MCU X-Men

[Leo Zelinsky]

That is the party line, correct? So... How does this not apply to the Uncanny X-Men?

So why go out the way to not include Storm?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Who says the original Mutants have to all be white? Booby was made to be a gay character in the comics and I don't have issue with that. I wouldn't have an issue with race bending any of the characters. And... look at that Marvel has already race bent characters. NORSE GOD characters at that.


Look it's obvious people have their druthers. I would prefer they start AT THE START and build from there with Logan and Ororo used in other films and then transferred over to the X-men films proper. All this has a great virtue of being different to what Fox already gave us.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So why go out the way to not include Storm?

Storm gets introduced as a member of the cast for the BP sequel.

Then in the second or third X film she gets recruited by Xavier along with Kurt, Piotr, Logan and Kitty. Beast moves on to the Avengers natch.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Who says the original Mutants have to all be white? Booby was made to be a gay character in the comics and I don't have issue with that. I wouldn't have an issue with race bending any of the characters.

I'm sorry but that's the worst idea ever.

 

[Lord]

I'm sorry but that's the worst idea ever.

Huh? Why? Heimdall still bothers you?

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I'm sorry but that's the worst idea ever.

Why? Is there anything inherently 'white' about Bobby?
With Angle, yeah I get it. He's a WASP, almost as much as Batman. But Bobby?

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Huh? Why? Heimdall still bothers you?

Honestly don't care about Thor franchise

Why? Is there anything inherently 'white' about Bobby?

Because X-MEN doesn't need race bending or gender bending. It's the only comic book with Characters from all 7 continents. There's no reason to do it when Marvel proven they can make anything popular why go out the way to raceswap when every race is already available to use?

 

[Double B]

I must say despite the fact that I was one of the few willing them to be bold and give us Zendaya as MJ Watson, I think race changing the X-Men is so unnecessary. It's one of the most diverse casts in comic book entirety. Give us that.

And give me Storm in that starting line up. When I see BP's legion of wonderful black actresses assembled, it's so disappointing to think that Storm has STILL not been paid her dues.

 

[TheVileOne]

If you look at Marvel Studios' history, they will only gender or race bend supporting characters and not the major title heroes.

Case in point, Heimdall, Ghost, Jeryn Hogarth, Ben Urich, Valkyrie, The Ancient One, etc.

Not saying that won't change, but that's how they've done it so far. They will change the race or gender of existing characters but only the ones in a supporting capacity.

I would say use the 1970s Claremont/Cockrum X-Men. Is that not the run and team that turned X-Men into comic book icons and made them a huge book? I recall the original lineup was never all that popular and bordering on cancellation until Claremont revamped it.

Here's the Giant Size X-Men team:

Storm - Africa
Wolverine - Canada
Colossus - Russia
Nightcrawler - Germany
Thunderbird - Native American
Sunfire - Japan
Banshee - Scotland

There's your team and diversity. Maybe sub out Banshee. Put in Kitty Pryde. Keep Jean Grey and Cyclops.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'd support racebending certain characters and raising the profiles of the X-men's diverse characters at the same time.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Only character's I personally wouldn't care if they were raceswap are the human support characters. Like Moira McTaggart & Trish Tilby etc etc

 

[TheVileOne]

You kind of already have a diverse group of characters in and around the X-Men. You don't really need to race or gender swap the characters at all. Chances are if there is some minority group you want represented, they already exist in the comics.

Cue all the articles about why a Black/Hispanic/Asian American actor should be cast in the role of the white Canadian, Wolverine. Or why they should get rid of Wolverine and just use X-23 in all future movies instead

 

[DrCosmic]

Eh... Think of the development that happened in the comics with those characters. You make damned sure that in "writing better" those aspects shine through as harbingers of what's to come. Hank has his self loathing and search for a "cure". Bobby can be a young man dealing with both mutancy and his blossoming recognition of his own sexuality. Scott, as opposed to the Singer films, can actually get some development as a person burdened with the mantle of leadership. And on and on. And people are acting like changes in the roster aren't part and parcel of starting with the original five. Other characters can be worked into the second and third installments. No one is posting an all original five trilogy or the like.

Honestly, a lot of this antipathy for the original X-Men getting spotlight in the MCU feels like it's based on nostalgia for the 90's toon more than anything.

Honestly, there's no antipathy, but a deep appreciation for the strengths and weaknesses of O5. Knowing from experience how being harbingers of what's to come and having discernible personalities and angst wasn't enough in the original comics or any revisitation ala the First Class comics, or the ANAD return of the O5 and how such nostalgia driven prequel-dom is even weaker in film and adaptation. This is simply because the heart of the X-Men's thematic appeal is their diversity and being outsiders, and the O5 is very homogenous and are not convincing outsiders, so they do not carry in them the core appeal of the overall franchise. They become iconic interesting thematic X-Men after they mutate AGAIN into more visually, morally, and skin color diverse forms. To make a good O5 movie, you have to give them their later development from the beginning. A different color Beast. An out of control Jean. A dead Warren. Not just point to a day, one day, when they'll live up to the name.

If they can turn characters that were pop culture nobodies like THE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY with a talking raccoon and a tree alien who only says one word into stars of blockbuster movies then they can do anything.

That is the party line, correct? So... How does this not apply to the Uncanny X-Men?

