Fant4stic Michael B Jordan is "Flame On!" The Human Torch - Part 2

[Flint Marko]

So you're saying someone like myself isn't being honest. Come on!

At the very least you're misinformed.

 

[Paradox1]

So MBJ being one of the hottest young actors in world doesn't count?

 

[wobbly]

So you're saying someone like myself isn't being honest. Come on!

Ok, if you think Trank is being honest that's up to you, so in the interests of fairness perhaps this revision to the part you quoted will be more palatable:

"...However, many who have followed this production could easily conclude that such lofty ideals did not enter into it."

There you go, your own honesty is no longer questioned.

 

[Tony Stark]

So MBJ being one of the hottest young actors in world doesn't count?

You mean hot as in, 'highly in demand'? Because since Chronicle, he has had some voice over work, a couple of indie films and a guest spot on a TV show.

I'd say it's highly debatable that MBJ is one of the hottest young actors. Maybe a highly touted up and commer, but to say he's one of the hottest young actors suggests he's getting alot of roles. He's not.

 

[SuperT]

Honestly, at the end of the day does it really matter how he got the gig? He's an extremely talented, African-American actor that's getting the chance to play an iconic comic book superhero on the big screen. Something severely lacking in this genre and industry all together.

That pretty much trumps all this meaningless brouhaha over how he got the role.

 

[Kelly]

To be fair MJB has made a few of the top "young it people" in Hollywood this past year....he is definitely the "Jessica Alba" of this F4 movie.

There are many things to debate about with this movie, that really isn't one of them.

 

[Kelly]

Honestly, at the end of the day does it really matter how he got the gig? He's an extremely talented, African-American actor that's getting the chance to play an iconic comic book superhero on the big screen. Something severely lacking in this genre and industry all together.

That pretty much trumps all this meaningless brouhaha over how he got the role.

But, you will always have that person in these type of movies.

Jessica Alba was it for the last one...

Did she read for the part, did she not?
Did she get the part because Story was friends with people in the Rap Video industry?
there were several other reasons given as well...

It happens...for something to stay in the forefront of an argument, both sides have to bring it up continually.

You are right, its not a big deal. He got the part.....done.

Hell, back in the day, as in, Golden Age of Hollywood.....all directors had their favorites.

Come on people, get over it, ONCE AGAIN, there are many things to debate about regarding this film, this one is extremely low on the problem totem pole for the movie, I would debate that it would even need to be listed as a problem.

 

[Paradox1]

To be fair MJB has made a few of the top "young it people" in Hollywood this past year....he is definitely the "Jessica Alba" of this F4 movie.

There are many things to debate about with this movie, that really isn't one of them.

This+++ While Alba was seen as up and comer at one time, she was never on MBJ level as an actor. I don't think any of her performances were considered as one of the best of that year. People may not like the direction taken but the cast alone makes it worth watching for me.

 

[pavlov]

Not to mention Jessica Alba was clearly cast to pass off as a Caucasian.

 

[Dasher10]

If people here are admitting that MBJ's race and relationship to Sue won't significantly impact the film, why are we still talking about it?

 

[pavlov]

I'm not sure that it has that kind of Freudian twist to it....kinda weird there, and definitely headed toward an extreme edge of the spectrum to make the point sound stupid. It doesn't have to be anything more than...."I wanted MJB", why are you having to come up with muses and money? It's a pretty simple concept.

It does however look very much like MJB had the part locked as soon as Trank signed on. I can think of several actors of all races that could have played the part of Johnny beautifully, none others were rumored after Trank signed on....so pretty obvious. And as was already mentioned, not really a big deal, just it is what it is.

I'm also capable of hyperbole, you see.

 

[cronosred]

Not to mention Jessica Alba was clearly cast to pass off as a Caucasian.

They tried their hardest especially in the sequel. I still remember how shocked people were when they saw the first photos of her in the wig, make-up, and of course the contacts.

 

[Flint Marko]

If people here are admitting that MBJ's race and relationship to Sue won't significantly impact the film, why are we still talking about it?

Because Trank just did.

 

[pavlov]

It definitely makes more interesting to me to have a racially diverse family rather than have Sue be black as well. That's a representation that we haven't seen much of in mainstream cinema. Not to mention the fact that The white girl is the adopted child of a black family - something I don't hink has ever been shown previously. For me, the choices have clearly been inspired and progressive.

