Marvel's Black & Minority Characters: Roundtable Discussion

[Lightning Strykez!]

You know, I think this is as good a place as any to bring it up. Over at CBR, theres a column called the Buy Pile, and its written by hannibal Tabu, a black man. I know this because he makes sure you know he's black, for example, during Kwanzaa he included a tidbit about each day in his other column the Comic Book Reel. And he does this on other important days in black history. I really don't care. But I find it curious that every month when BP comes out, he puts it in the must buy pile. I mean, the book couldve gotten better for all I know, but a must buy? I find that hard to believe.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=22

It is far from a "must buy" level right now--issue #25 confirmed that for me. Most inconsistent, choppy mess I've read in the series yet. And just when I thought he was improving.

Marvel were the first and there is good characterization with the characters. But in fairness to DC, they have allowed their black heroes to be more powerful in the likes of Specter, Jon Stewart, etc. Marvel still tend to keep most of their minority heroes at street level.

Not sure I would agree with that. Bishop, Storm, Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau) and Cloak are not what I would call "street level" in terms of power. Especially Storm...the only "hood" thing about her right now is Hudlin.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Really? But it looked so cool in the preview.

It was the suck dude. First of all, the art was terrible. The storywriting was sooooooooo choppy and cheesy. It didn't fit in well with Civil War #7 at all. Like 100 heroes were missing, including Captain America, etc. from 42 when Cloak teleported them. The last issue seemed to let you believe this one would be explosive, but it was lackluster. For example, I thought the confrontation between Reed Richards and Storm would be something interesting.

Dry.

I thought the battle between Storm and Clor would be at least riveting.

Bland.

I honestly don't believe Hudlin knows how to write action sequences...the comic felt like he was trying to avoid having to really roll his sleeves up and get gritty with it. The whole battle between Hercules and Clor was so pathetic that we (as readers) didn't even get a chance to see it. Rather, the comic panels focused on Storm and Susan Richards jumping up and down like school girl cheerleaders full of glee as they watched the battle from afar. "Wow, did you know he was that strong?! WOW! What a finish!"



It read like a cop-out...and like I said, the artwork made it even worse.

Just lame.

 

[hippy fascist]

Knowing hudlin now that BP has joined the F4 he'll probably be kicking the crap out of galactus in some future issue.

The ironic thing is I can see what he's trying to do. BP has over the years often felt somewhat marginalised but he's gone too far in attempting to rectify this. Unbeatable heroes are ****ing boring. Christ, even sentry has weaknesses and that's what saves him from being completely boring (unless bendis is writing).

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Sentry doesn't have weaknesses. Just moments where he doesn't WANT to win. >.>

 

[Zoken]

Does anyone really like the Sentry anyway? I mean, seriously, Bendis pulls him out of his butt and tries to say "Oh he was there all along, someone just made everyone forget". That is the most pathetic origin I've ever heard of. If the Sentry were part of some alternate universe... MAYBE we could talk, but this... it's crap.


on topic commentary. Now that the Majority of the Fantastic Four is Minority, Is Johnny Storm going to feel guilty most of the time?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Does anyone really like the Sentry anyway? I mean, seriously, Bendis pulls him out of his butt and tries to say "Oh he was there all along, someone just made everyone forget". That is the most pathetic origin I've ever heard of. If the Sentry were part of some alternate universe... MAYBE we could talk, but this... it's crap.


on topic commentary. Now that the Majority of the Fantastic Four is Minority, Is Johnny Storm going to feel guilty most of the time?

I happen to really like the Sentry. And Paul Jenkins made him.

 

[Zoken]

I still reject the Sentry on the basis that they just wanted a character who would actually stand a chance against a DC character in an actual fight.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Maybe, but I'm sure there was more to it than that. He's actually an extremely interesting character.

