Metal Gear Solid Question (This is bugging me to death)

[Boom]

Liquid Snake is the superior clone. He has the dominant genes.
Solid Snake is the inferior clone. He has the recessive genes.

Alright, that's simple enough.

Now, it is official that at one point, both Solid and Liquid Snake had blonde hair. This is evident in the MGS Briefing files in the PS1 game, where Solid Snake is clearly blonde. He then dyed and cut his hair before Shadow Moses so as not to be confused with Liquid. Originally in MGS2, Snake was going to revert back to his normal hair color, but the staff decided against it. They argued that people identified Snake with his brown hair, and for most it wasn't common knowledge that he was originally blonde. So now it's pretty much accepted that Snake has brown hair.

Brown hair is a dominant gene, whereas blonde hair is a recessive gene. So why is it that Liquid (dominant) has blonde hair and Snake (recessive) now has brown hair?

I know absolutely nothing about DNA/genetics, so someone please explain.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Don't trust Metal Gear Solid for genetics. Also Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes retconned Solid Snake's blonde hair. But here's the way I see it:

Liquid Snake's blonde hair is dominant and Big Boss just simply exhibited a recessive trait. Liquid Snake has all the dominant genes, Solid Snake has all the recessive genes, and Soldius Snake has the best of both even if a recessive gene was superior to the dominant gene and vice versa.

 

[Boom]

Don't trust Metal Gear Solid for genetics. Also Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes retconned Solid Snake's blonde hair. But here's the way I see it:

Liquid Snake's blonde hair is dominant and Big Boss just simply exhibited a recessive trait. Liquid Snake has all the dominant genes, Solid Snake has all the recessive genes, and Soldius Snake has the best of both even if a recessive gene was superior to the dominant gene and vice versa.

Even if TTS changed Solid Snake from originally being blonde, that doesn't explain why Liquid (who has all of the dominant genes) doesn't have brown hair, and why Solid Snake (who has all the recessive genes) now doesn't have blonde hair. It should be switched.

Liquid has Big Boss' dominant genes. Brown hair is a dominant gene. Big Boss had it. If I understand this correctly, Liquid should have brown hair.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Even if TTS changed Solid Snake from originally being blonde, that doesn't explain why Liquid (who has all of the dominant genes) doesn't have brown hair, and why Solid Snake (who has all the recessive genes) now doesn't have blonde hair.

It should be switched. Liquid has Big Boss' dominant genes. Brown hair is a dominant gene. Big Boss had it. If I understand this correctly, liquid should have brown hair.

But people don't exhibit just dominant or just recessive genes. They exhibit both. Brown hair must have been a recessive trait that Big Boss exhibited and the blonde hair must have been a dominant trait that was not exhibited.

 

[Boom]

But people don't exhibit just dominant or just recessive genes. They exhibit both. Brown hair must have been a recessive trait that Big Boss exhibited and the blonde hair must have been a dominant trait that was not exhibited.

Alright, so logically:

Liquid Snake is mostly dominant, but obtained a recessive blonde hair gene.
Solid Snake is mostly recessive, but obtained a dominant brown hair gene.

Or, if you want to go with what it was originally:

Solid Snake is mostly recessive, and obtained a recessive blonde hair gene.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Alright, so logically:

Liquid Snake is mostly dominant, but obtained a recessive blonde hair gene.
Solid Snake is mostly recessive, but obtained a dominant brown hair gene.

Or, if you want to go with what it was originally.

Solid Snake is mostly recessive, and obtained a recessive blonde hair gene.

No

Liquid Snake is 100% dominant and obtained the dominant blond hair gene. This dominant gene was not expressed by Big Boss.

Solid Snake is 100% recessive and obtained the recessive brown hair gene. This recessive gene was expressed by Big Boss.

Solidus Snake had the best genes. He expressed both recessive and dominant genes, just like Big Boss. Which ever gene had the best result he received. Hence why he was the perfect combiniation.

