MCU X-Men

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Shikamaru brought up a good point. In 2021, Peter Parker will be 17-18 and out of High-School. So the X-Men should be a few years older than that imo. So they should be College kids. Anybody else think this is a good compromise between Giant Size and O5 (20-22 age range)
 
I think having all the X-Men under 22 IS Giant Size X-Men. This idea that Giant Size X-Men #1 were in their late 20s or early 30s is nonsense.

EDIT: I was gonna post a wall of text about the ages of the X-Men, but I'll just post a picture from the end of the Dark Phoenix storyline. You guys are smart, you get it.

KUA1gwol.jpg
 
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I think Jean's tombstone after the Dark Phoenix saga implied she was 24. That was in the late 1970s. I get there's no point debating an exact age with comics but it does suggest the intent in Giant Size was for them to be any age that counts as "college-aged".

But yes, if they don't want to wait another decade to get to other X-Men, maybe a mix of the Danger Room and a failed mission, where they either disappear or retire ala Jessica Jones, is probably the way to do it.

EDIT: Yep, I was right about the tombstone.
 
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Jeff Sneider said on Meet the Movie Press today that he is hearing (not confirmed) that New Mutants will get a theatrical release BUT Disney may want the film and its sequels for their big streaming service launch next year.
 
I think Jean's tombstone after the Dark Phoenix saga implied she was 24. That was in the late 1970s. I get there's no point debating an exact age with comics but it does suggest the intent in Giant Size was for them to be any age that counts as "college-aged".

But yes, if they don't want to wait another decade to get to other X-Men, maybe a mix of the Danger Room and a failed mission, where they either disappear or retire ala Jessica Jones, is probably the way to do it.

EDIT: Yep, I was right about the tombstone.
So Giant Size aren't 30 year olds? A lot of the fancasting for them has been super off then. Wow, just started reading it two weeks ago. (I read Uncanny/x-Men, Astonishing and 90s Claremont run)
 
MCU doesn't need that for enjoyment. They did Black Widow, Winter Soldier, Falcon, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver, Vision, Valkyrie and more origins without slowing things to a crawl. If those characters had been off screen previous members of the Avengers, would the movies have been more enjoyable?

If Marvel followed your logic they would've given us an entire origin movie about Black Widow and Hawkeye joining SHIELD.

Widow already being a SHIELD agent in Iron Man 2 is a perfect example of what I am talking about. We got a character with a pre-set history and backstory in the world. That seemed to work out fine.
 
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Spider-man in Homecoming was new to the gig, but it skipped the bite and Uncle Ben.

I'd like the MCU X-men to be similar. Skip the events that were foundational to Xavier and Magneto's perspectives, but don't skip over giving the X-men experience.

I'd, start with a smallish new team (not the 05, though), and bring in some big characters to the team through the events of the movie.

Start with: Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, and Rictor, with Forge as support and tech.
Bring in: Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, and Nightcrawler
 
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So Giant Size aren't 30 year olds? A lot of the fancasting for them has been super off then. Wow, just started reading it two weeks ago. (I read Uncanny/x-Men, Astonishing and 90s Claremont run)

I mean it makes sense. The Marvel timeline since the FF is supposed to be like 13-15 years. If they started out as teens they couldn't have been 30 by Giant Size.

Though to be fair, it does come off like it significantly aged them. I always questioned at what point in the canon the forty-year old looking Wolverine starts fighting Scott over Jean.
 
Didn't the original comic run do a time jump and suddenly they went from being teenagers to being 24 year olds?
 
On the contrary, I think very highly of them. The audience is too smart to think something that isn't worth the time of the filmmakers is worth their time. They're smart enough to understand when they're being spoonfed information and when they're being led step by step on a journey. They know the difference, and feel it, instantly, even if they can't describe it.

Give me examples of these 'big deals' because the only thing I can think about is loss storylines, where the loss is the big deal, and the loss is what's being explored, not so much looking up to someone. Or sometimes a kid will have a hero to look up to, and the lesson of the story is that the hero isn't really as great as they imagined, or "the real hero is you." Everytime something is set up as a big deal in a couple of minutes, it ends up losing/sucking/dying, because going from being a big deal to not a big deal is just as cool a journey as going from being not a big deal to being a big deal, like most (all?) superhero movies.

I'm sorry, this is just as ridiculous as the argument that members of a team have to be introduced in separate films before the team films. (See early complaints about Suicide Squad and Justice League) or that the source isn't "known" enough. These are "problems" that ONLY get brought about CBM's, as if they're somehow different from any other movie. For example, in Oceans 11, we didn't need to see these thieves BECOME the best to accept that they ARE the best.

