Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Lightning Strykez!]

That's just silly.

Fanboys tend to ***** about almost EVERYTHING at one point or another. Usually became they lack imagination or context. Or is there a certain point when the *****ing stops that it becomes okay.

Of course.

And that's why FOX put a muzzle on Trank this week right? Yes, that must be it.

 

[The Guard]

Of course.

And that's why FOX put a muzzle on Trank this week right? Yes, that must be it.

Where's the proof that FOX put a muzzle on Trank?

All we know is that Trank took down his Twitter.

If FOX wanted to "muzzle" him, they would ask him not to say anything else about the film, not to take down his personal Twitter.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm sick of the crap in here. I just deleted a mess of posts that in no way advanced conversation in this thread! All they were was trollish and condescending, so I will be handing out some punishments shortly.

It is mind boggling how many times people have to be told in here to not be jerks! Especially in the short amount of time that this cast has been announced. It is RIDICULOUS!

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Where's the proof that FOX put a muzzle on Trank?

All we know is that Trank took down his Twitter.

If FOX wanted to "muzzle" him, they would ask him not to say anything else about the film, not to take down his personal Twitter.

Reread your post.

Are you purposely being evasive, even when hard facts and sheer common sense suggest a fair, reasonable outcome? It seems that if something is not literally spelled out with airplanes via sky-writing you will do everything you can to wiggle yourself out of a case before finally admitting something is the truth.

I'm not playing that "Riddle Me This"/"Endless Possibilities!" game with you tonight; I'm tired.

[BLACKOUT]And I know you're going to post something to the effect of "I have nothing to prove," or "I'm not playing a game" etc., but...you are. LOL [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Where's the proof that FOX put a muzzle on Trank?

All we know is that Trank took down his Twitter.

If FOX wanted to "muzzle" him, they would ask him not to say anything else about the film, not to take down his personal Twitter.

That personal Twitter has been the only medium he has used to communicate anything about this film so far, so I say it's pretty much the same thing.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Umm... Maybe he took down his account himself because of abuse from irate fans that may very well range from the mildly intolerant to full on death threats? Cuz, I have to say, seeing how posters here reacted to pictures of bored dogs and some comic book panels, it's not beyond my imagination to think he's receiving way worse elsewhere.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Umm... Maybe he took down his account himself because of abuse from irate fans that may very well range from the mildly intolerant to full on death threats? Cuz, I have to say, seeing how posters here reacted to pictures of bored dogs and some comic book panels, it's not beyond my imagination to think he's receiving way worse elsewhere.

You mean reactions from fans due to his defensive, condescending comments and off beat casting decisions?

Yeah, that's generally the science of how cause-and-effect works.

 

[JP]

Umm... Maybe he took down his account himself because of abuse from irate fans that may very well range from the mildly intolerant to full on death threats? Cuz, I have to say, seeing how posters here reacted to pictures of bored dogs and some comic book panels, it's not beyond my imagination to think he's receiving way worse elsewhere.

Especially on twitter where there are no filters/moderators.

 

[The Guard]

Reread your post.

Are you purposely being evasive, even when hard facts and sheer common sense suggest a fair, reasonable outcome? It seems that if something is not literally spelled out with airplanes via sky-writing you will do everything you can to wiggle yourself out of a case before finally admitting something is the truth.

You'll have to forgive my skepticism. I'm a special investigator. I deal with facts and conjecture on a daily basis. I seek the truth for a living.

I require actual facts and actual evidence to draw a specific conclusion or to consider something the "truth". What you are referring to is not, in any way, shape or form "hard facts" about the situation.

Nor is it really common sense.

I'm simply pointing out that you can't prove that what you seem to think happened is what actually happened.

You and several of the other fans on this forum have jumped to conclusions about what happened and about this project, I assume because it suits your attempt to paint Josh Trank as someone who doesn't care about The Fantastic Four, the fans, basic human decency, or whatever the complaint is against him today.

 

[Sardaukar]

Changing the ages really does change the whole dynamic. If they really want to screw around with it so much, maybe they should call this Ultimate Fantastic Four. At least then there'd be some justification for it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Changing the ages really does change the whole dynamic. If they really want to screw around with it so much, maybe they should call this Ultimate Fantastic Four. At least then there'd be some justification for it.

Actually, like I said earlier, it isn't like the Ultimate Fantastic Four either.

 

[The Guard]

It isn't exactly like it, but the influence could certainly be there.

 

[Sardaukar]

Actually, like I said earlier, it isn't like the Ultimate Fantastic Four either.