 

[Boom]

No

Liquid Snake is 100% dominant and obtained the dominant blond hair gene. This dominant gene was not expressed by Big Boss.

Solid Snake is 100% recessive and obtained the recessive brown hair gene. This recessive gene was expressed by Big Boss.

Solidus Snake had the best genes. He expressed both recessive and dominant genes, just like Big Boss. Which ever gene had the best result he received. Hence why he was the perfect combiniation.

Alright, I'm trying to get on the same page as you. Here's what I have.

A recessive gene refers to an allele that causes a phenotype (visible or detectable characteristic) that is only seen in a homozygous genotype (an organism that has two copies of the same allele). Every person has two copies of every gene, one from mother and one from father. If a genetic trait is recessive, a person needs to inherit two copies of the gene for the trait to be expressed. Thus, both parents have to be carriers of a recessive trait in order for a child to express that trait. If both parents are carriers, there is a 25% chance with each child to show the recessive trait.

So let's suppose we have Big Boss and the woman who bore the octuplets.

Big Boss: Rr (the lower case "r" representing the recessive blonde gene).
Woman: Rr

Both are unaffected "carriers" of the recessive

There are four possible combinations that their children could have:

Rr -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
RR -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
rR -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
rr -- Affected, with a 1-4 chance.

Liquid falls under the category of rr, and therefore inherited the recessive blonde gene that both his parents carried (but were unaffected by).

 

[hippie_hunter]

Alright, I'm trying to get on the same page as you. Here's what I have.

A recessive gene refers to an allele that causes a phenotype (visible or detectable characteristic) that is only seen in a homozygous genotype (an organism that has two copies of the same allele). Every person has two copies of every gene, one from mother and one from father. If a genetic trait is recessive, a person needs to inherit two copies of the gene for the trait to be expressed. Thus, both parents have to be carriers of a recessive trait in order for a child to express that trait. If both parents are carriers, there is a 25% chance with each child to show the recessive trait.

So let's suppose we have Big Boss and the woman who bore the octuplets.

Big Boss: Rr (the lower case "r" representing the recessive blonde gene).
Woman: Rr

Both are unaffected "carriers" of the recessive

There are four possible combinations that their children could have:

Rr -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
RR -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
rR -- Unaffected, with a 1-4 chance.
rr -- Affected, with a 1-4 chance.

Liquid falls under the category of rr, and therefore inherited the recessive blonde gene that both his parents carried (but were unaffected by).

The woman who carried the fetuses of the clones of Big Boss did not have her genetic material implanted into the clones. The clone fetuses were created first then were implanted into the woman (sorta like what Phoebe did in that TV show Friends) hence the clones have 100% of their genetic material from Big Boss, no one else.

 

[Boom]

The woman who carried the fetuses of the clones of Big Boss did not have her genetic material implanted into the clones. The clone fetuses were created first then were implanted into the woman (sorta like what Phoebe did in that TV show Friends) hence the clones have 100% of their genetic material from Big Boss, no one else.

So that means that Big Boss obtained a blonde hair gene from his parents. It just wasn't dominant in him?

See, this is the sort of thing that confuses me.

 

[hippie_hunter]

So that means that Big Boss obtained a blonde hair gene from his parents. It just wasn't dominant in him?

Yes, he obtained the blonde haired gene from his parents. It is a dominant gene, he just didn't exhibit it.

 

[Boom]

Yes, he obtained the blonde haired gene from his parents. It is a dominant gene, he just didn't exhibit it.

But when one parent bears a dominant gene, and the other parent bears a recessive gene, the dominant gene wins out.

If Big Boss was brown-haired, that means that the brown hair gene was dominant?

I was under the impression that blonde hair was always a recessive gene.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But when one parent bears a dominant gene, and the other parent bears a recessive gene, the dominant gene wins out.

If Big Boss was brown-haired, that means that the brown hair gene was dominant?

