Marvel's "Fear" Event - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]345182[/split]

 

[runawayboulder]

It seems that a discussion about these teasers have been spread out between 3 or 4 different threads, so here's one dedicated to them all. I'm starting to think that this is a 616 in canon thing.

Here's the 4 teasers so far and there's probably one more coming tomorrow....

 

[moraldeficiency]

Heroes defeated a bunch of bad guys in Siege.

And honestly, Fear Itself could have an amazing final battle and it would still be the worst even to date. I think Maximum Security was better than this.

Sentry killed himself, they were getting killed by the bad guy. Whether they were there or not sentry would have done the same. Wait I take that back if they didn't stop norman osborn sentry wouldn't have gone off the deep end to begin with.

Go through the events. House of M, Secret Invasion, Siege... Each event ends the same way: Crazy hero/villain has a moment of clarity and fixes things.

If this has the heroes actually defeat the bad guy then it beats any bendis marvel event hands down simply by way of doing something that's different than the endings of every bendis event.

 

[JewishHobbit]

That works for House of M but not the other two. Norman killed Veranke in SI but he was an acting "hero" at the time and tons of heroes took out tons of skrulls. Veranke wasn't the only villain. It was a shared offer. Then in Siege Norman was the lead villain with Sentry the result of Norman's actions. Not to mention the rest of the team. Sentry (with Thor's help) took care of the Void (Sentry IS a hero after all). Spidey/Cap took out Norman. Luke took out Bullseye. Ms. Marvel took out Moonstone. Etc.

I think that complaint (and I've heard it many times before) is just another case of people wanting to find things to complain about regarding Bendis.

 

[moraldeficiency]

That works for House of M but not the other two. Norman killed Veranke in SI but he was an acting "hero" at the time and tons of heroes took out tons of skrulls. Veranke wasn't the only villain. It was a shared offer. Then in Siege Norman was the lead villain with Sentry the result of Norman's actions. Not to mention the rest of the team. Sentry (with Thor's help) took care of the Void (Sentry IS a hero after all). Spidey/Cap took out Norman. Luke took out Bullseye. Ms. Marvel took out Moonstone. Etc.

I think that complaint (and I've heard it many times before) is just another case of people wanting to find things to complain about regarding Bendis.

I said hero/villain in each, actually crazy hero villain in each, which wanda, norman and sentry were. They ended the thing. Other heroes beating some of the bad guys are good, but it's always the main villain that matters in any event. You beat the source of the problem you beat the problem. Veranke was the skrull queen prophesied to take over earth. Without her problem over, with her around prophesy is still on. In Seige Loki was the lead villain manipulating osborn as was clearly shown (were you not paying attention to that?) until sentry went dark and became the real villain. Sentry asked to be killed, if I let you cut my throat by putting my neck to the blade and asking you to do it, you didn't kick my ass and kill me, I allowed you to kill me. It's not the same. Bendis has never had the heroes actually defeat the main villain in any of his events. The heroes beat some cannon fodder and talk about how bad the main villain is and how hopeless things are until someone saves the day out of the blue. That person is always a mix of hero villain that's crazy going through a rare moment of clarity. That's just what's happened.

I'm not finding something to complain about, this has always been my issue with every bendis event (and you've surely. Check anything I've ever read about him. He talks in circles and the heroes never seem to win a fight, at best they get some draw and run away. Call me silly but I like to see heroes actually beat the bad guy at the end of a major battle. I like to see the weaker guy (or girl) come from behind through sheer force of will and possibly sacrifice themselves in order to save the day. Bendis has never given that feeling at the end of any event and actually in most of his stories as well.

I think about events or just stories that I love and with a rare exception or two they always end with the heroes definitively winning and saving the day. Bendis events never have that. The heroes can beat underlings but that's it. Name me your ten favorite events from either company (be honest) and I'll bet at least 70% have the heroes definitively saving the day not by some chance event or last minute thing but from actually earning the win through difficulty, conviction and sacrifice.

 

[James]

I've always found it funny how most of these things end in a big fight. There's Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym and however many other beyond-brilliant super brains and the best they can come up with is "Let's punch it until it stops."

How come the smartest people on Earth can never think of anything smarter than that?

 

[THANOSRULES]

I think the norm is more "superpowerful heroe and/ or villian wraps up the whole mini in a anti-climatic 'way too easy' manner"

You can also lump Secret War in there as well.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I said hero/villain in each, actually crazy hero villain in each, which wanda, norman and sentry were.

Yeah, okay. I can see that with all save the Sentry. The Sentry and the Void are two separate characters within the Rob Reynolds...not just Sentry's crazy self (at least, if I'm remembering that right). And if that's the case then the hero got the win by sacreficing himself so that the evil attached to him can be defeated.