 

[Zoken]

the Jekyll and Hyde-ish element could be found in Hulk. his "My mind was wiped" angst can be found among earlier issues of Wolverine (this is how much i dislike Sentry, I'm recommending Wolverine), what appeal is there to him?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

the Jekyll and Hyde-ish element could be found in Hulk. his "My mind was wiped" angst can be found among earlier issues of Wolverine (this is how much i dislike Sentry, I'm recommending Wolverine), what appeal is there to him?

He's actually a pretty complex character. And he's not really Jekyll Hyde as much as he's Jekyll alongside Hyde. One always offsetting the other, so much power, yet so much restriction. And the given fact he's easily the most unstable of all heros.

 

[Red Mask]

on topic commentary. Now that the Majority of the Fantastic Four is Minority, Is Johnny Storm going to feel guilty most of the time?

Are you asking Johnny would feel awkward around black people? He's lived in New York state for a long time. Are there no black people in his hometown of Glenville, Long Island? Also, Black Panther and Storm are royalty.

 

[Anubis]

the Jekyll and Hyde-ish element could be found in Hulk. his "My mind was wiped" angst can be found among earlier issues of Wolverine (this is how much i dislike Sentry, I'm recommending Wolverine), what appeal is there to him?

You should read the original mini fromt he 90's.

 

[Zoken]

Are you asking Johnny would feel awkward around black people? He's lived in New York state for a long time. Are there no black people in his hometown of Glenville, Long Island? Also, Black Panther and Storm are royalty.

Johnny Storm is a rich white kid. he is now on a team with two blacks and one Jew. while two of them are good friends, I'm just saying he's going to feel a little oddman out. this may just be my racism cropping up (I'm middle class white and I'll admit I have my racist moments) but when we are surrounded by minorities, we can't help but feel we're expected to feel guilty about something.

 

[Varient]

It was the suck dude. First of all, the art was terrible. The storywriting was sooooooooo choppy and cheesy. It didn't fit in well with Civil War #7 at all. Like 100 heroes were missing, including Captain America, etc. from 42 when Cloak teleported them. The last issue seemed to let you believe this one would be explosive, but it was lackluster. For example, I thought the confrontation between Reed Richards and Storm would be something interesting.

Dry.

I thought the battle between Storm and Clor would be at least riveting.

Bland.

I honestly don't believe Hudlin knows how to write action sequences...the comic felt like he was trying to avoid having to really roll his sleeves up and get gritty with it. The whole battle between Hercules and Clor was so pathetic that we (as readers) didn't even get a chance to see it. Rather, the comic panels focused on Storm and Susan Richards jumping up and down like school girl cheerleaders full of glee as they watched the battle from afar. "Wow, did you know he was that strong?! WOW! What a finish!"



It read like a cop-out...and like I said, the artwork made it even worse.

Just lame.

Don't believe I'm doing this:

1. Richards / Storm talk,... Hudlins hands are tied as to what they can talk about - two other writers with their stuff already in stone as to what will be said on the subjects in their own books.

2. storm / clor fight,... I'm satisfied because marvel ignored the folk who don't even reads the x-men regular who believed that storm could survive such a dust up,.. Hammer dodge - as I expected,.. EMP PULSE expected as something similar used against hulk,....

3. clor / herc fight,... See number one,... what can / could hudlin show that wouldn't ruin civil war?

Point:

Seeing as BP was written as on the "outskirts" of civil war,... just like he is with illuminati, xmen, and the avengers, please stop expecting him to show he can be (hudlin) as crass and cheap as some other writers.

I expect f4 will be better than anyone expects because there will be no major crossover to tie his hands,..

V.

 

[Red Mask]

Johnny Storm is a rich white kid. he is now on a team with two blacks and one Jew. while two of them are good friends, I'm just saying he's going to feel a little oddman out.

Well Black Panther and Storm are richer than Johnny, and the Thing is a multi-millionaire, thanks to Reed.