Well I think they're younger in UFF, but this is as young as casts typically go for movies. It's like WB Smallville crap...you know where married adults are playing high schoolers lol

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You mean reactions from fans due to his defensive, condescending comments and off beat casting decisions?

Yeah, that's generally the science of how cause-and-effect works.

Again... Unless there is more to it than I currently know... People are intuiting condescension and flipping off of the fans from a picture of dogs sleeping on their sides and a panel from a comic book. How that even remotely is to be thought of as FLIPPING THE BIRD to fans is beyond my comprehension. There's a lot of righteous indignation going on around here, and to me eyes people are actually wallowing in it, cuz it can sometimes feel good to be angry, or at least feel like one is entitled to said anger.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I kinda understand some people are heavy on comic accuracy but seriously guys Jordan isn't a horrible choice. If he was white most won't mind him playing the part. The guy has the charm to do the part justice. It just makes me sad that people that are fans of characters that represent good human nature are so close minded. I would give someone here two months of XBox Live and a Tomb Raider xbox 360 download code if you can give me ONE solid example in the comics where Johnny's race played a role in his characters history.

Like I said, I kinda understand that some fans are heavy on the accuracy and that your opinion on the matter and that's fine I suppose.

But then there are people that are legit racist and use the comic accuracy angle to try to hide their racism. That's how I see it.

An example of this was when miles was introduced as Ultimate Spider Man. The amount of racism I saw was insane. Spider Man is Peter Parker yes a white guy. However, he could literally be anyone. Peters struggles are universal and relatable to anyone of any race. Peter being white had to influence on his is character, similar to Johnny.

I understand Captain America being a white guy as during his time racism was still heavy.

My point is that super heroes are for the most part universal. I just saddens me to see fans of these super heroes who are just so close minded on something such as race.

Maybe I am in a small minority but I wouldn't freak out if they recast Blade as a white guy. I would a least give the movie a shot before writing it off solely of race.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I kinda understand some people are heavy on comic accuracy but seriously guys Jordan isn't a horrible choice. If he was white most won't mind him playing the part. The guy has the charm to do the part justice. It just makes me sad that people that are fans of characters that represent good human nature are so close minded. I would give someone here two months of XBox Live and a Tomb Raider xbox 360 download code if you can give me ONE solid example in the comics where Johnny's race played a role in his characters history.

Like I said, I kinda understand that some fans are heavy on the accuracy and that your opinion on the matter and that's fine I suppose.

But then there are people that are legit racist and use the comic accuracy angle to try to hide their racism. That's how I see it.

An example of this was when miles was introduced as Ultimate Spider Man. The amount of racism I saw was insane. Spider Man is Peter Parker yes a white guy. However, he could literally be anyone. Peters struggles are universal and relatable to anyone of any race. Peter being white had to influence on his is character, similar to Johnny.

I understand Captain America being a white guy as during his time racism was still heavy.

My point is that super heroes are for the most part universal. I just saddens me to see fans of these super heroes who are just so close minded on something such as race.

Maybe I am in a small minority but I wouldn't freak out if they recast Blade as a white guy. I would a least give the movie a shot before writing it off solely of race.

People dislike MJB for a number of reasons, and dislike this cast for a number of reasons. I've seen all those reasons listed and discussed rationally, but because of the racial component, that particular issue becomes a flashpoint and the discussion of that particular element goes on much longer and gets more attention than it deserves.

I think most FF fans are upset that:

1. The actor playing Reed Richards has played whiney, imature, emotional characters that are nothing like Reed and he hasn't yet played a role that demonstrates he can play Reed (who should be the strong, confident, mature leader of the group).

2. MBJ is older and looks older, stronger and tougher than the pre-pubescent-looking actor playing Reed.

3. The cast (other than MJB) is too young and too 'light weight'.

4. MBJ doesn't look anything like Johnny.

5. Jamie Bell looks nothing like Ben.

6. Miles Teller doesn't look like Reed.

7. Jamie Bell is a British actor playing street-wise New Yorker Ben.

8. Kate Mara doesn't fit Sue's character.



While opinions will vary (I believe I'm somewhat alone in liking Jamie Bell for Ben) I believe this is an accurate summary of the biggest concerns fans have with this cast, and I believe I have also listed them roughly in order of general concern.

You'll note that MJB's race falls 4th on my list. So why is there so much talk about something that is only the 4th biggest concern? Because it involves race and race is a touchy topic, and those who want to belittle FF fans find it an easy target. And once they attack that easy target, emotions take over and the rational discussion gets pushed aside.