But yeah, Wanda and Norman I can see that.

I'm not finding something to complain about, this has always been my issue with every bendis event (and you've surely. Check anything I've ever read about him. He talks in circles and the heroes never seem to win a fight, at best they get some draw and run away. Call me silly but I like to see heroes actually beat the bad guy at the end of a major battle. I like to see the weaker guy (or girl) come from behind through sheer force of will and possibly sacrifice themselves in order to save the day. Bendis has never given that feeling at the end of any event and actually in most of his stories as well.

I suppose this is just a taste thing. It doesn't bother me at all if the hero wins the day or a villain steps in. I like it when the cliche is broken at times. All I really care about though is that the plot is good and told well. In my opinion, Bendis events often deliver on this more often than not.

I think about events or just stories that I love and with a rare exception or two they always end with the heroes definitively winning and saving the day. Bendis events never have that. The heroes can beat underlings but that's it. Name me your ten favorite events from either company (be honest) and I'll bet at least 70% have the heroes definitively saving the day not by some chance event or last minute thing but from actually earning the win through difficulty, conviction and sacrifice.

I listed these but withdrew them. I think it'd derail the thread too much but I had fun with it and will start a thread to discuss something like it in a moment

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yeah, okay. I can see that with all save the Sentry. The Sentry and the Void are two separate characters within the Rob Reynolds...not just Sentry's crazy self (at least, if I'm remembering that right). And if that's the case then the hero got the win by sacreficing himself so that the evil attached to him can be defeated.

But yeah, Wanda and Norman I can see that.



I suppose this is just a taste thing. It doesn't bother me at all if the hero wins the day or a villain steps in. I like it when the cliche is broken at times. All I really care about though is that the plot is good and told well. In my opinion, Bendis events often deliver on this more often than not.



I listed these but withdrew them. I think it'd derail the thread too much but I had fun with it and will start a thread to discuss something like it in a moment

Bob was pretty crazy. When you have two entities within yourself in addition to yourself that's got you a bit off balance. I mean if norman osborn is your personal hero and the only person you can relate to that's a touch telling. It was still just a copout ending, which if you took that whole thing away and just had the heroes battling it out with the villains and loki could have been very cool.

Bendis having the hero never really win has become a cliche for marvel events not based in space. That's what I was saying. If fear has the heroes actually win through like a battle and such it would be against recent stereotypes.

I don't see them as good plots because most of the time the events would have been resolved without the heroes doing much if anything. They were just spectators, people there to explain events and provide narrations.

I'd be down with that.

 

[Panthro]

That has to be the most emo image of Cyclops in the history of the X-Men and Marvel in general.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But the image actually works on account of the route Cyclops has taken over the years.

 

[Drz]

Hey guys remember when Matt Fraction said Fear Itself is self contained, then we learned that Mighty Thor #6 is a "necessary tie-in to learn Serpent's backstory" you know how much you guys love that? Well fear not! EVEN MORE Fear Itself tie ins!It's

Fear Itself 7.1 by Brubaker, Fear Itself 7.2 by Fraction and another Fear Itself 7.3 just for your reading enjoyment:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08...issues-in-marvel-november-2011-solicitations/

 

[04nbod]

But the image actually works on account of the route Cyclops has taken over the years.

Remember when Cyclops was the great guy who you wanted to succeed? Another in a long line of train wrecks at Marvel I think

Hey guys remember when Matt Fraction said Fear Itself is self contained, then we learned that Mighty Thor #6 is a "necessary tie-in to learn Serpent's backstory" you know how much you guys love that? Well fear not! EVEN MORE Fear Itself tie ins!It's

Fear Itself 7.1 by Brubaker, Fear Itself 7.2 by Fraction and another Fear Itself 7.3 just for your reading enjoyment:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08...issues-in-marvel-november-2011-solicitations/

6? Isn't that the end of the Galactus story? I thought 7 was the tie in. Ferry has been showcasing all that baby Thor, Jord and various other Asgardian art on his blog.

I don't think the last three are necessary. They are aftermath one shots. If you read Iron Man pick up Iron Man, if not then leave it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What the f***, we're doing multiple-decimal books now? I thought that was supposed to be a "Point 1 Initiative," i.e. only a .1 issue to supplement and clarify an ongoing series for new readers, not to supplement a mini-series with enough auxiliary issues to make up half of a whole other mini-series.

 

[Drz]

6? Isn't that the end of the Galactus story? I thought 7 was the tie in. Ferry has been showcasing all that baby Thor, Jord and various other Asgardian art on his blog.

My mistake, sorry. :P

@Corp: Exactly, they should be Captain America, Thor and Iron Man .1 issues, not Fear Itself.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Or just make an extra, 3-issue mini-series. Fear Itself: S*** We Couldn't Get to in the Main Mini-Series.