 

[Tropico]

Johnny Storm is a rich white kid. he is now on a team with two blacks and one Jew. while two of them are good friends, I'm just saying he's going to feel a little oddman out. this may just be my racism cropping up (I'm middle class white and I'll admit I have my racist moments) but when we are surrounded by minorities, we can't help but feel we're expected to feel guilty about something.

Johnny Storm is a rich white kid who has had major relationships with ALIEN women. He had a green skinned, ridged lower jaw wife! If they make him feel like you say you would feel it would be completely ******ed; but then again, this is the new Marvel where apparently OOC is ok.

BTW, next time it would sound much better if you said: "...when some of us are surrounded by minorities, some of us can't help but feel we're expected to feel guilty about something. Or be even more honest and use 'I' instead of 'we', I'm sure you'll have a comeback telling me how many other people feel the same as you (friends and such).

 

[Zoken]

Actually, Tropico, Though I believe many others feel like me, you are right. I should have spoken only for myself. it's not like I'm allowed to speak for my race or anything, that would make me a bigot...

 

[32CAGE]

Well, 32, that is a difference overal in Marvel and DC's characters. Most of DC's heroes become highly powered. If memory serves correctly they have very few "street level" heroes. Marvel, currently, has kept things mostly on earth in street level situations, they are trying to balance things out with Anhilation, but most of their heroes are still street level heroes, not just their black ones.

You make a good observation that marvel tends to have more street level heroes across the board. Truth be told i like them better because things like intellect, skill, resourcefulness, tenacity and the none too important integrity is what typically causes them to rise to the challenge. Marvel has done a great job of keeping their heroes vulnerable so that we can see a little bit of hero in us too.

 

[Anubis]

Well Black Panther and Storm are richer than Johnny, and the Thing is a multi-millionaire, thanks to Reed.

Multi-Billionaire actually, and not anymore because the government took all his cash when he left for Paris.

 

[hippy fascist]

Multi-Billionaire actually, and not anymore because the government took all his cash when he left for Paris.

actually I think they just froze his accounts

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, but he wont be accessing it anytime soon. Either that or they'll forget he was ever rich.

 

[hippy fascist]

(insert cheap racist gag about jewish people and money here...)

 

[Donald Thomas]

I don't know what both marvel and Hudlin were thinking with that Doom debacle.Doom a racist? I've always thought of Doom as being above the pettiness of racism considering his intelligence. What was Marvel thinking. A black writer does not equal the sole authority on black characters. There are talented black writers out there that can do BP justice if marvel for some strange reason has to put a black writer on BP.

Aloha,
Sorry to come in late on this but how in the world could you NOT think that Dr. Doom was a racist & sexist? Dr. Doom is an Elitist in the highest sense of the word. He considers EVERYONE to be inferior to him,even his own people.The only reason he doesn't have a Master Race theory is because NO ONE is HIS equal-in his mind.I'm enjoying the Hudlin bashing almost as much as the JMS bashing.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

 

[Zoken]

Aloha,
Sorry to come in late on this but how in the world could you NOT think that Dr. Doom was a racist & sexist? Dr. Doom is an Elitist in the highest sense of the word. He considers EVERYONE to be inferior to him,even his own people.The only reason he doesn't have a Master Race theory is because NO ONE is HIS equal-in his mind.I'm enjoying the Hudlin bashing almost as much as the JMS bashing.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

Never heard about this fiasco... Doom a racist... I just never would have thought about it. I just figured he thought everyone was his lesser, I didn't think he had it in stages. If anything, being Roma, I would think he hated Anglo's more than anything. In any case... I just can't see Doom being a bigot unless he's just making it as an erroneous comment, you know to add insult to injury.

 

[hippy fascist]

3. clor / herc fight,... See number one,... what can / could hudlin show that wouldn't ruin civil war?

Black panther 25 came out after civil war 7

Also Hudlin's content is not the problem as such, it's the way he makes BP invincible and can't tell a coherant story. The dialogue is ok but the overall plot and pacing is completely off.

Other than that, I guess it was bearable t: