Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Mr. Fixit]

"There was something somebody affiliated with the project said (can't remember exactly) that indicated Sue and Johnny might not be brother and sister."

If they are not related then logically we should see the playboy Johny Storm hitting on Sue at some point. If she doesn't go for him he can tell her...

"C'mon Sue, its not like we're related or anything"...Then Michael B Jordan can look directly at the camera and wink.



And there should be a little *ding* sound when he winks.

At that point Marvel can officially begin thinking about how to best incorporate FF into their Marvel universe because Fox will have completed their failure.

 

[Paradox1]

This is a article I read about the reaction on twitter and across the net.

http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2014/03/04/racism-twitter-fantastic-four-cast

 

[BestGirl]

"There was something somebody affiliated with the project said (can't remember exactly) that indicated Sue and Johnny might not be brother and sister."

If they are not related then logically we should see the playboy Johny Storm hitting on Sue at some point. If she doesn't go for him he can tell her...

"C'mon Sue, its not like we're related or anything"...Then Michael B Jordan can look directly at the camera and wink.



And there should be a little *ding* sound when he winks.

At that point Marvel can officially begin thinking about how to best incorporate FF into their Marvel universe because Fox will have completed their failure.

That particular rumor probably got started when the person working on the film saw that Trank was casting a black man and a white woman for their parts.

 

[starscream22]

"There was something somebody affiliated with the project said (can't remember exactly) that indicated Sue and Johnny might not be brother and sister."

If they are not related then logically we should see the playboy Johny Storm hitting on Sue at some point. If she doesn't go for him he can tell her...

"C'mon Sue, its not like we're related or anything"...Then Michael B Jordan can look directly at the camera and wink.



And there should be a little *ding* sound when he winks.

At that point Marvel can officially begin thinking about how to best incorporate FF into their Marvel universe because Fox will have completed their failure.

You know what...That's not a bad idea. If FOX make the team as far left as a legit F4 team could be Marvel wouldn't have that much of a problem rebooting this franchise in 10 years. But in the meantime GOTG would still be able to use Silver Surfer, Galactus and the Negative Zone. Not to mention Doom being a threat in the MCU.

 

[Kelly]

This is a article I read about the reaction on twitter and across the net.

http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/?q=article/2014/03/04/racism-twitter-fantastic-four-cast

Nothing new here...another person pretty much calling those who do not understand the casting of MJB as stupid, ignorant, bigots....without of course using any of those terms, but it is rather obvious. These fans are just stupid, and they live back in the 1960s.

But, in reality really bringing nothing new to the table as to why?


ooooh wait....I see his reasoning, because this will end racism. BS....I call BS. Racism will always be around as long as people are looking within every post, beneath every discussion and around every corner where a minority might be standing and next to him/her is a "high and mighty, holier than thou member of the thought police and academy of political correctness, because HOW DARE people have the desire to see their favorite piece of art/literature on the big screen as they have enjoyed it and remembered it for decades. HOW DARE THEY be so stupid, ignorant and narrow minded to simply have a desire to see a representation of their childhood brought to the theater. HOW RIDICULOUS OF THEM TO WANT THAT. HOW BIGOTED IS IT OF PEOPLE TO SIMPLY ASK................WHY THE CHANGE? HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE...."

 

[Picard Sisko]

There is nothing about Human Torch that is inherently "white," so there is no reason for people to flip about Michael B. Jordan being cast as the character.

 

[Kelly]

There is nothing about Human Torch that is inherently "white," so there is no reason for people to flip about Michael B. Jordan being cast as the character.

That is your opinion, and that is perfectly fine....honestly, totally respect it. But others do not share that opinion, and I see nothing wrong with that either.

I'm going to go see the movie, purely out of wondering what we will end up with....and being kinda interested in that, but doesn't mean I still don't have the question as to why this casting. I just see no need for it.

I honestly believe that a better, more respectful way to bring roles to black actors, women, all of those that truly are not seen enough in Hollywood IMO, is to write solid scripts for them, to write solid, characters that can become as iconic as these that we have been discussing. That to me shows much more respect to these young actors than making a change like this for the sake of making a change. I honestly see nothing respectful or racially sensitive about this choice, others do, and that is ok, but being as candid and honest as I can...I don't see it that way.

 

[Ant-manic]

That is your opinion, and that is perfectly fine....honestly, totally respect it. But others do not share that opinion, and I see nothing wrong with that either.

I'm going to go see the movie, purely out of wondering what we will end up with....and being kinda interested in that, but doesn't mean I still don't have the question as to why this casting. I just see no need for it.

I honestly believe that a better, more respectful way to bring roles to black actors, women, all of those that truly are not seen enough in Hollywood IMO, is to write solid scripts for them, to write solid, characters that can become as iconic as these that we have been discussing. That to me shows much more respect to these young actors than making a change like this for the sake of making a change. I honestly see nothing respectful or racially sensitive about this choice, others do, and that is ok, but being as candid and honest as I can...I don't see it that way.

why must there be a deeper reasoning behind the casting? why can't it just be that the director thinks he's the right pick? race shouldn't even be a factor. they aren't retelling history.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There is nothing about Human Torch that is inherently "white," so there is no reason for people to flip about Michael B. Jordan being cast as the character.

