Far From Home MCU Spider-Man is very, very inaccurate

[Lilbaz]

I personally dislike everything about MCU Spider-Man. So that's why I didnt write a single post here since Homecoming was released. Because despite movie as movie being solid, it didnt feel as good Spider-Man movie. Dont want to be hater, but I simply have no need to push agenda on people who like it.

You can enjoy it, but it's not my Spider-Man, it's not my Mary Jane it's not my Flash. And something I would enjoy discussing here. It's simply not Spider-Man I used to read or watch. Some will say this borrows Ultimate material, but again I never liked Ultimate Spider-Man that much also. It had few interesting ideas but at the end that's it.

Different strokes for different folks. Ill be back when we get Spider-Man reboot.

Fair enough. Can understand why. Just a shame.

 

[Lilbaz]

Think i like mcu spidey because he is fun again.

Understand the reasons other don't though. Even those wanting an uncle ben reference.

 

[Iceman]

Peter without spider powers could kick this flash’s ass

Yeah, quite a strange “bully” dynamic going on here with the guy who everyone could beat up doing the bullying.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Best Spider-Man imo other movies were good I guess. But I have no desire to ever watch any of them again. I'm all in on this new interpretation. Liked all previous four appearances in MCU

 

[Another_Fool]

I'm very conflicted about MCU Spider-Man. Make no mistake I think the performance is good and Homecoming is a legitimately good movie (though sadly its repeat value diminished to me for some reason). I just don't connect with the interpretation.

 

[Nathan]

Honestly, when it comes to the whole school setting and representation of the characters, I prefer the first Webb Movie over all the other Spidey Movies. I would have legitimately liked to see Chris Zylka's Flash turn into Agent Venom some day.

In Homecoming, now all of his classmates have been turned into nerds, and none of them look anything like their comic counterparts.

 

[2kt09]

Honestly, when it comes to the whole school setting and representation of the characters, I prefer the first Webb Movie over all the other Spidey Movies. I would have legitimately liked to see Chris Zylka's Flash turn into Agent Venom some day.

Even if it was insanely brief yet somehow not a montage, Into Spider-Verse slam dunked the perfect crash course in making that come to life especially given he's an apparent outcast in this gifted school compared to the kids in his neighborhood.

 

[fan4stic]

Pretty much how I feel about the Raimi films.

Which is why I feel this film changes about as much as all the other films have. None of them have been perfect adaptations. I personally prefer homecoming because the biggest changes I feel the MCU Spidey made was to smaller supporting characters. Whereas Raimi messed up main characters. Mary Jane was horribly handled in the Raimi films, the writing for her was horrible. Spider-man didn’t have a personality, and Peter continued to act like the shy high school age Peter throughout all the films.

“MJ” is a weird one for me because of this strange middle ground they’ve hit where she’s not really but kinda Mary Jane, but not, but kinda...it’s annoying. I would prefer they either fully commit to her being a new character, or Mary Jane, not this odd half measure they went with. That said, I vastly prefer her character to the dumpster fire that was the writing for Mary Jane in the Raimi films, so if I’m not getting an accurate Mary Jane, I’m taking MCU’s version every day.

At the end of the day, MCU has nailed the character dynamic between Spidey and Peter, something none of the other films could do, and that’s the most important part to me.

I don't think MJ was handled bad and has more going on as a character than any of the MCU peers of Peter. Spider-Man showed personality in more than 1 case.

That's a cute outfit.
Cheese!
Out of your mind gobby.
Here's your change!
I have a knack for that.

And Peter was actively pursuing MJ after he got his powers and being more confident, not shy. He wasn't exactly brimming confidence, I think (Same as I think he's not wisecracking a lot, but think it's still there), but he wasn't shy. Even in the sequels, he maintains a less shy personality. Telling JJ that he wants more money in SM2, after he gives up being Spider-Man continuing to pursue MJ, in spite of her being with an arguably more popular and handsome man. In 3, I think it's an aggressive plot point that he's not shy and is becoming arguably arrogant.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Even if it was insanely brief yet somehow not a montage, Into Spider-Verse slam dunked the perfect crash course in making that come to life especially given he's an apparent outcast in this gifted school compared to the kids in his neighborhood.

I pointed this out in the ITSV thread and how the creators had Miles mirror Peter in this way.

616 Peter is a brilliant scientific mind. He attends your average high school and is expected to do one thing and be a certain way. But he doesn't. He dreams of being a scientist.

Miles, also brilliant, but goes to a school with other smart kids and is expected to do great things. But really all he wants to do is be an artist.

I loved how they made this parallel about expectations.

 

[fan4stic]

Honestly, when it comes to the whole school setting and representation of the characters, I prefer the first Webb Movie over all the other Spidey Movies. I would have legitimately liked to see Chris Zylka's Flash turn into Agent Venom some day.

In Homecoming, now all of his classmates have been turned into nerds, and none of them look anything like their comic counterparts.

I won't often say something openly positive about TASM movies, but I have a similar mindset as well.

I can see why Raimi's did what it did and don't have a strong issue with it (What I think of as essentially boiling the Spider-Man story down to main aspects). But I think having more characters and them being able to breath and develop can bring interesting dynamics. I don't think MCU's has really given that, in part because I think they're more not doing a lot with the characters.

 

[Marvel united]

Tom Holland himself is perfect. My issue is everything around him, the nigh unrecognizable characters.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Tom Holland himself is perfect. My issue is everything around him, the nigh unrecognizable characters.

I thought you love the Homecoming cast and it's literal perfect depiction of diversity and modern day new York?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't think MJ was handled bad and has more going on as a character than any of the MCU peers of Peter. Spider-Man showed personality in more than 1 case.

That's a cute outfit.
Cheese!
Out of your mind gobby.
Here's your change!
I have a knack for that.

And Peter was actively pursuing MJ after he got his powers and being more confident, not shy. He wasn't exactly brimming confidence, I think (Same as I think he's not wisecracking a lot, but think it's still there), but he wasn't shy. Even in the sequels, he maintains a less shy personality. Telling JJ that he wants more money in SM2, after he gives up being Spider-Man continuing to pursue MJ, in spite of her being with an arguably more popular and handsome man. In 3, I think it's an aggressive plot point that he's not shy and is becoming arguably arrogant.

Mary Jane acted nothing like her comic counterpart in the films. We saw none of the funny, confident party girl who took no sh*t. The girl who hid her pain behind glamor and a care free attitude. The kind of strong friend who, after Peter snaps at her in a moment of grief (post Gwen death) and says some truly awful things to her, she calls him on his BS while also telling him that she’s not going to leave him alone when he’s grieving.

Mary Jane in the Raimi films was nearly one note for all of the films, her writing was paper thin and frankly unlikeable for a good portion of the films (I felt bad for Dunst, she was never given any decent material), and about all she shared with her comic counterpart was the red hair and broken home.

The Raimi films never got close to the complexity or power the comic Mary Jane had, and it’s one of the films biggest failings, especially when the first film claims that it’s as story “about a girl.” The films set up their relationship as the backbone of the series, and they completely botched Mary Jane.

It’s a bummer, because I’m still waiting to see a solid MJ in live action. And the failing of her character started with the first Spider-Man film.

 

[Marvel united]

I thought you love the Homecoming cast and it's literal perfect depiction of diversity and modern day new York?

Characterization and race are not the same

 

[fan4stic]

Mary Jane acted nothing like her comic counterpart in the films. We saw none of the funny, confident party girl who took no sh*t. The girl who hid her pain behind glamor and a care free attitude. The kind of strong friend who, after Peter snaps at her in a moment of grief (post Gwen death) and says some truly awful things to her, she calls him on his BS while also telling him that she’s not going to leave him alone when he’s grieving.

Mary Jane in the Raimi films was nearly one note for all of the films, her writing was paper thin and frankly unlikeable for a good portion of the films (I felt bad for Dunst, she was never given any decent material), and about all she shared with her comic counterpart was the red hair and broken home.

The Raimi films never got close to the complexity or power the comic Mary Jane had, and it’s one of the films biggest failings, especially when the first film claims that it’s as story “about a girl.” The films set up their relationship as the backbone of the series, and they completely botched Mary Jane.

It’s a bummer, because I’m still waiting to see a solid MJ in live action. And the failing of her character started with the first Spider-Man film.

MJ may not have had the comic attitude, but I think she had the characterization in the first movie, someone who lives a life of popularity to hide her pain of her troubled homelife. Whether you like her, doesn't mean that her characterization isn't comic accurate? MJ, even though they're having relationship troubles and she's angry at him, comes to him to try and talk to him about how he's found out about who killed Ben and doesn't want him to do something he'll regret and she knows he'll something like that and tells him that. It's not the comic scene, but Gwen doesn't die in these movies and that scene doesn't have a direct comparison.

I'd say in all Raimi movies, MJ has character arcs. In the first movie, it's about her looking for the wrong kind of love, only to be willing to accept the love of someone who she thinks loves her with seeing her as she is at the end of the movie. While I think the 2nd movie, she doesn't have a strong character arc, in 3 I think she goes through the dealing with her insecurities and issues of her troubled homelife.

 

[fan4stic]

Characterization and race are not the same

I have a similar mindset. I don't want racechanging generally, but if they're going to do that, I don't see why they won't write the character's more like their comic versions.

Just for fun:

No Science School.

Shameik Moore as Flash Thompson

Zendaya as Mary-Jane Watson

Haley Lu Richardson as Betty Brant

Naomi Scott as Liz Allen

 

[Infinity9999x]

MJ may not have had the comic attitude, but I think she had the characterization in the first movie, someone who lives a life of popularity to hide her pain of her troubled homelife. Whether you like her, doesn't mean that her characterization isn't comic accurate? MJ, even though they're having relationship troubles and she's angry at him, comes to him to try and talk to him about how he's found out about who killed Ben and doesn't want him to do something he'll regret and she knows he'll something like that and tells him that. It's not the comic scene, but Gwen doesn't die in these movies and that scene doesn't have a direct comparison.

I'd say in all Raimi movies, MJ has character arcs. In the first movie, it's about her looking for the wrong kind of love, only to be willing to accept the love of someone who she thinks loves her with seeing her as she is at the end of the movie. While I think the 2nd movie, she doesn't have a strong character arc, in 3 I think she goes through the dealing with her insecurities and issues of her troubled homelife.

We saw about one scene of MJ shaking off her parents fighting and hopping in the car. Aside from that, she was pretty much an open book. Right in the beginning of the film we have a whole scene of MJ being very open with Peter about her home troubles, despite us having very little build up to understand why she would open up to him or why they have a connection. That’s not very MJ. Mary Jane was guarded, it took Peter years for her to start opening up about that stuff.

In SM2, she’s openly mopey about Pete, something comic MJ never had the patience for. Not to mention the whole rough arc of her being really unfair to Jameson, despite him seeming like a pretty good dude.

She had none of the personality that made Mary Jane who she was in the comics. She might as well have been called someone completely different, because she had nearly nothing in common with the main personality traits that defined Mary Jane Watson in the comics.

 

[X Knight]

I liked Raimi MJ, but her character wasn't really that comic accurate. Then MJ got totally cut from the Amazing films.

which is why I was hoping the MCU would finally introduce a more comic accurate MJ. but now we have this Zendaya/MJ situation who may or may not be the "real" MJ.

and I think that's totally stupid. cuz they simply could have made Zendaya Mary Jane Watson with a look and personality closer to the comics ( aside from the race change obviously ).

 

[fan4stic]

We saw about one scene of MJ shaking off her parents fighting and hopping in the car. Aside from that, she was pretty much an open book. Right in the beginning of the film we have a whole scene of MJ being very open with Peter about her home troubles, despite us having very little build up to understand why she would open up to him or why they have a connection. That’s not very MJ. Mary Jane was guarded, it took Peter years for her to start opening up about that stuff.

In SM2, she’s openly mopey about Pete, something comic MJ never had the patience for. Not to mention the whole rough arc of her being really unfair to Jameson, despite him seeming like a pretty good dude.

She had none of the personality that made Mary Jane who she was in the comics. She might as well have been called someone completely different, because she had nearly nothing in common with the main personality traits that defined Mary Jane Watson in the comics.

She has 2 scenes like that. That and the one after the Peter talk. I think personality traits aren't who the character is, and those things, like being fun or guarded. Also, Peter heard her parents arguing and she knew it. For all intents and purposes we don't see her talk to Peter about her dad until SM 2. What she more talks to Peter about in that scene is what she wants to do with her life.

I think that's like saying as long as Batman is serious and brooding it's Batman, even if he doesn't have money and his parents weren't killed. I think it's the opposite. I think some traits can be interchangeable, while without the backstory, it's like a different character with the name. I think that defines the character.

By that line of thinking, Tom Holland Spider-Man isn't a good adaption, because we don't see him deal with the weight of Uncle Ben's death or even hear his name.

I liked Raimi MJ, but her character wasn't really that comic accurate. Then MJ got totally cut from the Amazing films.

which is why I was hoping the MCU would finally introduce a more comic accurate MJ. but now we have this Zendaya/MJ situation who may or may not be the "real" MJ.

and I think that's totally stupid. cuz they simply could have made Zendaya Mary Jane Watson with a look and personality closer to the comics ( aside from the race change obviously ).

I wouldn't argue it's a perfect adaption. But I think it's more comic accurate and more strongly written than a lot of HC's characters.

 

[Infinity9999x]

MJ may not have had the comic attitude, but I think she had the characterization in the first movie, someone who lives a life of popularity to hide her pain of her troubled homelife. Whether you like her, doesn't mean that her characterization isn't comic accurate? MJ, even though they're having relationship troubles and she's angry at him, comes to him to try and talk to him about how he's found out about who killed Ben and doesn't want him to do something he'll regret and she knows he'll something like that and tells him that. It's not the comic scene, but Gwen doesn't die in these movies and that scene doesn't have a direct comparison.

I'd say in all Raimi movies, MJ has character arcs. In the first movie, it's about her looking for the wrong kind of love, only to be willing to accept the love of someone who she thinks loves her with seeing her as she is at the end of the movie. While I think the 2nd movie, she doesn't have a strong character arc, in 3 I think she goes through the dealing with her insecurities and issues of her troubled homelife.

We saw about one scene of MJ shaking off her parents fighting and hopping in the car. Aside from that, she was pretty much an open book. Right in the beginning of the film we have a whole scene of MJ being very open with Peter about her home troubles, despite us having very little build up to understand why she would open up to him or why they have a connection. That’s not very MJ. Mary Jane was guarded, it took Peter years for her to start opening up about that stuff.

In SM2, she’s openly mopey about Pete, something comic MJ never had the patience for. Not to mention the whole rough arc of her being really unfair to Jameson, despite him seeming like a pretty good dude.

She had none of the personality that made Mary Jane who she was in the comics. She might as well have been called someone completely different, because she had nearly nothing in common with the main personality traits that defined Mary Jane Watson in the comics.

She has 2 scenes like that. That and the one after the Peter talk. I think personality traits aren't who the character is, and those things, like being fun or guarded. Also, Peter heard her parents arguing and she knew it. For all intents and purposes we don't see her talk to Peter about her dad until SM 2. What she more talks to Peter about in that scene is what she wants to do with her life.

I think that's like saying as long as Batman is serious and brooding it's Batman, even if he doesn't have money and his parents weren't killed. I think it's the opposite. I think some traits can be interchangeable, while without the backstory, it's like a different character with the name. I think that defines the character.

By that line of thinking, Tom Holland Spider-Man isn't a good adaption, because we don't see him deal with the weight of Uncle Ben's death or even hear his name.I wouldn't argue it's a perfect adaption. But I think it's more comic accurate and more strongly written than a lot of HC's characters.

I wasn’t saying she wasn’t comic accurate because she didn’t experience the same circumstances that comic MJ did, I said she wasn’t comic accurate because she never once acted the way comic MJ does.

Mary Jane is someone who hides her issues behind a confident, cocky, take no crap demeanor. She’s also fiercely loyal to her close friends, and is naturally guarded and slow to truly let someone “in.” That’s the core of her character, that’s what’s made comic MJ who she was.

