Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[Connor MacLeod]

When speaking of the future of black characters in superhero movies, I am definitely nervous. Let's discuss a few of them...

Black Panther: What concerns me most here is that no one can agree that an AFRICAN actor would be best to play this role because a black lead can carry a film, but can a foriegn blackman do it? The best actors to portray BP have to be Djimon Hounsou (Gladiator, Amistad, Constantine) or Aewale Ainnouye-Abaje (Oz, Ace Venture, Bourne Identity). It would also be great to see some good African character actors like Issach De Bankole (Ghost Dog, Skeleton Key) in this film. But will people pay to see this character or these actors?
Bishop: Bishop is so screwed. X-Mania is gonna die down a bit before he can appear in a movie. And more than likely writers, directors, movie studios will probably use Cable instead of Bishop and then use that as an excuse not to cast Bishop. (ala Gambit) Bishop is by far one of my favorite X-Men. I would love to see a District X movie or even a Bishop solo. It may be the only way he makes it to the big screen. Oh, and Keith Hamilton Cobb or Malcolm Jamal Warner for Bishop.

Luke Cage: Powerman has the best chance to become a success. Why? For all the wrong reasons. Like Blade, Luke Cage will probably transcend comicbooks. The concern however is that it will be turned into a blaxploitation film, a 2-hour video, a over-glorified hood flick, or all three. I like Singleton, but not for this film. Tyrese as Luke Cage? Ridiculous. I want Powerman. But I want to see a new trilogy idea. Powerman The Movie, Iron Fist The Movie, and top it off with Heroes For Hire The Movie. Will it happen? I doubt it.

Connor MacLeod
aka SonOfLogan

 

[terry78]

I was gonna mention John Stewart within DC's confines, but so many fanboys on here are so rampant about him merely being a supporting player in an upcoming GL movie, it's kind of a moot point. The thing is, I don't want the characters totally defined by their blackness, but how much of a hero they are. I want it acknowleged that they are black, but I don't want it run into the ground, either.

 

[KenK]

I think filmmakers missed their chance to jumpstart Nona Gaye's career. She had been around but had never been a "name actress", seeing her in roles in the Matrix sequels and Ali, I think she could have done very well as Storm. Of course, it's still the job of the screenwriters and director to make sure they include elements of her character in line with what we've always seen in the comics. If that doesn't happen, the actress isn't gonna matter.

 

[Connor MacLeod]

The thing is, I don't want the characters totally defined by their blackness, but how much of a hero they are. I want it acknowleged that they are black, but I don't want it run into the ground, either.

Exactly how I feel. Blade was an excellent example of this.

 

[Arach Knight]

-I don't think Blade really fits in this conversation. Most don't even think of Blade as a comic book film. Most mainstream movie goers aren't even aware that Blade is an old comic book character. Wesley Snipes already has a strong following as an actor, not just as a black actor. So Blade is in a league of its own. Even though it was no where near as sucessful as Spider-Man or even X-Men, Blade garnered three films. That shows how different it is. Blade is just Blade.

-Luke Cage doesn't have to be "blaxploitation." As crappy as it was, Steel didn't turn out that way. Cage doesn't have to either. He is a tough guy who lives in the streets. It wouldn't be a stereotype. It would just be his character. But if it calmed people any, they could always team him back up with Iron Fist...

 

[KenK]

Yeah, Steel was just a poorly made film regardless. Steel was made not for love of the character, but as a 90-minute Shaquille O'Neal commercial. Note all the in-jokes that reference Shaquille, especially one of him trying to toss a balled-up paper into a trash can, missing, and saying, "I never could make the free throws."

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

3) People are continually disapproving of Halle Berry as Storm, but I honestly can't think of another choice, other than perhaps Kerry Washington. But unless you really know your black actresses, then the name will be lost on 90% of the public. I mean really...who else could look and act the role? Somebody too old like Angela Basset? Or perhaps somebody else obscure like Nia Long? I don't mind people dismissing Halle, but at least offer up some substitutions. Otherwise, it is just baseless ranting.

Call me unorthodox...but Beverly Johnson was born to play Storm in my opinion.