He's too old for the role given his co-stars. There is a lot more wrong with this cast than one of the actors being the wrong race.

If everything was exactly the same except Jordan was white, the cast would still not resemble the Fantastic Four.

 

[Kelly]

why must there be a deeper reasoning behind the casting? why can't it just be that the director thinks he's the right pick? race shouldn't even be a factor. they aren't retelling history.

I have no problem with that really, I just don't agree with his choices (plural as in more than just Johnny)...but I definitely understand that he has the right to choose whomever he wishes. I have the right to wonder why the choice could not have been artistically as well as literally closer to the 60 years of history and this character in many of the choices we have seen thus far. That's all...

 

[Picard Sisko]

That is your opinion, and that is perfectly fine....honestly, totally respect it. But others do not share that opinion, and I see nothing wrong with that either.

I appreciate you respecting my opinion, and I respect yours. Though I really do not see how Human Torch is inherently white. There is nothing 'white' about him other than the fact that he was white in the comic books, so people shouldn't have an issue with him being black in the new movie.

I'm going to go see the movie, purely out of wondering what we will end up with....and being kinda interested in that, but doesn't mean I still don't have the question as to why this casting. I just see no need for it.

I don't know if there has to be a "need" to cast a black actor. What if Jordan just happened to fit the role very well? Isn't that more than enough?

I honestly believe that a better, more respectful way to bring roles to black actors, women, all of those that truly are not seen enough in Hollywood IMO, is to write solid scripts for them, to write solid, characters that can become as iconic as these that we have been discussing. That to me shows much more respect to these young actors than making a change like this for the sake of making a change. I honestly see nothing respectful or racially sensitive about this choice, others do, and that is ok, but being as candid and honest as I can...I don't see it that way.

There aren't too many great black superheroes in comic books. We have Blade, Luke Cage, Spawn, Green Lantern, Black Panther... and I can't think of anymore. There are others, but they just don't have that same appeal as Spider-Man, Wolverine, Superman, Batman, Iron Man, and so on. There isn't anything wrong with changing a few white characters to black on film. Otherwise we wouldn't have Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury.

 

[Human Torch]

There is nothing about Human Torch that is inherently "white," so there is no reason for people to flip about Michael B. Jordan being cast as the character.

Every time people use this argument,I just....

 

[Kelly]

I appreciate you respecting my opinion, and I respect yours. Though I really do not see how Human Torch is inherently white. There is nothing 'white' about him other than the fact that he was white in the comic books, so people shouldn't have an issue with him being black in the new movie.

White is simply a color, or lack thereof to me....having taught for 23 years, I know, for a fact...that the different ethnic groups and races in my room that I teach daily are alike in many instances yes, but because of their ethnic background because of their race and the environment that that brings with it, they are also very different in culture, in dialect, a different vernacular, a different use of vocabulary, that goes far beyond their similarities. In all honesty, I think that is cool and makes them unique in a wonderful way, I would hate to think that I needed to change the color of their skin and try and make them more like someone else in order to feel like I am showing them the respect they deserve for who they are.. LET ME BE CLEAR, it does not make them less or more of a person, it simply makes them different, and I have not had anyone change my mind on that...I see it every day in teenagers in my classroom, and I find it extremely degrading to think that in order to make them more relevant, I have to make them like the person next to them though I know for a fact they are not and that should be respected as well.

I don't know if there has to be a "need" to cast a black actor. What if Jordan just happened to fit the role very well? Isn't that more than enough?

No, it is not enough, when I honestly believe there are others that fit the character artistically and in character as much or better than this choice. I can say that for those chosen for Reed, Sue and Ben... I'm very interested on seeing their take on these characters, but doesn't change my opinion that there are those that would have been better.

There aren't too many great black superheroes in comic books. We have Blade, Luke Cage, Spawn, Green Lantern, Black Panther... and I can't think of anymore. There are others, but they just don't have that same appeal as Spider-Man, Wolverine, Superman, Batman, Iron Man, and so on. There isn't anything wrong with changing a few white characters to black on film. Otherwise we wouldn't have Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury.

I'm very aware of that, and I believe that is a change that is a long time coming. But, again, and I strongly state this.....I believe the disrespect comes from not creating these characters on their own merit, not changing the race of a character to piggy back on that characters iconic history.
That is riding coat tails in my opinion, and that shows far more disrespect of black actors than anything I have read on this forum.

 

[Picard Sisko]

White is simply a color, or lack thereof to me....having taught for 23 years, I know, for a fact...that the different ethnic groups and races in my room that I teach daily are alike in many instances yes, but because of their ethnic background because of their race and the environment that that brings with it, they are also very different in culture, in dialect, a different vernacular, a different use of vocabulary, that goes far beyond their similarities.

Not everyone in a racial group fits a stereotype. Just because someone is black does not mean he or she will have a different vocabulary or vernacular. Do you seriously think every black person uses slang or speaks a certain vernacular?