 

[runawayboulder]

The point 1 issues sell better than any mini has since Marvel started using it. It's a smart strategy.

What I don't like is that Marvel is adding to Fear Itself as it goes along. Fear hasn't done well critically or commercially.

 

[Captain Marvel]

I've always found it funny how most of these things end in a big fight. There's Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym and however many other beyond-brilliant super brains and the best they can come up with is "Let's punch it until it stops."

How come the smartest people on Earth can never think of anything smarter than that?

That was my biggest problem with Secret Invasion. The Skrulls come up with this insidious plot to invade the Earth, and in the end, how're they stopped?

A big brawl in Central Park.

Really, Bendis? Is that all it takes to stop an alien invasion? Everyone gathering in Central Park and then battling it out until the aliens lose? Did you even put any thought into it? And how the hell did the heroes even win, anyway? They had a freaking GALACTUS SUPER-SKRULL! Even if he only had a fraction of the power of the real Galactus, he alone could've decimated the heroes. He certainly shouldn't have gotten slapped around by Stature, of all people.

It was such a mediocre ending. Apparently the Skrulls did all they did because they never really stood a chance of winning, and if they never stood a chance of winning, then where was the danger? If all it takes for the heroes to win is to get into one large scrum and rush the enemy then where's the tension? The answer is there is none. Something like Secret Invasion called for an ending in which the heroes pull out a victory by the skin of their teeth through pluck and a fluke of events, NOT one in which they all get together for amounts to a flash gang brawl in a park where events are preordained because they've all got their serious faces on.

 

[Captain Marvel]

Remember when Cyclops was the great guy who you wanted to succeed? Another in a long line of train wrecks at Marvel I think

I blame Grant Morrison for this. Cyclops has been on a downward slope ever since Morrison got his hands on him, with the exception of Whedon's run. Everything involving Cyclops since has been crap.

 

[kguillou]

Whedon had finally shaped Cyclops into the badass leader he was destined to be...and then after Messiah Complex all the writers took it a step too far. They kept making him darker and more ruthless and it all got out of hand.

As for the Fear Itself solicits, all i'm gonna say is it looks like Bucky really is gone and Brubaker and Fraction are starting to lose alot of goodwill from me. There was so much more they could have done with Buck, but marvel's strategy these days is kill off any character the readers seem to respond well to.

 

[runawayboulder]

I blame Grant Morrison for this. Cyclops has been on a downward slope ever since Morrison got his hands on him, with the exception of Whedon's run. Everything involving Cyclops since has been crap.

It's silly to blame Morrison, he hasn't had anything to do with X-Men for years now. Alan Davis and Terry Kavanagh merged Scott and Cyclops in The Twelve story and Scott Lobdell ran with it in his brief second run (Eve of Destruction. Morrison fleshed it out even further and explored how it affected his relationship with Jean and his teammates. By the time Morrison's run was complete he left Scott in a position to be "redeemed" so to speak. Every writer went crazy with the idea since, especially Brubaker.

I'm sick of hearing Morrison being the reason the X-franchise sucks today. What about Peter Milligan and Chuck Austen? Oh, I forgot, they're the Lindelof and Cuse of X-Men comics.....

 

[Drz]

Jason Aaron's Wolverine has been awesome and i loved Schism, but it reads like a Morrison story! Insane sci-fi stuff, children as villains and it works much better as a smallscale X-men event that doens't make one side look like a total supervillain like what happened with Tony Stark in Civil War.

 

[04nbod]

What the f***, we're doing multiple-decimal books now? I thought that was supposed to be a "Point 1 Initiative," i.e. only a .1 issue to supplement and clarify an ongoing series for new readers, not to supplement a mini-series with enough auxiliary issues to make up half of a whole other mini-series.

This seems recent and is probably a sales incentive to get readers into those three key ongoings. They were calling the one shots 'Shattered Heroes:...' at Comic Con.

 

[storyteller]

Fear Itself seems pretty self contained in retrospect. The Avengers titles have been devoted to fear itself but so far it hasn't touched inside the non avengers books. Spiderman has his Spider Island. DareDevil will only touch fear in the new avengers. Fantastic Force has become the inhumans. Incredible Hulks has ended and Hulk basically rolled through the tie in without screwing with his story.

 

[Panthro]

I've always found it funny how most of these things end in a big fight. There's Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym and however many other beyond-brilliant super brains and the best they can come up with is "Let's punch it until it stops."

How come the smartest people on Earth can never think of anything smarter than that?

I blame lazy writers. It's probably easier to say 'insert big fight here' and let an artist or group of artists go crazy drawing a bunch of heroes hitting villains or heroes hitting other heroes or villains hittting other villains than it is to spend time figuring out a clever victory for the super-smart characters.