I was here when Kerry Washington was chosen as Alicia and I saw very little concern with that, so I don't have any concern that racism - as opposed to a general desire to have main characters that look like the characters they're playing - is at play.

But this post will soon be buried and the emotional discussion that will follow will continue to give the false impression that concerns with this cast are primarily about MJB's race.

 

[Zarex]

I kinda understand some people are heavy on comic accuracy but seriously guys Jordan isn't a horrible choice. If he was white most won't mind him playing the part. The guy has the charm to do the part justice. It just makes me sad that people that are fans of characters that represent good human nature are so close minded. I would give someone here two months of XBox Live and a Tomb Raider xbox 360 download code if you can give me ONE solid example in the comics where Johnny's race played a role in his characters history.

Like I said, I kinda understand that some fans are heavy on the accuracy and that your opinion on the matter and that's fine I suppose.

But then there are people that are legit racist and use the comic accuracy angle to try to hide their racism. That's how I see it.

An example of this was when miles was introduced as Ultimate Spider Man. The amount of racism I saw was insane. Spider Man is Peter Parker yes a white guy. However, he could literally be anyone. Peters struggles are universal and relatable to anyone of any race. Peter being white had to influence on his is character, similar to Johnny.

I understand Captain America being a white guy as during his time racism was still heavy.

My point is that super heroes are for the most part universal. I just saddens me to see fans of these super heroes who are just so close minded on something such as race.

Maybe I am in a small minority but I wouldn't freak out if they recast Blade as a white guy. I would a least give the movie a shot before writing it off solely of race.

The Jordan casting is the issue that's always brought up by supporters of the FFINO reboot, because posters LOVE calling out others on what they percieve to to be discrimination. But Jordan's casting is far from the most grievous casting error committed by Trank and FOX, and I still contend that a black Johnny Storm could have been sold to the longtime fans if the studio, director and actor had a clue as to what they are doing.

My ranking of the casting problems (in reverse order)

5) Kate Mara - No real problem here, but she has a much lower profile than the woman she is replacing in the role. If FOX is hoping to match the modest BO totals of the first two films, this probably isn't a good start. And if Jordan's black, why not cast an actress of African descent for Johnny's sister? Black women have much lower representation in comic book movies than black men.

4) Michael Jordan - He's very talented, and every superhero film can absorb at least one "out of left field" casting decision. But it's difficult to change an iconic character who has been depicted in a particular way for over half a century in comics, animation and film - longer still if you include the Jim Hammond original. Trank and Jordan needed to get in front on the issue and sell it -but they may be too late.

3) Jamie Bell - A slight, British dancer to play rumpled Jewish street-tough and college football star Ben Grimm? Perfect!

2) Miles Teller - "But it's the Ultimate Version! Twenty-something Reed is a thing that exists!" As much as anyone Reed is the "Dad" of the FF. Hell, he's the Dad of the entire Marvel Universe. Reducing him to a *****ey young guy (I'm referencing other posters - I am not familiar with Teller's work) is the worst thing possible.

1) The Team - The team, as it is currently cast, doesn't work. If you're going to cast a black twenty-something Johnny Storm, hire his African American sister and a much older Reed. If you're foolish enough to go with younger Reed, Johnny needs to be a teenager. Ben, Johnny and Reed shouldn't be around the same age under any circumstances because it changes the family dynamic to something that is completely unrecognizable.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The Jordan casting is the issue that's always brought up by supporters of the FFINO reboot, because posters LOVE calling out others on what they percieve to to be discrimination. But Jordan's casting is far from the most grievous casting error committed by Trank and FOX, and I still contend that a black Johnny Storm could have been sold to the longtime fans if the studio, director and actor had a clue as to what they are doing.

My ranking of the casting problems (in reverse order)

5) Kate Mara - No real problem here, but she has a much lower profile than the woman she is replacing in the role. If FOX is hoping to match the modest BO totals of the first two films, this probably isn't a good start. And if Jordan's black, why not cast an actress of African descent for Johnny's sister? Black women have much lower representation in comic book movies than black men.

4) Michael Jordan - He's very talented, and every superhero film can absorb at least one "out of left field" casting decision. But it's difficult to change an iconic character who has been depicted in a particular way for over half a century in comics, animation and film - longer still if you include the Jim Hammond original. Trank and Jordan needed to get in front on the issue and sell it -but they may be too late.

3) Jamie Bell - A slight, British dancer to play rumpled Jewish street-tough and college football star Ben Grimm? Perfect!