We got none of that. We got a Mary Jane who moped over Harry, who moped over Peter, who inexplicably felt more connection to a masked vigilante than the man she was engaged to, who left a good dude at the altar. We never saw her connect to Peter or why they were attracted to one another, we saw none of her independent nature.

She was MJ in name only. She wasn’t just different, she was a pale imitation of a truly great comic character.

 

[fan4stic]

I wasn’t saying she wasn’t comic accurate because she didn’t experience the same circumstances that comic MJ did, I said she wasn’t comic accurate because she never once acted the way comic MJ does.

Mary Jane is someone who hides her issues behind a confident, cocky, take no crap demeanor. She’s also fiercely loyal to her close friends, and is naturally guarded and slow to truly let someone “in.” That’s the core of her character, that’s what’s made comic MJ who she was.

We got none of that. We got a Mary Jane who moped over Harry, who moped over Peter, who inexplicably felt more connection to a masked vigilante than the man she was engaged to, who left a good dude at the altar. We never saw her connect to Peter or why they were attracted to one another, we saw none of her independent nature.

She was MJ in name only. She wasn’t just different, she was a pale imitation of a truly great comic character

She did act those ways at times in the movies. The character is there in acting that way, though I think not in the way some might want. Though, I think that how the character acts is interchangable and the backstory is what makes the character who they are and the way they act could be placed onto any character. Superman being a brooding loner doesn't make him Batman.

More than once in those movies, we saw have a take no **** demeanor, be guarded and hide her issues behind a confident demeanor. Does she owe him marriage just because he's a good dude to you? And she shows herself to be loyal to her closest people, like the Peter situation where she comes to him when he finds out about who killed Ben, in spite of her issues in their situation.

I think that by that mindset, Tom Holland's Spider-Man is as well, based on the movie not developing Peter's emotions in regards to Ben's death strongly.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

I don't need it to be accurate I need it to be good.

 

[ragingdemon155]

Tom Holland himself is perfect. My issue is everything around him, the nigh unrecognizable characters.

This is how I feel to an extent. The characterization is off at times. It’s not a issue with Tom Holland. The dude is amazing with what he’s given. You can tell that he’s loving this role and it shows in his performances. Spider-Man just feels off at times. Competent at times and useless in other moments. It makes Homecoming hard to get through because he was so damn useless throughout the movie.

Tom Holland is the man though . Enough good things can’t be said about the job he does

 

[Schlosser85]

This is how I feel to an extent. The characterization is off at times. It’s not a issue with Tom Holland. The dude is amazing with what he’s given. You can tell that he’s loving this role and it shows in his performances. Spider-Man just feels off at times. Competent at times and useless in other moments. It makes Homecoming hard to get through because he was so damn useless throughout the movie.

Tom Holland is the man though . Enough good things can’t be said about the job he does

This. It feels like they made him more inept in Homecoming than he was in Civil War just for comic relief. He doesnt even take down Vulture. Vulture kicks his ass and then inadvertently defeats himself.

 

[Infinity9999x]

She did act those ways at times in the movies. The character is there in acting that way, though I think not in the way some might want. Though, I think that how the character acts is interchangable and the backstory is what makes the character who they are and the way they act could be placed onto any character. Superman being a brooding loner doesn't make him Batman.

More than once in those movies, we saw have a take no **** demeanor, be guarded and hide her issues behind a confident demeanor. Does she owe him marriage just because he's a good dude to you? And she shows herself to be loyal to her closest people, like the Peter situation where she comes to him when he finds out about who killed Ben, in spite of her issues in their situation.

I think that by that mindset, Tom Holland's Spider-Man is as well, based on the movie not developing Peter's emotions in regards to Ben's death strongly.

Man, if you think we saw MJ displaying a confident, take to crap attitude, someone who was confident in herself and called Pete on his BS...then I don’t know what to tell you. That simply wasn’t displayed in the films. If you think it was...then I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what those terms mean.

The character displayed in the Raimi films shared none of the main character traits that made MJ such a good character. No way around it.