 

[SuperT]

How does making Sue adopted significantly impact the film? At the end of the day, they are both still siblings and the children of Dr. Franklin Storm. Sue being adopted seems like such a insignificant factor that impacts very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

[pavlov]

Honestly, at the end of the day does it really matter how he got the gig? He's an extremely talented, African-American actor that's getting the chance to play an iconic comic book superhero on the big screen. Something severely lacking in this genre and industry all together.

That pretty much trumps all this meaningless brouhaha over how he got the role.

Exactly. If he were a sh***y actor then I'd be pissed as well. I bet Trank saw a lot of parallelism between MBJ's roles in Chronicle and F4, which became the main driver in his decision to cast him. At the same time, it was a way for him to mirror his own family setup.

 

[Tony Stark]

They tried their hardest especially in the sequel. I still remember how shocked people were when they saw the first photos of her in the wig, make-up, and of course the contacts.

To be fair the reason for the wig in the second film, is because Jessica talked about how she ruined her hair from the strip bleaching she did on the first film, and she didn't want to do that again. However the makeup team should be blamed for the poor wig choice and the unnatural looking contacts.

So they weren't trying to make her look "more Caucasian", they were trying to find an alternate route to giver her the look of Sue without having to strip bleach and color her hair again.

 

[SuperT]

They were most definitely trying to make Alba look Caucasian in both original films, that's the reason why she looked so ridiculous - because even bleaching/giving her a blond wig and blue eye contacts, Alba is still clearly not anywhere close to being Caucasian.

They would have been better off just letting her look like herself. lol

 

[Joe Rockhead]

They were most definitely trying to make Alba look Caucasian in both original films, that's the reason why she looked so ridiculous - because even bleaching/giving her a blond wig and blue eye contacts, Alba is still clearly not anywhere close to being Caucasian.

They would have been better off just letting her look like herself. lol

Agreed. A natural look would have been much better than being so strictly beholden to what is on the page.

Again, though, it was a matter of shoehorning an actress into a role where she didn't fit mold from the comic. I don't think she made a convincing big sister to Johnny, and I think the chemistry between Jessica and Ioan wasn't there for Sue's relationship to Reed.

I'm hoping they strike the right chemistry between the 4 in this film, otherwise it's just another instance of Fox failing to adapt the property.

 

[Tony Stark]

The look in the first film was fine. The look in the second film was freaky. It's a normal thing for actors and actresses to change hair color, use colored contacts, prosthetics, etc. to look like a certain character.

To say she should have looked like herself, when you have other films where people have changed their look to fit a character seems hypocritical.

I would agree that if you're going to do that, it should be done well, which is why I don't have an excuse for the second film.

 

[Farren]

IMO what they did with Alba was creepy. The blond hair I'm fine with because lots of people dye their hair. But contacts? Really? And I strongly suspect they were putting lighter foundation on her (at the very least they were packing the highlighter and powder on her cheeks).

 

[Kelly]

They were most definitely trying to make Alba look Caucasian in both original films, that's the reason why she looked so ridiculous - because even bleaching/giving her a blond wig and blue eye contacts, Alba is still clearly not anywhere close to being Caucasian.

They would have been better off just letting her look like herself. lol

Only because her father is Mexican...her mother is as Caucasian as I am. In fact she did a DNA test on the George Lopez show (he did with with a lot of his guests) and even a surprise to her, she was 80+% European, and only about 13% Native American.

Only in the second movie did she look ridiculous, in the first movie she had at least the look of Sue Storm, which was proved by countless pic/comparisons to the comic. The look was definitely a problem in the 2nd, not all the way through, but a good portion of it. At the beginning it was scary as hell, but with her hair up, and in the pony tail, she looked very much the part of Sue. The writing of her character however, was extremely bad.

 

[SuperT]

IMO what they did with Alba was creepy. The blond hair I'm fine with because lots of people dye their hair. But contacts? Really? And I strongly suspect they were putting lighter foundation on her (at the very least they were packing the highlighter and powder on her cheeks).

Agree - the blonde wasn't the biggest issue but the blue eye contacts. Yeesh, they made her look unnatural.