In all honesty, I think that is cool and makes them unique in a wonderful way, I would hate to think that I needed to change the color of their skin and try and make them more like someone else in order to feel like I am showing them the respect they deserve for who they are..

Huh? So are you saying that putting a black person in the role of a traditionally white character is taking away from the unique of that actor's racial group?

Every time people use this argument,I just....

Can't handle the truth?

 

[Kelly]

Not everyone in a racial group fits a stereotype. Just because someone is black does not mean he or she will have a different vocabulary or vernacular. Do you seriously think every black person uses slang or speaks a certain vernacular?



Huh? So are you saying that putting a black person in the role of a traditionally white character is taking away from the unique of that actor's racial group?



Can't handle the truth?

I'm not speaking of stereotypes, I am speaking of true deep, cultural differences that are rich in their history.

The fact that you immediately dwindle it down to a stereotype and don't understand what I am saying....pretty much tells me we really don't have much more to talk about with this...unfortunate, but the reality that I see.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I'm not speaking of stereotypes, I am speaking of true deep, cultural differences that are rich in their history.

The fact that you immediately dwindle it down to a stereotype and don't understand what I am saying....pretty much tells me we really don't have much more to talk about with this...unfortunate, but the reality that I see.

What do "deep, cultural differences" have to do with anything? Why is that even relevant?

The reason why I brought up stereotypes is because you said, "they are also very different in culture, in dialect, a different vernacular, a different use of vocabulary, that goes far beyond their similarities."

If you believe that black people all have a different vocabulary or vernacular from white people, then you are stereotyping.

 

[Sardaukar]

Michael B Jordan's name was attached to this movie basically as soon as Trank became involved. Jordan starred in Trank's first major feature film. IMO, it's likely nothing more than good ol' fashioned hollywood nepotism rather than "oh, we looked far and wide and he's the perfect choice for Johnny Storm." I am doubtful that they seriously looked elsewhere for other actors of any color. Can I be sure? No, but it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. And let's get real here, there's probably a thousand good looking male actors in Hollywood who could do a decent job in the role. But that's just the way it is in the industry.

 

[Human Torch]

Can't handle the truth?

It's sad that white characters are not considered defined by their race,while black characters are.That concept is the very essence of r-......eh,I'll leave it at that.

 

[Picard Sisko]

It's sad that white characters are not considered defined by their race,while black characters are.That concept is the very essence of r-......eh,I'll leave it at that.

The only black characters that are defined by their race are Black Panther and Storm. And honestly, the only reason why you wouldn't turn a black character into a white one is because there are barely and black characters to begin with, so what would be the point?

P.S.

Aren't Kraven the Hunter and Chameleon defined by their race?

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't mind Johnny being black, especially since I think Michael B. Jordan is a great casting choice. But I do mind Sue and Johnny being of different ethnicity, as well as Johnny's age relative to the rest of the team. It's not so much that MBJ can't pull off Johnny Storm; it's that he is miscast in the context of this particular scenario. However, that's not really his fault (it's Fox/Trank's).

 

[Picard Sisko]

I don't mind Johnny being black, especially since I think Michael B. Jordan is a great casting choice. But I do mind Sue and Johnny being of different ethnicity, as well as Johnny's age relative to the rest of the team. It's not so much that MBJ can't pull off Johnny Storm; it's that he is miscast in the context of this particular scenario. However, that's not really his fault (it's Fox/Trank's).

This I can understand. For me, I feel like if they were going to make Johnny Storm black, then they should have done the same with Sue Storm. Though I'm fine with one of them being adopted.

Though my BIGGEST gripe is that Mr. Fantastic and Ben Grimm are basically around the same age as Johnny Storm. Sigh.

 

[Sardaukar]

The only solid casting is Kate Mara, imo. She seems to be at the right age, is good looking, is a great actress, etc.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

This I can understand. For me, I feel like if they were going to make Johnny Storm black, then they should have done the same with Sue Storm. Though I'm fine with one of them being adopted.

Though my BIGGEST gripe is that Mr. Fantastic and Ben Grimm are basically around the same age as Johnny Storm. Sigh.

Exactly. I would be far more forgiving of the casting of Johnny had they got Reed and Ben right.

Honestly, I'd probably be happier if Jordan was Reed and Teller was Johnny. At least Teller looks younger than the others, even if he isn't.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

All of this bitter back and forth will be totally irrelevant if this movie is a disastrous flop.

What a difference between this movie and what Marvel has going with GOTG.

GOTG has (most) fans excited and eagerly awaiting the movie and hoping its a hit. Keep in mind how few people even knew who GOTG were prior to the latest trailer.

This new FF movie however keeps dragging along with nothing going for it other than fan backlash and arguments about supposed racism. There is almost nothing positive or hopeful about this project. It's a depressing mess.

 

[Paladin-Hoss]

So...the argument about Jordan casting is really; what's the harm about changing Storm ethnicity if all his character traits are still the same...

Well if that's true, then why change him at all?