She's 5'11, regal and elegant. A bad-ass actress...and these are relatively recent pics; she's 47 years old here.

I just want to know who else FOX was considering back in 2000 aside from Halle Berry for the role of Storm. The fact that they'd cast someone fairskinned and petite for this character when other actresses like this were available (and Beverly has that deep throaty voice that Storm has--I can just imagine her shrieking "The Wind Cries Storm!" LOL ) brings up the whole "one-size-fits-all" token black actress thing.

We know that Bryen Singer didn't want the character included anyways, so did he just say "Well fuggit!" and just cast the first pretty face he saw? To me, this betrays a lack of understanding for the character. I love Halle Berry, and I am looking forward to her in X3. But one look at her and it's blatantly obvious that the director/casting crew just didn't give a damn in casting Storm.

 

[Arach Knight]

She may be a good actress and tall enough for the role...but her age shows. I'd rather they cast Free from 106 and Park, than Beverly Johnson. But I do applaud the thought that went into that choice. That is much better than just saying Halle was miscast and then offering no other possibility. If Halle turned the role down, Beverly Johnson could fill in nicely.

 

[KenK]

I'd rather they cast Free from 106 and Park, than Beverly Johnson.

Wow, you're officially an idiot! I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but comments like this just don't make sense to me! I will agree that despite being beautiful for her age, you can still tell that Beverly Johnson's up there in age. But saying you'd rather they cast Free from 106 & Park?!?! Has Free EVER acted?!? Damn all that, what about the fact that she's all of five-foot-nothing! This is what we talk about, there just don't seem to be many viable alternatives that fit the character. There aren't that many high-profile black actresses to begin with, let alone ones who are a closer physical match to Storm, and can bring the qualities of the character to life. It's not a simple matter of hiring any black actress and slapping a white wig on her.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Wow, you're officially an idiot!

Ken!!

Remember my invitation requested sophistication? Um, yeah...let's keep it nice in here...there's so much to discuss. But I agree, Free from 106 & Park wouldn't be my first choice.

As far as Beverly's age, she's certainly mature, but Halle and Famke themselves are in the 40-year old range. Makeup, lighting and other tricks could have easily transformed Beverly into the consummate Storm. Plus, she's an underrated actress who excels with "in-your-face" fiery roles--something that Storm needs.

Besides, I think Storm being more mature would work fine for this franchise. After all, Storm is the Earth mother and Guardian of the group--and such protectiveness and respect comes with age. After all, the biggest weight in that cast comes from seasoned cast members (Pat Stewart and Ian McKellan).

 

[Arach Knight]

I didn't think it was possible to encounter two morons in a single morning, but KenK, you gladly proved that theory wrong. As if you can't read the sarcasm...maybe the part where I said Beverly Johnson would make a good fill in if Halle Berry turned down the role, wasn't enough for you to know that I approved of that choice. Do any people on Super Hero Hype actually read what the hell I say? Can you read worth a damn? My conjecture is no....no you can't. I clearly say Beverly Johnson is a nice substitution for Halle Berry, but here you come with a statement that you formed without reading the WHOLE damn post. Good grief....

 

[KenK]

Sorry, sorry. But damn, Free? How's that even an option?

 

[Arach Knight]

Sorry, sorry. But damn, Free? How's that even an option?

Can you freaking read? Can you freaking read?!?!?!

"I do applaud the thought that went into that choice. That is much better than just saying Halle was miscast and then offering no other possibility. If Halle turned the role down, Beverly Johnson could fill in nicely."

Oh wait...reading the whole damn post would require a thought process and effort. Which must be twice as much as you were willing to offer. I came here to contribute to a friendly discussion. Heaven forbid I sarcastically say Free from 106 & Park, only to renege it with my above statement. But obviously sarcasm and reading for context are severely beyond you. Get bent....

 

[Angry Sentinel]

Yeah, Steel was just a poorly made film regardless. Steel was made not for love of the character, but as a 90-minute Shaquille O'Neal commercial. Note all the in-jokes that reference Shaquille, especially one of him trying to toss a balled-up paper into a trash can, missing, and saying, "I never could make the free throws."