We don't have enough time to tell all the stories in the X-Men saga. Marvel isn't going to want to and SHOULDN'T want to retread stories we've already seen when they don't have to.
 
So Giant Size aren't 30 year olds? A lot of the fancasting for them has been super off then. Wow, just started reading it two weeks ago. (I read Uncanny/x-Men, Astonishing and 90s Claremont run)

It's Singer's fault. He cast people much older for his own reasons, and that's what a lot of fans have grown up with.

If Marvel followed your logic they would've given us an entire origin movie about Black Widow and Hawkeye joining SHIELD.

Widow already being a SHIELD agent in Iron Man 2 is a perfect example of what I am talking about. We got a character with a pre-set history and backstory in the world. That seemed to work out fine.

...sure, I got time.

They did follow my logic. When they backstoried in the characters, they kept them as unimportant supporting characters, which I've repeatedly told you was an option. When they wanted to make them important, they had one successful storyline, Black Widow, where they gave her a full herodom journey, the same as they would for a new character, in Winter Soldier, so that now she can have character development people care about. They also had a less successful storyline with Hawkeye, where they simply expected the audience to care about him and his family like characters that had been on a journey with them, and that storyline was widely criticized, and did not draw a greater interest to the character.

There's nothing wrong with having Beast/Angel/Iceman as unimportant supporting characters, and skipping on having the audience invested in their story. Like you said, you are comfortable with Beast being an unimportant supporting character with no meaningful life outside of how he contributes to the main characters, like in X3. Many would be satisfied with this. I've shared this with you before. Do you recall that logic?

Spider-man in Homecoming was new to the gig, but it skipped the bite and Uncle Ben.

I'd like the MCU X-men to be similar. Skip the events that were foundational to Xavier and Magneto's perspectives, but don't skip over giving the X-men experience.

I'd, start with a smallish new team (not the 05, though), and bring in some big characters to the team through the events of the movie.

Start with: Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, and Rictor, with Forge as support and tech.
Bring in: Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, and Nightcrawler

I like this angle, but that's a LOT of characters, and I personally wouldn't be interested in seeing Rictor as a founding X-Man. Maybe save Rictor and Kurt? OR keep them as supporting characters. Plus your squad has no muscle! :)

Didn't the original comic run do a time jump and suddenly they went from being teenagers to being 24 year olds?

Nope. They graduated in issue 7, suggesting they were adult teenagers (18ish) at the beginning of their career, and advanced through time normally with the rest of the Marvel Universe after their reprints. By comic book sliding time, they didn't become 10 year veterans until Morrison's run.

I'm sorry, this is just as ridiculous as the argument that members of a team have to be introduced in separate films before the team films. (See early complaints about Suicide Squad and Justice League) or that the source isn't "known" enough. These are "problems" that ONLY get brought about CBM's, as if they're somehow different from any other movie. For example, in Oceans 11, we didn't need to see these thieves BECOME the best to accept that they ARE the best.

We don't have enough time to tell all the stories in the X-Men saga. Marvel isn't going to want to and SHOULDN'T want to retread stories we've already seen when they don't have to.

Okay, so there's two things here. First, thieves are real, every audience member that owns a lock is already invested in the idea, and it is a deeply ingrained action movie trope. The heist genre is a lot older than the superhero genre, and so the audience isn't surprised that the thieves in O11 don't seem magical, or that people aren't in awe of their presence, because they just aren't a big deal, as is reflected in the reaction of their opposition. Whether they are the best doesn't come up, because it's not important. They become a big deal to everyone, including each other, through the film and Danny learns that his quest for vengeance, which seemed like a big deal at first, is not in the end. It's a great journey with great contrast. In just 10 short years, Marvel has managed something similar in SMHC, where Peter having a costume and powers isn't a big deal. He still gets no respect in or out of costume, even from the likes of Happy. He still is ineffective and weak. Being a superhero, for Peter, isn't a big deal. He wants something that IS a big deal: being an Avenger. He becomes a big deal, and learns that being an Avenger is not a big a deal as he felt. It's just good storytelling, and even if you disagree, it's what the MCU does so we can count on them to do it more. I mean... why do you think people care about movie characters at all? What happens to them, whether they do good or evil?

