would have been better financially if he had starred in it. Furthermore, there's the infamous open letter to the press about New Line's alleged mistreatment of him during the filming of Blade Trinity. I'll elaborate on this on the next question.

*Are current black actors/superheroes overshadowed by their co-stars?

While Storm may not be the headliner, nor is she meant to be, clearly the character has been pushed a little to far onto the sidelines. Even Rogue and Bobby got more development than Storm in X2! Yeah, promotional materials featured Halle prominently along with Hugh Jackman, but once you get into the film, there's not that much done with her aside from piloting the Blackbird(and don't get me started on them neglecting to refer to the X-Men's jet as such!) and create a few tornados. There's no delving into her past or romantic hook-ups. She should be standing alongside the X-Men, not behind them. In the case of Blade Trinity, Snipes grievances weren't exactly unfounded. New Line and David Goyer seemed to make it pretty clear that they were looking to use Blade Trinity as a springboard for the Nightstalkers. To say nothing of the film's abundance of stuntcasting; Jessica Biel and Ryan Reynolds, despite impressive training for the film, were totally unexpected casting decisions given their previous roles in WB dramas and sitcoms, respecitively. The cast also included regulars from the films of Christopher Guest, Parker Posey and John Michael Higgins, not to mention Wrestling star HHH and comedian Patton Oswald. What resulted was more of a spoof of the Blade films than an actual Blade film. The actors who are known primarily for comedy are in the film to provide just that, thereby diminishing the seriousness of the main character. While I'm sure Wesley could have handled it better, I understand his frustration, as Blade had been a character he truly believed in and immersed himself in whenever he played him.

*What do you think the future holds for these characters in comics, video games, toys, film and other franchises?

In the case of Blade, I have little hope of the upcoming series being all that great. Call me simple, but I don't think Spike TV will provide a Blade comparable to the movie Blade, as say HBO or Showtime could. You would think if the series was going to be on cable, they would opt for a network with a little more leeway than Spike TV. Blade was a film that pulled no punches when it came to violence and gore and vulgarity. Much of this will be lost on Spike TV. Furthermore, Wesley Snipes IS Blade. Too much of Snipes can be seen in Blade to accept anyone else in the role.

 

Point blank, Storm is supposed to be the second in command of the X-Men. That's what the comics have gotten across, that's what the animated '90's series has gotten across. And a couple instances she did show it, like the climax of X2, but she still has yet to give off that "regal" aura that I feel that she needs. As far as a thing between her and Logan, I know it's in the books, but it would seem a tad forced in the movie to me, as I don't want them falling for each other in like 20 min. screen time when they've felt nothing or barely talked in the first two. I do think some more African American superheroines are needed in general, not in X-Men, but in comic movies, period. They're out there, but just aren't used.

 

1) I don't think this is an issue of race. I can agree that black people (among other minorities) are poorly misrepresented in both television and film. However, I don't feel that is the case with Storm. Her character has been poorly handled. The true pity in that, is the fact that Storm is such a powerful black character, that is being under utilized. The most depth we see coming from Storm in the films, is as a comforter. In the first film she comforted Senator Kelly in his death, and in the second film, it was Nightcrawler. That is a nice touch, but it leaves Storm as a shallow character compared to the other mutants who are more fleshed out or better characterized.

2) Interracial dating is a nice social achievement in this nation, but I see it is a mostly flat dynamic to explore. Storm is more than just the resident black chick. She is a strong female character. Constantly paralleling her to black issues may weaken the character more than strengthen her. I am all for her receiving a proper portrayal as a strong black woman, but I don't feel an interracial relationship is needed to perpetuate that. Love and relationships are what they are. Race is a superflous matter when love is involved. Nobody should be looking for some "factor" to play off of. If Ororo and James date, that is because that is the choice they reach as people. Not as a race....

3) People are continually disapproving of Halle Berry as Storm, but I honestly can't think of another choice, other than perhaps Kerry Washington. But unless you really know your black actresses, then the name will be lost on 90% of the public. I mean really...who else could look and act the role? Somebody too old like Angela Basset? Or perhaps somebody else obscure like Nia Long? I don't mind people dismissing Halle, but at least offer up some substitutions. Otherwise, it is just baseless ranting.

Ultimately, Storm is a deep character. She is one of the few times on film (even if a comic film) that a black woman or black character in general, can be displayed without the cliche of steroetype and and other well known ideologies. Storm doesn't have to wiggle her head and snap fingers. She doen't need to date a whie man. She doesn't need to be a spokes person for black america. As long as she is the strong and independent woman she has been portrayed as in the comic books, she will speak the loudest in her actions...