The good news is that there have been precious "few" offerings like this one. Otherwise I could see Hollyfake quickly using it as their "reason" why they dont want to make "Black" powered superhero movies.

Now we just have to remove the scars of Catwoman. The deep part of that is that the movie was crap, but Halle actually tried to put the "Grrrr" in that character. Too bad it was such a wasted effort.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Okay, I think you guys are even now, so let's move on.

So Arachknight, do you believe that Halle's casting betrays a lack of respect for the character? Iman, Beverly Johnsnon, Vivica A. Fox, Angela Basset, hell--even eccentric-ass Grace Jones was on the scene doing big things in 2000. Why would they go for someone that is the polar opposite of the character in both appearance and mannerisms?

See, to me this spells certain gloom and doom for future productions like Black Panther, Luke Cage. I fear they will just cast any black actor rather than one that can capture the essence of the character. So instead of casting someone like Djimon for Panther, they'd go for someone "pretty" and mainstream like Boris Kodjoe.

Djimon vs. Boris Kodjoe is to Panther what Beverly Johnson vs. Halle Berry is to Storm...in my opinion.

 

[tamron]

Storm
The problem with a Storm film, in my mind, is that she's been so strongly connected to the X-Men throughout her history. She's had only two solo series, to my knowledge, compared to characters like Gambit and Rogue, who have had several. She's rarely left the mansion for long stretches, and what's ironic is that on her longest stretch (X-Treme X-Men), she took a team with her! She doesn't have the personal villians for a solo film, the way Wolverine has a Sabretooth or a Cyber, the way Gambit has Sinister. Callisto, maybe, or Marrow, but the Morlocks should be in an X-Men movie. And to take her away from the X-Men takes away one of her defining characteristics, that of den mother of the X-Men. In short, I'd rather they just take the time to get Storm right in the X-films, rather than give her a spinoff. In no way is a Storm solo film Marvel's answer to WW, as hunter rider said, its a method to milk the X-brand dry.

A Kerry Washington or a Nona Gaye might be good options if they were casting now, but Storm was cast in '99. Look at Nona Gaye's filmography. '01's "Ali" was her big break, she hadn't done anything of note before that. Kerry Washington became known with last years' 'Ray'. How would they have known of them? It's not like they did a big casting call for Storm. As for Beverly Johnson, she's not a good actress, she's just a model. Iman, Angela Bassett? Love them, especially Angela, but they are too old for Storm. Vivica was a good option, but in the end, I think Singer simply wanted some starpower in that slot, and Halle was then and still is the biggest black actress in the biz.

Blade
We all know Wesley was screwed with Trinity. The less said about that cluster**** of a film, the better.

The Blade show could be good, depending on how its done. If it is about a young Blade, as previously rumored, I say get Lee Thompson Young (The Famous Jett Jackson, Friday Night Lights), maybe let Wesley produce, and it could work. The movie to TV transition has been done successfully before, it can work with Blade, if they put in effort and don't expect the name to carry the show.

Luke Cage
I honestly believe Singleton's Luke Cage should not, and hopefully, will not, see the light of day. If you've noticed, Avi has been quite quiet about it since Singleton made his 'Tyrese or bust' comment. It's not just the possibility of Tyrese and Singleton that worries me though, the fact that the script was written by Ben Ramsey. His two feature films 'The Big Hit' and 'Love and a Bullet' hamfistedly combine action and humor, and a Luke Cage film written in that tone would be absolutely disasterous.

It will be very interesting to see if Cage's current love interest Jessica Jones, a white woman, is put into the film, if Cage is made.

I definitely want Henry Simmons for Cage, and someone like Mario Van Peebles directing.

Bishop
Three words: Keith...Hamilton...Cobb.

Black Panther
Djimon Hounsou as T'Challa, Antoine Fuqua directing, and get Chris Priest to co-write the script with a veteran scriptwriter.

 

[terry78]

I actually would've liked to see those two chicks from Girlfriends, if they had a little more acting experience outside of the show, take on Storm, if only because they look a little more like her.