Second, that's a really good point, we are not going to be able to do all the major X-Men storylines, nor are we going to be able to do justice to all the characters. So how do we decide which ones? How do we think Feige will decide? You bring up a good point about storylines that haven't been done already should take priority. I think there's something to that, and I think that's part of why the O5 will not exist, or not exist in the way that we'd like, because the storylines that depend on their character development: Dark Phoenix, Cable, angsty Blue Beast and Archangel, these storylines have already been done recently, and so maybe they just shouldn't happen in the MCU, or shouldn't be something the audience is intended to care about or be moved by. That's a little sad as an X-Man fan who wants a narratively faithful adaptation, but it's not necessarily a bad idea, at all, and seems to fit with how the MCU is handling Spider-Man. If I'm eagerly awaiting Tom Holland to face of against Norman Osborn over the Death of Gwen Stacy in the MCU, I'm probably going to be SOL.

EDIT: In fact, let's go with that. For everyone:
Assuming that X-Men stories and villains prominently used by Fox are off limits, what X-Men storylines and villains would you like to see most in the MCU?

For me, I want to see Sinister and the Savage Land and Sauron.
I'd like to see Mojo, and Spyral and Mojoworld
I'd like to see Bastion, Omega Sentinel and the Prime Sentinels
 
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It's Singer's fault. He cast people much older for his own reasons, and that's what a lot of fans have grown up with.



...sure, I got time.

They did follow my logic. When they backstoried in the characters, they kept them as unimportant supporting characters, which I've repeatedly told you was an option. When they wanted to make them important, they had one successful storyline, Black Widow, where they gave her a full herodom journey, the same as they would for a new character, in Winter Soldier, so that now she can have character development people care about. They also had a less successful storyline with Hawkeye, where they simply expected the audience to care about him and his family like characters that had been on a journey with them, and that storyline was widely criticized, and did not draw a greater interest to the character.

There's nothing wrong with having Beast/Angel/Iceman as unimportant supporting characters, and skipping on having the audience invested in their story. Like you said, you are comfortable with Beast being an unimportant supporting character with no meaningful life outside of how he contributes to the main characters, like in X3. Many would be satisfied with this. I've shared this with you before. Do you recall that logic?



I like this angle, but that's a LOT of characters, and I personally wouldn't be interested in seeing Rictor as a founding X-Man. Maybe save Rictor and Kurt? OR keep them as supporting characters. Plus your squad has no muscle! :)



Nope. They graduated in issue 7, suggesting they were adult teenagers (18ish) at the beginning of their career, and advanced through time normally with the rest of the Marvel Universe after their reprints. By comic book sliding time, they didn't become 10 year veterans until Morrison's run.



Okay, so there's two things here. First, thieves are real, every audience member that owns a lock is already invested in the idea, and it is a deeply ingrained action movie trope. The heist genre is a lot older than the superhero genre, and so the audience isn't surprised that the thieves in O11 don't seem magical, or that people aren't in awe of their presence, because they just aren't a big deal, as is reflected in the reaction of their opposition. Whether they are the best doesn't come up, because it's not important. They become a big deal to everyone, including each other, through the film and Danny learns that his quest for vengeance, which seemed like a big deal at first, is not in the end. It's a great journey with great contrast. In just 10 short years, Marvel has managed something similar in SMHC, where Peter having a costume and powers isn't a big deal. He still gets no respect in or out of costume, even from the likes of Happy. He still is ineffective and weak. Being a superhero, for Peter, isn't a big deal. He wants something that IS a big deal: being an Avenger. He becomes a big deal, and learns that being an Avenger is not a big a deal as he felt. It's just good storytelling, and even if you disagree, it's what the MCU does so we can count on them to do it more. I mean... why do you think people care about movie characters at all? What happens to them, whether they do good or evil?

Second, that's a really good point, we are not going to be able to do all the major X-Men storylines, nor are we going to be able to do justice to all the characters. So how do we decide which ones? How do we think Feige will decide? You bring up a good point about storylines that haven't been done already should take priority. I think there's something to that, and I think that's part of why the O5 will not exist, or not exist in the way that we'd like, because the storylines that depend on their character development: Dark Phoenix, Cable, angsty Blue Beast and Archangel, these storylines have already been done recently, and so maybe they just shouldn't happen in the MCU, or shouldn't be something the audience is intended to care about or be moved by. That's a little sad as an X-Man fan who wants a narratively faithful adaptation, but it's not necessarily a bad idea, at all, and seems to fit with how the MCU is handling Spider-Man. If I'm eagerly awaiting Tom Holland to face of against Norman Osborn over the Death of Gwen Stacy in the MCU, I'm probably going to be SOL.
:up: :applaud
 
...sure, I got time.