 

[Taarna]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]463943[/split]

As a big time Johnny Storm fan, I must chime in.

Who's your favorite sports team? What they kept their logo, but moved into a different area of the country, would you care? Not a sports fan? Okay suppose your favorite restaurant changed ownership and had a new menu?

Part of the attachment for Marvel in my case was liking hero's or villains for who they are, and what they stood for. When you change that formula, you take away from what attracted you to the character in the first place.

Where are the African American Villains? There are next to none, as it would be viewed as political incorrect. A while back Marvel had an Arab villain in the Fantastic four in the early 1990's, and there was a huge backlash from the Arab community.

Fast forward to 2015, not only is political correctness at its peak, it seems like the media is going out of its way to force diversity. While diversity is welcomed,it should not come at the expense of someone else's heart.

Introduce new characters and stories don't
tarnish someone Else's personal favorites. And while I'm at it, its obvious the door only swings one way in terms of change. You'll never see a white guy playing the role of a famous historical or fictional minority character....and he shouldn't.

From an economics perspective, this could come back to bite Marvel. Unless of course the fan base of those who buys the DVD's and reads the comics these days is 50% women and minorities.

PS: I thought Chris Evans did the best job in the last re-boot and very much looked and acted like the character Marvel created.

 

[SuperT]

Who's your favorite sports team? What they kept their logo, but moved into a different area of the country, would you care? Not a sports fan? Okay suppose your favorite restaurant changed ownership and had a new menu?

These are terrible examples to try and use. If a sports team moves to a different state, unless they do major trades, it's still the same sports team. Same for the restaurant example - if they change the menu doesn't mean it's isn't the same restaurant, the new menu could actually be better than the original.

Either way, both of those examples make no sense.

Part of the attachment for Marvel in my case was liking hero's or villains for who they are, and what they stood for. When you change that formula, you take away from what attracted you to the character in the first place.

Changing a characters ethnicity, especially one where their race plays absolutely zero role in their characterization, is not changing who they are or what they stood for - AT ALL. Are you saying Johnny being white was the only reason he attracted you as a character. You can't be attached or connect with a Johnny Storm that may happen to be black, even though it's the exact same characterization.

Where are the African American Villains? There are next to none, as it would be viewed as political incorrect.

I don't get the point of this. There are very few minority heroes, let alone villains. It's an issue across the board! A minority villain isn't politically incorrect if they're treated like more than just a stereotype.

A while back Marvel had an Arab villain in the Fantastic four in the early 1990's, and there was a huge backlash from the Arab community.

I'd have to do more research on this since I'm not familiar with the character.

Fast forward to 2015, not only is political correctness at its peak, it seems like the media is going out of its way to force diversity. While diversity is welcomed,it should not come at the expense of someone else's heart.

Of course it's 2015 and people are going out of their way to force diversity because it's 2015 and we still don't have any. At some point, minority groups are going to push back and I can only guess it's going to get harder for large corporations further down the line to ignore it. Minority groups as a whole have tremendous buying and viewing power that could dwarf that of the majority in the very near future.

Look at things like Scandal, and most recently, Empire. That show keeps going week by week by week. Even faster than most critically acclaimed, award winning shows fronted by white casts. Wonder why? Because people want to see themselves reflected in media. We want our stories told and our lives validated as well, just like white people do.

Introduce new characters and stories don't
tarnish someone Else's personal favorites. And while I'm at it, its obvious the door only swings one way in terms of change. You'll never see a white guy playing the role of a famous historical or fictional minority character....and he shouldn't.

Of course, it's far more egregious to change a minority character into a Caucasian than it is the other way because there's already a limited amount of minority characters to play with in the first place.

From an economics perspective, this could come back to bite Marvel. Unless of course the fan base of those who buys the DVD's and reads the comics these days is 50% women and minorities.

Not everyone that goes to these movies or buys the DVD's are comic book fans so that point is irrelevant. They aren't looking for exact replica's of the comics, they're looking to be entertained by smart, well written, well acted and well directed movies.

Please read this article: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/diverse-casts-deliver-higher-ratings-777428

Meanwhile, films with casts about 30 percent diverse did best at the worldwide box office.

And that's only 30%! Imagine the success of a movie that was closer to 50% or higher.