She has the look, but her acting is a little...meh.

 

[tamron]

Jill Marie Jones definitely has the look of Storm. I can't stand her character on Girlfriends though. She plays a total man-eating, self-serving heifer.

 

[Arach Knight]

Okay, I think you guys are even now, so let's move on.

So Arachknight, do you believe that Halle's casting betrays a lack of respect for the character? Iman, Beverly Johnsnon, Vivica A. Fox, Angela Basset, hell--even eccentric-ass Grace Jones was on the scene doing big things in 2000. Why would they go for someone that is the polar opposite of the character in both appearance and mannerisms?

-I didn't mean to mark the thread with that little argument. I just don't appreciate being called a moron when I was clearly being sarcastic. I already had somebody call me a homophobe in the gay colossus thread for the X-Men Comics forum. And I guess I was still upset over that. I'll try to keep tenable from there on out.

-I don't think Halle was the worst choice. The only thing that bothers me is the wig. Her own hair can be long enough to dye white or at least a very light shade of blonde. The wig she has in the films is just terribly obvious. I think the problem is in the writing of the character. She is fierce while wielding her powers, yet she is timid otherwise. She is portrayed as this comforting type of character. Not that Storm is not comforting. It is just sad to see the character under developed and under utilized. I guess if aesthetic was the main desire, Kerry Washington wouldn't be that bad

Or Gabrielle Union perhaps

But that is just my thoughts on aesthetics. Though I must say, Kerry Washington is a very competent and diverse actress. I just feel that most of Storm's problems were in the character writing and not with Halle Berry, who was obviously very limited in what she could do with the role.

 

[terry78]

And while I know it doesn't matter due to them not being accurate with several characters physical traits in the movie, Storm is supposed to be almost 6 ft. Her height shouldn't overshadow her persona, but she would be an intimidating looking woman in real life, and Halle just looks very tiny, even compared to the younger females in the cast. I think the comics and the shows got her pretty well, as she is this almost Amazonian statuesque African, yet as soon as she gets into an enclosed space and her claustrophobia sets in, that means jack ****.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Storm...would be an intimidating looking woman in real life

I will kicka ya ass brack gurl!!!!!

 

[terry78]

The body of Grace Jones, but the face of Jill Marie Jones. That's what Storm should be.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I just feel that most of Storm's problems were in the character writing and not with Halle Berry, who was obviously very limited in what she could do with the role.

You know what's really sad? Because of Hollywood's carelessness, they've done two things with these X-Men films: They've ruined Storm. And they've also ruined Halle Berry's career.

Think about it: Halle was never on the lips of fanboys and being hated on this level until she was involved with Storm. The writing, the look, the directing--all screamed "We don't know what we're doing with this character", and they botched the job.

As a result, Halle got black-balled, and even when she used her Oscar clout to get better treatment for the character, such attempts were flamed. Then she did Catwoman to give herself an "out" from the franchise and that was a disaster.

If the execs respected the source material, Halle wouldn't have been put in that position. Now our top black actress and top black Marvel heroine have been simitaneously ruined.

 

[terry78]

The only "mutant" that I really honestly relate to is Alex from the Runaways series. My mom actually read a few pages of a book I had and was like, "that's you to a tee, boy."

His character I liked, because that's what most black dudes really are, and not that whole extreme gangsta that the media likes to perpetuate.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Another interesting situation in Hollywood recently was Universal stopping production of Tru Blue,a film by Antoine Fuqua starring Denzel and Benicio Del Torro.the film was apparently "to expensive" given the dark subject matter (A Harlem drug kingpin smuggling drugs into the country in the coffins of vietnam soldiers),they figured they wouldn't make their money back,However right now martin Scorscese is making The Dpearted with Leo Dicaprio and Matt Damon and it is a dark thriller that won't be a blockbuster and yet despite being over budget and over schedule already, the production continues unhampered by the studio

Good point.

It sounds like a double standard to me, but since I'm not involved with either production who knows...but to do Tru Blue film with Oscar talent from Denzel Washington involved would be low-hanging fruit for a studio...at least a studio who's smart and fearless.