They did follow my logic. When they backstoried in the characters, they kept them as unimportant supporting characters, which I've repeatedly told you was an option. When they wanted to make them important, they had one successful storyline, Black Widow, where they gave her a full herodom journey, the same as they would for a new character, in Winter Soldier, so that now she can have character development people care about. They also had a less successful storyline with Hawkeye, where they simply expected the audience to care about him and his family like characters that had been on a journey with them, and that storyline was widely criticized, and did not draw a greater interest to the character.

There's nothing wrong with having Beast/Angel/Iceman as unimportant supporting characters, and skipping on having the audience invested in their story. Like you said, you are comfortable with Beast being an unimportant supporting character with no meaningful life outside of how he contributes to the main characters, like in X3. Many would be satisfied with this. I've shared this with you before. Do you recall that logic?

No, they didn't follow your logic. If they did, they would've given us origin movies for both Black Widow and Hawkeye just to "make them important". Because how could they probably ever become important if we don't see their origin stories right? Its not like they could develop them in future movies or anything without an origin story of some sort first... right?

But the success of Black Widow as a supporting character proves you wrong. Because she hasn't even had a movie of her own yet and she is one of the most popular characters in the MCU based on her appearances in movies where she wasn't a main character (and now they are finally developing a solo movie for her, based on a demand for it).

In trying to use her as an example, you are only undermining your argument, not strengthening it.
 
Don't need him. I'd rather have a new wolverine. Hugh knows he's done. Not hating on hugh but i dont need him back in the role again already had over 15 years worth of his version.
 
I like this angle, but that's a LOT of characters, and I personally wouldn't be interested in seeing Rictor as a founding X-Man. Maybe save Rictor and Kurt? OR keep them as supporting characters. Plus your squad has no muscle! :)
This is true. I'd want the original team to be a lot smaller scale. I'd want Jean and Scott to get the most focus from the original team, so I'd fill out the rest of the original team with characters that don't often get much attention. Rictor or Marrow would be neat. They should be doing smaller scale missions like helping refugee mutants and intervening in violence between mutants and humans. Eventually a bigger crisis comes up that the team can't handle so they have to recruit a bigger team (I would make the newcomers the big huge A-list X-characters). Then the movie becomes about adjusting to new character dynamics.
For me, I want to see Sinister and the Savage Land and Sauron.
I'd like to see Mojo, and Spyral and Mojoworld
I'd like to see Bastion, Omega Sentinel and the Prime Sentinels
I never really liked Sauron. He never felt like an X-men character/villain to me.

Bastion or Sinister could be cool, but I'd go with the Shadow King.
 
EDIT: In fact, let's go with that. For everyone:
Assuming that X-Men stories and villains prominently used by Fox are off limits, what X-Men storylines and villains would you like to see most in the MCU?

For me, I want to see Sinister and the Savage Land and Sauron.
I'd like to see Mojo, and Spyral and Mojoworld
I'd like to see Bastion, Omega Sentinel and the Prime Sentinels
I'd also love to see Savage Land and the REAL Juggernaut, running around with Black Tom, of course. And instead of the Dark Phoenix Saga, which has now become the overarching plot of TWO franchises, I would love Deadly Genesis and Vulcan, potentially leading into a War of Kings crossover event movie.
 
Savage Land would be amazing but I’d wait a bit before going there.
 
The idea of a Savage Land movie makes me literally drool. :hmr: Dinosaurs in the MCU, what kind of sad soul wouldn't want to see that?

I'd also really like to see the Brood at some point.

I never really liked Sauron. He never felt like an X-men character/villain to me.
Come on now, Sauron is awesome!

DMywR5aXcAAzPIb.jpg


But yeah, he's definitely not an easy character to adapt to live action.
 
Time for Jackman to move on imo. He's had his time as Logan. Marvel not is going to want him considering he's heavily tied to the Fox movies and he's 50 years old.

And The Hollywood Reporter already confirmed Marvel Studios is very excited to recast the part. Jackman is done.
 
Don't need him. I'd rather have a new wolverine. Hugh knows he's done. Not hating on hugh but i dont need him back in the role again already had over 15 years worth of his version.

He did well with the role - but it needs a fresh face and new blood. Not to mention the casting search will be a big time marketing publicity for Marvel.
 
I'd go with a new actor for the MCU Wolverine but there's no reason why Jackman couldn't show up as a time-displaced Old Man Logan, it's happened in the comics.
 
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