I was under the impression that blonde hair was always a recessive gene.

Not true if that were the case many recessive genetic disorders that are carried by only one parent like hemophelia, wouldn't come about.

 

[Boom]

Anyway, here's my other explanation.

Liquid Snake said that he had the "flawed, recessive genes." In reality, this is only half-true. He does in fact have the recessive genes (as shown by his blonde hair), but that doesn't mean he is flawed. Dominant genes do not mean better genes. Liquid is the superior clone with recessive genes.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Anyway, here's my other explanation.

Liquid Snake said that he had the "flawed, recessive genes." In reality, this is only half-true. He does in fact have the recessive genes (as shown by his blonde hair), but that doesn't mean he is flawed. Dominant genes do not mean better genes. Liquid is the superior clone with recessive genes.

I've thought of that also. That's the only other conclusion, that the Patriots and Solidus Snake lied to Revolver Ocelot and that Solid Snake really is the dominant clone. Just because a gene is recessive doesn't mean it's inferior to the dominant gene.

 

[XwolverineX]

What it the!? I thought Snake had the dominant genes, that's why liquid was jealous of him.

 

[The Last Meatbag]

............*head a'splodes*

 

[hippie_hunter]

What it the!? I thought Snake had the dominant genes, that's why liquid was jealous of him.

Nope, at the end of the credits of Metal Gear Solid there's a conversation between Ocelot and Solidus that reveals that Liquid was the dominant clone. Liquid beleived that he was the recessive clone until the final minutes of his life where he realised that Snake was the recessive clone. Big Boss told Liquid all his life that he was the recessive clone and that Snake was the superior clone causing Liquid to develop an inferiority complex.

However that could be a lie on account that Snake looks exactly like Big Boss in his younger days instead of Liquid looking exactly like Big Boss in his younger days.

 

[XwolverineX]

Nope, at the end of the credits of Metal Gear Solid there's a conversation between Ocelot and Solidus that reveals that Liquid was the dominant clone. Liquid beleived that he was the recessive clone until the final minutes of his life where he realised that Snake was the recessive clone. Big Boss told Liquid all his life that he was the recessive clone and that Snake was the superior clone causing Liquid to develop an inferiority complex.

However that could be a lie on account that Snake looks exactly like Big Boss in his younger days instead of Liquid looking exactly like Big Boss in his younger days.

Okay cool, thanks fer clearing it up.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i have a theory that when Big Boss was clones they were more worried about the SOLDIER genes than the genes that make up hair/skin/eye color. remember...according to the briefing before Twin Snakes, the colonel said that Liquid's complexion is darker than Snake's.

 

[Master Chief]

I read the hippie and thread starter go back and forth, and... well, it makes me want to say, "F**k genetics."

 

[hippie_hunter]

I read the hippie and thread starter go back and forth, and... well, it makes me want to say, "F**k genetics."

Actually Metal Gear Solid isn't a good source for genetics.

 

[Master Chief]

Duuuuuh... MGS is only really kickass for its story and simple gameplay.

 

[lars573]

Boom Hippie your both operating under an error. Any shade between black and blonde is dominant. Having red hair is recessive. Just like having eye colur between green and brown so dark it's almost black is dominant to having blue eyes.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Boom Hippie your both operating under an error. Any shade between black and blonde is dominant. Having red hair is recessive. Just like having eye colur between green and brown so dark it's almost black is dominant to having blue eyes.

This is Metal Gear Solid though, so you have to modify the laws of genetics a little bit for it to make sense, because one clone has 100% recessive genes and 100% dominant genes. Metal Gear Solid is a piss poor source for learning genetics.

 

[lars573]

Ahh but, the shade of your hair isn't set in stone. It changes as you grow, and can be affected by other genetic factors. For example both my father and myself had almost platinum blond hair as kids. His is now brown and mine is still a very dark shade of blonde. So Solid and Liquid having blonde and brown hair does make sense, as they are different flavors of the same man.