It does apply completely. The Guardians of the Galaxy was turned into a hit by ditching their O5 and just picking the best members for their story, and giving the O5 a nod at the end of the sequel. We're all agreeing that the GotG approach is what we DON'T want for the X-Men. Another solution needs to be found.

Because X-MEN doesn't need race bending or gender bending. It's the only comic book with Characters from all 7 continents. There's no reason to do it when Marvel proven they can make anything popular why go out the way to raceswap when every race is already available to use?

Because you then have things like Darwin being one of Xavier's first class because that's the only way you can use a Hispanic character that is significant from the comics. Plus a good story only has so many roles in it, so you have to lose a core X-Man to include the diversity that lies outside the overwhelmingly White core X-Men. Instead of choosing between having a Hispanic character and having Beast... you could have your cake and eat it by making Beast Hispanic.

I agree it would be dumb to change a character whose racial or cultural diversity that is already represented in the top 25 X-Men. Changing a character to a Black woman, or Asian woman or Native American male instead of using Storm or Psylocke or Thunderbird is a huge fail... but making Iceman African American is a much better idea than shoehorning a time travel story into your movie or turning Synch or Random into Scott Summers' peers.

Spider-Man: Homecoming made the same smart move by turning Liz Allen Black (takes nothing from existing story) instead of trying to turn Gloria Grant into Liz Allen (totally eviscerates existing story).

 

[Chance Jackson]

I must say despite the fact that I was one of the few willing them to be bold and give us Zendaya as MJ Watson, I think race changing the X-Men is so unnecessary. It's one of the most diverse casts in comic book entirety. Give us that.

And give me Storm in that starting line up. When I see BP's legion of wonderful black actresses assembled, it's so disappointing to think that Storm has STILL not been paid her dues.

Ditto in all regards I support Heimdall, Perry, MJ etc but it isn't needed with the X-Men

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Because you then have things like Darwin being one of Xavier's first class because that's the only way you can use a Hispanic character that is significant from the comics. Plus a good story only has so many roles in it, so you have to lose a core X-Man to include the diversity that lies outside the overwhelmingly White core X-Men. Instead of choosing between having a Hispanic character and having Beast... you could have your cake and eat it by making Beast Hispanic.

1. Darwin is a awesome X-MAN. Black & Latino and he can't die I love that Character! Darwin is basically one of the first X-MEN anyways so I'd be more than fine with a CGI Darwin in MCU X-MEN

2. Hispanic Beast!? Just why it makes no sense

 

[TheVileOne]

Also what's wrong with the 90s Animated Series lineup?

 

[Tony Stark]

Do they retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to be Mags' children now?

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Do they retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to be Mags' children now?

It's pretty much a no brainer

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Also what's wrong with the 90s Animated Series lineup?

Too many characters for movie 1 imo. That's like 8 or 9 ppl

 

[TheVileOne]

Do they retcon Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to be Mags' children now?

No. They were powerless kids who got their powers through HYDRA experiments using the Mind Infinity Stone. If they were mutants, surely their powers would've manifested in the situation where they almost died and were waiting for a missile to blow up in the days they were buried under rubble.

 

[DrCosmic]

1. Darwin is a awesome X-MAN. Black & Latino and he can't die I love that Character! Darwin is basically one of the first X-MEN anyways so I'd be more than fine with a CGI Darwin in MCU X-MEN

2. Hispanic Beast!? Just why it makes no sense

Since Darwin is awesome, you're okay with the lineup of the first X-Men movie being Scott, Jean, Darwin, Angel and Iceman? If not, then you understand why the character being awesome isn't really the issue at all.

Also what's wrong with the 90s Animated Series lineup?

Some of those characters would have to miss development. Five characters is kind of the sweet spot, plus one mentor, plus one villain. MCU has shown it can do this well with Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[TheVileOne]

Too many characters for movie 1 imo. That's like 8 or 9 ppl

Well they are called X-Men for a reason.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Since Darwin is awesome, you're okay with the lineup of the first X-Men movie being Scott, Jean, Darwin, Angel and Iceman? If not, then you understand why the character being awesome isn't really the issue at all.

I honestly don't want the 05 in movie 1 anyways. So I don't wanna see Angel or Iceman regardless. That was the point of the discussion. Definitely don't want those two in over Storm



I'll debate you more later I'm going to see star wars

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Well they are called X-Men for a reason.

Right but it'll be 6 or fewer like Avenger's 1 or GotG 1

 

[DrCosmic]

I honestly don't want the 05 in movie 1 anyways. So I don't wanna see Angel or Iceman regardless. That was the point of the discussion. Definitely don't want those two in over Storm

Hispanic Beast does not mean the inclusion of Angel or Iceman, so if that is your point, you'd agree with me 100%. I'm responding to your assertion about the diversity in X-Men's deep cuts, and pointing out how those deep cuts are not good choices for major characters in the films.

Here's a potential lineup for an X-Men movie:
Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Phoenix, Beast, Psylocke and Shadowcat as the kid sidekick.

Let's say that 7 heroes is all the story can handle, and let's say you also want to incorporate characters that experience modern racial and religious prejudice: African American males, Muslims, Hispanic immigrants, people who are considered enemies in real life by parts of the Western population. Which of these X-Men do you take out and who do you put in as new core X-Men to represent Muslims? African American males? Hispanic immigrants?

Or do you make these characters into minor characters, unimportant to the story and just there to tick a box so that you can then spend most of your time ignoring those characters? Can you do that and still tell a credible story about valuing people who are not like us?