2) Miles Teller - "But it's the Ultimate Version! Twenty-something Reed is a thing that exists!" As much as anyone Reed is the "Dad" of the FF. Hell, he's the Dad of the entire Marvel Universe. Reducing him to a *****ey young guy (I'm referencing other posters - I am not familiar with Teller's work) is the worst thing possible.

1) The Team - The team, as it is currently cast, doesn't work. If you're going to cast a black twenty-something Johnny Storm, hire his African American sister and a much older Reed. If you're foolish enough to go with younger Reed, Johnny needs to be a teenager. Ben, Johnny and Reed shouldn't be around the same age under any circumstances because it changes the family dynamic to something that is completely unrecognizable.

Nicely said.

 

[Donut]

I wonder if the rest of the cast will make fun of MFJ for being BFFs with the director ? That is after all the only reason he got the part

 

[starscream22]

Idris Elba as Heimdall got the same reaction. and, in that case, it turned out that fans really barked more than they bit.

Your comparing Heimdall to Johnny Storm???

Try again...

Other than some lame rumor that white supremacist groups of all people where boycotting Thor, no one cared. It's not like Idris Elba was cast as THOR.

I also like to put out there and I'm sure many will agree that Chris Evans was one of the couple things that FOX did get right with the first two F4 films.

This cast here is just FOX saying "Eff'em, lets hold on this this franchise a little longer."

 

[Dark Raven]

People dislike MJB for a number of reasons, and dislike this cast for a number of reasons. I've seen all those reasons listed and discussed rationally, but because of the racial component, that particular issue becomes a flashpoint and the discussion of that particular element goes on much longer and gets more attention than it deserves.

I think most FF fans are upset that:

1. The actor playing Reed Richards has played whiney, imature, emotional characters that are nothing like Reed and he hasn't yet played a role that demonstrates he can play Reed (who should be the strong, confident, mature leader of the group).

2. MBJ is older and looks older, stronger and tougher than the pre-pubescent-looking actor playing Reed.

3. The cast (other than MJB) is too young and too 'light weight'.

4. MBJ doesn't look anything like Johnny.

5. Jamie Bell looks nothing like Ben.

6. Miles Teller doesn't look like Reed.

7. Jamie Bell is a British actor playing street-wise New Yorker Ben.

8. Kate Mara doesn't fit Sue's character.



While opinions will vary (I believe I'm somewhat alone in liking Jamie Bell for Ben) I believe this is an accurate summary of the biggest concerns fans have with this cast, and I believe I have also listed them roughly in order of general concern.

You'll note that MJB's race falls 4th on my list. So why is there so much talk about something that is only the 4th biggest concern? Because it involves race and race is a touchy topic, and those who want to belittle FF fans find it an easy target. And once they attack that easy target, emotions take over and the rational discussion gets pushed aside.

I was here when Kerry Washington was chosen as Alicia and I saw very little concern with that, so I don't have any concern that racism - as opposed to a general desire to have main characters that look like the characters they're playing - is at play.

But this post will soon be buried and the emotional discussion that will follow will continue to give the false impression that concerns with this cast are primarily about MJB's race.

The cast last time round felt really lightweight (Evans and Alba's stars hadn't risen to the level they are now) and almost TV actorish (especially Gruffudd, Chiklis and McMahon - well, and Alba too at the time).

And this time round, they still feel lightweight. Can't Fox ever get some decent and seasoned actors in the parts? Some bigger names even?

But of course they wouldn't be willing to invest in that for a movie like this where they're just trying to hold onto the rights. It almost seems like a bit of a home movie for Trank where his buddy Jordan is just helping him out, and Jordan suggested some guy he knows (Teller) who could do it for cheap. It's starting to feel almost like some fan film.

 

[The Guard]

Family dynamics and visuals in comparison to comic book characters aside...

Some people on here seem to have issues understanding the concept of "acting".

 

[Zarex]

Family dynamics and visuals in comparison to comic book characters aside...

Some people on here seem to have issues understanding the concept of "acting".

Others don't quite comprehend "casting".

 

[The Guard]

Nice try. "Casting" is relative to the script's portrayal of characters and what each actor brings to the table, not merely an amalgamation of what has been on the comic book pages.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Nice try. "Casting" is relative to the script's portrayal of characters and what each actor brings to the table, not merely an amalgamation of what has been on the comic book pages.

Exactly! And that's why people are so worried. If these actors fit the script, then the script doesn't portray the Fantastic Four.

I am hopeful that the script is better than this cast would indicate, but I think that's probably a foolish hope.

We'll likely get a script that is UFF or worse, and neither I nor any other fan who grew up reading FF will be able to see our favorite characters brought to the big screen.